Very nice, thanks for the info.

Per this comment above, I added tuskake's post with the stats DR chart and target soft caps:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp#stats

For the "secondary" stats, there is diminishing returns. Check out tuskake's post on the official forums for a chart and numbers. Based on tuskake's post, here are "soft caps" for some of the secondary stats relevant to this AC:

• Crit Rating: 300
  
• Surge Rating: 150
  

PVP

 

• Primary stats: Aim = Endurance, favor one over the other for damage vs time-to-live
  
• Secondary stats:
  
  • DPS builds: Expertise > Crit Rating > Power = Surge Rating > Accuracy Rating > Alacrity Rating = Defense Rating > Shield Rating
    
  • Max durability builds: Expertise > Defense Rating > Shield Rating > Crit Rating > Power = Surge Rating > Accuracy Rating > Alacrity Rating
    

Alacrity is similar to WoW's Haste mechanic, and as the vast majority of your GCDs will be spent on instant-cast abilities, this stat is mostly wasted. Alacrity does shorten channeled ability cast times but all of our meaningful channeled abilities have significant cooldowns.

Nice addition.

Wanted to try out the Iron Fist spec, but since I only have eliminator gear hasn't been worth it yet.

Nice addition.

 

Wanted to try out the Iron Fist spec, but since I only have eliminator gear hasn't been worth it yet.

My 25/14/2 "Iron Fist" spec has been very effective in PVP, both group play and solo. It was something I've been looking at on paper, and since I switched to it two days ago, it has exceeded my expectations.

With 4-pc Tech bonus and 2 points in Static Shield adding up to +45% Crit Chance for Rocket Punch, I have a base 72+% Crit Chance with Rocket Punch and it hits hard with the 30% Surge bonus from Static Surge. This is with non-BM gear (I'm Valor 56 atm), so with BM gear my numbers will increase.

My spec also has a significant amount of flat mitigation against all damage types. The Flame Burst debuff stacks along with the two 2% mitigation talents and 5% mitigation from the tanking stance to provide a whopping 13% mitigation against an opposing DPS. As I wrote earlier this month, with the mechanics for Defense and Shield, mitigation is king in PVP:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

The thing I'm loving about "Iron Fist" is it's built around close-quarters combat and durability, so you can tank and burn down MDPS and pressure and shutdown casters and healers, while retaining Guard, charge, and debuff capability.

Newbie Vanguard here - anyone have a list of which attacks are Tech? Trying to plan ahead and torhead doesn't list attack type. Thanks!

Check the Abilities window in-game, and look at the right-hand column.

That lists the Attack type (Force, Melee, Ranged, or Tech).

If I switched to this build what offhand power gen would you recommend.

Super Commando Shield Gen or Eliminator Gen.

From reading your articles it seems like shield is pretty well useless? I am primarily interested in a offhand gen that will assist in 1 v 1 vs Sorc, Assassins, Marauders/Juggs.

Hey Taugrim, you mentioned a "Short-Range Shutdown DPS: 8/31/2" template in your guide, wanted to know if you could go into it a bit further on some of the pros / cons. Seems like a very nice damage dealer with speed for intermediate ranges. How does it compare to the Iron Fist?

Both are melee / short-range specs but with different purposes.

Iron Fist retains much of the CC capability of 8/31/2 and offers better durability and Guard.

8/31/2 has passive and on-demand movement buffs and better burst with more abilites and more Elemental damage focus.

So it depends what you are looking for.

If I switched to this build what offhand power gen would you recommend.

Which build? Several are mentioned in the Guide's spec section:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#specs

The stuff i read in your guide was nice, but a bit to many words for my taste I did like that you put up that movie with pros and cons with different specs, some good stuff there.

Can't please everyone

I end up adding a lot of content over time based on the frequently-asked questions posted about the class.

Added PVE specs to the Guide:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/19/understanding-swtors-avoidance-and-mitigation-mechanics-for-tanks-in-pvp/

To answer a question I've been getting a lot: yes, you can run my "Iron Fist" PVP tank spec in PVE for Flashpoints in Hard Mode.

I just started running HM Flashpoints in the past week, since I skipped Flashpoints until end-game. Went straight to HM lol.

Running a PVP tank spec for PVE is not optimal obviously, but it works and keeps your re-spec costs down. Just try to get some PVE tanking gear to help out your healer.

What's our defensive stat? In PVE it's Absorption, is it the same way or is defense a better stat for a pvp tank?

Read this about Defense and Shield:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#defense-mechanics

and then read this for stat priority for PVP tanks:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#stats

Taugrims guide is invaluable, especially this early in the game. Videos and this level of breakdown and the analysis of the game's offense and defense dynamics is just excellent. All for free too!

If I had a decent guide like this to base decisions on in SWG ten years ago the game would have been much better. There was no option to change skills in that game other than re-level everything and a guide like this early on would have been gold.

I don't see where you rank absorb rating.

PS I see that you like to gear for damage even when tanking but i'm talking about relics; do I want the relic with the def ability or the shield/absorb ability? Your write up makes both of these stats sounds like garbage (which makes complete sense) but there's no math backup.

Which build? Several are mentioned in the Guide's spec section:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#specs

Hey Taugrim

If I switched to the Ironfist build what offhand power gen would you recommend.

Super Commando Shield Gen or Eliminator Gen.

From reading your articles it seems like shield is pretty well useless? I am primarily interested in a offhand gen that will assist in 1 v 1 vs Sorc, Assassins, Marauders/Juggs.

I also wanted to thank you for your guides and insight. I followed you from Rift and played a tank warrior. Some of the most fun I have ever had with a class.

If you can I would like to see more videos of you in 1 v 1 fights vs geared Sin's, Sorc's, Marauder's, Jugg's and how you defeat them. I find the class lacks significant 1 v 1 utility in comparison to other classes. E.G. The ability to leave a fight when its not looking good. We have no superspeed, super shields, etc.

I just read your tanking stats recomendation.

Why do you value accuracy at all?

Tech attacks should be more or less at cap (or over it) to begin and ranged attacks are a very low part of your DPS as a ST spec (only railshot and rapid shots, unload not worth it when getting hit). Surely surge will offer more threat?

The dps stats seem a little off in priority too. What are you basing it on? From what i've read most everywhere else seems to have surge>crit>power till the softcaps then stack power. Again accuracy is very bad as a stat because of tech moves 10% higher hit chance.

I don't see where you rank absorb rating.

 

PS I see that you like to gear for damage even when tanking but i'm talking about relics; do I want the relic with the def ability or the shield/absorb ability? Your write up makes both of these stats sounds like garbage (which makes complete sense) but there's no math backup.

It's been verified by multiple people that you can't Defend or Shield Force or Tech attacks, and therefore the benefit provided by Defense and Shield against those attack types is 0%. That's the only number you need to know.

Defense and Shield do work against Melee and Ranged attacks, so you will see benefit against classes such as GS/Sniper, JK/SW, etc from those stats. But not to the point where you should consider stacking them.

If I switched to the Ironfist build what offhand power gen would you recommend.

 

Super Commando Shield Gen or Eliminator Gen.

UPDATE (2012/2/2): people have been asking about gear for this spec. Here's what you want to get:

• Supercommando Shield offhand: to leverage the free +15% Shield Chance buff you get from the tanking stance. While I don't believe the Shield Chance stat is worth stacking for PVP, the +15% benefit is worth leveraging
  
• Combat Tech 4-pc set: for the awesome +15% Crit Chance to Rocket Punch (Stockstrike). Alternatively, if you prefer the Supercommando set bonuses, you can go 4-pc Supercommando and swap out the mods for DPS ones
  
• Go for DPS stats for the remaining slots: this means Eliminator, Combat Tech, and in some cases Combat Medic. The priority for the stats is what I documented in the Stats and Gear section of my Powertech / Vanguard Guide
  

From reading your articles it seems like shield is pretty well useless? I am primarily interested in a offhand gen that will assist in 1 v 1 vs Sorc, Assassins, Marauders/Juggs.

You want the Shield offhand, it will help against Assassin, Mara/Jugs, and Snipers.

Are you trying to kill people on your own faction (Huttball?)?

I also wanted to thank you for your guides and insight. I followed you from Rift and played a tank warrior. Some of the most fun I have ever had with a class.

You're welcome!

If you can I would like to see more videos of you in 1 v 1 fights vs geared Sin's, Sorc's, Marauder's, Jugg's and how you defeat them. I find the class lacks significant 1 v 1 utility in comparison to other classes. E.G. The ability to leave a fight when its not looking good. We have no superspeed, super shields, etc.

I find that Iron Fist rocks against other tanks and DPS in 1v1s.

I'm in the process of making "Daily" videos that feature 1v1s and small-scale fighting. E.g. here's my video of 1v1s against a Jug and against an Assassin:

Taugrims guide is invaluable, especially this early in the game. Videos and this level of breakdown and the analysis of the game's offense and defense dynamics is just excellent. All for free too!

 

If I had a decent guide like this to base decisions on in SWG ten years ago the game would have been much better. There was no option to change skills in that game other than re-level everything and a guide like this early on would have been gold.

Thanks for the feedback!

This thread has been stickied, so hopefully people like you looking for information and dialogue can find it easier.

Every day I see multiple threads started with questions that are addressed in my Guide.

I just read your tanking stats recomendation.

 

Why do you value accuracy at all?

I rank Accuracy only ahead of the 3 near-useless stats for PVP tanks:

Offensive builds (including my "Iron Fist" 25/14/2 tank spec): Expertise > Crit Rating > Power = Surge Rating > Accuracy Rating > Defense Rating > Shield Rating = Alacrity Rating

Tech attacks should be more or less at cap (or over it) to begin and ranged attacks are a very low part of your DPS as a ST spec (only railshot and rapid shots, unload not worth it when getting hit). Surely surge will offer more threat?

OK, maybe you're talking about PVE tanking. In that case, let's look at what I wrote:

Secondary stats: Accuracy Rating (under Hit cap) > Shield Rating > Defense Rating > Power = Crit Rating > Surge Rating > Accuracy Rating (at/above Hit cap) > Alacrity Rating

The extent to what extent you stack Surge depends on how much your Crit Rate is, and where you are with respect to the soft DR caps I reference here:

http://taugrim.com/2012/01/04/guide-to-bounty-hunter-powertech-trooper-vanguard-mechanics-and-pvp/#stats

The dps stats seem a little off in priority too. What are you basing it on? From what i've read most everywhere else seems to have surge>crit>power till the softcaps then stack power. Again accuracy is very bad as a stat because of tech moves 10% higher hit chance.

Here is what I wrote re: DPS stats for PVE, since I'm guessing that is what you are talking about:

Secondary stats: Accuracy Rating* (under Hit cap) > Crit Rating > Power = Surge Rating > Accuracy Rating (at/above Hit cap) > Alacrity Rating > Defense Rating > Shield Rating

Again, the relative value between Crit and Surge depends what your %'s look like and where you are with respect to the soft caps.

I'm basing what I wrote on my understanding of the mechanics. At this point, without a Combat Log, it's hard to test what the relationship / priority is between stats.

I'm sure there are plenty of folks with more experience at endgame PVE than me.

I skipped all of the flashpoint content and went straight to Hard Mode Flashpoints. So far I've tanked 6 of the 7 HMs, and I plan to incorporate more PVE content into my Guide as I get more hands-on time in endgame PVE.

It's been verified by multiple people that you can't Defend or Shield Force or Tech attacks, and therefore the benefit provided by Defense and Shield against those attack types is 0%. That's the only number you need to know.

 

Defense and Shield do work against Melee and Ranged attacks, so you will see benefit against classes such as GS/Sniper, JK/SW, etc from those stats. But not to the point where you should consider stacking them.

Thanks for the info but you're really not answering my question. If placed with a choice Defense or Absorb rating, which route do you go down? In PVE you pick absorb so unless there is some huge mechanic i'm not familiar with I'm going to assume it's the same in PVP.

Thanks for the info but you're really not answering my question. If placed with a choice Defense or Absorb rating, which route do you go down? In PVE you pick absorb so unless there is some huge mechanic i'm not familiar with I'm going to assume it's the same in PVP.

What you said re: PVE makes sense.

Consider the following for PVP:

1. in the 2-roll system, Defense is checked before Shield
   
2. some classes have buff procs that AFAIK require a successful hit to proc
   
3. You can't Shield a Crit, and a Crit can push Shield Chance off the table. There are a number of buffs and talents which guarantee a Crit, which causes Shield to situationalky lose value
   

For those reasons, I favor Defense over Shield for PVP.