What i'd like to see, and a lot of other Tank players, is for us to be able to dish out more damage, and still be a Tank.

A lot of military people like me, that play Tanks, still don't get in an educated way why Tanks don't do good damage, and only shield people. We think that MMO developers obviously don't know warfare, or what a Tank really means.

I’d like to see an enchantment to some of our ability’s like maybe adding a slam to force choke like some NPC do on oricion.

As far doing more damage as a tank maybe a slight boots to the dps but there has to be some sort of trade off to The tank spec (I am also a former military man so I get where you’re coming from) I just think in the term of balance they can’t make The damage output of tank spec to much.

As for an education on why tank have never done that much damage is as I was saying there has to be a trade off to create a balance (I.e dps could ask why can’t they have more defensive stats.)The point is that so each class needs the other class in some way dps can dish it out put can’t take a hit and the other way is tanks can take the hits but it takes forever to dps something down I hope that kinda help on the reason why tank don’t do a lot of damage

Yeah, i know there would have to be a trade off to how much we can do in mitigating damage and such, but that's what i think Tactical is for, to be able to trade that off for more damage, which i would be okay with.

If that is the case and I hope it is I totally agree you

What i'd like to see, and a lot of other Tank players, is for us to be able to dish out more damage, and still be a Tank.

 

A lot of military people like me, that play Tanks, still don't get in an educated way why Tanks don't do good damage, and only shield people. We think that MMO developers obviously don't know warfare, or what a Tank really means.

Before they just nerfed juggs i used to solo flashpoints with my lvl 70 jugg and a lvl 50 companion. We need more damage to steam roll the competition so if they could set it back to where it was before the nerf it would be nice.

Hey folks,

 

Following our Onslaught announcement at SW Celebration we want to start diving into feedback right away. I want to use this thread to talk about Tactical Item effects and Set Bonuses for Immortal and Defense Disciplines. Our goal for set bonuses is to introduce new bonuses, and potentially with even new sizes so you can mix and match. Tactical Items are a new item type that is meant to be build defining and most likely to directly impact how an ability works. For inspiration here are two completely made up Chain Lightning Examples:

1. Chain Lightning now does all of its total damage to only one target, and no longer jumps.
   
2. Chain Lightning now jumps even more and does additional damage to secondary targets.
   

 

That would allow you to take a standard ability and allow it to be modified to fit your playstyle. Please use this thread to brainstorm ideas and make as many recommendations as you would like! For context:

• Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  
• Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.
  

Set bonuses, tacticals, both, let us know what you would like to see. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

 

-eric

Jedi Guardians saber throw could have a tac item that makes it act like twin saber throw as it hit enemies in a straight line rather then a single target or another example a tac item that allows force leap to hit a 2nd target if one is near the main target for half damage to 2nd target and half focus build and after it leaps to the 2nd target it leaps back to the main target.

The thing I would like to see is some more group synergy. Compared to what sentinels do for the group it always struck me as odd that they buffed the whole group and we did not. In addition we do not have a pull. So what about ability to increase group synergy and give us a comparable skill to other tanks.

So say that we add something to Force Leap where out target is now rooted or perhaps has a damage buff. So while we can not bring the target to us, if we go to the target we now have some tactical advantage. This fits with the image of Jedi charging to battle as the leading edge of combat but also makes us more valuable to the group.

Thanks for the consideration.

Honestly... I'm fine with the set bonus as it is currently. But as I'll probably be complaining about whatever they come up with, I feel obliged to have ideas.

Guardian tanks biggest "struggle" (and I use that loosely, as I really dont have an issue with it) is ranged mobs that are spread out. Our AoE threat generation is strongly dependent on guardian slash, which must be procced by a single target low threat ability, and the saber reflect utility allowing for high threat on everything. Sweep and cyclone slash are useful in this regard, but compared to PT and Sin aoe is the one area we are lower. Maybe something that increases the diameter and threat built by cyclone slash?

I suck at idea generating.

I'm gonna go a different way here.. I have an idea for pvp tanking.. make us better at protection. Perhaps a tactical item that allows us to guard 2 targets simultaneously and take less damage but as a tradeoff we deal 30 to 50% less damage. Combine with modifications to set bonus that increase the protection of intercede and taunts. Possibly make intercede cleanse roots and slows on friendly targets. Buff our mobility.

I see the point of buffing our damage output as previous posters said... but as you guys mentioned at cantina.. you want us to all be able to play our class how we want. So yeah give them an option to be a true hybrid or skank tank that deals insane damage.. but also give us the option to be a true mmo tank. I want a utility based build for ranked pvp that doesn't need to do much damage but uses protection and utility to make it really hard to kill your teammates if played right. Hence the idea for double guard and increased protection as well as the ability to cleanse teammates.

As well for tanks and tank spec alone I think the chilling scream utility needs a rework. I know it got nerfed cause dps specs were spamming it in rotations to get massive numbers back in the day.. but I think for tanks it needs to go back to dealing more damage like it used to.. in ranked arenas it's a super handy skill that is under utilized..

Tldr.. I've mained jugg tank for 6 years.. I love how it plays and see the reasoning for a more damage based build.. but for ranked pvp I would love a utility based build that sacrifices damage for greatly increased group utility.

Also a pull would be nice... we don't need 2 gap closers. Especially since we can spec into super low CD on leap when attacked. Combine with intercede we tech have 3 gap closers. Perhaps replace mad dash with a pull.. or leave mad dash alone and modify choke on tanks.. in immortal spec choke does 70% less damage but can be used up to 30m away and causes very high threat. If target is over 10m away choke will pull target to tank location at end of channel.

Accidentally put this in my vengeance post, just putting it in the right place.

Immortal

-Force choke reduces the CD on saberward and invincible by 5 seconds per tick, most juggs hate their CDs while strong being such a long wait and don't want to use them often, so how about a way to decrease them slightly, possibly now making a lack luster utility (strangulate) to almost a necessity.

-Sorry to all the skank tank haters, but probably one of the easiest changes, Changes Crushing blow's text to read "If you are protected by Aegis assault, increases the damage of crushing blow by 50%" losing your AoE mechanic but making an even stronger aggro hit, and yes single target damage.

-Reduce the CD of backhand but change it's stun to a root, increasing pve threat and damage and pvp control, without a physical stun lockdown.

-Whenever you *defend* an attack reduce the CD of invincible by 3 seconds. This I think is more of an incentive to run tank stats instead of dps gear, and even helps pve to a degree as adds are perfect for defending against unlike bosses.

I'm gonna go a different way here.. I have an idea for pvp tanking.. make us better at protection. Perhaps a tactical item that allows us to guard 2 targets simultaneously and take less damage but as a tradeoff we deal 30 to 50% less damage. Combine with modifications to set bonus that increase the protection of intercede and taunts. Possibly make intercede cleanse roots and slows on friendly targets. Buff our mobility.

 

I see the point of buffing our damage output as previous posters said... but as you guys mentioned at cantina.. you want us to all be able to play our class how we want. So yeah give them an option to be a true hybrid or skank tank that deals insane damage.. but also give us the option to be a true mmo tank. I want a utility based build for ranked pvp that doesn't need to do much damage but uses protection and utility to make it really hard to kill your teammates if played right. Hence the idea for double guard and increased protection as well as the ability to cleanse teammates.

 

As well for tanks and tank spec alone I think the chilling scream utility needs a rework. I know it got nerfed cause dps specs were spamming it in rotations to get massive numbers back in the day.. but I think for tanks it needs to go back to dealing more damage like it used to.. in ranked arenas it's a super handy skill that is under utilized..

 

Tldr.. I've mained jugg tank for 6 years.. I love how it plays and see the reasoning for a more damage based build.. but for ranked pvp I would love a utility based build that sacrifices damage for greatly increased group utility.

 

Also a pull would be nice... we don't need 2 gap closers. Especially since we can spec into super low CD on leap when attacked. Combine with intercede we tech have 3 gap closers. Perhaps replace mad dash with a pull.. or leave mad dash alone and modify choke on tanks.. in immortal spec choke does 70% less damage but can be used up to 30m away and causes very high threat. If target is over 10m away choke will pull target to tank location at end of channel.

I second these ideas. I don't play tank in ranked at all, since I would be really bad at it, but I've had much the same thoughts for regs... I would actually trade off damage for more utility. Basically, I want to be even MORE of a pita for the enemy by just being in the way - making it harder for them to get where they want, and making it harder for them to dps down my team mates.

...Also a pull would be nice... we don't need 2 gap closers. ....

My request for a pull isn't as a second gap closer (though since the other tanks have a a charge and a pull, there is nothing OP about having 2 gap closers). A pull is more for group utility than closing gaps. Pull a patrol away from a nearby group so not to aggro all of them together, or pull a ranged add to the group to be AoE'ed down with everything else. The extra aggro on the pull ability is nice too. I do notice I have to work a little harder on my guardians for initial aggro than I do when I have a pull available on my other tanks.

I do like your idea of possibly tying a pull to choke/stasis. I'd be willing to give up my 2nd stun for a pull.

Idea 1:

MASS FORCE CHOKE / MASS STASIS HOLD (should be exclusive to Tanks)

modification for Juggers / Guardians, basically turning Force Choke / Stasis Hold into an AoE.

(like Darth Malgus in that one flashpoint where he proclaims himself the new emperor and then in the bossfight Force Chokes the entire party)

Idea 2:

PULLING FORCE CHOKE / PULLING STASIS HOLD

that pull the targets to your location, but not as fast, more like in a medium speed.

Idea 3:

MASS FORCE SCREAM / MASS other stuff (sry, I'm not english)

Basically turning the skill into an AoE that deals a lot of damage.

Idea 4:

BLASTER REFLECTION

WHEN EVADING (defense stat), passive X% chance to reflect a ranged weapon/tech attack back at attackers (dealing X% or full damage) INSTEAD of the normal evading animation you get on a sucessfull defense. I mean, cmon, Soresu-Form. Obi-Wan does it all the times. It would also increase the overall damage output somewhat and be true to KOTOR.

My request for a pull isn't as a second gap closer (though since the other tanks have a a charge and a pull, there is nothing OP about having 2 gap closers). A pull is more for group utility than closing gaps. Pull a patrol away from a nearby group so not to aggro all of them together, or pull a ranged add to the group to be AoE'ed down with everything else. The extra aggro on the pull ability is nice too. I do notice I have to work a little harder on my guardians for initial aggro than I do when I have a pull available on my other tanks.

 

I do like your idea of possibly tying a pull to choke/stasis. I'd be willing to give up my 2nd stun for a pull.

Exactly.. especially since we have 1 hard stun and one aoe mez. As well as shortest interrupt CD in game b4 you even count choke

I haven't thought of many specifics, but perhaps there could be set bonuses/tactical items that increase group mitigation, instead of just personal mitigation. Like, for example...

Tactical Item: Saber Reflect no longer reflects damage back to the attacker. Instead, you absorb all incoming damage for the duration of the skill, then distribute the sum of that damage equally between all group members within 40m as an absorb shield. Shields last for 20 seconds, or until consumed.

Of course, the damage taken would be capped for something like that, but you get the idea. Could be useful for someone playing as an off tank instead of main tank. Tanks are all about protecting their friends, after all.

Link to Main Forum Post with Google Doc of Failure's Set Bonus and Tactical Item suggestions

IMMORTAL/DEFENSE

Tactical Suggestions:

• Intercede redirects all damage taking by an ally to the player for 4s
  
• Force Choke now has 30m range and pulls target to you.
  
• Blade turning - change melee/range to force/tech
  
• Endure Pain now absorbs damage up to 20% of your max health
  
• Intercede no longer reduces threat of target and gives them a shield that absorbs a moderate amount of damage

Hey folks,

 

Following our Onslaught announcement at SW Celebration we want to start diving into feedback right away. I want to use this thread to talk about Tactical Item effects and Set Bonuses for Immortal and Defense Disciplines. Our goal for set bonuses is to introduce new bonuses, and potentially with even new sizes so you can mix and match. Tactical Items are a new item type that is meant to be build defining and most likely to directly impact how an ability works. For inspiration here are two completely made up Chain Lightning Examples:

1. Chain Lightning now does all of its total damage to only one target, and no longer jumps.
   
2. Chain Lightning now jumps even more and does additional damage to secondary targets.
   

 

That would allow you to take a standard ability and allow it to be modified to fit your playstyle. Please use this thread to brainstorm ideas and make as many recommendations as you would like! For context:

• Tactical Items: These should modify one of your Advanced Class/Discipline abilities to work differently. The goal is for you to use the ability in situations you previously wouldn’t (more often, against specific targets, etc)
  
• Set Bonuses: These should be focused on the broader “kind of tools” your class uses, but not specific abilities. Some examples are sets that center around bleeds, force damage, lightning, shields, cover, and so on.
  

Set bonuses, tacticals, both, let us know what you would like to see. I may not respond frequently in this thread but know that I am going to be compiling everything and sending it over to the team.

 

-eric

I specifically Re-Subscribed to solely be able to message on these forums on this thread

( so imagine how many others Subscribers that'll return if you consider my idea )

Tactical Items = More Action-Combat Abilities ( i.e. abilities that does not require a target ( some already established abilities are " Cyclone Slash " , " Whirling Blow " , " Gun Sweep " Mortar Volley " , " Force Quake " and others

My only request - no more telegraphs ( can you remove them? )

An example

• " Force Jump " = Just like in the movies, some Jedi and Sith can Jump. An ability that'll look different from the environment. Think of Ataru Form ( ... the Original Ataru Form via acrobatics
  
• Blade Twirling: Could be outside of Combat. Could also be an RP gig ( idk )
  

I know Guardians / Juggernauts already have " Force Leap " , but at least consider it

Aim for Jedi Academy's Style Combat.

Bring back the Jedi Forms

• Shi-Cho
  
• Makashi
  
• Ataru ( Acrobatics .. not a " speedy " form )
  
• Soresu
  
• Shi-en / Djem So
  
• Niman
  
• Juyo ( not the previous one )
  

Tactical Items:

Force Choke now Generates a massive amount of threat, has 30m range, and pulls a target towards you. (Gives you the high threat generating ability that Sins and PTs have in Force Pull and Grapple basically. Something I think Guardian kinda needs since Leap generates so little and every GCD matters when pulling a boss and keeping it on you. So it would look like Choke + run in + Enrage > Crushing Blow + Retaliate, Backhand > etc)

Invincible makes you immune to all damage for 3 seconds and lasts for 5 seconds longer. In addition the cooldown of Invincible, Saber Ward, Saber Reflect, and Enraged Defense are all decreased by X% (maybe like 10% or 20%)

Backhand is no longer a hard stun but a root that lasts for 4 seconds and slows the target by 35% for 6 seconds after the root duration ends. In addition, the cooldown is reduced by 42 seconds.

Force Push in now a cone-shaped AoE that can push up to 8 targets in front of you. In addition, the cooldown is reduced by 30 seconds. Invincible now extends to all group/operation members within 30m at 50% effectiveness (gives you Sniper shield basically)

Set Bonus:

2pc: Aegis Assault has a 50% chance to grant Preserver's Ward, absorbing 35% of the damage of force and tech attacks for 3 seconds. Movement speed is increased by 10% (stacks with Rule of Two passive) (a slightly altered version of the "leaked" set bonus)

4pc: Endure Pain absorbs 30% of all damage while active. Force Charge also generates a massive amount of threat. (on par with Force Pull and Grapple)

4pc: Intercede heals you and the target for 15% when used. In addition, Intercede increases your target's damage by 20% for 6 seconds.

6pc: Receiving damage while Invincible is active grants a stack of Preserver's Endurance, healing you for 7% of your maximum health per stack when Invincible ends. This effect stacks up to 5 times and cannot occur more than once a second. Blade Turning also lasts 3 seconds longer (Slightly edited "leaked" set bonus while keeping half of the current 6pc).

Tactical Items:

 

Force Choke now Generates a massive amount of threat, has 30m range, and pulls a target towards you. (Gives you the high threat generating ability that Sins and PTs have in Force Pull and Grapple basically. Something I think Guardian kinda needs since Leap generates so little and every GCD matters when pulling a boss and keeping it on you. So it would look like Choke + run in + Enrage > Crushing Blow + Retaliate, Backhand > etc)

 

Invincible makes you immune to all damage for 3 seconds and lasts for 5 seconds longer. In addition the cooldown of Invincible, Saber Ward, Saber Reflect, and Enraged Defense are all decreased by X% (maybe like 10% or 20%)

 

Backhand is no longer a hard stun but a root that lasts for 4 seconds and slows the target by 35% for 6 seconds after the root duration ends. In addition, the cooldown is reduced by 42 seconds.

 

Force Push in now a cone-shaped AoE that can push up to 8 targets in front of you. In addition, the cooldown is reduced by 30 seconds. Invincible now extends to all group/operation members within 30m at 50% effectiveness (gives you Sniper shield basically)

 

Set Bonus:

 

2pc: Aegis Assault has a 50% chance to grant Preserver's Ward, absorbing 35% of the damage of force and tech attacks for 3 seconds. Movement speed is increased by 10% (stacks with Rule of Two passive) (a slightly altered version of the "leaked" set bonus)

 

4pc: Endure Pain absorbs 30% of all damage while active. Force Charge also generates a massive amount of threat. (on par with Force Pull and Grapple)

 

4pc: Intercede heals you and the target for 15% when used. In addition, Intercede increases your target's damage by 20% for 6 seconds.

 

6pc: Receiving damage while Invincible is active grants a stack of Preserver's Endurance, healing you for 7% of your maximum health per stack when Invincible ends. This effect stacks up to 5 times and cannot occur more than once a second. Blade Turning also lasts 3 seconds longer (Slightly edited "leaked" set bonus while keeping half of the current 6pc).

I LOVE YOUR IDEA ABOUT FORCE PUSH BEING AOE. This game needs to focus on more of that in the upcoming expansion!!!!!!

Lowers your threat by 50% (its still gonna be 100% down from 150%) and boosting your Crushing Blow dmg by 50%

(very usable on adds around the boss since its an aoe).