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Inflation


Amunra-amunray

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  • 2 months later...

As a trader I’m inclined to agree.

 

As a raider I’m inclined to disagree.

 

Having augments come in more easier has made it easier to gear characters for raids, etc. I really don’t think it’s affecting the market that much because people are more likely to make their own now rather than buy it off the markets since it’s been made easier now.

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Keep all rewards the same as they are now, keep all repair costs the same, all training costs the same etc etc. However, take a decimal point off currency of every character/account in game. So if you had 1,000,000,000 credits before, now you have 100,000,000. If you had 1,000,000 now you have 100,000. So on and so forth.

 

Everyone would have the same percentage of credits relative to everyone else and these ridiculous costs of gear and mats on the GTN would be forced to go down, because you couldn't buy a lightsaber for 150,000,000 credits. And even in the off chance you could, you probably wouldn't.

 

Inflation problem solved. Now all they have to do is be more proactive fixing exploits to keep from being in the same boat in 6 months.

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Keep all rewards the same as they are now, keep all repair costs the same, all training costs the same etc etc. However, take a decimal point off currency of every character/account in game. So if you had 1,000,000,000 credits before, now you have 100,000,000. If you had 1,000,000 now you have 100,000. So on and so forth.

 

Everyone would have the same percentage of credits relative to everyone else and these ridiculous costs of gear and mats on the GTN would be forced to go down, because you couldn't buy a lightsaber for 150,000,000 credits. And even in the off chance you could, you probably wouldn't.

 

Inflation problem solved. Now all they have to do is be more proactive fixing exploits to keep from being in the same boat in 6 months.

Are you serious? (Methinks not.) Take 9/10 of everyone's credits away without changing any prices for anything? Think about how that would look for a newish player who is measuring his credits against what he has to pay to merchants for speeders and all that. Imagine being on Ord Mantell, logging off for the night with 1500 of the 1650 or so credits that you need for one of those level 9 blue armour pieces, and the next day you only have 150...

 

Do you really want SWTOR to die with the reputation as the game that stole 90% of the credits (gold in more general terms) from all its players?

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Honestly there really isn't much if any inflation in this game. Material costs on the GTN have been roughly the same since launch. The only things that have inflated prices are CM items, and even those have gone down in prices since most of them can be purchased directly from the CM, instead of from packs. The days of CM Mounts costing 200 Mil+ are long gone. Most CM items are between 20 mil, - 50 mil.
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Are you serious? (Methinks not.) Take 9/10 of everyone's credits away without changing any prices for anything? Think about how that would look for a newish player who is measuring his credits against what he has to pay to merchants for speeders and all that. Imagine being on Ord Mantell, logging off for the night with 1500 of the 1650 or so credits that you need for one of those level 9 blue armour pieces, and the next day you only have 150...

 

Do you really want SWTOR to die with the reputation as the game that stole 90% of the credits (gold in more general terms) from all its players?

 

I think that's being over dramatic a bit. But yes, I'm serious. Everyone still has their slice of the pie, percentage wise compared to other players.

 

Regarding the newish player you are describing, do you think that when he sees a 50 mill price tag on the GTN, that that players level of intimidation has less effect than missing 1500 credits. Which is why I think this is a good idea. It will prevent new players from being overwhelmed by the cost of goods on the GTN.

 

With some rare exceptions there are very few expensive items outside the GTN.

 

This really isn't a bad idea, if it weren't for people not being able to see past their own selfish desires. Such as the amount of credits they have. Costs would crash down and new players would be able to afford a greater amount of items than they currently have the ability to do.

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I think that's being over dramatic a bit. But yes, I'm serious. Everyone still has their slice of the pie, percentage wise compared to other players.

 

Regarding the newish player you are describing, do you think that when he sees a 50 mill price tag on the GTN, that that players level of intimidation has less effect than missing 1500 credits. Which is why I think this is a good idea. It will prevent new players from being overwhelmed by the cost of goods on the GTN.

 

With some rare exceptions there are very few expensive items outside the GTN.

 

This really isn't a bad idea, if it weren't for people not being able to see past their own selfish desires. Such as the amount of credits they have. Costs would crash down and new players would be able to afford a greater amount of items than they currently have the ability to do.

 

Removing credits from everyone in the game would be a horrible idea. Nothing in the game other then Rare CM items would cost 50 million. Everything any player new or old needs can be bought for a minimal cost. The only thing you would do by removing credits from every player is to tick off most of the playerbase. Not to mention making credits in this game is really easy to do, so if you really wanted that 1 special rare 50 million credit item it would take a bit of work, but it wouldn't be horrible.

 

Not to mention anyone that comes to an MMO this late has to understand somethings they might desire are going to take them some time to farm in order to get.

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Removing credits from everyone in the game would be a horrible idea. Nothing in the game other then Rare CM items would cost 50 million. Everything any player new or old needs can be bought for a minimal cost. The only thing you would do by removing credits from every player is to tick off most of the playerbase. Not to mention making credits in this game is really easy to do, so if you really wanted that 1 special rare 50 million credit item it would take a bit of work, but it wouldn't be horrible.

 

Not to mention anyone that comes to an MMO this late has to understand somethings they might desire are going to take them some time to farm in order to get.

 

Well it's not like I have any power to do anything about it...and this thread probably isn't the best place for this discussion if my intent were to rally the troops.

 

I will disagree with you to a point...and I am not surprised in the least that there is push back on this. Those credits that everyone has weren't earned...everything was inflated by a certain well known exploit where trillions of credits, if not more, were duped into the game's economy. The best answer would have been a rollback when it happened...we are well passed that point now. I really don't see a downside to what I proposed.

 

I haven't even brought up the point about the negative effect it would have on credit farmers.

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Well it's not like I have any power to do anything about it...and this thread probably isn't the best place for this discussion if my intent were to rally the troops.

 

I will disagree with you to a point...and I am not surprised in the least that there is push back on this. Those credits that everyone has weren't earned...everything was inflated by a certain well known exploit where trillions of credits, if not more, were duped into the game's economy. The best answer would have been a rollback when it happened...we are well passed that point now. I really don't see a downside to what I proposed.

 

I haven't even brought up the point about the negative effect it would have on credit farmers.

 

I know I didn't do any exploits, and I worked my tail off to get the credits I've earned by crafting, and selling things on the GTN, so no I don't believe removing credits from the game like that is a good idea. I farmed all the mats by hand to craft, so I truly earned what I made on my sales.

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i think this is a horrible idea.

 

taking aways players stuff will cause a hugh loss in trust towards bioware

and many players would leave the game.

 

if you are talking with players with less money, you will see that they

are having filled collections, because they spend their credits on cosmetics.

so if we do that with credits, we also should take away 90% of all collection stuff.

 

and when you are talking to players with less credits, you mostly will hear that they

bought tons of cosmetics and stuff you don't need in the game. so it was their decision

to use the money in a different way, not safe it and use them for profit investments.

 

fighting inflation works with stuff like the quest on dantooine. 150 mill for an achievement

and a silly item, letting you glow golden. but guess! who also paid the 150mill? sure. the

people whining about credits.

 

what they really should do is taking away the exploit goodies.

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Punishing people who have credited their credits in a decent manner is unfair. :rolleyes:

 

Events like Nar Shadaa Nigthlife pull many credits out of the game. More such events, but with better stuff. But higher prices.

 

I am assuming all current players have accrued their credits in a legit way. It would be unfair only if it didn't happen to EVERYONE...and it should happen to everyone. It's also, not a punishment but I am less than surprised that people feel that it is. Nightlife pulls credits out of the game, sure. However, it's not enough to even notice a price difference on the GTN while the event is going on. If it pulled as many credits out of this game that need to come out, you would see prices drop. It's smoke and mirrors.

 

Sigh. If you take away 90% of players credits by dropping a decimal point, then each credit everyone owns is now worth 9 times more than it was. Nobody is losing ANYTHING except an imaginary number. I'm not saying imaginary because this is a video game. I am saying it's imaginary because the value of each inflated credit is less than the value of a credit in a game where this is implemented.

 

The benefits to this would be especially noticeable for the newer players. Currently, they level up and have less than a million credits and look at GTN prices and are likely overwhelmed a bit. Those credits for new players would now be worth more than they are currently and the health (population even) of the game is likely to be in a better state. Well...that's actually conjecture...but I don't think I'm too far off base.

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Count me among the players who would quit the game if this idea were implemented. I spent hours of playtime crafting and listing items on the GTN specifically to earn credits. It has taken me over 5 years to earn the credits I currently have and you want to simply remove 90% of them because you think it will somehow improve the game's economy? What are your projections for how long it would take before prices started to rise again... a month, two months, six months, a year? What do you think would happen to the GTN the moment this was announced? If the greed motivation you ascribe is so prevalent, isn't it possible that players would pull all their listings from the GTN and wait to re-list after the credit reduction took place, since they'd know they were about to lose 90% of their selling price? You also make the claim that this is fair because it would affect everyone, but those who engaged in heavy buying would be affected much less than the sellers, because unlike the sellers, they'd still have everything they purchased, whereas the sellers would lose 90% of their gains from those sales. How is that fair?
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wouldn't work the way you think it would anyways.... it would immediately rebalance because of heroics and drop rate rarity. a planets worth of heroics is worth a half mil credits, and drop rates control availability of rare mats...

 

what would happen is that you'd see GTN slow to a crawl for a few weeks, and more direct trading (which by the way is a sign of economy failure) along with a brief reset of prices that raapidly rise back to previous levels (and the truly "rich" in game will take advantage of that to become even more entrenched)

 

 

the real problem is rewards and drop rate scaling.... they're a joke while leveling, and in demand crafts have horrible material drop rates (both too low AND too high in some cases), and are frequently content locked (VotMG is the worst for it).

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Count me among the players who would quit the game if this idea were implemented. I spent hours of playtime crafting and listing items on the GTN specifically to earn credits. It has taken me over 5 years to earn the credits I currently have and you want to simply remove 90% of them because you think it will somehow improve the game's economy? What are your projections for how long it would take before prices started to rise again... a month, two months, six months, a year? What do you think would happen to the GTN the moment this was announced? If the greed motivation you ascribe is so prevalent, isn't it possible that players would pull all their listings from the GTN and wait to re-list after the credit reduction took place, since they'd know they were about to lose 90% of their selling price? You also make the claim that this is fair because it would affect everyone, but those who engaged in heavy buying would be affected much less than the sellers, because unlike the sellers, they'd still have everything they purchased, whereas the sellers would lose 90% of their gains from those sales. How is that fair?

 

Well, my projections of longevity are based solely upon how efficient BioWare is at quashing these things (duping/exploiting) in the first place...of which they haven't done a stellar job in the past, so not long unless changes occur.

 

What would happen to the GTN either nothing or everyone would pull their auctions until the change. It wouldn't matter. The items listed for 100 million credits wouldn't get bought and the auctions would expire.

 

I'm not too sure what you mean by the "greed motivation". I'm simply saying that exploiting and duping has inflated the value of credits. I do remember saying that I expected push back on this due to peoples' greed. TBH, I can't be arsed with going back and reading what I wrote.

 

As far as buyers vs. sellers...well let's say the "buyers" sold a ton of stuff they had. Maybe they earned a billion credits today. Well then when this hypothetical change would occur then they would have 100 million credits. The costs would go down on everything on the GTN. If you are a seller, it's the same scenario...even though you have 90% less credits, the cost of EACH CREDIT will rise.

 

I fail to see how that would hurt anyone, as I have tried to explain, the value of each single credit has been inflated. By taking away a decimal point, you are deflating the entire economy and the value of each single credit skyrockets. Things on the GTN being sold for 100 million credits, will suddenly be sold for no more than 10 million credits. Who is losing out here?

 

I feel like these are pretty easy concepts to grasp. Maybe I fail at explaining things...

 

Feel free to agree with me or not...sometimes I don't even agree with myself. However, I've yet to see any semblance a rational argument of why this would be bad.

Edited by ChoppedSuey
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wouldn't work the way you think it would anyways.... it would immediately rebalance because of heroics and drop rate rarity. a planets worth of heroics is worth a half mil credits, and drop rates control availability of rare mats...

 

what would happen is that you'd see GTN slow to a crawl for a few weeks, and more direct trading (which by the way is a sign of economy failure) along with a brief reset of prices that raapidly rise back to previous levels (and the truly "rich" in game will take advantage of that to become even more entrenched)

 

 

the real problem is rewards and drop rate scaling.... they're a joke while leveling, and in demand crafts have horrible material drop rates (both too low AND too high in some cases), and are frequently content locked (VotMG is the worst for it).

 

I didn't see this till after my last post, so I rescind that last part about not seeing a decent rebuttal.

 

My argument is not against heroics or anything like that. It's not unusual for a player to make a million a day on heroics. The economy will always inflate at a certain rate in this game, but there has been some dupes and exploits in the past that I think are far more severe than a lot of players realize, which has thrown everything out of whack at a much faster pace than it should have happened.

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Well, my projections of longevity are based solely upon how efficient BioWare is at quashing these things (duping/exploiting) in the first place...of which they haven't done a stellar job in the past, so not long unless changes occur.

 

What would happen to the GTN either nothing or everyone would pull their auctions until the change. It wouldn't matter. The items listed for 100 million credits wouldn't get bought and the auctions would expire.

 

I'm not too sure what you mean by the "greed motivation". I'm simply saying that exploiting and duping has inflated the value of credits. I do remember saying that I expected push back on this due to peoples' greed. TBH, I can't be arsed with going back and reading what I wrote.

 

As far as buyers vs. sellers...well let's say the "buyers" sold a ton of stuff they had. Maybe they earned a billion credits today. Well then when this hypothetical change would occur then they would have 100 million credits. The costs would go down on everything on the GTN. If you are a seller, it's the same scenario...even though you have 90% less credits, the cost of EACH CREDIT will rise.

 

I fail to see how that would hurt anyone, as I have tried to explain, the value of each single credit has been inflated. By taking away a decimal point, you are deflating the entire economy and the value of each single credit skyrockets. Things on the GTN being sold for 100 million credits, will suddenly be sold for no more than 10 million credits. Who is losing out here?

 

I feel like these are pretty easy concepts to grasp. Maybe I fail at explaining things...

 

Feel free to agree with me or not...sometimes I don't even agree with myself. However, I've yet to see any semblance a rational argument of why this would be bad.

 

We just had an involuntary unlisting of all items on the GTN. As soon as it was over, things were posted again at much higher prices than before. Multiple items I'd been watching for weeks that had come down into the single digits of millions were re-listed for 10s of millions. That same thing would happen if people pulled listings.

 

When you cited "selfish desires" I could only assume you meant "greed." Was there some other motivation to which you were referring?

 

So my 1 billion credits becomes 100 million and someone's Million credits becomes 100 thousand. It would take them about an hour of play to recoup their loss. It would take me years to recoup mine. Please explain to me how that is fair.

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We just had an involuntary unlisting of all items on the GTN. As soon as it was over, things were posted again at much higher prices than before. Multiple items I'd been watching for weeks that had come down into the single digits of millions were re-listed for 10s of millions. That same thing would happen if people pulled listings.

 

When you cited "selfish desires" I could only assume you meant "greed." Was there some other motivation to which you were referring?

 

So my 1 billion credits becomes 100 million and someone's Million credits becomes 100 thousand. It would take them about an hour of play to recoup their loss. It would take me years to recoup mine. Please explain to me how that is fair.

 

It isn't fair, I'm beginning to think that this is a troll suggestion, since all of us know how easy it is to get credits now. GTN prices wouldn't change at all, the only thing that would is massive amounts of credits would be stolen from the game. The GTN prices would stay the same simply because Credits through heroics/dailies and other game activities can be aquired so quickly.

 

Even if this absurd suggestion went through, all of my GTN prices would stay the same.

Edited by Toraak
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It isn't fair, I'm beginning to think that this is a troll suggestion, since all of us know how easy it is to get credits now. GTN prices wouldn't change at all, the only thing that would is massive amounts of credits would be stolen from the game. The GTN prices would stay the same simply because Credits through heroics/dailies and other game activities can be aquired so quickly.

 

Even if this absurd suggestion went through, all of my GTN prices would stay the same.

 

You could absolutely do whatever you wanted to do. I don't know what you sell, so maybe what you do sell is already low enough that it wouldn't affect you.

 

Believe you me, if 90% of players credits went bye-bye, GTN costs would reduce 90% roughly. Maybe more so on the current high value 100 mill plus items. Things like low grade mats and item modifications wouldn't be affected too much I wouldn't think...I could be wrong.

 

You've said it isn't fair a couple times now if I remember correctly, why isn't it fair? I feel like your not getting what I'm trying to say. At least tell me that you understand that if you wipe out 90% of all player credits, the value of each credit will be worth significantly more than it currently is. If your 1 billion becomes 100 million and so does everyone else's...then your 100 million can purchase the same amount of items that your 1 billion previously could purchase. There will be some fluctuations to that of course and I'm speaking generally. If you understand that, how could you say it's not fair?

 

TBH with everyone who disagrees with me, which is fine, this will NEVER get implemented anyways. Doesn't mean it is a bad idea.

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We just had an involuntary unlisting of all items on the GTN. As soon as it was over, things were posted again at much higher prices than before. Multiple items I'd been watching for weeks that had come down into the single digits of millions were re-listed for 10s of millions. That same thing would happen if people pulled listings.

 

When you cited "selfish desires" I could only assume you meant "greed." Was there some other motivation to which you were referring?

 

So my 1 billion credits becomes 100 million and someone's Million credits becomes 100 thousand. It would take them about an hour of play to recoup their loss. It would take me years to recoup mine. Please explain to me how that is fair.

 

It's fair only because there are a lot of duped credits out there and you shouldn't have that much in the first place. Not just you specifically, everyone. Would it be fair or even feasible to do this on a case by case basis?

 

I get what your saying, but try to earn 100 million credits doing heroics. I mean it may be possible, but my bet is at the end of that you'd be rocking back and forth in a corner, naked, sucking your thumb.

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It's fair only because there are a lot of duped credits out there and you shouldn't have that much in the first place. Not just you specifically, everyone. Would it be fair or even feasible to do this on a case by case basis?

 

I get what your saying, but try to earn 100 million credits doing heroics. I mean it may be possible, but my bet is at the end of that you'd be rocking back and forth in a corner, naked, sucking your thumb.

 

I have been playing since March of 2014. In May of this year I discovered I'd crossed the 1 billion credit threshold. I never engaged in any exploits. I earned credits mostly by crafting, supplemented by weeklies/dailies/heroics and other general gameplay. During that time I gave away well over 200 million credits to guilds and other players (many of whom were complete strangers). You state "everyone" "shouldn't have that much in the first place." What is your reasoning for why those of us who do have that much (who did nothing improper to gain it) shouldn't have it?

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I have been playing since March of 2014. In May of this year I discovered I'd crossed the 1 billion credit threshold. I never engaged in any exploits. I earned credits mostly by crafting, supplemented by weeklies/dailies/heroics and other general gameplay. During that time I gave away well over 200 million credits to guilds and other players (many of whom were complete strangers). You state "everyone" "shouldn't have that much in the first place." What is your reasoning for why those of us who do have that much (who did nothing improper to gain it) shouldn't have it?

 

I see...you think I am accusing you of duping or exploiting credits. That is not the case at all. However, with the exploiting being so prevalent and widespread, do you not think that at least some of the credits that you earned, originated from someone who did exploit to get credits? That's my point. Even if you did nothing wrong, you are still affected as are we all.

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I see...you think I am accusing you of duping or exploiting credits. That is not the case at all. However, with the exploiting being so prevalent and widespread, do you not think that at least some of the credits that you earned, originated from someone who did exploit to get credits? That's my point. Even if you did nothing wrong, you are still affected as are we all.

 

No, I do not think that. I think that I have seen such accusations made before in various threads about any number of topics and I was hoping to avoid having anyone jump in and make such an accusation if I had been vague in my statement about how I acquired so many credits, which would ultimately distract from the question at hand, which was what your reasoning was for eliminating 90% of the credits from player holdings. You answered that, and it sounds to me as though you are saying you believe 90% of the credits currently in game are the result of exploits. Am I understanding you correctly? If so, then I do not share your opinion.

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You could absolutely do whatever you wanted to do. I don't know what you sell, so maybe what you do sell is already low enough that it wouldn't affect you.

 

Believe you me, if 90% of players credits went bye-bye, GTN costs would reduce 90% roughly. Maybe more so on the current high value 100 mill plus items. Things like low grade mats and item modifications wouldn't be affected too much I wouldn't think...I could be wrong.

 

You've said it isn't fair a couple times now if I remember correctly, why isn't it fair? I feel like your not getting what I'm trying to say. At least tell me that you understand that if you wipe out 90% of all player credits, the value of each credit will be worth significantly more than it currently is. If your 1 billion becomes 100 million and so does everyone else's...then your 100 million can purchase the same amount of items that your 1 billion previously could purchase. There will be some fluctuations to that of course and I'm speaking generally. If you understand that, how could you say it's not fair?

 

TBH with everyone who disagrees with me, which is fine, this will NEVER get implemented anyways. Doesn't mean it is a bad idea.

 

And you don't seem to get many players have acquired hundreds of million or billions of credits over YEARS. Of course it's not fair to them to get stripped of 90% of the credits they have fairly earned over the lifetime of the game. So new players want some new shiny that costs credits. It's fair for them to WORK FOR IT, just like the rest of us have since launch.

 

For new players to acquire Millions of credits is EASY, they don't need a handout by removing 90% of the credits from the game that people have worked hard to get over the years.

 

Not to mention Sales may lower for a short time, but within a month prices would be right back to what they are now, so sellers will just wait for a time so people get credits back from heroics, dailies and any other activity they use to get them. Farming 30-50 million in a week is definitely possible these days, so prices won't change for more then 2-4 weeks.

Edited by Toraak
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