Let's say someone posted a poll "What Warzone map style would you like to see next in a new map? Huttball, Alderaan, or Voidstar"

 

After 2 weeks or so of voting, Alderaan has the most votes with 40%, and 300 people voting for it. 3 months later, we release a new patch, and we have a new Huttball map.

 

-eric

So...are you saying we'll have the new Huttball map in 3 months time or Alderaan??

So...are you saying we'll have the new Huttball map in 3 months time or Alderaan??

I think what he's saying is that we're never getting another Voidstar. Clearly no one voted for it.

Yes, subscribers on this forum, who choose to vote in the poll...

 

There is nothing however that shows it reflects all subscribers on the forum, and certainly not all subscribers.

And it was never claimed to be any of that. You conflated it to include other users beyond who was responding to this poll and who had access to it. Polls such as this are useful in that it gives a representation of a certain subset or demographic. You mentioned political polls. There are polls taken that are geared towards certain subsets of voters, i.e. women, people of color or party affiliation. Do they then represent all voters? No they do not, they represent that certain subset of voters, much like this poll represents a certain subset of player/subscribers to this game.

So...are you saying we'll have the new Huttball map in 3 months time or Alderaan??

I want a Huttball League, with full spectator mode. Form a team of 12-16 players, 8 can go in. Hutt Ball match of 4 6 minute quarters, with subs after every Quarter. Let us bet in game credits with each other on the map. The ability to follow our favorite teams, and after the end of the season a championship where the winners get an in game trophy.

*This huttball rant brought to you by all 6 of my dailies yesterday being Huttball roflstomps and my spirit is broken.. you've won Huttball... you've won.. sob*

Yes, subscribers on this forum, who choose to vote in the poll...

 

There is nothing however that shows it reflects all subscribers on the forum, and certainly not all subscribers.

 

Add on: The yellow post above mine basically said the same thing. The opinions of people on the General forum aren't always a good reflection of the opinions of the entire Subscriber base.

 

Exactly. They'd be much smarter to actually look at the in game metrics of what all subscribers/players are actually doing in the game, than assume that a poll of a couple hundred hard core players on the general forums represents everyone in this game.

I think what he's saying is that we're never getting another Voidstar. Clearly no one voted for it.

Nooooo! That's my favorite WZ of them all. CURSE YOU AND UR FLAWED POLL ERIC!!!

Wait, the claim is this poll is a good representation, that is what has to proved. You just asked me to prove a negative.

 

Somebody doesn't get to go "Aliens are out there and are getting ready to invade." and then answer that they have no proof with "Pove Aliens aren't out there!!!" That's insane.

No.. I simply asked you to demonstrate your insistent claim that it is invalid.

From my perspective, the continued statistical stability of the poll demonstrates that you are wrong. You are right on theory, wrong on this particular context. If the numbers continued to wobble wildly all over the place, I would support your claim. But that is not the case here. I agree that the poll does not follow best practices, but that alone does not make it invalid.

And it was never claimed to be any of that. You conflated it to include other users beyond who was responding to this poll and who had access to it. Polls such as this are useful in that it gives a representation of a certain subset or demographic. You mentioned political polls. There are polls taken that are geared towards certain subsets of voters, i.e. women, people of color or party affiliation. Do they then represent all voters? No they do not, they represent that certain subset of voters, much like this poll represents a certain subset of player/subscribers to this game.

My point was always that it was important to understand exactly what the poll could show and what it couldn't show. I have no idea why you are arguing with me about something that it seems we have the exact same opinion on.

I never said the poll in question was bad, I said I even filled it out myself... I really am not sure what problem you have with what I said, because as far as I can tell we both agree with each other 100%, in that the poll only shows the desires of a very small subset of the Subscribers and shouldn't be taken to mean anything more.

So...are you saying we'll have the new Huttball map in 3 months time or Alderaan??

Damn, you beat me to it, kind of . I was going to quote him and exclaim how we're getting a new Huttball map. And it will be on grass that resembles an American soccer field to add to the confusion about kicking the huttball. And everyone who kicks the huttball gets the title 'the Cheater', along with a scolding from Baron Deathmark. Wait, what is this thread about?

No.. I simply asked you to demonstrate your insistent claim that it is invalid.

 

From my perspective, the continued statistical stability of the poll demonstrates that you are wrong. You are right on theory, wrong on this particular context.

I said that there is no proof that the Poll represents the will of the Subscribers in general, you haven't brought up any proof. I can't prove a negative, nobody can.... however it seems you can't prove that it represents the will of all subscribers either... and the yellow post saying that polls on the forums aren't always a good indication of what the subscriber player base wants supports my view.

Exactly. They'd be much smarter to actually look at the in game metrics of what all subscribers/players are actually doing in the game.

Actually, as has been pointed out multiple times in this topic, this would be a very flawed method of tracking customer preferences about future content. I spend a lot of time running dailies, but I don't want that to be a priority for development at all (to say nothing of the time spent idling or in queue or grinding in other ways). That's not to say this poll is perfect - it isn't - but your suggestion is going to be heavily skewed.

Exactly. They'd be much smarter to actually look at the in game metrics of what all subscribers/players are actually doing in the game, than assume that a poll of a couple hundred hard core players on the general forums represents everyone in this game.

From the Yellow post it sounds like that's exactly what they do.

the poll only shows the desires of a very small subset of the Subscribers and shouldn't be taken to many anything more.

The poll is a fair and stable representation of what "subscribers" want. Again.. if you ran the same poll in a truly random sampling of true subscribers in game.. I fully expect the results would be similar (within normal uncertainty ranges of polls).

Actually, as has been pointed out multiple times in this topic, this would be a very flawed method of tracking customer preferences about future content. I spend a lot of time running dailies, but I don't want that to be a priority for development at all (to say nothing of the time spent idling or in queue or grinding in other ways). That's not to say this poll is perfect - it isn't - but your suggestion is going to be heavily skewed.

Yeah... tracking in game activity is valuable data, but it does not answer the question that this poll does: what do players want more of.

Using data such as this poll is a good reference for applying analytics on their telemetry data. For example, just for discussion and context:

Poll: 75% or players want more Class stories.

Telemetry Example A: wait... telemetry shows that 75% of player spacebar through their class stories on their first characters..... Poll not supported by data.

Telemetry Example B: hey... telemetry data shows that 95% of players do not spacebar through their class stories... AND these same players roll multiple concurrent classes as well.

My point? The poll is stable and valid feedback from subscribers. It can be checked against telemetry to see if it is validly supported by in game play OR not.

The poll is a fair and stable representation of what "subscribers" want. Again.. if you ran the same poll in a truly random sampling of true subscribers in game.. I fully expect the results would be similar (within normal uncertainty ranges of polls).

"I fully expect the results would be similar" is not proof.

It sounds like you are admitting you have no proof, but you feel that it would. That's fine, I'm not going to argue with what somebody feels, people can feel all sorts of things that are right or wrong.

Again, I'm not saying the poll would have a different result, I'm saying there is no proof that it would have the same result. <----- This may sound the same but it's actually very different. And it seems you have gotten the meaning between the two statements jumbled or think they mean the same thing. They don't.

Side: Do they change the emote icons? I could have sworn I found a "It's a trap" one once, now I can't.

This is not true. Well run polls are good indicators because they follow best practices that lead to results that match reality, IE election polls match the results of elections, however polls that are poorly run don't match with results at all. There is nothing magical about a poll, it's a tool that requires correct usage just like any other tool.

It is true. Polls are what they are and traditionally have always been so. Have their been polls that have been wrong? Yes. Are they the norm? Not in the least.

Could this poll be wrong? Sure. When you line it up with prior polls, internet feedback, game performance, reviews and opinions, and forum posts and topics does it seem inaccurate?

No. But naturally there will folks that will claim it is absolute proof (it is not) or dismiss it out of hand (foolish choice IMO) for self serving reasons most of the time IMO.

"I fully expect the results would be similar" is not proof.

 

It sounds like you are admitting you have no proof, but you feel that it would. That's fine, I'm not going to argue with what somebody feels, people can feel all sorts of things that are right or wrong.

I have proof at a personal level. Of course it's not going to matter to you.. because you want something else. The results in this poll are in fact quite consistent with the chatter I see in general chat in game about things people like and want more of. Since I spend an hour or so each day in non-fleet hubs doing GTN buying and selling..I see what players are talking up and talking down in general chat. The only surprise for me in this poll was that PvP was not a higher % desire.

It is true. Polls are what they are and traditionally have always been so. Have their been polls that have been wrong? Yes. Are they the norm? Not in the least.

If you are actually interested in the topic, I would suggest you look into the science of polling of how people misunderstand them, or have them return really wrong data because the people taking them didn't set them up right. It's actually a pretty interesting topic. Also how wording of a poll can VASTLY swing the results of a poll.

My top 5 list:

1. Class stories

Many of them ended on somewhat of cliffhangers and I would like to see what happens next. Also I''ve read somewhere that the devs find it hard to get all 8 classes a reason to be on the same planet. Wich although haven't stopped them pre-50, I don't get why every new chapter has to be on a new planet. They could jump from planet to planet on already existing planets f.ex.

Also liked the idea posted early in this thread about releasing it periodically, like f.ex telltale does with The Walki8ng dead. For me it doesn't have to be level cap raise either with class story. Can keep the cap raise with the overall story like Makeb was for my sake.

2. Minigames

I would love both podracing, swooprace, pazaak, sabaak an much more. Make Nar Shaddaa the epicentre for gambling and games.

3. Planets

Would love to see some excisting (in star wars lore) planets andtotally new ones. Expansions with several new planets.

4. Companions

Both new ones and develop those we have further

5. Space thingy

I like both pvp and pve so more of both never hurts, therefore i would love for them to include a PVE option for it. Also with this would be cool if they made ops, fps and such where you have to attack in space, and then continue on ground/inside ship/spacestation after f.ex.

I voted for almost all of them but these are my topses

Also, for the discussion going back and forth here, it has been my understanding from all i've seen leaving that i know of, that it was never the class stories that was the reason for them leaving. The reason for them was lack of endgame, or too easy endgame, plus lack of QOL things. In fact, those i've talked with have all said SWTOR has the best levelling experience BECAUSE of the class stories that they had in any mmo.

That is not all players who left probably though.

they could just made polls ingame like they did during beta. this way, every player has a chance to vote and the poll is way more representative.

but this way, bw would clearly know what the players want leaving them in a situation where they cant release stuff noone/not many players want but are easy to made for BW.

I have proof at a personal level. Of course it's not going to matter to you.. because you want something else. The results in this poll are in fact quite consistent with the chatter I see in general chat in game about things people like and want more of. Since I spend an hour or so each day in non-fleet hubs doing GTN buying and selling..I see what players are talking up and talking down in general chat.

So what you are saying is that you have the best form of evidence... Anecdotal Evidence!

It's also funny that you assume that I want something else, when I actually haven't stated what I wanted or didn't want from the poll in the thread. I can see something that supports my personal bias and still recognize that the source might be biased.

From my listening in on Fleet Conversations, I have gathered that the Topic of Obama is a big deal in the Game and the Dev's need to get something in game to reflect that.

If you are actually interested in the topic, I would suggest you look into the science of polling of how people misunderstand them, or have them return really wrong data because the people taking them didn't set them up right. It's actually a pretty interesting topic. Also how wording of a poll can VASTLY swing the results of a poll.

Look. I am aware of your point and the wisdom of it. But you are dismissing this poll. I am saying it can't simply be dismissed. You and I have posted reasons why we feel the way we do.

I feel you are wrong with some contentions you make about this specific poll, you seem to feel I am wrong, and that fine. It is, after all, only our opinions. I don't intend to try and demean your opinion...only point out that we are not in agreement.

Look. I am aware of your point and the wisdom of it. But you are dismissing this poll. I am saying it can't simply be dismissed. You and I have posted reasons why we feel the way we do.

 

I feel you are wrong with some contentions you make about this specific poll, you seem to feel I am wrong, and that fine. It is, after all, only our opinions. I don't intend to try and demean your opinion...only point out that we are not in agreement.

It's fine that we don't agree. I'm not dismissing the poll, I'm just feel that people shouldn't read more into it then what it is actually capable of producing. Again, I filled out the poll, and it's main high level scores match mine pretty closely. I can see something that matches my opinions, and still doubt the science behind it.