Dye packs cost, what, 220 CC. AC change will cost many 100s of CCs.

Maybe they will make it like the dye packs, in that you get a random AC change. You just have to hope it's the one you're looking for.

To explain this a bit further, at least from my perspective, a few ACs are known to have weaknesses due to bad design at cap, or at least former cap around level 50. A few of them fundamentally change how they play at or around that level.

 

At around the 30 to 40 rangish the way the class will act at cap is not apparent.

 

then you suck it up an re-roll, you do not complain and demand something new be handed to you. Wanting an AC change is no different then them handing out free level 55s. They will kill their subscription base doing it.

then you suck it up an re-roll, you do not complain and demand something new be handed to you. Wanting an AC change is no different then them handing out free level 55s. They will kill their subscription base doing it.

Oh, man, I think a chunk of the sky just hit me.

 

Please, more hyperbole.

That is quite different than an AC change. . .

You can already level as a DPS and swap to Tank or Heals, if you play a class with those skill trees. I run dailies on my Sorc as a DPS, but regularly heal in OPs and FPs and WZs.

 

AC class change would be me becoming an Assassin. I am 100% against being able to do this "on-the-fly" and whenever you want to. But, people have made good points -- you can invest a lot of time, money and energy into your characters, only to realize you do not enjoy the playstyle at all. Being able to swap once (maybe twice, to go back) -- allows you to correct a "mistake" made early on when you probably didn't understand each class.

 

One thing, semi-related, that they should add. Only allow people to "need" on gear if the stats are used for your current AC/Spec. Healers don't need accuracy. DPS don't need defense. Etc. It would be slightly harder to implement in SWTOR, because of the varied stats that can be "viable" for different classes -- but, this has worked beautifully in other games.

 

A good reasonable post IMO. I agree that I have concerns about trivial "AC on the fly" options proposed. If it's limited and expensive it becomes more palatable for me, but I'm still leaning toward no allowing it...at least for now though I am willing to keep discussing it.

then you suck it up an re-roll, you do not complain and demand something new be handed to you. Wanting an AC change is no different then them handing out free level 55s. They will kill their subscription base doing it.

 

I disagree.

then you suck it up an re-roll, you do not complain and demand something new be handed to you. Wanting an AC change is no different then them handing out free level 55s. They will kill their subscription base doing it.

The biggest advantage of rerolling (from my perspective anyway) is that you have more toons that can do crafting missions.

 

I have a level 12 Powertech that I abandoned (I rerolled a Merc instead) who has been sitting on the fleet for a year doing crafting missions. In fact, I recently unlocked HK-51 on that toon so that he and Mako could run Unsliceable and Watching the Watchdogs, and they hand over Thermal Regulators to my augment crafters.

 

: ) )

Edited June 3, 2013 by Khevar

See that is the issue.. There are no pros and cons when you consider what the mechanics of being allowed to do that will do to the game..

 

Classes like the Jedi will become obsolete because they don't have a healing spec.. See WOW.. The most popular classes in that game are druids and Paladins.. Why?? Those are the only 2 classes that can do all three roles.. Tank, heal, and DPS..

 

Bioware fought hard not to allow this in the beta.. They altered the game to make choosing your AC so simple that even a monkey can do it.. They also added multiple VO warnings and text warnings that your choice was permanent.. It is abundantly clear.. There is no hinting about anything else.. They made it so you could see the skill trees before making your choice, made it a separate window for each AC so people couldn't complain about pressing the wrong button.. They made a lot of changes to avoid AC swapping.. There was a big debate about is the AC a class or not and Bioware came out and flat said that the AC's were in fact a class.. Bioware also stated that they didn't want a single class to be able to both tank and heal.. It is actually better for the game that way.. This was all covered and decided in the beta.. Sure.. They always reserve the right to change their mind.. But their stance on this has not changed since before this game was released..

 

You all are talking about one of the fundamental rules of the game.. No one class can both tank and heal.. It would not be good for the game to change that.. Period..

 

So no.. There are no reasons to allow AC swapping.. It would adversely effect the game if it were allowed.. Which trumps any pros and cons you feel are valid..

 

This is a very good point and it has been mentioned before...I think it's one of the strongest ones against, and I am concerned about it as well...the devaluation of certain ACs as a result of allowing something like this.

 

I do not agree that there are no reasons, nor do I feel this reason trumps all others...but I do agree it is a serious concern.

This is a very good point and it has been mentioned before...I think it's one of the strongest ones against, and I am concerned about it as well...the devaluation of certain ACs as a result of allowing something like this.

Which one of his nonsensical points was "very good?"

Which one of his nonsensical points was "very good?"

The position is if there were an easy-AC-respec, Consulars, Troopers, Bounty Hunters and Inquisitors would all be able to switch between Heals, Damage and Tanks.

 

Yet Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors would only be able to switch between Damage and Tanks. And Smugglers / Agents would only be able to switch between Heals and Damage.

 

Potentially devaluing those classes as they wouldn't be as flexible as the others.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Khevar

so, you buy new gear... Also, how will this ruin diversity? There is no logic in that reply.... Unless you fear everyone will want to be a Marauder? There will still be EIGHT classes and a few people switching AC does not mean anything less, in terms, of "diversity".

 

You're ignoring the fact that we have 16 classes now, 8 per faction. I'm guessing that all 16 are represented fairly evenly, give or take a few percentage points. If they allow class changes, the "weaker" class will suddenly see a drop in representation, and the "OP" class will see an upsurge in representation. This is an adverse affect on diversity.

 

 

Your could NOT tank and heal on the same character...

If you switch from a Sorc, to Assassin, you will LOSE, your ability to heal.....

 

You will lose your ability to heal while you are an assassin, but the next time your guild or that pug needs a healer, "Oh, let me switch back to sorcerer". Now you can heal, although not tank, while you are a sorcerer. This effectively gives you the ability to fill all three roles with one character.

No, but with pages and pages of replies and people making their thoughts knows, you will notice, i am not for this also becoming a free-for-all.... If you were addressing that specific part, it could be better, for the people following this, to see you quote it.... I would have agreed with you if that was the case.

 

I want AC changes, I do want restrictions on it.... A field respec of classes, NO.... I also think it would be a one time deal, with a 30 day period to return back, but that's it (per toon). I want to see this implemented as a way for people to correct a bad choice, not so people have options to heal, while tanking or anything else crazy like that.

 

You cannot even remain consistent in your own defense. Which is it you want-a one time deal, or multiple times? You cannot have both.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Ratajack

Currently, there are only two classes who cannot fill more then one roll through respec. Asking for AC respec will increase players gear requirements for all their off specs, but provide no real advantage. most players takin advantage of a feature of this type will already have characters of multiple roles at max level.

 

I truly feel a feature of this nature wouldn't be used often and would require a lot of time testing and implementing.

 

For some, its a question of time investment. I get it, you have a nice job and more money then sense. You should be able to mess your characters up however you choose I suppose. For me, it's much easier to level another character with his own bank and gear sets, for additional roles I'm wishing to play...

 

If you guys are hell bent on giving bioware your money, I'm certain they will take it.

 

 

Currently, there are No classes that can fill more than two roles, and therefore no one character can fill more than two roles. Allowing AC changes would throw that restriction right out the window.

 

We've already had at least two people ask for "one time" changes, but they obviously aren't serious about a one time change is they insist on leaving themselves an "out". It says a lot when even the people who want it restricted to "one time" only want to be able to have at least a second chance to switch.

Currently, there are No classes that can fill more than two roles, and therefore no one character can fill more than two roles. Allowing AC changes would throw that restriction right out the window.

 

We've already had at least two people ask for "one time" changes, but they obviously aren't serious about a one time change is they insist on leaving themselves an "out". It says a lot when even the people who want it restricted to "one time" only want to be able to have at least a second chance to switch.

I wonder if there is a version of the AC respec which would be restrictive enough to prevent abuse.

The only way I would ever be OK with this is if it were only available at low levels. Maybe even up until like level 40 or something. Once you hit max level or close to max level, no way. I could see someone starting an AC and deciding they don't like it and wanting to switch to the other. But once you get to max level and start gearing? It becomes pay to win.

 

I still would be against it, but I would be OK with it.

you guys realize that by posting on this thread and keeping it alive, you are indirectly guaranteeing that AC swap will happen.

 

for example, look at the legacy datatrons thread

 

 

people keep talking about it long enough until bioware went "meh apparently this idea generate such a huge volume of responses, maybe we should do datatrons for legacy"

 

 

so in a way, the more people is posting here is guaranteeing it that AC swap will happen.

Yes, I think out of all the options the one that makes the most sense and covers the largest amount of problems from the "con" crowd would be allowing the change shortly after it is chosen for the first time...a short window to change your mind.

If this feature is offered, I don't understand why you would restrict the use of the option....

 

My sole concern is that trooper and consulars can fill 3 roles, while smugglers and knights are limited to only two. It's plain ole' not fair!

We're not talking about "a game," we are talking about this game. There is no necessary competition in TOR unless you choose to add it by PvPing. In fact, PvE is more about cooperation than competition. So you just go back to your "hard work" playing a game and let the adults have their fun.

 

lol nice bit of trolling. Your argument then is premised on tor not being a game. Fail. You should have given up two posts ago.

 

 

When I plan to spew hyperbole and illogic, I'll send you a memo first so you will be prepared for it.

 

Put a brick in that purse before you swing it, it might actually have some affect.

 

Are you implying that canceling the game would adversely affect me, or anyone? Seriously? Gosh, I guess if the game were canceled I'd have to go live in a cave as a hermit because I would not be able to find something else equally entertaining to do with my leisure time and money.

There was no implication. My point is straightforward and coherent: you apparently want to remove competition from the game, making it not a game. Having tor simply disappear would also make it not a game. Would we be adversely affected by making tor "not a game"? No. We just would not have this game to play.

 

And if the demand is there for AC change at a cost of some CC, BWEA will fill that demand. So gale we have come to terms on this and you have abandoned your nonsensical thinking.

 

The only nonsensical part of my thinking is arguing with you, because you cannot create a legitimate argument against a nonsensical idea.

If this feature is offered, I don't understand why you would restrict the use of the option....

 

My sole concern is that trooper and consulars can fill 3 roles, while smugglers and knights are limited to only two. It's plain ole' not fair!

 

I am FOR AC changes, but it has to have "some" restrictions....

 

first and foremost, I do not want to piss off, nor should BW piss off the "haters" even further, if this becomes something similar to a field re-spec. I do think compromise should be looked at, maybe we keep down the flame wars WHEN it happens, as we all know, it IS in the works.

 

In reality, changing an AC, is still changing a class.... I know the haters will always say, then you must be for base class changes as well... I am NOT.

 

I look at changing the AC, as a way to correct a mistake, to give you one chance to be in the other AC, at a price and maybe a one time free return, within 30 days. something like that.....

 

I do not want to go over again other ideas, myself and others have.... I am FOR IT, but there really needs to be limits... Just my opinion of course, others will differ.

I am FOR AC changes, but it has to have "some" restrictions....

 

first and foremost, I do not want to piss off, nor should BW piss off the "haters" even further, if this becomes something similar to a field re-spec. I do think compromise should be looked at, maybe we keep down the flame wars WHEN it happens, as we all know, it IS in the works.

 

In reality, changing an AC, is still changing a class.... I know the haters will always say, then you must be for base class changes as well... I am NOT.

 

I look at changing the AC, as a way to correct a mistake, to give you one chance to be in the other AC, at a price and maybe a one time free return, within 30 days. something like that.....

 

I do not want to go over again other ideas, myself and others have.... I am FOR IT, but there really needs to be limits... Just my opinion of course, others will differ.

 

I'm playing the devils advocate here, but, there's no reason to gate the number of times you can change. Or even restrict it from field respec. The only complication i can think of is raids of Sages stealthing through operations to bosses and respecing once they get ready to stage them.

 

Regardless, This would Devalue and unbalance the game for 2 classes since Knights cant heal, and Smugglers cant tank.

I'm playing the devils advocate here, but, there's no reason to gate the number of times you can change. Or even restrict it from field respec. The only complication i can think of is raids of Sages stealthing through operations to bosses and respecing once they get ready to stage them.

 

Regardless, This would Devalue and unbalance the game for 2 classes since Knights cant heal, and Smugglers cant tank.

 

There plenty of reason to not allow an unlimited AC swap on the fly. I doubt anyone except the "I want to be OP " crowd would want that.

 

An AC swap with limitations allows the gamers that played a class, put in effort into the class and collected gear, tiles or whatever to still hold onto that while breathing a bit of new life into the toon.

 

The restrictions are there to prevent those classes that can from taking advantage of every role vs classes that have limited class roles through AC's.

 

The way I envision it is something like this:

• A fairly high monetary cost (Around the cost of 1800 coins or 3/4 months of subscriber coins given how you subscribe)
  
• A lengthy time limit on AC swapping (Once per 3 months - similar to cost)
  
• A limit cap on AC swapping (you can AC swap a toon twice only) The reason for that is if you go to the other AC and it's worse for the gamer, they can at least get back to an AC they like, even if it's just a little)
  

 

Those restrictions stops gamers from milking every AC in the game on the fly (which I think most dislike). It allows those that really do hate their chosen AC to stop using it and change for another AC - gaining more mileage out of the game and not losing everything they collected or gained.

 

There really has to be limits on the AC swap but I think SWTOR is setup like no other MMO with it's classes and AC's. Something like this would really set SWTOR apart from other MMO's that are not designed as SWTOR is.

 

I really do expect to see this option in the future. It was in beta so we know it's there. It just needs to be fine tuned and released.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Quraswren

There plenty of reason to not allow an unlimited AC swap on the fly. I doubt anyone except the "I want to be OP " crowd would want that.

 

An AC swap with limitations allows the gamers that played a class, put in effort into the class and collected gear, tiles or whatever to still hold onto that while breathing a bit of new life into the toon.

 

The restrictions are there to prevent those classes that can from taking advantage of every role vs classes that have limited class roles through AC's.

 

The way I envision it is something like this:

• A fairly high monetary cost (Around the cost of 1800 coins or 3/4 months of subscriber coins given how you subscribe)
  
• A lengthy time limit on AC swapping (Once per 3 months - similar to cost)
  
• A limit cap on AC swapping (you can AC swap a toon twice only) The reason for that is if you go to the other AC and it's worse for the gamer, they can at least get back to an AC they like, even if it's just a little)
  

 

Those restrictions stops gamers from milking every AC in the game on the fly (which I think most dislike). It allows those that really do hate their chosen AC to stop using it and change for another AC - gaining more mileage out of the game and not losing everything they collected or gained.

 

There really has to be limits on the AC swap but I think SWTOR is setup like no other MMO with it's classes and AC's. Something like this would really set SWTOR apart from other MMO's that are not designed as SWTOR is.

 

I really do expect to see this option in the future. It was in beta so we know it's there. It just needs to be fine tuned and released.

 

you kept saying it over and over, "limited AC swap"....something about milking all the AC's.....for alt set gear or something?

 

However, you never gave any reasons why it would be detrimental to the game. I offered a reason it would possibly be abused. Can you think of any other besides loot whoreing which occurs anyway?

The position is if there were an easy-AC-respec, Consulars, Troopers, Bounty Hunters and Inquisitors would all be able to switch between Heals, Damage and Tanks.

What kind of nonsense scenarios are people spinning in their fevered imaginations? DPS-spec Assassin one Op, then heal-spec Sorcerer the next then tank-spec Assassin for the next? It it happens, AC change is going to cost 100s of CCs. If that's how someone wants to spend 100s of CCs, who are you (or anyone else) to tell them they shouldn't?

 

Yet Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors would only be able to switch between Damage and Tanks. And Smugglers / Agents would only be able to switch between Heals and Damage. Potentially devaluing those classes as they wouldn't be as flexible as the others.

So what, even assuming it were true?

you kept saying it over and over, "limited AC swap"....something about milking all the AC's.....for alt set gear or something?

 

However, you never gave any reasons why it would be detrimental to the game. I offered a reason it would possibly be abused. Can you think of any other besides loot whoreing which occurs anyway?

 

Whoever it was saying the game is based on players not having every AC is correct. No AC in this game can do that and thats a good thing.

 

An unlimited, on the fly AC swap would be too much. The classes that can hit every role would be the catch all, limiting all other classes especially if they could tank, heal and DPS (both ranged and melee) as well as the other classes with limited role access.

 

It just doesn't work out well logistically for this game allowing AC swapping anytime given how it;'s designed and setup thru classes and AC's

 

However, an AC swap with limiting factors prevents the need to balance a tri-spec class, as well as keep the loot whoring to the levels that we current deal with. Making little change in that area.

 

Plus, limitations on an AC swap helps smooth out the rough edges some gamers have by allowing even the option of an AC swap. Some may never like it, but putting a limitation on it keeps things in check.

Edited June 4, 2013 by Quraswren

lol nice bit of trolling. Your argument then is premised on tor not being a game. Fail. You should have given up two posts ago.

Yeah, I concealed the fact that I think TOR is not a game by calling it a game.

 

There was no implication. My point is straightforward and coherent: you apparently want to remove competition from the game, making it not a game.

Then PvE must not inherently be a game. But wait, it is a game. It's just not an inherently competitive one. Perhaps you need to look up the word "inherent." And don't look up "inherit" by mistake. Perhaps you need to look up "game" while you're at it.

 

Having tor simply disappear would also make it not a game. Would we be adversely affected by making tor "not a game"? No. We just would not have this game to play.

I think you just wrote something cogent. Call the Pope! Call The National Enquirer! Two-headed crocodile-apple crossbreed, your oddity has been eclipsed!

 

The only nonsensical part of my thinking is arguing with you, because you cannot create a legitimate argument against a nonsensical idea.

Winding you up and watching you whirl around like a monkey on crack is way legit, dude.

Edited June 4, 2013 by branmakmuffin