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What is the point of hardmode OPs? Or anything passed VET FPs? You can accomplish BIS gear by grinding VET for tech frags. Why would you not have anything worth while to be gained clearing the hardest content in the game? Correct me if any of this is wrong, but what i've been told is the best gear for you is the tech frag gear and you don't get anything special from the hardest difficulty OP. Why have it in the game then? How else are you supposed to get 8+ people dedicated enough to spend hours wiping and progressing if not for the better gear that generally looks much better than the casual gear you get from farming easy instances...

 

This seems to be a really odd model to shape your game off of. How are you supposed to hold someones attention longer than a week when thats all the time you need to get completely BIS across the board?

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I'm a progression raider. I don't raid to get gear, I raid because I enjoy it. My progression team is awesome, and beating something we haven't beaten before feels great, especially if it's something we've struggled with, and wiped on a lot. :D First kills are special, and the longer it takes to get it, the sweeter it tastes when the cheevo pops.

 

Unfortunately we are running out of new things to kill, cheevos to get. We've almost downed Apex Vanguard in HM, and then all "new" content we have left is Gods NiM. After that? I don't know. Probably some mount and title farming, getting survival cheevos, swapping roles and classes etc.

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Progression raiding is what I seek,however, when you have a system that doesn't reward you for your troubles, whereas you can just spam the VET FPs, its extraordinarily hard to attempt to find or start a group for the content. As well as the drive, I love progression raiding but I also enjoy being rewarded with items other players won't have available to them because they don't raid.
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I too raid primarily for the achievement of a clear, however, once you've downed a boss there are no rewards for repeat clears.

 

We are 5/6 HM Dxun working on Apex Vanguard, and since the first 5 bosses offer us no reward for clearing anymore, this has made those fights feel more like a chore we just want to get through as quick as we can so we can get to Apex progression. There is a reason that many guilds progressing on Apex grab lockouts from players who cleared bosses 1-5 earlier in the week, because skipping those bosses is more beneficial than re-clearing them.

 

In the past, raid bosses had the value of top-end gear upgrades for players, so clearing farm bosses came with long term incentive and reward, now bosses are a one-and-done affair. Once Apex is down I see no real reason to step back in to HM Dxun.

 

So yes, progression raiders should raid for the challenge and the achievement and not just the gear, but the truth is that it is gear that keeps raiders going into content after that initial challenge has been overcome.

Edited by Terro_Fett
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I've been in NiM raids for most of swtor, half of it in 16m which has different challenges to raiding 8m.

 

Many of the operations we ever did were about loot one way or another. Even if it came down to gearing someones 5th alt vanguard we'd do the operations for it.

 

Sure at the start of new content there would be a period of doing it for "first" or at least appearing on a list. After that it was something you did to max your gear, unavailable through lesser content.

 

Once people started completing their gear sets you'd see people not turning up anymore. People who stuck around after gear completion were obviously considered more valued guild members. At any rate this is usually where guild recruitment had to be stepped up to fill in people dropping out.

 

Loot reasons have been comprehensively murdered. You get BiS from doing the lowest level of content with zero organisation. You don't even get unique skinned gear anymore let alone the best stat gear from Master mode.

 

The material rewards of endgame operations have been chucked in the trash in favour of content accessible to the least organised and skilled player that can pay a sub.

 

There has never been such low rewards for organising groups for the hardest PVE content. You get a cheevo and a title for the first time and then you're expected to make up your own incentive to do it again because the game has nothing for you.

 

Story modes are another matter. Lots of those get done for conquest because that's all you need. But that's story mode, achievable by inexperienced players picked up on fleet.

Edited by Gyronamics
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It mainly now just comes down to what you want to do and what your friends also want to do.

 

I used to do ops everyday back in shadow of revan because it was what my guild used to love doing as we got not only good gear but was also a way for us to bond and just have some fun and show newer members the older nightmares to see if they are up to snuff to do the newer ops in nightmare or hardmode since the raids in shadow of revan didn't have a nightmare mode at the time.

 

Nowadays their really isn't a whole lot of drive to do ops beyond storymode if it is gear that drives you unless you are after the sets in duxx which honestly is quite sad and i've actually been asking myself why i still play this game if i'm not even doing the content that was super important to me anymore but again that is me i don't know you so it might be differant.

 

6.0 they said was going to revive the group content drought we had with a drive for ops since we didn't have newer ones for ages but as it turns out they did the opisite of that supprise supprise and now even less players are doing them since again their is no drive to do them, their is still some older shells and mounts that can only be gotten in ops so their is still that but other then that and the duxx exclusive armor sets their is no drive to do them.

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IMO Bioware could have made the current system work by simply putting ilvl caps on certain content, for example they could have done something roughly like this:

 

Veteran FPs provide gear up to ilvl 290

Master FPs/SM Ops provide gear up to ilvl 300

Legacy HM Ops provide gear up to 304

Legacy NiM/HM Dxun provide 306

 

The difference in gear between people who only run FPs or SM Ops and those who do top-tier content would still be small, only 6 ilvls at most, so it would still maintain the promise that everyone can get good gear playing their way. Honestly the difference between 300 and 306 gear is functionally pretty small, but it would at least provide endgame players some level of gear incentive.

Edited by Terro_Fett
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IMO Bioware could have made the current system work by simply putting ilvl caps on certain content, for example they could have done something roughly like this:

 

Veteran FPs provide gear up to ilvl 290

Master FPs/SM Ops provide gear up to ilvl 300

Legacy HM Ops provide gear up to 304

Legacy NiM/HM Dxun provide 306

 

The difference in gear between people who only run FPs or SM Ops and those who do top-tier content would still be small, only 6 ilvls at most, so it would still maintain the promise that everyone can get good gear playing their way. Honestly the difference between 300 and 306 gear is functionally pretty small, but it would at least provide endgame players some level of gear incentive.

 

the difference between 300 and 306 is gigantic due to the veterans edge stacks.. in old content its round about 4k dps.. which is roughly 33%.....

 

and if they rework that, hey need to rebalance all ops.

 

and i dont get the point where someone said "nowadays people prefer lockouts".. it has always been like that.

only with specific guaranteed drops, there would be any reason to do certain bosses you already killed. and thats only when someone is missing something specific.. but lets be honest, if you decide to do dxun you are already BIS so there is actually little reason to do it for gear.

 

theres one thing they could do to make farmig the dxun exclusive sets less annoying and that would be, if they remove the rng set drops from veteran mode and give the bosses a chance to drop a "dxun gear token", which allows you to buy a piece of your choice from a special vendor at the fleet.

the chance to drop that token should increase with every boss and should end with the Apex having a guaranteed drop of said token.

 

but they wont change it anyway.

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What is the point of hardmode OPs? Or anything passed VET FPs?

Fun and challenge?

What's the point of playing the game at all, if all you're after are the shinies? 😍

 

EDIT - Also, I've been playing SWTOR for years, but until recently, I've been in dead guilds. I've only just recently started doing any OPs.

I realize it must be the same old, same old, for people who have done lots of OPs but for some people - especially new players - it's all just fun.

 

EDIT #2 - I did DXUN story mode last night with a guild-ish group. I'd have to say I was disappointed with the lack of rewards after the hours of slog**. All I got was a couple of materials satchels. I think a bonus set armor piece was dropped once, but I didn't win the role for it.

The rest was the usual pile of 306, and below, crap that I no longer need. Some form of shiny would indeed have been nice.

 

** Slog, but a fun slog. It was the first Dxun for many of us, so there were a number of wipes and restarts. But given the lack of any reward worth going after, I'm not sure I'd want to do it more than twice more. 🤔

Edited by JediQuaker
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The point of this system is that you can play whatever you enjoy and progress your gear.

If you don't like to run operations, you don't have to. What is questionable is needing to gate progression behind operations forcing everyone into them.

 

And tbh Dxun drops exclusive tier sets and tacticals. That in itself is already pretty annoying to someone that doesnt have a raid group.

AKA, some people are so engrained on the progression system popularised by WoW that they cant open their mind when a game tries to give you the choice of having fun doing what you want.

No one is forced to do FP's either. At most for 2 days if you want to rush your ilvl.

Edited by Nemmar
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The point is that Operations are the hardest content in the game and they should drop the highest ilvl gear. The whole reason for a progression system is that it is that you progress towards getting the gear, It has always been get to max level, do flashpoints to get the basic gear, do storymode ops to get the gear to do vet ops, do vets to get gear to do mastermode ops, get BiS gear from mastermode boom you are done.

 

The reason why alot of people hate this new system is that you can't go anywhere with it and now that it is in the game they can't remove it without pissing off all the casuals that loved getting gear that they are never going to need for the content that they do, That was the whole point of the ops gear it was gear designed to do operations if you don't do them you don't need the gear but people wanted the gear because it was shiny and better then what they had but they didn't either have the time or the want to get into a guild and do a raid to get it.

 

Now you don't even have to unless you want the stuff out of dxun and i will give my respect to bioware for at least keeping something in a operation but seriously this new system blows and people are going to get burned out because their is going to be no drive to do anything i've been back for nearly a full month and guess what this new system blows, no one ever wants to do anything and the few times i get one of the newer flashpoints everyone just leaves because it isn't lootstation. What are they going to do to fix this i don't know but if they don't do it soon they arn't going to have alot of hardcore players left in the game.

Edited by Darkchip
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What is the point of hardmode OPs? Or anything passed VET FPs? You can accomplish BIS gear by grinding VET for tech frags. Why would you not have anything worth while to be gained clearing the hardest content in the game? Correct me if any of this is wrong, but what i've been told is the best gear for you is the tech frag gear and you don't get anything special from the hardest difficulty OP. Why have it in the game then? How else are you supposed to get 8+ people dedicated enough to spend hours wiping and progressing if not for the better gear that generally looks much better than the casual gear you get from farming easy instances...

 

This seems to be a really odd model to shape your game off of. How are you supposed to hold someones attention longer than a week when thats all the time you need to get completely BIS across the board?

 

Returning player here! Gear should never be a goal. One of the reasons why I stopped playing SWTOR (among many) is over the complicated and super gated gearing system. People will not sub longer or play harder content to get gear. The other way round.

 

Having said that, harder content rewards should come in 3 forms:

1. Unique cosmetics. We have some of that, but there should be more.

2. Rare crafting mats.

3. Credits + maybe high level gear.

 

However, doing a gear gating should never be the case. Wither it is HM and MM ops or PvP.

Edited by Ottoattack
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In the past as in pre 4.0 when there was a some semblance of progression raiding in the game, you geared by doing progressively harder content with BiS coming as an after reward for completing content. Now, as BiS not only is it nothing much in value but the gear itself and scaling trivialize any of the content checks in the game. The irony of Gods being still an actual Op that is of NiM quality is due to a bug right now. It’s essentially farm for people that can actual play at a NiM level right now, the same farm since 2015 for some. Now whether you enjoy that is up to the person but Swtor is not a progression raiding game anymore. You are already over-geared before setting foot an instance. How can it be challenging if you are already BiS? NiM raids are for the most part glorified HM content. But this process has been ongoing since 4.0, and is in reflection of the raiding population in the game currently. If you are in Swtor for a competitive challenging PvP or PvE you are going to be disappointed. It’s a casual game and best played as one. Edited by FerkWork
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I would be happy if raids dropped rare crafting mats. I have a lot of alts to gear, and alternate sets of gear for each alt. But raids don't even give good money either.

 

I run NiM raids and HM Dxun several times throughout the week, yet I never win a set piece or tactical. This is because they never drop, and are never the piece you want. The only good thing you get from raids now are tech fragments, titles, and the occasional mount.

Edited by Rion_Starkiller
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IMO Bioware could have made the current system work by simply putting ilvl caps on certain content, for example they could have done something roughly like this:

 

Veteran FPs provide gear up to ilvl 290

Master FPs/SM Ops provide gear up to ilvl 300

Legacy HM Ops provide gear up to 304

Legacy NiM/HM Dxun provide 306

 

The difference in gear between people who only run FPs or SM Ops and those who do top-tier content would still be small, only 6 ilvls at most, so it would still maintain the promise that everyone can get good gear playing their way. Honestly the difference between 300 and 306 gear is functionally pretty small, but it would at least provide endgame players some level of gear incentive.

 

The issue with that suggestion however is that currently PVE gear is what is used in PVP. If BiS gear was gated behind NiM Ops it would force people who want to be competitive to join progression raiding teams, or play their preferred mode of gameplay (PVP) at a disadvantage.

 

That isn't to say that Bioware shouldn't consider locking BiS behind NiM runs, just that if they do it has to be paired with Expertise gear (or some other form of PVP gearing) being reintroduced to the game.

 

Since Bioware is unlikely to bring back Expertise gear my pick would be to introduce new cosmetic shinies as NiM drops. Unique mounts, titles, flairs, crystals, armor sets ect that can't be obtained elsewhere. Not unlike how Ranked PVP has some new rewards each season.

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The point now are really only the achievements and the drops/titles. Like many here said, once you have done the new ops on SM and HM, 8 and 16 man, with all bonus achievements, there really is no reason to run it anymore. You can run old ops for titles, achievements and mounts, but the special gear has been removed and can be gotten elswhere now.

 

This was a topic for long and the players, who wanted to get the best gear in the game by playing any content, won this discussion. Bioware made it so that no matter what you do, you will eventually get the best gear. I have to admit that the rate at which we are getting content now is much faster than before, yet it still isnt fast enough when its only about running the content once for the achievements. Hard to say. Fact is that you can get top end game gear just by playing GSF and farming fragments!

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The fact is that with this system no matter how much content they pump out it will never be fast enough to keep people happy doing things, This is one of the reasons why alot of the older MMO players said this gearing system was not only a bad idea but would be disastrous for the game.

 

People are being done with toons in less then a week getting their BIS sets, mods, tacticals and amplfiers then having nothing new and interesting to do. The older ops will only intertain people for so long before they get bored of them or have nothing to gain from them anymore and then what are they ment to do? Just keep running hammer station for the millionth time?

 

This gearing system sounds good on paper but is really bad for the longterm health of the game and anyone with half a brain can see that but again greed won out and people that have never even set foot in ops can now get BIS so fast now that it's insane.

 

With the old system it took time to get things and it could take months to get your BIS, you had not only goals but you had a drive to go and do things now next to no one wants to do anything since again their is no drive to do anything.

Edited by Darkchip
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This thread needs way more attention.

 

I played SWTOR from day 1 up until about 2015 and I ran every op with an amazing raid team up until Shadow of Revan. At that point we just got burned out and everyone quit, then the disaster that was KoTFE and KoTET made me want to stay even further away from this game. So I hear that 6.0 made a lot of changes and here I am checking it all out.

 

So let me start out with this: I an a consular main. I have 4 sages (dps only cause I suck at healing) and 7 shadows (both tank and dps). this toons are for the specific purpose of having enough alts to run entire groups through full ops to get the gear they needed. It used to be that you could run DF and DP and get a full set of gear for a single toon, so I leveled enough shadows to fill a single tank spot and run people who didn't do prog raids through SM DF DP so that could at least get a set or gear. Ir was rewarding to help other people, and it was fun building comraderie among players.

 

So I come back in to 6.0... and I thought to myself... how am I going to gear all these shadows... turns out with this new gearing system, I was able to lvl one sage to 75 and get him to 306 in less than a week, send that gear to a shadow once they hit 75, and just have them geared in a day, next day another shadow, and so on. In about two weeks I have 11 toons in full 306 gear, and that includes tank and dps gear for all my shadows, an dI work a full time 40 hour job and only get 2-4 hours in the evenings and maybe 5 on the weekends, so it's not like this is me sitting in front of SWTOR for 16 hours a day grinding out toons and gear.

 

Now with that said, yes, gearing is super easy now. Was it fun and enjoyable to lvl and gear all those toons so fast? Absolutely not. it was the worst experience I have ever had in this game. It consisted of running more Hammer Station vet mode than I have ever run in my life. I did run an SnV, and I thought perfect, I will get the gear I need... nope... only the last boss dropped gear... I thought it was a bug at first, surely this cannot be right... why would anyone run any op if none of the bosses drop any gear, and the last boss only a chance to drop a gear piece??? So more vet hammer station... to infinity and beyond.

 

I mean honestly, did the devs really think that the player base would just run every random FP over and over, and not find the easiest quickest path? Do you not understand the player base that much? when you create content that forces the player to platform there way around a planet just to find a +2 endurance datacron that is hidden in some obscure location, do you really think those same players that accept that challenge to do things in odd and obscure ways are not going to do the same thing when it comes to gearing with this ridiculous system?

 

So yes, I agree with everyone else in this thread. This system is not it. I commend Bioware for trying something different, but this is not it. What I would have liked to have seen and what would have made more sense, is something along lines: Since every playable character had to spend 5 years in cryosleep due to the KoTET storyline, it would have made more sense to use that as more than just the lame story line that it was, but rather have your character actually be effected by that and introduce a whole new system with new skills, new sets, new individual story lines, new things to learn all over again; essentially rebooting the whole game, but that opportunity was missed, and now we have this **** storm to deal with.

 

Gear sets that are just meh... the old gear sets played into the actual skills and rotations of the class, these gear sets are more like ehhhh, you can use this one, but it's not that great, or you could use this other one but it's also not hat great... really you could use any of them because they are not that class specific... as a balance sage... why would I use force speed in order to buff my force skills??? 50% of my rotation is me standing still... throwing pebbles... telekenetic throw is THE highest damaging ability in the rotation... and you want me to use force speed ... so I can stand still... and get a dps boost from one channel of telekenetic throw??? Seriously... who came up with this crap? You're killing me Smalls!!!!

 

I get that people complained because they couldn't get the BIS gear from raid because they didn't have a raid group to run with that could get it, or someone in the pug group they joined left cause lockout and they couldn't finish it, or someone needed all of it and won it... well guess what? you actually already fixed that issue. The way gear drops now is nice... everyone has their drops... and only mats are rolled on... perfect... all you had to do was implement that, and bam, gear drops fixed. Now no one else can randomly roll on your gear piece that drops on a boss... and yeah sure, maybe you add in the random aspect too, so every time I run KP I don't get a drop that is just for me, maybe its a random chance, like greater than 50% chance, not a 0.00000001% chance on every boss. You make SM raids drop rate fairly high so pgs and casuals don't feel left out, but its lower lvl gear, BIS, but Tier 1 BIS, HM drops Tier 2 BIS, and NiM Teir 3 BIS, but HM and NiM are usual guaranteed drops, one per boss. If you want the better gear, you got to earn it, that is just how the world works. This participation trophy gearing is not it. it's not fun. it's not rewarding. it's not enjoyable. and it will not bring in more subscribers, do not fool yourselves or your stakeholders.

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This thread needs way more attention.

 

I played SWTOR from day 1 up until about 2015 and I ran every op with an amazing raid team up until Shadow of Revan. At that point we just got burned out and everyone quit, then the disaster that was KoTFE and KoTET made me want to stay even further away from this game. So I hear that 6.0 made a lot of changes and here I am checking it all out.

 

So let me start out with this: I an a consular main. I have 4 sages (dps only cause I suck at healing) and 7 shadows (both tank and dps). this toons are for the specific purpose of having enough alts to run entire groups through full ops to get the gear they needed. It used to be that you could run DF and DP and get a full set of gear for a single toon, so I leveled enough shadows to fill a single tank spot and run people who didn't do prog raids through SM DF DP so that could at least get a set or gear. Ir was rewarding to help other people, and it was fun building comraderie among players.

 

So I come back in to 6.0... and I thought to myself... how am I going to gear all these shadows... turns out with this new gearing system, I was able to lvl one sage to 75 and get him to 306 in less than a week, send that gear to a shadow once they hit 75, and just have them geared in a day, next day another shadow, and so on. In about two weeks I have 11 toons in full 306 gear, and that includes tank and dps gear for all my shadows, an dI work a full time 40 hour job and only get 2-4 hours in the evenings and maybe 5 on the weekends, so it's not like this is me sitting in front of SWTOR for 16 hours a day grinding out toons and gear.

 

Now with that said, yes, gearing is super easy now. Was it fun and enjoyable to lvl and gear all those toons so fast? Absolutely not. it was the worst experience I have ever had in this game. It consisted of running more Hammer Station vet mode than I have ever run in my life. I did run an SnV, and I thought perfect, I will get the gear I need... nope... only the last boss dropped gear... I thought it was a bug at first, surely this cannot be right... why would anyone run any op if none of the bosses drop any gear, and the last boss only a chance to drop a gear piece??? So more vet hammer station... to infinity and beyond.

 

I mean honestly, did the devs really think that the player base would just run every random FP over and over, and not find the easiest quickest path? Do you not understand the player base that much? when you create content that forces the player to platform there way around a planet just to find a +2 endurance datacron that is hidden in some obscure location, do you really think those same players that accept that challenge to do things in odd and obscure ways are not going to do the same thing when it comes to gearing with this ridiculous system?

 

So yes, I agree with everyone else in this thread. This system is not it. I commend Bioware for trying something different, but this is not it. What I would have liked to have seen and what would have made more sense, is something along lines: Since every playable character had to spend 5 years in cryosleep due to the KoTET storyline, it would have made more sense to use that as more than just the lame story line that it was, but rather have your character actually be effected by that and introduce a whole new system with new skills, new sets, new individual story lines, new things to learn all over again; essentially rebooting the whole game, but that opportunity was missed, and now we have this **** storm to deal with.

 

Gear sets that are just meh... the old gear sets played into the actual skills and rotations of the class, these gear sets are more like ehhhh, you can use this one, but it's not that great, or you could use this other one but it's also not hat great... really you could use any of them because they are not that class specific... as a balance sage... why would I use force speed in order to buff my force skills??? 50% of my rotation is me standing still... throwing pebbles... telekenetic throw is THE highest damaging ability in the rotation... and you want me to use force speed ... so I can stand still... and get a dps boost from one channel of telekenetic throw??? Seriously... who came up with this crap? You're killing me Smalls!!!!

 

I get that people complained because they couldn't get the BIS gear from raid because they didn't have a raid group to run with that could get it, or someone in the pug group they joined left cause lockout and they couldn't finish it, or someone needed all of it and won it... well guess what? you actually already fixed that issue. The way gear drops now is nice... everyone has their drops... and only mats are rolled on... perfect... all you had to do was implement that, and bam, gear drops fixed. Now no one else can randomly roll on your gear piece that drops on a boss... and yeah sure, maybe you add in the random aspect too, so every time I run KP I don't get a drop that is just for me, maybe its a random chance, like greater than 50% chance, not a 0.00000001% chance on every boss. You make SM raids drop rate fairly high so pgs and casuals don't feel left out, but its lower lvl gear, BIS, but Tier 1 BIS, HM drops Tier 2 BIS, and NiM Teir 3 BIS, but HM and NiM are usual guaranteed drops, one per boss. If you want the better gear, you got to earn it, that is just how the world works. This participation trophy gearing is not it. it's not fun. it's not rewarding. it's not enjoyable. and it will not bring in more subscribers, do not fool yourselves or your stakeholders.

 

I mean, this is utterly ridiculous. You got 306 gear and you think you already have the best gear in the game.

I love this gearing system. I have never played so many of my toons. Playing specs i never thought id bother trying. Having fun doing whatever content i feel like and progressing my gear. Yes, because after ilvl you still got to get set bonuses, tacticals, augments and amps.

 

I will repeat. Some people are so engrained in the wow system they cannot fathom playing for fun, rather than a power carrot. Very sad.

With that said, i agree that exclusive cosmetics would be a good reward to make NiM more appealing, but i honestly really love this gearing system that gives me the freedom to do what i want rather than force me to raid X or Y. Never had so much fun in an mmo in a long time. I always got another toon to gear up or spec to try to add variety and flavor to what i feel like doing. Be it pvp or pve.

The only part that is boring is the vertical progression you do once. It kind of forces one to indeed spam FP's to keep up. That part wasnt fun and actually should be even easier cause the real gearing comes after that.

 

I will also tell you something. You miss being needed, cause running the same OP over and over with the same class sounds incredibly boring. I cant understand how you'd miss that. Now those people that you used to help are self suficient. You can focus on playing and doing whatever ops and role/class you want. This gearing system gives options, it doesnt take them away.

Edited by Nemmar
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*sigh* i'm so sick of hearing the same argument of it's nice to get the best gear for doing next to nothing because that is all it bloody is, it's not i can get gear doing what i want it's i can get gear for doing the minimum amount of work to get it.

 

Tell me i'm wrong and explain to me why you think you should get the best gear in the game for doing anything other then the hardest content in the game that you need to gear to do. People say i don't understand why people think the WoW way is best, well i will answer that because not only is it not just the WoW it's the RPG way, you know the genre of game we are playing.

 

The whole point of a RPG is to lvl up then gear up your toon and you get that gear for overcoming challanges in this case OPS so that you can take on even harder challanges in the future, if you arn't doing OPS you don't need the bloody gear, the gear you get outta flashpoints, missions and crafting is more then enough to do all the content in the game besides Ranked PvP which has it's own progression path and OPS which has it's own progression path and rewards.

 

The reason why i am saying this is because it is becoming a trend that is not only hurting gameing but i honestly fear it could destory it as well, People are willing to spend money to skip content in Single player games now like WHY the challange was why we played game and now people seem to ether just forget that or not care because it's not what they want and don't give a rats *** about what other people enjoy just to please themselfs and that is what is happening to MMO's, Their are lots of people that work hard to get their BIS and deserve that gear and not only that if you ask them for help 95% of them would give advice and help, the amount of times i've seen people back in SoR that would help GF OPS groups learn the fights and help them with advice on their classes was honestly one of the best things i've seen in a MMO in a long time and that is gone now because they are gone with these changes.

 

This type of gearing system is both good and bad for multiable reasons but it is most bad.

 

The good: it is really quick.

 

The Bad: it devalues the gear, it makes doing harder content unapealing because you can get from anywhere, next to no one does OPS anyway, makes running outta content faster and causes burnout super fast.

Edited by Darkchip
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*sigh* i'm so sick of hearing the same argument of it's nice to get the best gear for doing next to nothing because that is all it bloody is, it's not i can get gear doing what i want it's i can get gear for doing the minimum amount of work to get it.

 

Tell me i'm wrong and explain to me why you think you should get the best gear in the game for doing anything other then the hardest content in the game that you need to gear to do. People say i don't understand why people think the WoW way is best, well i will answer that because not only is it not just the WoW it's the RPG way, you know the genre of game we are playing.

 

The whole point of a RPG is to lvl up then gear up your toon and you get that gear for overcoming challanges in this case OPS so that you can take on even harder challanges in the future, if you arn't doing OPS you don't need the bloody gear, the gear you get outta flashpoints, missions and crafting is more then enough to do all the content in the game besides Ranked PvP which has it's own progression path and OPS which has it's own progression path and rewards.

 

The reason why i am saying this is because it is becoming a trend that is not only hurting gameing but i honestly fear it could destory it as well, People are willing to spend money to skip content in Single player games now like WHY the challange was why we played game and now people seem to ether just forget that or not care because it's not what they want and don't give a rats *** about what other people enjoy just to please themselfs and that is what is happening to MMO's, Their are lots of people that work hard to get their BIS and deserve that gear and not only that if you ask them for help 95% of them would give advice and help, the amount of times i've seen people back in SoR that would help GF OPS groups learn the fights and help them with advice on their classes was honestly one of the best things i've seen in a MMO in a long time and that is gone now because they are gone with these changes.

 

This type of gearing system is both good and bad for multiable reasons but it is most bad.

 

The good: it is really quick.

 

The Bad: it devalues the gear, it makes doing harder content unapealing because you can get from anywhere, next to no one does OPS anyway, makes running outta content faster and causes burnout super fast.

 

" get the best gear for doing nothing". Completely false, as i pointed out before. The vertical progression is the easy part, the hard part comes after with getting the best augments, the best mods/enhancements, amps, set bonuses and tacticals. Easy for you cause maybe you exploited that credit box?

 

It's selfishness of the highest degree. What do you lose for letting other people have gear progression? Why do you think Operations should be the only challenge in the game and why do you think that dedication to a task can't yield rewards either? You think you are the only one entitled to progression and it can only happen in the way you want it to. Operations aren't even the hardest content in the game. PvP is. And in PvP you need the best gear or you get wrecked. But you want to do your operations and then come wreck other people in PvP cause reasons right? Or take your better gear and flex your e-peen? Skill determines your e-peen and wether you win fights at some point with this gear system. That is the way it should be. Besides, it's always been ridiculous for the hardest content to drop the hardest gear, because what will you need that gear for? You already beat the highest challenge, you obviously don't need it.

 

Take that entitlement to someone that cares. You want to do ops for your gear, go right ahead. You have that option. You don't have the option to deny others so you feel better about running them. This is not in fact hurting the game at all. It is engaging more people with the gearing system and progression, not forcing anyone into just one gameplay type they may not be looking to do. Instead it lets them focus on fun, on doing what they want and still have a progression path.

For you it has to be the exclusive ops power carrot or no deal. It is utterly close minded. No one is stopping you from playing the way you want, what entitles you to do that for other people? If you don't want to play for fun, then don't play. It means you were forcing yourself in order to get the carrot. I don't think you are a majority of any kind on this. Honestly, not even happy to have exclusive gear on Dxun, you need to have full exclusivity on gear. Honestly...

Edited by Nemmar
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The whole point of a RPG is to lvl up then gear up your toon and you get that gear for overcoming challanges in this case OPS so that you can take on even harder challanges in the future, if you arn't doing OPS you don't need the bloody gear

 

I've always thought the whole point of an RPG was to have fun. Gear just makes it easier to do that.

 

I won't even get the whole PVP issue, although PVP is practically the only part of the game where you do need top-tier gear now thanks to the level sycning of most legacy content.

 

Not everyone is a Nim raider, or capable of being a NiM raider. Those are the players who do actually NEED the gear to do the harder content. If your reflexes a little too slow, you can't use voice, you can't find an elite team to run with (and team does matter, it's not all YOUR skill that lets you do NiM Ops), then at least you can get top-tier gear and be HM capable.

 

How does letting the less than perfect players dabble in harder content harm you?

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" get the best gear for doing nothing". Completely false, as i pointed out before. The vertical progression is the easy part, the hard part comes after with getting the best augments, the best mods/enhancements, amps, set bonuses and tacticals. Easy for you cause maybe you exploited that credit box?

 

It's selfishness of the highest degree. What do you lose for letting other people have gear progression? Why do you think Operations should be the only challenge in the game and why do you think that dedication to a task can't yield rewards either? You think you are the only one entitled to progression and it can only happen in the way you want it to. Operations aren't even the hardest content in the game. PvP is. And in PvP you need the best gear or you get wrecked. But you want to do your operations and then come wreck other people in PvP cause reasons right? Or take your better gear and flex your e-peen? Skill determines your e-peen and wether you win fights at some point with this gear system. That is the way it should be. Besides, it's always been ridiculous for the hardest content to drop the hardest gear, because what will you need that gear for? You already beat the highest challenge, you obviously don't need it.

 

Take that entitlement to someone that cares. You want to do ops for your gear, go right ahead. You have that option. You don't have the option to deny others so you feel better about running them. This is not in fact hurting the game at all. It is engaging more people with the gearing system and progression, not forcing anyone into just one gameplay type they may not be looking to do. Instead it lets them focus on fun, on doing what they want and still have a progression path.

For you it has to be the exclusive ops power carrot or no deal. It is utterly close minded. No one is stopping you from playing the way you want, what entitles you to do that for other people? If you don't want to play for fun, then don't play. It means you were forcing yourself in order to get the carrot. I don't think you are a majority of any kind on this. Honestly, not even happy to have exclusive gear on Dxun, you need to have full exclusivity on gear. Honestly...

 

As i said before the reason for you to get the best gear for doing nothing because you get it for bloody everything, beat a boss in a vet flash point heres 5 rng pieces of loot, beat a ops boss 5 pieces of the same loot, MM flashpoint 5 pieces of loot. You say i'm close minded and no one is stopping me from playing the way i want well guess what mate i can turn that right around no one was stopping you playing the way you wanted and again what does not having the best gear do to you nothing what did it do to me again nothing but you do know that ops wasn't the only way to get good gear was right? Crafters could RE mods and all that and learn the recipe and craft that gear and sell it so if you wanted the gear and didn't raid then you could of gotten it from the GTN or you could get the slightly less good crystal vender pieces instead and just transfer those to your old sets.

 

What do i get for letting other people get good loot nothing and i'm not saying REEEEEE THATS MY GOOD LOOT NOOOOOOOOES YOU CAN'T HAS IT, i don't give a rats *** what your gear is and i never did and if you read what i typed i only care about the health of the game long term and the OPS community, i don't do rated PvP anymore so i can't talk about that side of things but i can say that he OPS side is hurting, alot of people have left because their is no room for growth this everything scales and drops the same gear has killed alot of drive for people because other then Dxun their is nothing really new or worth doing with your guild over a pickup group and even pickup groups have changed.

 

It went from a place of wanting to actively learn how to do the OPS and learn your class to a place were it feels almost like their is always that 1 person that just wants to sabotageing the runs i've had about 3 groups that did that just this week, This game needs to sort it self out and tell everyone what it wants to be because as long as it keeps being this middle ground people will keep complaining, do i think everyone should progress yes and everyone has always had a path to progression be it OPS for the stright loot, PvP for their Expertise gear or even flashpoints and weekly quests for their vender crystals that gave nearly just as good gear as the OPS counterpart everyone had a path of progression and now their is no path of progression they are all just lumpped togeather, Could this be the best thing to happen to the game? Honestly i don't know i'm just hoping this doesn't have the same effect that WoW had when they opened M+ were it just damn well killed the Raiding side of things for most players because that is what i'm seeing now in this game that OPS is something that most players have just turned their noses up at because why do that when i can just do Red Reaper MM solo in less then 10mins and before you ask look it up people are doing this and it is insane.

 

Will you read this prob not because you seem to just lump me in with the closed minded ******s that just don't want to give out their shiny toys guess what you want them you can bloody have them i never gave 2 craps about keeping them exclusive you know how i said people used to help in the premade OPS groups yeah well i was one of them i helped alot of people learn the fights and their classes and i liked doing it, it helped people learn the OPS so hopefully they would do more which they did weekly even if it was just GF and people learned their classes which was good alround now you try and help people and most of them either just ignore you or tell you off, I love this game and want the best for it i just don't think this is the best way to do because all it ends up doing is funneling everyone to flashpoints which is what i see EVERYONE doing and you can just do it 24/7 if you have the time speeding up gearing way to fast.

 

Edit: also yeah no duh of course we play games to have fun but at the same time again we have challanges put in that we have to overcome to win, do we have to do them all no and me and meny others enjoy overcoming these challanges are they for everyone no but again they don't have to do it but at the same time the rewards for doing them is then outta reach for those people.

Edited by Darkchip
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