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comparing sorcs and snipers


wwkingms

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Healers AC will never ever get an execution ability. It is balanced. Since healers have the stats as good as DPSers, an execution ability will be way too OP for them. Imagine you can be a full healer and be able to fire 5000 damage executes. This would be way too much for a healer specced. Sorry but executes dont belong to a baseline abilities of healer AC.

 

Please stop saying how force speed is useless. More balls have been scored with force speed than have been stopped by legshots. Its an incredibly useful ability, dont try to make it look like force speed is a liability.

 

 

No sorc is going to be carrying the ball, those scores are on sins/shadows.

 

We can't cleanse a sniper root, our cc is next to useless, unlike a snipers.

 

Hell it's okay for for warriors and agents to chain mez groups for nigh on 14+ secs with their instant long AoE mezzes. Compare that to whirlwind, single target, with a cast. Instant on a dot spec..... And even the one for extra targets doesn't work in wzs.

 

Hmm, light armour? No effective method of keeping melee way. And no "oh cr@p!" defensive CD, even as the supposed force masters, we can't use the force to protect us with shroud, nope that goes to our much more useful sin cousins.

 

And let's be honest here, ranked team has one ranged dps spot open, for a sorc or sniper, who are they going to pick? They are going to pick the sniper. Orbital strike alone is huge in node denial, and it actually hurts when in it, unlike Force Storm. (So yeah another plus incidentally for scoundrel/op healer over sorc/sage btw)

Edited by Chemic_al
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When I do rateds with my guild I'm very often the only ranged DPS for the group. I'm capable of getting 4-6k crits with Deathfield when I use this spec:

 

Madness (Deathfield Primary spec)

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201G0bZbZcMfRsrkRfz.2

 

Since it can hit up to three targets I'd say thats pretty bursty. Having the ability to do that from ranged gives you an advantage. But since I prefer the Lightning spec over Madness I use this for most ranked. The amount of collateral damage I put out from Chain lightning procs can be devastating.

 

Lightning Hybrid

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#201ZbsMrdRr0zZcMcRsMz.2

 

Sorcerers have superior mobility compared to snipers. Any sorc that is standing out in the open taking hits and neglecting to move is doing it wrong. You should be moving and repositioning yourself 90% of the time.

Edited by Deimosmp
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I understand that sorcerers are frustrated, but they should also be reasonable in their demands.

 

First of all, compared to sorcs we have never been a FOTM OP class. Our weakness are well established so that many classes can exploit that. The warzone maps layout is designed in such a way that no sniper can have 360 degree unobstructed field of view 35m range from him. In any scenario we have fo deal with enemies that can completely negate our damage by simply walking behind a rock.

 

If you are at full HP, rooting then explsive probe + ambush + ft will never kill you single handedly. So dont bring roots as the ultimate hard counter to your LoSing.

 

Our cover pulse is different from yours for many reasons: We need to be in cover, we cannot turn in any direction while in cover, so conal would be stupid. We have a baseline root, because we have no tools to disengage from a battle. We are there until we die or we kill. Our cover pulse is on 30min CD compared to your ridiculously low 20s CD. Compared to you we have no damage component at all, while you can use it to knock stealthers out of stealth.

 

People that played beta said that snipers had no interrupt immunity, which made the class a complete joke incapable to do crap.

 

Since you can negate our damage by LoSing us, why should you be able to win in a straight direct fight? What point would be to play a sniper if they didnt have a specific field where they would excel at? We have been given specific tools to win DPS race scenarios. This is our strong point. Entrench, burst those are all necessary components.

 

Healers AC will never ever get an execution ability. It is balanced. Since healers have the stats as good as DPSers, an execution ability will be way too OP for them. Imagine you can be a full healer and be able to fire 5000 damage executes. This would be way too much for a healer specced. Sorry but executes dont belong to a baseline abilities of healer AC.

 

Please stop saying how force speed is useless. More balls have been scored with force speed than have been stopped by legshots. Its an incredibly useful ability, dont try to make it look like force speed is a liability.

 

There are things that should be improved foR DPS sorcerers (healer sorcs deserve nothing), but these things should certainly not be changed for DPS sorcs for the sake of balance:

  1. No root immunity or root cleansing. This is your counter and you have to master dealing with it. Same as we have to deal with stealthers.
  2. No burst for madness. You can have mobility, burst, range, pick only 2.
  3. No baseline execution ability. The only possible place for it can be very high in lightning tree.
  4. No baseline root on overload. Its in a perfect place and it needs to stay there. Madness doesnt need extra root.

 

Now come up with a list of changes for dps sorcs that are not listed above.

 

 

i personally think madness is fine i do well with it we have 3 cc plus knockback and bubble, madness plays very close to lethality sniper but less dmg and more roots

 

that being said lightning needs help all our abilities are shutdown against melee, we cant cleanse tech dmg and we can't win a 35 m or less fight against snipers nerf to stun made sure of that. my ideas are up over all dmg add knockback to thunder blast like ambush and up the double proc distrubance (sorry cant remeber sorcs name atm) from 33% to 100%. and our immunty to intertupts should be to all effects that should be enough imho.

toe to toe with a sniper at 35m dps war is not unreasonable to ask for and being able to strageticlly fight off melee is more than reasonable is logical.

Edited by warstory
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We have one skill that is useful and that's stun bubble which is getting nerfed. There are classes such as sniper who can hit us for 6k fully gear and we hit them for 4k ? Does that make any sort of sense to anyone. I have played assassin all 3 spec and owned, jug all 3 specs and owned, sniper all 3 spec and owned. Sorc madness and owned but lightning...worst spec in game
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Another idea I just turn cloud mind into a 8 sec cloak maybe then we could get a cast off lol

 

I was thinking about cloud mind the other day, it's got absolutely no use in PvP, and to be honest even when I use it in PvE it doesn't seem to do anything. I wasn't exactly thinking along the lines of a cloak, just would be nice to give it a proper use that's all.

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Sorcerers have light armour and only 1 defensive ability, there's no arguing that they are easy targets.

They can achieve very high damage numbers with madness, but those numbers mean nothing if you can't kill anyone.

Sorcerers also have to consume health to regain energy, when classes like sniper already get increased energy gain from marksmanship tree + an ability to restore energy.

 

Sorcerers are the worst class in game in my opinion, and sadly it's the class I enjoy most.

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Comparing Sorc's and Snipers isn't goin to get you very far. One is a pure damage class(sniper) and the other one isn't. Comparing a merc and sorc would be more viable or even an operative. Notice the pattern, all the spec's that can heal have gimped DPS trees.

 

If you look at it Sniper's and Mara's are the most complete classes right now, full of OCD's and DCD's, just enough of both to get er done. After that the 3 tanking class's PT,Sin,Jugg are right behind those except for that smash are pretty well balanced. Then you get the 3 healing classes at the bottom which are all lacking.

 

As far as i'm concerned the game is pretty well balanced. As far as nerfs i'd say a tweak to smash is really all that needs to be done. Buff's i'd say the 3 healing classes need a bit of work not much just slight buff's.

 

Give a dps merc the skill where he can't be interrupted(even maybe stunned as well) for 15-20 secs and throw it on a 1 min cooldown.

 

Sorc probably just needs their overall damage upped 3-5% per ability(they're not there to nuke people they are a utility class).

 

Operative now this can be pretty touchy. PvP there damage is fine, if put in the right hands. Pretty sure they have the quickest most unstoppable burst as it is(this coming from a PT). They need some movement buffs... maybe an instant 'teleport' to friendly target usable only from stealth....

 

not really bought on my last idea either... they either need an escape or some way to sustain dps

Edited by wetslampigduex
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We have one skill that is useful and that's stun bubble which is getting nerfed. There are classes such as sniper who can hit us for 6k fully gear and we hit them for 4k ? Does that make any sort of sense to anyone. I have played assassin all 3 spec and owned, jug all 3 specs and owned, sniper all 3 spec and owned. Sorc madness and owned but lightning...worst spec in game
'

 

Well it makes sense to me seeing as you can produce a 5k heal with a 2.5 sec cast. A sniper cant.

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You can easily compare The likes of Juggernauts to Sorcerers because they have 2 seperate uses in PvP, both have DPS trees. If you then go on to compare said Juggernaut and Sorcerer you can clearly see that they are completely different. Juggernauts get an automatic crit smash that deals like 5ks in poor gear and is an AoE which can be used very often. They also get several defensive abilitys. Sorcerers get a lame Death Field that only effects 3 targets and I hit like 4ks in full WH. I also only get 1 defensive cooldown and light armour.

 

'

 

Well it makes sense to me seeing as you can produce a 5k heal with a 2.5 sec cast. A sniper cant.

 

in those 2.5 seconds you can easily use an instant interrupt and a 6k ambush.

Edited by Jayshames
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There's no comparison other than that they do damage from range.

 

the damage numbers on the scoreboard at the end of warzones are completely worthless in telling the tale. I've heard arguments about sorcs being able to put up big overall numbers, and while this is true, the raw damage output can be great, snipers are, for the most part, crushing sorcs numbers single target.

 

tab dotting, storm->cl, and other forms of sorc number inflation don't yield results in realtime combat. Omitting personal utility and survivability, which, having played both classes, is slightly in the sniper's favor in the current metagame, the sniper is the better ranged dps.

 

However.

 

in terms of dynamic ability to support and be a mobile damage platform, the sorc has it hands down. This is the reason I continue to play the class. I can outplay a great many people to a point where the class disparity fades, but against equals, gear and skillwise, the sorc is just not there. If I play you perfectly, and you make 4 mistakes, you should not be able to win a heads up battle. This isn't speaking to a sorc vs sniper face off per se. However, I didn't roll sorc to be a support class. I wanted to be ranged dps, not the proverbial straw that breaks the camel's back.

 

In the end, everyone's just waiting for smash to be gutted before we start thinking about balancing everyone else. Who cares who's the better ranged class now when melee has everyone beat in terms of damage, survivability, and mobility, the big 3 factors for pvp effectiveness. The knight/warrior class archetype is the star wars patron saint as it were, but why develop a pvp system if you're not going to even bother to balance it.

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i feel the sorcs biggest counter is the PT

 

ive found no way to counter them, if im correct they have 2 stuns and 2 abilities which can crit for 5k (td & rail), one of them cause be used twice in 2 gcd's, they have 2 more abilities which crit for almost 3.5k on us (rocket punch & flame burst)

 

the dmg is instant, un-interruptable, un-cleansible, and from medium to long range. There snare is passively applied, they generally have more hp, more dmg recution from armor and have a dmg reduction cooldown as well as small Heal over time on cooldown

 

now i dont play madness so idk if its different, but i can beat GOOD assassins, marauders, juggs, snipers(with los) etc but i cant scratch a PT that has gotten the jump on me

 

it just re assures me that our class could a long defensive cooldown for stick situations, every other class gets a few and on moderately short cd

 

i feel to do well as a sorc requires much more thought and skill than the other dps pvp classes right now

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