"State of the Game" completely blew us off... anyone surprised?

It only listed 3 topics, could you honestly expect something this low of priority to be mentioned?

Do I expect something put on hiatus before launch, which has gone a year without comment, to be mentioned?

 

Yes, especially since the 'unresolved questions' they tackled were "some people left the team", "it's not our fault we didnt listen to the Test Server reports, bugs just happen" and "just a reminder, AP players... wait and see what happens." When I think 'unresolved questions', I expect something more than repeating answers they've already given.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Palar

He's starting with three but will tackle more. I draw some hope from "I won’t get to everything all at once, but I’ll try to hit some of the big ones," and "I will try to answer the biggest, unresolved questions in these “State-of-the-Game” posts," although "talk about these topics as openly as I can." is in this case horribly ill-omened as far as actually hearing anything about SGRs goes.

 

But it might just be that the actual Executive Producer is getting involved on this level particularly because he can answer issues that the Dev Team and Community Team have escalated but are not permitted to discuss.

 

I have of course added my own reply asking about SGRs. We'll see,

Edited November 7, 2012 by Uluain

<delurks>

 

Under advisement of da Doupster, I've taken a break from the forums. Not due to my last post, but because I was feeling too riled up and having the same circular argument with too many folks. One part of the recent conversation caught my attention, about the "rights of gamers."

 

I wanted to leave this here. The following quote is by David Gaider, one of the former lead writers of Bioware, and he worked on the Dragon Age series. He also wrote HK-47, Jolee Bindo and Carth Onasi for Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

 

 

The romances in the game are not for "the straight male gamer". They're for everyone. We have a lot of fans, many of whom are neither straight nor male, and they deserve no less attention. We have good numbers, after all, on the number of people who actually used similar sorts of content in DAO and thus don't need to resort to anecdotal evidence to support our idea that their numbers are not insignificant... and that's ignoring the idea that they don't have just as much right to play the kind of game they wish as anyone else.

 

The "rights" of anyone with regards to a game are murky at best, but anyone who takes that stance must apply it equally to both the minority as well as the majority. The majority has no inherent "right" to get more options than anyone else.

 

I'll be around lurking, but I probably won't be posting much until more new information comes up that can go into the FAQ.

 

Take care guys! I'll be on my (now) lvl 48 sniper, finishing up the story.

Edited November 7, 2012 by natashina

If we can make good inferrences from the little glimpses we have had since March, and what we know about development plans in general and connect all the dots, it does look as though this will come this year, with new story content and Makeb, in the next major content patch after 1.5. That is if Hall was in fact confirming Gabe's mention as accurate, and if Daniel Erickson's statements from the Guild Summit still apply.

 

That is a lot of "if"s and "and"s, and there are still matters unknown regarding this content, so of course I do hope we get a comprehensive answer sooner rather than later. Jeff Hickman seems to want to discuss a lot of issues frankly. He's a big deal, so that is a good sign.

Well, we have been given leave to pester the Executive Producer about SGRA's, so we might as well. Lord knows they won't let Mr. Hood answer questions about story content tomorrow.

Well, we have been given leave to pester the Executive Producer about SGRA's, so we might as well. Lord knows they won't let Mr. Hood answer questions about story content tomorrow.

 

We have?, this is the first I've heard of it, guess we better get to it then.

We have?, this is the first I've heard of it, guess we better get to it then.

 

I say "given leave" but we haven't been specifically told not to and the community has been invited to ask in questions about content and the state of the game.

We have?, this is the first I've heard of it, guess we better get to it then.

 

I believe the term is UNODIR. It stands for UNless Otherwise DIRected.

I say "given leave" but we haven't been specifically told not to and the community has been invited to ask in questions about content and the state of the game.

 

Specifically, he says

 

I’m hoping to use these postings as a direct way to address some of the top unresolved issues that most concern our community. I won’t get to everything all at once, but I’ll try to hit some of the big ones, and talk about these topics as openly as I can.

 

Given that our main concern here is that we have questions that have gone unanswered since pre-launch, and that no one else seems to have clearance to address it, I'd say this is indeed an invitation to ask.

 

The thread to address questions or comments to the State of the Game blog can be found here.

Edited November 7, 2012 by Uluain

It seems silly to go to extreme legnths here to see a particular cutscene. If you want a different set of cutscenes then reroll a toon of the approprate class/race/gender to see the clip you want. If you want to see Mako and Torian both then roll a male Powertech and a female Merc.

It seems silly to go to extreme legnths here to see a particular cutscene. If you want a different set of cutscenes then reroll a toon of the approprate class/race/gender to see the clip you want. If you want to see Mako and Torian both then roll a male Powertech and a female Merc.

 

Remember that the romances will have new dialogue, as they aren't just doing a pronoun switch. Also, you're dismissing people who are gay or lesbian, who want to see themselves represented in the game. It's not entirely about just that one Fade to Black scene - it's about Bioware keeping up their own standards (they haven't, in case you haven't noticed) and experiencing a story.

 

It only seems silly to you because you don't understand. Likewise a lot of my co-workers can't understand why I enjoy raiding or why video games themselves are such big business. Just because one person doesn't understand something, doesn't invalidate another's position.

 

However, you are somewhat right - it IS silly to go to such lengths to get information on this content. The information should be readily available, Bioware should be more forthcoming and the content should be in the game already.

Woah, forgot about this thread. A few points:

 

What we're doing is asking for more content as well, nothing else. While it may not be game-breaking or game-making, I doubt it will hurt to have it either. And really, if content is low-priority, then what is? In my opinion, it's bug fixes that need addressing first and foremost. Anything beyond that really falls under the same category.

 

But anyway... Nobody's asking that everything else be tossed away or stopped. All we're asking for is some storyline for people that prefer SGR. I'm not playing TOR. I don't want to play it to begin with, not until I have something to tickle my fancy. Why? Because if I get everything to lvl 50 and see all the storylines, then SGR gets implemented... well, I'll be replaying the same thing and skipping everything except the new content? It might be 5%, it might be less, but it's still part of the story... and experiencing it out of context and out of order kind of breaks the entertainment value... at least for me.

Cool, I hope it's all that you want it to be, whenever it goes live.

 

SGR coming with a game expansion rather than a game patch kind of makes it worse. We have to pay for the right to be of a different sexuality now?

Oh come on, the game doesn't define your character's sexuality. Just because there aren't any gay companions doesn't mean your character can't be whatever you want him/her to be. You can play it completely asexually if you choose.

 

Here we go again with majority versus minority. You're saying that I shouldn't go yelling discrimination when you keep going with "We have more of X than Y, so X needs to get more content than Y." That, in and of itself, is discrimination.

No, that's prudence, which is required in any business decision. It would be silly to devote a disproportionate amount of resources for something that appeals to so few given the current state of the game.

 

I know you can't make all players happy. It's simply impossible to get a group of say... one million people together and make sure that everyone is happy while being put in the same situation, even if the situation is to give them each a million dollars a piece. There will always be someone that will find something to complain about. What they do at that point is try their best to make the highest percentage of people playing the game happy. And that, sometimes, includes making changes that affect minorities.

I don't disagree.

 

We're expecting to be given the same thing that any hetero-sexual person gets out of their storyline. Nothing more, nothing less.

And in the games I mentioned you are. I think it was a mistake for Bioware to leave this out of launch, but what's done is done and there are other things that desperately need attending now.

 

Priorities again... really? The promise was.... "You can expect SGR sometime this year." Well, guess what, this year is almost over... and we're not getting even a hint of it being near completion. I might be wrong here, it could come next patch, but honestly... not even a peep when PvE content gets previews practically two patches ahead?

And why do you think that is?

 

Endgame being shallow will change... when? How much endgame is "enough"? 10 raids? 50? 500? And yes, you're pretty much saying... "Put SGRs in after you've sated all of us with PvE." But... let's say a year from now, there comes an expansion, raising the level cap, then you'd need new endgame content, more raids, etc, etc... so when does the cycle stop? Does it ever? If SGRs are being postponed until "endgame is better", it'll likely end up being implemented when there's no-one left to appreciate it.

I think once they get the new WZ out, cross server queues (for pvp and pve) running, server transfers, begin season 1 for rateds with i-level 63 armor, and expand the character stories beyond act 3, the game will be on solid enough ground to introduce SGRs.

 

Those changes alone will reinvigorate endgame play and liven up low pop servers. So, once the heavy lifting is out of the way there will be plenty of time for fluff content.

 

To recap:

You keep throwing the same argument out over and over and over again while trying to dress it with different words. From what I understood of your post, it comes down to "Raids and WZs important, SGR - not because there's more PvP-ers and PvE-ers than people with different sexuality. Give the majority more content." I'd honestly recommend looking up the meaning of discrimination before posting.

The same argument stands because no one has really refuted it. As I said before, I'm not against SGRs. But the game needs a lot more than fluff, and that's all the romances are in this game, hetero or otherwise.

The same argument stands because no one has really refuted it. As I said before, I'm not against SGRs. But the game needs a lot more than fluff, and that's all the romances are in this game, hetero or otherwise.

 

If expecting more story in an MMO they hyped as being story-driven is "fluff", then bring on the fluff. Whether it be story, mini-games to have something to do at max-level beyond raiding, better appearance customisation...

 

"We're bored of doing FPs and Ops... but we want more of the same! Why aren't more people queueing for the things we just said we hate?" Level 50 is nothing but staring down a dark one-lane tunnel, and you'd prefer they make the tunnel even longer? We need some width.

Edited November 8, 2012 by Palar

The same argument stands because no one has really refuted it. As I said before, I'm not against SGRs. But the game needs a lot more than fluff, and that's all the romances are in this game, hetero or otherwise.

 

Well, unlike you, I won't claim to know what the game needs. But they've been adding "non-fluff" content since lunch. And, according to doomsayers and the like, game's sinking and stuff, so apparentely "non-fluff" content isn't working. Perhaps "fluff" content, like romances and other things, will bring more life to the game.

 

You keep saying you're not against SGRs, but you keep arguing against its inclusion, or favoring some very vague and undetermined delayed. Sorry, but you're kinda pushing what I can believe.

The design team has said the focus is on frequent group content (read warzones, flashpoints and operations) and infrequent but much larger story content updates. We have seen nothing but group content added all this first year. The soonest story content can come at this point is December. I don't think that is too soon, or at all unfair to the schedule of development for group and endgame content. People are asking for re-play value. New story possibilities provide that.

The design team has said the focus is on frequent group content (read warzones, flashpoints and operations) and infrequent but much larger story content updates. We have seen nothing but group content added all this first year. The soonest story content can come at this point is December. I don't think that is too soon, or at all unfair to the schedule of development for group and endgame content. People are asking for re-play value. New story possibilities provide that.

 

I'll certainly agree with you on that. Here's how I understand the whole delay.... given a coder and a writer of equal skill, writing code is much easier than writing story. You know what needs to happen and you have a relatively good base idea on how it can happen. While some things need reworking every now and then, it's pretty much a straight path. A story is much more complicated as it requires a lot more imagination. I can understand that, but... I haven't seen a whole lot of story content being added to the game, which makes me think that either they fired all their writers once the game was out (Overall, a pretty bad idea, considering it being a story-driven game) or they have one too many things said writers are working on rather than focusing on single projects to get them out of the way.

 

Players will always want more, so prioritizing tasks for the writers in an attempt to get content out in a timely fashion should really be done, because honestly, I don't see why there would be a hold-up otherwise.

 

Disclaimer: I know there's a whole lot of ifs and maybes in this post. It is pretty much me letting my train of thought go. Practically nothing in this post is and can be substantiated by evidence I am able to provide.

I'll certainly agree with you on that. Here's how I understand the whole delay.... given a coder and a writer of equal skill, writing code is much easier than writing story. You know what needs to happen and you have a relatively good base idea on how it can happen. While some things need reworking every now and then, it's pretty much a straight path. A story is much more complicated as it requires a lot more imagination. I can understand that, but... I haven't seen a whole lot of story content being added to the game, which makes me think that either they fired all their writers once the game was out (Overall, a pretty bad idea, considering it being a story-driven game) or they have one too many things said writers are working on rather than focusing on single projects to get them out of the way.

 

Players will always want more, so prioritizing tasks for the writers in an attempt to get content out in a timely fashion should really be done, because honestly, I don't see why there would be a hold-up otherwise.

 

Disclaimer: I know there's a whole lot of ifs and maybes in this post. It is pretty much me letting my train of thought go. Practically nothing in this post is and can be substantiated by evidence I am able to provide.

 

As far as I know, most of the writers are still on-board. A couple have left to pursue other things, including the Agent story author. That's a big loss, actually. IMO, the Agent story is the best in the game.

We were told in March that writers on this game are given a very long lead time. This was said specifically in the context of same-gender romance, but it indicated to me that writers had their assignments and were being given the time to do the quality of work the studio wanted.

 

I think that goes for story content in general, and that is why the story update is coming in a lump at the end of the year, if we are right about what we have put together concerning Makeb. This also matches the development plan of frequent group content interspersed with infrequent but substantial story content.

 

Gabe didn't doubt this was in the works. He admitted he was not personally involved and fuzzy on specifics, but he did know that the content was in development and reasonably certain that it would be placed on the schedule to implement within a reasonable amount of time.

 

It would be nice to have this clarified, of course. But connecting the dots of what we have heard, this is what my best guess is.

Hmm. That last post made me think of something.

 

I think SGRAs are coming with Makeb and maybe the reason why we haven't been told anymore isn't because there is a gag order on SGRA information, per se, but on story content.

 

Back when we were promised the SGRA content this year it was probably a nod that they were in fact working on it.

 

Chances are Bioware has just made a blanket statement of 'never talk about story content EVER unless specifically allowed to do so'. That way no one accidentally reveals some big story spoiler. Even little story details can lead fans to piece things together to big reveals. When Gabe said that SGRAs are coming with Makeb, he probably forgot that they are technically story content. They probably won't come out and say that is what happened, because if they give on any story content then they might end up having players constantly asking for it.

 

So I am going to assume they will be with Makeb, because that is the information we have and it makes the most sense because of the story content dump. I'm also going to assume that the lack of information coming to us isn't because they are trying to hide it, or are on the fence about it, or anything like that, but that there is a gag order on discussion of ANY story details, no matter what they might be.

Edited November 8, 2012 by MoobooMagoo

That is certainly possible. We will have a better indication when we see what Q&A issues Hall Hood replies to. I do think it is a trifle severe, however, if such an order prohibits even addressing whether previous statements about this content still apply. That was one thing when so much was uncertain due to changes in the studio and with the direction of the game, but it is rather another now that those eager to shut down discussion of this content have grabbed onto the absence of recent statements as evidence that this content has been back-burnered or abandoned.

That is certainly possible. We will have a better indication when we see what Q&A issues Hall Hood replies to. I do think it is a trifle severe, however, if such an order prohibits even addressing whether previous statements about this content still apply. That was one thing when so much was uncertain due to changes in the studio and with the direction of the game, but it is rather another now that those eager to shut down discussion of this content have grabbed onto the absence of recent statements as evidence that this content has been back-burnered or abandoned.

 

I agree that it's possible. Let's just see what happens with Makeb and go from there.

Hmm. That last post made me think of something.

 

I think SGRAs are coming with Makeb and maybe the reason why we haven't been told anymore isn't because there is a gag order on SGRA information, per se, but on story content.

 

I think you may be right. I was talking to the IA writer about OGR romance stuff and I asked whether there was any chance that Watcher 2's romance would ever continue and he just said he's not allowed to talk about anything story related for the future. He's not even employed there anymore but obviously he's got some kind of signed agreement that he can't say a peep about anything.

Here's hoping that we will still see at least some same-gender relationships this side of 2013. This is actually the main reason that I've not made more characters, as I wish the new ones to be able to explore their sexuality in greater depth than my first lot.