Ok im going answer very slowly.

A marine, is a marine, doesnt matter his role as a marine, hes still a marine. Have you ever heard a marine say "oh, i was a marine, but since i decided to be a sniper, im no longer a marine"? Because by your logic, they arent marines anymore, they are a sniper and a pilot, which would be a complete insult to say they arent marines just because they dont do the same thing as a marine.

No. By my logic, they are both still marines, but marine is not their class. Their classes are sniper and pilot. They are still both marines. In the same manner that a vanguard and commando still share the trooper story line( which is all the base class does-determine story line, not class), but they are DIFFERENT CLASSES. One is a commando and one is a vanguard.

No. By my logic, they are both still marines, but marine is not their class. Their classes are sniper and pilot. They are still both marines. In the same manner that a vanguard and commando still share the trooper story line( which is all the base class does-determine story line, not class), but they are DIFFERENT CLASSES. One is a commando and one is a vanguard.

See now your backtracking because I proved you wrong, you said that once they decided if they were a sniper or pilot, that they werent a marine anymore, you didnt physically say that but you said that my vanguard is no longer a trooper hes a vanguard while trying to use marines as an example, which is the same thing as saying that if a marine decides to be a sniper, hes no longer a marine, hes a sniper.

See now your backtracking because I proved you wrong, you said that once they decided if they were a sniper or pilot, that they werent a marine anymore, you didnt physically say that but you said that my vanguard is no longer a trooper hes a vanguard while trying to use marines as an example, which is the same thing as saying that if a marine decides to be a sniper, hes no longer a marine, hes a sniper.

Do you ever see a "trooper-vanguard" or a "trooper-commando"? NO? That's because they do not exist. The CLASS is vanguard or commando, once that choice is made.

In a similar question, do you ever see a class "vanguard-assualt specialist" or even a class "assault specialist"? NO. That is because assault specialist is the spec and VANGUARD is the CLASS.

Do you ever see a "trooper-vanguard" or a "trooper-commando"? NO? That's because they do not exist. The CLASS is vanguard or commando, once that choice is made.

 

In a similar question, do you ever see a class "vanguard-assualt specialist" or even a class "assault specialist"? NO. That is because assault specialist is the spec and VANGUARD is the CLASS.

We arent using the marine example anymore? Ok

They can label my trooper whatever they want, hes still a trooper, vanguard or commando is still the TROOPER.

Of all the different pros and cons of AC swapping we could talk about, isn't this particular one the least interesting?

Just sayin'

See now your backtracking because I proved you wrong, you said that once they decided if they were a sniper or pilot, that they werent a marine anymore, you didnt physically say that but you said that my vanguard is no longer a trooper hes a vanguard while trying to use marines as an example, which is the same thing as saying that if a marine decides to be a sniper, hes no longer a marine, hes a sniper.

the only thing you have proven is that you do ont know what "fundamental" means and that you simply ignore EVERYTHING presented that doesn't support you want of a free max level class...

Also Rift does not have ACs, they have "souls" which is what they call their talent trees. They simply have 8 talent trees where a vanguard has 3. They are not ACs... you are just not smart enough to get it, you just prove with each post you make that you are a child and lack the ability to understand certain things...

Going to your "marine" analogy. Once you becomes a marine sniper you never ever change and becomes a pilot. You are a marine but once a sniper you are a sniper you do not ever get the option of dropping the years of training they put into you to go and try and be pilot. So you proved though you own statement that AC changes cannot happen.

However this will fall on deaf ears simply because your mind will never be capable of understanding anything outside what you want. You are still trying to fit the square peg in the round hole and just claiming that the round hole is actually square if you say it enough.

Actually it isn't self serving.. It is fact.. The same outcome can be accomplished by rolling a new character as opposed to swapping your class.. They just don't want to roll a new character.. That is laziness.. Case closed..

 

This is why all the attempted reasons for swapping your class are moot.. Just roll another character.. Problem solved..

lol.

You have stated your opinion. Thanks for participating. Were going to get back to the discussion now.

........And if the developers decide to acquiesce to cries for convenience, that is their call but it will cheapen this game in much the same way that going to F2P and the cartel market have.

The reason I removed the name is because I am not directing this post at the person that posted that comment.

It is important, IMO, to point this out. This is not the first time I have seen this sentiment from the con crowd.

I also note that quite a few of the regular posters in this thread were against many of the convenience features added recently in the past, and used many of the same arguments.

There are a few folks here on the con side that have a history of meaningful and reasonable posts, both for and against...I think it's pretty easy to pick those folks out.

Naturally it's very difficult to weed out the "we should have it period" or "no reason to have it period" type of folks...they seem to want to stifle the discussion. I am suspicious of the motives.

In fact, I would pose that the one proposal that upsets both the hardcore pro and con sides is probably the one that should be implemented. Seems to me the demotion to level 10 suggestion has upset just the right people.

That one may be the winner.

The reason I removed the name is because I am not directing this post at the person that posted that comment.

 

It is important, IMO, to point this out. This is not the first time I have seen this sentiment from the con crowd.

 

I also note that quite a few of the regular posters in this thread were against many of the convenience features added recently in the past, and used many of the same arguments.

 

There are a few folks here on the con side that have a history of meaningful and reasonable posts, both for and against...I think it's pretty easy to pick those folks out.

 

Naturally it's very difficult to weed out the "we should have it period" or "no reason to have it period" type of folks...they seem to want to stifle the discussion. I am suspicious of the motives.

 

In fact, I would pose that the one proposal that upsets both the hardcore pro and con sides is probably the one that should be implemented. Seems to me the demotion to level 10 suggestion has upset just the right people.

 

That one may be the winner.

Its also important to point out that we cant just rule this feature out because some people dont like it. There will always be a section of people who are for and against features being added.

The reason I removed the name is because I am not directing this post at the person that posted that comment.

 

It is important, IMO, to point this out. This is not the first time I have seen this sentiment from the con crowd.

 

I also note that quite a few of the regular posters in this thread were against many of the convenience features added recently in the past, and used many of the same arguments.

 

There are a few folks here on the con side that have a history of meaningful and reasonable posts, both for and against...I think it's pretty easy to pick those folks out.

 

Naturally it's very difficult to weed out the "we should have it period" or "no reason to have it period" type of folks...they seem to want to stifle the discussion. I am suspicious of the motives.

 

In fact, I would pose that the one proposal that upsets both the hardcore pro and con sides is probably the one that should be implemented. Seems to me the demotion to level 10 suggestion has upset just the right people.

 

That one may be the winner.

sorry but nothing in the cartel market allows you to skip the leveling process. Changing ACs is nothing more then pay to win its granting someone a completely new class, plain and simple. It is no different then offering kell dragon gear on the cartel market.

 

Going to your "marine" analogy. Once you becomes a marine sniper you never ever change and becomes a pilot. You are a marine but once a sniper you are a sniper you do not ever get the option of dropping the years of training they put into you to go and try and be pilot.

This is false, at least with respect to the US Military. People change their MOS in the military all the time, and are encouraged to do so. It is called cross training, and you are allowed to change your MOS if you qualify in a new one. You can even choose to keep your original MOS as your primary and adopt a secondary, or simply replace the primary with the secondary.

No one is bound to their MOS if there is a school available and a slot open. You can literally be anything and do anything you want in the US Military as long as you show competence and can get an open slot.

Perhaps you were speaking of another countries military service.

sorry but nothing int he cartel market allows you to skip the leveling process. Changing ACs is nothing more then pay to win its granting someone a completely new class, plain and simple. It is no different then offering kell dragon gear on the cartel market.

Why must you guys keep stretching this? We ask for AC changing not class changing, then you compare it to asking for free gear...

This is false, at least with respect to the US Military. People change their MOS in the military all the time, and are encouraged to do so. It is called cross training, and you are allowed to change your MOS if you qualify in a new one. You can even choose to keep your original MOS as your primary and adopt a secondary, or simply replace the primary with the secondary.

 

No one is bound to their MOS if there is a school available and a slot open. You can literally be anything and do anything you want in the US Military as long as you show competence and can get an open slot.

 

Perhaps you were speaking of another countries military service.

Boom.

sorry but nothing int he cartel market allows you to skip the leveling process. Changing ACs is nothing more then pay to win its granting someone a completely new class, plain and simple. It is no different then offering kell dragon gear on the cartel market.

You don't have to say your sorry. I'm not sorry. Your entitled to express your opinion.

But it is only that...your opinion. As is mine I might add, and neither of us has an opinion that is more or less important than the other.

It is important for me to point out that, despite some comments from the pro side there are reputable reasons NOT to add this to the game and I think that any discussion about adding it should address those concerns if possible.

This is false, at least with respect to the US Military. People change their MOS in the military all the time, and are encouraged to do so. It is called cross training, and you are allowed to change your MOS if you qualify in a new one. You can even choose to keep your original MOS as your primary and adopt a secondary, or simply replace the primary with the secondary.

 

No one is bound to their MOS if there is a school available and a slot open. You can literally be anything and do anything you want in the US Military as long as you show competence and can get an open slot.

 

Perhaps you were speaking of another countries military service.

wow... you really do not get it... you do not "cross train" in that diverse of jobs.

but whatever dude if you want to keep your ignorant argument alive of wanting a free max level class for nothing then go for it... you are far too stupid to argue with you have proved it over and over.

Why must you guys keep stretching this? We ask for AC changing not class changing, then you compare it to asking for free gear...

But to many, AC changing IS class changing. If you understand both sides you could understand why it bothers people. I'm on board for a second change halfway through leveling. But once you reach the max level you are not allowed to changed anymore.

wow... you really do not get it... you do not "cross train" in that diverse of jobs.

 

but whatever dude if you want to keep your ignorant argument alive of wanting a free max level class for nothing then go for it... you are far too stupid to argue with you have proved it over and over.

This guy...LordArtemis has been playing both sides, he has not once stated that he wants a fee max level of any class, your simply making stuff up in your head because you ran out of arguments, trying to make us look bad.

This guy...LordArtemis has been playing both sides, he has not once stated that he wants a fee max level of any class, your simply making stuff up in your head because you ran out of arguments, trying to make us look bad.

AC change is getting a free new class at max level.... why can you not understand that what is wrong with you????

A vanguard is a different class then a commando even the devs have said that. They are separate classes... wanting to change that means you want a new class at max level that is the facts.

wow... you really do not get it... you do not "cross train" in that diverse of jobs.

 

but whatever dude if you want to keep your ignorant argument alive of wanting a free max level class for nothing then go for it... you are far too stupid to argue with you have proved it over and over.

I dont get it lol.

Wow.

I spent 6 years in the Army, E-6, 11B/32F, C CO, 3/21 INF, Schofield Bks, HI, 25th ID.

I think it might be possible that I know exactly what I am talking about in this respect.

But to many, AC changing IS class changing. If you understand both sides you could understand why it bothers people. I'm on board for a second change halfway through leveling. But once you reach the max level you are not allowed to changed anymore.

Those who look at it as class changing SEEM to have a very narrow vision of this, they are so bounded by the ways of other MMOs thinking that if one game doesnt allow it, no other game should. I have used other games as examples, yes ill admit it, but it doesnt change the fact that whatever base class you pick, then whichever AC you pick after level 10, you will ALWAYS be that base class, there is no possible way that can change, however AC changing can be possible without breaking that invisible rule of no class changing that most mmos follow.

AC change is getting a free new class at max level.... why can you not understand that what is wrong with you????

 

 

A vanguard is a different class then a commando even the devs have said that. They are separate classes... wanting to change that means you want a new class at max level that is the facts.

You MIGHT be able to make that contention for a late game AC change, but the early game AC change proposal causes that argument to become moot.

The person does, in fact, have to earn that new class since they are forced to play it from level 10.

Those who look at it as class changing SEEM to have a very narrow vision of this, they are so bounded by the ways of other MMOs thinking that if one game doesnt allow it, no other game should. I have used other games as examples, yes ill admit it, but it doesnt change the fact that whatever base class you pick, then whichever AC you pick after level 10, you will ALWAYS be that base class, there is no possible way that can change, however AC changing can be possible without breaking that invisible rule of no class changing that most mmos follow.

It's not a narrow view, per say, it's just the view that makes the most sense. I rolled my class knowing I would only be able to do one thing with it. I rolled an alt to play the role I couldn't on my main. Now that you want an AC change everyone can play pretty much every role. Except for one class, who can only tank/dps. If I had known this, I would have rolled another class that allowed me to do everything because I like accessibility. If you want your AC changes, I want an entire class change to something else.

It's not a narrow view, per say, it's just the view that makes the most sense. I rolled my class knowing I would only be able to do one thing with it. I rolled an alt to play the role I couldn't on my main. Now that you want an AC change everyone can play pretty much every role. Except for one class, who can only tank/dps. If I had known this I would have rolled another class that allowed me to do everything because I like accessibility. If you want your AC changes, I want an entire class change to something else.

This is one of the cons I pointed out in my other post, if they allowed this feature, the people who didnt wait for it would be upset that they already rerolled.

But the good news is, you dont have to pay money to switch now

Those who look at it as class changing SEEM to have a very narrow vision of this, they are so bounded by the ways of other MMOs thinking that if one game doesnt allow it, no other game should. I have used other games as examples, yes ill admit it, but it doesnt change the fact that whatever base class you pick, then whichever AC you pick after level 10, you will ALWAYS be that base class, there is no possible way that can change, however AC changing can be possible without breaking that invisible rule of no class changing that most mmos follow.

so the devs have a "narrow" view? you still cannot dispute the devs classify them as different classes.

This is one of the cons I pointed out in my other post, if they allowed this feature, the people who didnt wait for it would be upset that they already rerolled.

Exactly, my defense of this entire thing revolves around this. I rolled a Jedi Knight because I liked Single Lightsaber combat. Of course I can't heal as a Jedi Knight. My second favorite was the Jedi Consular because it uses a double bladed lightsaber. It can also in it's other class play a healer. That allows me to play 3 roles, and I like having that option. Now that I'm a JK I have no way to ever play a healer with my class, while everyone else get's to play one.

Now I sit here wondering should I re roll again? Just in case they add this feature and I feel left out? Doesn't seem fair to someone like me.

I have an assassin on imp side (I never play imp anymore, if they allowed me to faction change my problem would be solved.) they stated however they have no plans for ever doing this. I feel completely left out if this implemented.