(Still in testing and remains a theory until proven efficient)

 

For the longest time Vanguard tanks have been rendered "useless" in pvp due to our tanking tree specializing in shield which is all but obsolete in PvP. However, what most people don't know is we have been doing it all wrong.

 

Vanguards Tanks specialize in 3 things:

 

1. Overall Flat damage mitigation

 

2. Highest HP's and Armor rating in the game

 

3. Highest Damage output for Tank class in PvP

 

 

 

All the talents we use for flat mitigation and armor are within the first 2-3 tears of talents. However, with a 41 point talent tree, what has been overlooked for the longest time is how "tanky" (real tanky) the Tactics tree is, and the high Yellow damage it has within melee range: Ladies and Gentlemen, I introduce to you, the "Soulguard" build:

 

13/28/0

 

http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/skills/vanguard#1ei28-1d7fc6ee92-0

 

 

 

This build focuses on moderatley high damage output, while having the total MAXIMUM increase in flat/aoe damage mitigation: Some numbers

 

6 second CD on interrupt

 

76% Armor increase

 

20% Accuracy debuff for ranged and melee attacks

 

7% (+5%) while com-busted overall damage mitigation (cannot reach the additional 2% but worth it)

 

30% Flat AOE damage mitigation, which is increased to %60 percent if stunned or immobilized

 

25% Flat damage mitigation from Reactive shield

 

= Meaning a consistent 62%-97% reduction in Force leap/smash and infinite potential in flat damage mitigation

 

All damage in the Tactics Tree does "NOT" require the High energy cell to be active, meaning Gut, all elemental attacks, and High impact bolt will be utilized to its FULL potential while tanking, allowing for effective close combat damage.

 

 

 

This build not only grabs all the ARMOR bonuses, ENDURANCE bonuses, and FLAT DMG MITIGATION bonuses from every tree, but is still grabbing EVERY vital tanking talent which does not use shield, and almost an entire DPS tree with full capability, and capitalizes on every strong point of the vanguard class while using the tanking cell (stance)

 

Please review and give detailed feedback, still debating gear types and set up for maximum capability

Edited December 18, 2012 by NickEwok

As a Vanguard since launch i can not aggree with you on this point. While clever and interesting.

 

If you want to tank, spec tank, there is no secret formula. In my humble opinion of course.

 

"If somethings worth doing, its worth doing right"

-H. Thompson

 

Who cares bout dps as a tank, if you do then you aint a tank.

I'm not sure you can call it a tank if it doesn't have guard. Or are you switching between ion and high energy cell during the games or something? Edited December 18, 2012 by sanchito

I should add, there is no right way to play any class, so if this build works for your style then thats awesome.

 

As a tank i believe the only realistic dmg medals are the 75kdmg and the 2.5k hit (kinda rare unless you have gear or a lightsaber) Sure the 300k dmg medal is possible, but in my experience it takes healers, a long game and lots of AoEs.

This build is meant to perform in PvP only, and be effective in 1.6 as a result of increase sent/mars jug/guardian smashes.

 

The Vanguard tank is, NOT viable in PvP because almost the entire tree is based on shield/abosrb. Also you DO use your tank cell which enables you to have guard. Read above.

 

The DPS capabilty overall will add to your TTK (Time to Kill) as you will not only have ALL the benefits of the tank class/stance, but be able to actually do damage to your target. In the sense of doing damage as a tank, I agree it should not be concerned with, but with this build you will literally have FULL capability of both, without having to sacrifice, in short a High mitigation tank who can also do high damage has been unheard of until now, which if you remember is why shadows have been nerfed time and time again.

Edited December 18, 2012 by NickEwok

I am doing more than fair with my tank through the magical joy of augments. Both in terms of damage and survival.

Also Ion will and should be used through this specs entirety.

What is it with Vanguards always naming their specs?

 

Soulguard sounds like an 80's deodorant, almost awesome.

Just gives it exclusivity is all.

Also you DO use your tank cell which enables you to have guard. Read above.

 

I have never played a Vanguard, but why did you spec "Battlefield Training" if you're going to be in Ion Cell the whole time? You could go with "Tactical Tools" or "Containment Tactics" instead.

Sorry i missread, your in tanking stance. The 2 points in battlefield training seem kinda wasted then, should they be in Tactical tools maybe?

 

Besides that i kinda understand what you try to do, although i'm not sure it's worth the trade offs.

I run a 10/31/0 in Ion cylinder and with a Super Commando Offhand, for fun on my PT... while I have put up some impressive numbers from time to time in regulars... 600k damage with 200K protection (topped both stats on both teams) was one of my flashier games. Still... probably not a good tank spec for competitive PvP. (Rated)

 

And any PT hybrid spec is hardly going to be tanky enough for rated and on top of that... no hybrid will be able to put up the damage that other hybrids can dish out while remaining "tanky" enough. Full tank.... yes.... the PT can take a lot of damage but it's missing the utility that the other tank classes have... as a hybrid... a PT simply is not able to put out the same kind of damage as the other classes while still being tanky enough to mitigate some real damage.

 

The others can actually be tanks with some substantial DPS... a PT hybrid is either a tank still with horrible damage or it's a DPS with a guard.

 

Oh.. and the build... yeah... looks good on paper when you spell it out for us. But you're sacrificing a large amount of DPS for very little tankyness.

 

I'll stick with my 10/31/0 and straight Pyro thanks...

Edited December 18, 2012 by UGLYMRJ

I have never played a Vanguard, but why did you spec "Battlefield Training" if you're going to be in Ion Cell the whole time? You could go with "Tactical Tools" or "Containment Tactics" instead.

 

^ this. Also, what gear are you using? I'm assuming DPS (Combat Tech, most likely).

This low damage dealing build with massive ammo/overheating issues.

 

No passive way to recover ammo.

As others have mentioned Battlefield Training is pointless if you are going to always run Ion Cell.

Soldier's Endurance is not worth 3 points for 3% endurance in my opinion.

You did not take Havoc Training, so do not have the critical bonus damage to any of your attacks.

 

You'll have a tough time killing anybody with that spec, and still won't be able to bring the survivability or utility the other two tank ACs offer.

 

Also vanguard is not the highest damage dealing tank AC, that belongs to the assassin.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Evuo

You are correct, I had revamped the build for decreased cooldown on harpoon. Thank you. Also this is not the final version of the spec, tweaks can be made which is why I posted the build on the forums. It is just an idea I will be testing. No matter what we build each tank class has its own specialization, this is merely attempting to take a lower rated, non-pvp viable, underplayed class and prove some of its potential. Also Vanguards were capable of high damage until they were nerfed, Ironfist was a good example. Edited December 18, 2012 by NickEwok

Does not make much sense to me. You are giving up lots of dps by not finishing out fire pulse...but instead taking 3% health and smoke grenade?

 

Also you will have trouble maintaining dps without high energy cell running. Can't attack with no cells.

The spec is for fun and it actually is kinda funny as long as you focus on being a guardbot.

I have not managed 600k dmg with it but heres an example of 10/31/0 in action,

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOzEFL-1bZk

 

Benny Hill version

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0ezoGOxpX9o

 

Never tried rated with this spec though, i would assume jug tanks still rule.

Also Vanguards were capable of high damage until they were nerfed, Ironfist was a good example.

 

Ironfist is a bad example, that was a tank spec not a damage dealing spec which arguably would not do more damage than 31 points in shield specialist.

It did if played correctly. Also i fixed the talent for the decrease cooldown on harpoon. 3% plus endurance is used because the spec is capable of moderate damage, but is not focused around it, which also explains the smoke grenade. If this build were centered around only damage, it would be just another DPS build with no intention of having any tank functionality in which this case Assault/pryo still has top damage in the class.

Ironfist is a bad example, that was a tank spec not a damage dealing spec which arguably would not do more damage than 31 points in shield specialist.

 

There is nothing tanky in regards to PvP in terms of the "shield talents" in the ironfist build which was viable,only in terms of white damage at best. This spec takes away those shielding talents and puts a bit more effort into the dps function while not revolving around it.

 

Also if you want some sort of passive regen, you can retalent the smoke grenade into the shield cylinder though most attacks are not shielded in PvP. Not sure how effective that would be but I altered the build because you are right about the ammo regen. Thank you for your input. Will need to test to prove efficiency.

Edited December 18, 2012 by NickEwok

There is nothing tanky in regards to PvP in terms of the "shield talents" in the ironfist build which was viable,only in terms of white damage at best. This spec takes away those shielding talents and puts a bit more effort into the dps function while not revolving around it.

 

A build that relies on using the tank tree and the tank cylinder is going to be called a tank build. You're build makes the player overheat quickly with low damage dealing potential that due to its lack of surge talents, ammo regeneration, and lack of synergy between cell and skill points.

 

This build focuses on Extremely high damage output, while having the total MAXIMUM increase in flat/aoe damage mitigation

 

No, this build would have a tough time competeing with 31 points in shield specialist for damage output and thats saying something.

 

Honestly, you'd be better off just running 31 pt AP and tossing on Ion cylinder if you feel like using guard. Although, I wouldn't even do that outside of a defending round on voidstar where your team is stacked with healers and tanks.

Edited December 18, 2012 by Evuo

Evuo, I revamped the build to 13/28/0 adding passive regen and 1 point in havoc training. This thread is to try somthing new, instead of being condecending maybe help come up with solutions instead. In the shield specialist tree outside of ion shield, the rest is merely utility/shield/and regen management. Having storm as a gap closer to get up close for a tank class that is lackluster "up close" due to no defensive cooldowns is a bad idea. Outside of some roots and more shielding abilities obselete in PVP, I disagree with you completely about a 31pt tank. Edited December 18, 2012 by NickEwok

I have a solution.

 

10/31/0

 

Sorry... but the DPS you're sacrificing for nearly no tankyness just doesn't add up.

I have a solution.

 

10/31/0

 

Sorry... but the DPS you're sacrificing for nearly no tankyness just doesn't add up.

 

 

A crit on ion pulse will not be missed, maybe on stockstrike, but this build will use a full tank set. As stated, not a dps build, but a tank build with a dps spin. Ill take a hit on crit damage for an 18 second 20% accuracy debuff that affects all targets and ammo regen.

Evuo, I revamped the build to 13/28/0 adding passive regen and 1 point in havoc training. This thread is to try somthing new, instead of being condecending maybe help come up with solutions instead.

 

If you make questionable choices expect to be critcized. It's been said by myself and others if you really want to guard with AP skills, then just run a variation of 31 pt AP and toss on Ion cell/gas cylinder.