Now that everyone has more expertise I can't burst anyone.

 

FAILCLASS.

Now that everyone has more expertise I can't burst anyone.

 

FAILCLASS.

 

whut.

Buff? hopefully never. No need to encourage that sort of gameplay.

Buff? hopefully never. No need to encourage that sort of gameplay.

 

Operative DPS isn't really a good choice in ranked PvP.... ranked pvp is about having the best at everything...

 

Pure Melee DPS the operative does not come close to smashers. No one does. Any class that has an Auto-Crit owns at Pure DPS because they replace all their Crit gear with Power. Besides Jugs and Mars, Pyro PT, Snipers both put out a ton of burst.

 

Off-Heal DPS sorc has bubbles, which is an instant cast that only takes 1gcd. The Tanky AC's have taunts which are like heals in that it is damage that mitigated.

 

Stealth Defender Viable but Assassin has better defensive cooldowns which makes them a better defender.

 

Stealth Attacker. FINALLY a place operatives shine. That mad suprise burst is great in a 1v1. Infiltrate can be useful, but only in certain situations. The slowdown makes it painful and most good teams keep track of how many people are where. And, lets face it, Assassins aren't that bad at being a stealth attacker either. And they get that awesome cooldown and better speed burst.

 

Here are things I've been asking for DPS:

1) Immunity to AoE taunt and CC while stealthed.

2) Collateral Damage/Lacerate damage boost for Concealment. Turn Weakening Blast into an AoE for lethality.

3) Less Energy Intensive

t. Turn Weakening Blast into an AoE for lethality.

Jeeez my sniper would like this one

There are a few operatives showing that this class is not only dangerous but a monster in the right hands. How many times have I been stabbed almost to death while not getting up? Breaker is not always available and oftentimes resilience and deflection have been used. Once ganked without these three, you can have the best geared assassin, a rightly played operative will tear you a new one

Honestly the one thing I would like to see implemented is when flechette round/acid blade is an active buff I'm yourself it increases energy regenerate by an additional 2 per second giving us 7/s and the extra 3 from pugnacity.

 

Other than that maybe some sustained damage increases here and there but no burst increases. Shoot first and sabo charge can drop most non tank classes to 50%

 

Also one thing that has blown my mind for such a long time. The crit multiplier bonus at the top of the scrapper tree has a bonus to tendon blast......... Our slow seriously has a crit bonus to it? WHY!!!! That would be like giving a deception sin a crit bonus to force slow instead of shock.

 

They need to put sabotage charge on the crit bonus instead of our slow.

There are a few operatives showing that this class is not only dangerous but a monster in the right hands. How many times have I been stabbed almost to death while not getting up? Breaker is not always available and oftentimes resilience and deflection have been used. Once ganked without these three, you can have the best geared assassin, a rightly played operative will tear you a new one

 

So Top geared min/maxed op who blows all his cooldowns can kill someone without any of their cooldowns and no help!? Amazing!

The only iffy class to fight for a scrapper is a shadow tank, but that's only if they pop you. And if you get popped while having 3 higher stealth levels and a possible 2 additional stealth detection levels, you should reevaluate yourself Aside from that, I've never had a huge issue with any class 1v1. Energy management can be a bit tight, and i wouldn't mind a sustained damage buff, but i still managed to do 775k in a Voidstar yesterday without much issue.

There's a group of mercenaries and commandos outside that would like to have a word with you.

There are a few operatives showing that this class is not only dangerous but a monster in the right hands. How many times have I been stabbed almost to death while not getting up? Breaker is not always available and oftentimes resilience and deflection have been used. Once ganked without these three, you can have the best geared assassin, a rightly played operative will tear you a new one

This statement is absolutely ridiculous. You are dying 1v1 against an Operative with no defensive CDs up? Good! That means at least something about this class is done right. Because Ops/Scraps are often dying 1v1 to most superior DPS classes (Powertech and Marauder come to mind) even with all cooldowns up. They can be beaten, but it often comes down to gear, consumables, and crit luck.

 

This class really wants for a decent defensive CD (Shield Probe is a good concept, but it needs increased absorption or decreased CD. Evasion looks decent at first, but laughable when actually compared with Resilience or Saber Ward or Defensive Screen or basically any other defensive CD in the game).

 

Sustained damage can also be improved, but I often find that this is an issue of players getting too overzealous with their CDs and popping everything too early in the fight. If you calm down and execute your abilities properly, you should have enough energy to take down a target, or stick around in a fight.

 

The class does not need any huge buffs. It might get scary if buffed too much. But some slight improvements to stealth, upperhand and laceration mechanics, and defensive CDs would make the class a lot more viable in Ranked gameplay (plus a simultaneous nerf to other DPS classes).

Edited January 3, 2013 by ktkenshinx

Operatives actually win a large number of dueling tournaments...

 

Just sayin'

Edited January 3, 2013 by UGLYMRJ

Operatives actually win a large number of dueling tournaments...

 

Just sayin'

You are totally correct. If I have every single one of my cooldowns up, I very, very rarely lose a 1v1. The big one here is Disappearing Act; getting another Shoot First + FR application is just too much damage for most classes to come back from, especially with 70% critting Backblasts stacked with Sabotage Charge.

 

But as everyone here knows, Ranked WZ gameplay is nothing like a dueling tournament. Our WZ utility is just awful compared with our natural competitors, Shadows/Sins. Certainly for Huttball, we are worse in literally almost every respect. Even in other WZs, the lack of guard, taunt, force speed, and Assassinate alone make us a pretty dismal choice over a Shadow. We have a few tools that Shadows lack (a better AOE mezz, slightly better burst, an awesome AOE damage ability), but it really ends there.

Edited January 3, 2013 by ktkenshinx

You are totally correct. If I have every single one of my cooldowns up, I very, very rarely lose a 1v1. The big one here is Disappearing Act; getting another Shoot First + FR application is just too much damage for most classes to come back from, especially with 70% critting Backblasts stacked with Sabotage Charge.

 

But as everyone here knows, Ranked WZ gameplay is nothing like a dueling tournament. Our WZ utility is just awful compared with our natural competitors, Shadows/Sins. Certainly for Huttball, we are worse in literally almost every respect. Even in other WZs, the lack of guard, taunt, force speed, and Assassinate alone make us a pretty dismal choice over a Shadow. We have a few tools that Shadows lack (a better AOE mezz, slightly better burst, an awesome AOE damage ability), but it really ends there.

 

Absolutely agree on all counts. It sounded as if you were saying they weren't a good 1v1 class which is the only reason I brought that up.

 

And you forgot resource management.

Operatives actually win a large number of dueling tournaments...

 

Just sayin'

 

*insert sarcastic willy wonka* Tell me again where pvp is a one on one match up?

 

In all seriousness. I have played my main since the beginning.. it's true that in 1.6 we dps operatives have dwindled because of the FOTM specs that kill us, AKA the smash jugs hitting for 9-10k without taking any damage in return, the bubble specs stunning every second with little resolve added, the hybrid assassins/powertechs etc. but I've found that goofing around with my own concoction of a lethality/concealment hybrid brings me joy. I'm not effective as a teammate what so ever, I just find it funny to see people's expressions when I hit them for 10k over the course of 3 moves, Cull+ EP/Backstab although, setup time is horribad.

 

My hope is that they will fix us in the expansion, and that's the only thing I am currently clinging onto.

There are a few operatives showing that this class is not only dangerous but a monster in the right hands. How many times have I been stabbed almost to death while not getting up? Breaker is not always available and oftentimes resilience and deflection have been used. Once ganked without these three, you can have the best geared assassin, a rightly played operative will tear you a new one

 

I found out that lag has a lot to do with this. When you find yourself not even being able to fight back or run away and your HP seemed to have disappeared so fast. It's not because ops are so dangerous anymore, it's mostly due to lag not being able to register their character on the screen and make him targetable in time. Their dps is really lacking and I don't think it is enough to kill any kind of tank, assassin or not. Once they use those first two abilities they have, they are pretty much done, and the fight quickly swings out of their favor. That is why you always find them targeting the squishiest of targets, mostly light armor healers and snipers who are basically turrets since they rely on cover and have far less mobility than other classes. Being a good operative these days has a lot to do with choosing the right targets and the right opportunity. They used to scare me, but now it's been quite a while since I've been killed by just one on my healer. Two or more will kill you fast, but two or more of any class can do that.

To sum up this thread: Skilled Operative with min/maxed gear = Any other skilled class not trying as hard.

 

If you are unlucky as an Operative/Scoundrel and do not get crits on the first hidden strike/backstab the fight is very nearly lost, unless the other player really screws up. To depend on crits that much, really sucks...

To sum up this thread: Skilled Operative with min/maxed gear = Any other skilled class not trying as hard.

 

If you are unlucky as an Operative/Scoundrel and do not get crits on the first hidden strike/backstab the fight is very nearly lost, unless the other player really screws up. To depend on crits that much, really sucks...

 

I rarely lose when i get the opener off 1v1. I have min/maxed WH gear only . The only cds I ever use are Sneak for the speed bonus.

Compared to other classes, DPS Scoundrels have nothing that someone else can't do better, faster, or with less effort.

 

Burst? 7k AoE Smash and Rail Shot both hit harder with less effort than Shoot First.

Utility? No gap closer. No Knockback. No group buff.

Sustained Damage? Lol.

Survivability? Shield Probe is a total joke. Evasion lasts 4 seconds and has a long CD. Disappearing Act has an even longer CD and you're broken out of stealth if a DoT ticks on you.

 

The needs a combination of:

-A finisher. The fact that Assassins have one and we don't is BS.

-More damage mitigation OR buff the effectiveness of the CDs.

-Nerf the burst of smash monkeys and Rail Shot fanatics. An attack with positional requirements that can only be used from stealth (and can only be used realistically once in a fight) should hit harder than attacks with short CDs that are part of a natural rotation anyway.

-Better sustained damage.

Compared to other classes, DPS Scoundrels have nothing that someone else can't do better, faster, or with less effort.

 

Burst? 7k AoE Smash and Rail Shot both hit harder with less effort than Shoot First.

I agree with everything else that you said. We have no utility that Shadows don't have, no gap closer worth mentioning, no knock back, no group utility, laughable sustained damage, and god awful survivability.

 

But then there's burst. Rail Shot and Smash both hit harder on their own, but our opening burst COMBO is stronger. Or at least, it has the potential to hit harder if we get crits. If Shoot First crits (51% chance: 35% base + 16% talent) and Backblast crits (66% chance: 35% base + 16% talent + 15% set bonus), that combined opening burst exceeds that of any other class. Shoot First + FR + Blaster Whip + Sucker Punch + Backblast + FR + Sucker Punch is just so much burst in those first few seconds. If you throw a Dirty Kick in there and they lack their escape, its also completely unanswerable.

 

That all said, I still agree that the class is majorly underpowered. Smashers and even DPS Sins can come very close to our opening burst combo without a) having to rely on crit chance and b) expending so many resources. I am just trying to look on the bright side of an otherwise dismal situation.

Don't forget the power of Sabo Charge and Quick Shot when the person is running away.

 

I feel...They could lower the damage a little bit on Shoot First but up its Crit chance to make the class more consistent with other classes burst. The main problem with Smashers is that the class is so consistent and critting and wrecking any defense that a player has, rendering Tanks even more obsolete.

 

While they tried to help us by giving us a speed boost with sneak, the cooldown outside of stealth just doesnt cut it against roots and pushes and slows. It needs to break those effects when specced correctly and be on a shorter cooldown.

 

I have started playing my guardian as a Vigilance dps, just for fun. MY GOD is dpsing on that character easy, just rotation and combat focus, I use Guardian Leap cause I get bored of the dps rotation its sooo easy. Scoundrel dps seems to be far and away the hardest to play from my experience and what has been told to me.

 

I think the only thing that might increase our sustained dps would be a boost to vital shot in conjunction with the middle tree, a great idea I had was:

Tier 4- (in addition to Stopping Power)

Vital Shot now triples in damage when target is below 30%.

 

People with cleanse can use it and it wont be a problem, but against tanks and some other dps it could actually be the killing blow as they run away. In Operations this would help quite a bit too.

Operatives actually win a large number of dueling tournaments...

 

Just sayin'

 

Healer ops!

concealment ops are fine, we can take almost 50% of their hp at the first second, yes dmg is weaker after that but the targets health is half, and with the amount of cc and defenses you can

hell if you want to make thinks easier you can stelth and hidden strike him twice after the cd is over xD, pretty deadly

 

its the lethality ops that need a buff, they dont rely as much in stealth and require you to be out of stealth more which makes you die rly fast since your really squishy

concealment ops are fine, we can take almost 50% of their hp at the first second, yes dmg is weaker after that but the targets health is half, and with the amount of cc and defenses you can

hell if you want to make thinks easier you can stelth and hidden strike him twice after the cd is over xD, pretty deadly

 

its the lethality ops that need a buff, they dont rely as much in stealth and require you to be out of stealth more which makes you die rly fast since your really squishy

 

Who are you fighting that you are taking half their health in 1gcd? Because... No

 

Another thing is our armor pen doesn't compare at all to powertech's railshot armor pen. And our armor pen is applied by our big opener, so the opener doesn't get the armor pen. Yan of course do something like AB+HS,Shiv,AB+BS,Vanish, AB+HS to get the armor pen on a big hit. But... again the problem with operative dps is "okay then what?" because you got nothing left to dish out after that.

 

Okay, and for serious, why do I keep having to re-coat the blade? Not that it is a pain or anything.... And maybe I've just not noticed. But does the AB buff disappear from the buff bar after you've applied it? I always just keep track in my head if I don't need to re-apply it. (Go to backstab and can't).

Edited January 3, 2013 by RyanReagan

+1 Ops playing Juggernaut now. Played pure Lethality from start (even in times when concealment was considered OP). I can do OK in PvE still (thanks to gear) but PvP ... i just given up. Concealment isn't the quite kind of 'my play' and i'm not good healer as it is so boring for me.

As for Lethality, PvP is broken for many reasons. I'd like to see some 'love' for Lethality, but ... It never happend in a year (with exception of 1 small fix). So... let's face the reality and back to Jug...

Edited January 3, 2013 by tatatan