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I'm confused about this Assualt Nerf


DJ_Viron

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Why exactly did this have to happen? Because it really feels like they may as well just give me a sword now with the god awful range of the vanguard. Seriously what was the logic behind this? It's not like they nerfed it for the comm either, just for Vanguards and powertechs.

 

If you think I'm joking let me be clear:

 

I'm not joking about this,

 

100% serious stuff here.

 

Someone explain, what the [expletive] happened?

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Why exactly did this have to happen? Because it really feels like they may as well just give me a sword now with the god awful range of the vanguard. Seriously what was the logic behind this? It's not like they nerfed it for the comm either, just for Vanguards and powertechs.

 

If you think I'm joking let me be clear:

 

I'm not joking about this,

 

100% serious stuff here.

 

Someone explain, what the [expletive] happened?

 

VG's have always been more of a melee range class (kinda weird, imo, being troopers and all :p) the assault specialist range nerf was to reinforce that. VG's were simply not meant to be a ranged class, unlike the commando. Also, with all the complaints BW was getting about assaults burst, another factor for it could be to help other ranged classes more easily deal with it. Im pretty sure those are the big two reasons :D

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Scrapper Scoundrels.

 

True but they have stealth.

 

The problem I have with it is while it is meant to be a CQC range class you only have 1 option to close the gap, unless you spec into tanking. That option also has a 45 second cooldown, compared to the only three CQC DPS which have a 15 second one or stealth. This is why they should have made Storm a trooper ability instead of a late tank tree ability. In PvP like Huttball where most of the arena is segregated by elevation this pretty much ruins Vanguards. You tank or you use grapple every 45 seconds. Why couldn't they just switch those two? Have storm replace grapple and give grapple a damage or a taunt or something.

 

I still however stand by the old Assault Specialist, it was only two abilities you could use at range and one ate up ammo and the other had a 15 second cooldown. I've seen more broken levels of DPS at range.

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Vanguards are not melee, nor are the ranged. They are a hybrid of sorts. 10m's is our optimum range only closing to 4 to stockstrike and gut then back to 10m's. You can strafe away to 30 to deliver sticky grenades,assault plastique, and HIB's but then it's back to 10m's. Vanguards are very mobile. Most of the attacks are instant. So really with a vanguard you should be always moving between 30-4 m's depending on the situation.
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I mean, you can still do more damage as an Assault Vanguard from 30m than any other melee class in the game. Isn't that enough reason not to have charge?

 

You have the strongest basic attack in the game, thanks to Rain of Fire and the ability to proc Plasma Cylinder with it about half the time (since each use of Hammer Shots actually counts as about 7 separate attacks, each with a chance to proc Plasma Cylinder).

 

Your strongest attack, that has its cd reset every 6-9 seconds, has a 30 meter range.

 

Sticky Grenade, a still decent attack, is also 30 meters and available every 15 seconds.

 

And on top of this, you're the only melee class in the game that has almost ALL of its main abilities have a 10 meter max range (only Stockstrike requires you to come into melee range), making you the only class that can effectively kite other melee in the dead zone (between 4 and 10 meters, where you can't be charged).

 

I mean if you think a Vanguard still isn't deadly at range you're doing it wrong. When I play mine, I open with Rapid Shots (usually proc Plasma Cell within the first shot or two), Sticky, and High Impact Bolt. That's about 7-9k damage if everything crits, before you even come near melee range (2k Sticky crit, 1.5k Hammer Shot crit, 5k High Impact Bolt, 500 damage from Plasma Cell tick, or more...).

 

That is ridiculous. Name me any other melee class in the game that can hit you for 8k+ in 3-4 GCD's before entering melee range.

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Why exactly did this have to happen? Because it really feels like they may as well just give me a sword now with the god awful range of the vanguard. Seriously what was the logic behind this? It's not like they nerfed it for the comm either, just for Vanguards and powertechs.

 

If you think I'm joking let me be clear:

 

I'm not joking about this,

 

100% serious stuff here.

 

Someone explain, what the [expletive] happened?

 

Even after the range reduction you can still do more damage at 30m than any other mele class and possible some ranged. Sorry, but that's the drawback of having the best burst in the game. And btw, your gap closer is a pull. If you can't be observant enough to not pull people with a full resolve bar then you need to L2P.

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Also, remember when possible, if you are fighting a major threat then drop both nades on him before you take any of his health off. This way by the time he realizes you are attacking him he lost a huge chunk of his life. Even many decent players will sometimes panic a tiny amount in this situation. Some people see them as finishers (or chartist onry ppl see one of them as aoe only) and while I do use them as finishers at times and see the reasoning behind this I know that If I'm fighting a marauder I know that doing this will make them blow their cds early and once this happens I can stun them and its gg me.
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Why does nobody ever think being able to pull people to you is a gap closer?

 

Because charge is more reliable and not effected by resolve. There are LOS issues that are kinda buggy with poon, that don't effect charge as much, even if they corner you, if it goes off you're going to get to where they were.

 

I haven't found the netf to be too odious in the sub 50 bracket, and tend to fight inside the 4m. Although I use my range stuff as I close, which is better than my jugg could do. I feel the nerf was laughable considering marauders didn't get a nerf and continue to get buffs, but at the end of the day it wasn't a killer

 

And one on one I still have my way with most classes, only a marauder with all his cool downs and vanish thingie up pose a problem, and even they aren't that big of an issue for me if i have cool downs and WZ stims up.

 

With all that said I haven't played my 50PT, i moved servers and rerolled so I have no idea how things are doing in the 50 bracket and ranked.

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Yes Harpoon is in many cases less effective as a DPS gap closer than Storm, however is there any reason to think that this is not intended?

 

As was already pointed out, out of the melee classes, Vanguards are easily the ones who are the best at range.

If Vanguards can both do top damage at melee range, very good within 10 m and still pretty good from up to 30 meter (a lot more damage than any other ranged class), while having a gap closer that's equal to the best gap closers in the game (in my opinion), doesn't that make it kind of overpowered?

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Yes Harpoon is in many cases less effective as a DPS gap closer than Storm, however is there any reason to think that this is not intended?

 

As was already pointed out, out of the melee classes, Vanguards are easily the ones who are the best at range.

If Vanguards can both do top damage at melee range, very good within 10 m and still pretty good from up to 30 meter (a lot more damage than any other ranged class), while having a gap closer that's equal to the best gap closers in the game (in my opinion), doesn't that make it kind of overpowered?

 

What you say makes sense until I think of Marauders and how silly OP they are. Or how the "smash" classes have almost made our dps obsolete by way of comparison.

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Why does nobody ever think being able to pull people to you is a gap closer?

 

Because I can't pull The Writhing Horror to me with harpoon. Because I can't pull karraga to me so I can get into my intended attack range as fast as other classes.

 

<in my best Napolean Dynamite voice> Why does everyone not think there's PvE in this game? Gawsh

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Why exactly did this have to happen? Because it really feels like they may as well just give me a sword now with the god awful range of the vanguard. Seriously what was the logic behind this? It's not like they nerfed it for the comm either, just for Vanguards and powertechs.

 

If you think I'm joking let me be clear:

 

I'm not joking about this,

 

100% serious stuff here.

 

Someone explain, what the [expletive] happened?

 

Like...you're seriously complaining about the range? I still get top damage in every single warzone and every raid group I'm in. Wanna know how? I use the same five abilities as I did before lol. I never played it as a range class because it isn't one.

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You know... I got on my VG last night who was once one of my top toons and it's just ...sad. He just stunk after 1.3 and I haven't played him in months whereas in pvp he used to be the bomb, top ranked, now he can't do much of anything. At least my powertech has flamethrower skills that are far more useful after the nerf:rak_03:. This class really got screwed. Waste of one of my coolest guys. They need to fix this already.
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Because I can't pull The Writhing Horror to me with harpoon. Because I can't pull karraga to me so I can get into my intended attack range as fast as other classes.

 

<in my best Napolean Dynamite voice> Why does everyone not think there's PvE in this game? Gawsh

 

What. The. <expletive deleted>.

 

Vanguard/Powertech DPS is the highest in the game right now in PvE, even with this "nerf". So bringing PVE into the equation makes absolutely no sense. If you play a Vanguard or Powertech, spec Pyro/Assault, and aren't at the top of every damage meter, you're doing it wrong.

 

You want a better gap closer? That's fine. Then lets also reduce the range on High Impact Bolt to 10 meters for Vanguards, the range on Ion Pulse to 4 meters, and lower the damage Plasma Cell does by 15%. There, now you're balanced with the other melee DPS classes in the game.

 

(this is coming from someone who has a Vanguard, but prefers not to spec Assault because of how maddeningly easy and overpowered it is)

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They should switch grapple with charge, meaning make grapple the one you have to spec into. With our new range limitations it is more equitable.

that would make the tank vanguard "leap" thing useless if its an ability that all vanguards get though... personally, I dont really think it made THAT big of a difference really...

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What. The. <expletive deleted>.

 

Vanguard/Powertech DPS is the highest in the game right now in PvE, even with this "nerf". So bringing PVE into the equation makes absolutely no sense. If you play a Vanguard or Powertech, spec Pyro/Assault, and aren't at the top of every damage meter, you're doing it wrong.

 

You want a better gap closer? That's fine. Then lets also reduce the range on High Impact Bolt to 10 meters for Vanguards, the range on Ion Pulse to 4 meters, and lower the damage Plasma Cell does by 15%. There, now you're balanced with the other melee DPS classes in the game.

 

(this is coming from someone who has a Vanguard, but prefers not to spec Assault because of how maddeningly easy and overpowered it is)

 

Actually, if you're a vanguard topping the DPS meter in PvE, I'd say the sentinels you're grouped with are doing it wrong.

 

The point is, other melee classes have a way to put themselves in melee range (quickly or unnoticed), whereas vanguards do not

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Vanguards are not melee, nor are the ranged. They are a hybrid of sorts. 10m's is our optimum range only closing to 4 to stockstrike and gut then back to 10m's. You can strafe away to 30 to deliver sticky grenades,assault plastique, and HIB's but then it's back to 10m's. Vanguards are very mobile. Most of the attacks are instant. So really with a vanguard you should be always moving between 30-4 m's depending on the situation.

 

Doesn't assault plastique have a 10m range?

 

Anyway, the VG is still awesome. You can strafe/kite melee players and burn them down in pvp. Pve is even more easy cause of the predictable mechanics of mobs. If you don't like it play a real ranged type, like GS, commando or operative.

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  • 3 weeks later...
You want a better gap closer? That's fine. Then lets also reduce the range on High Impact Bolt to 10 meters for Vanguards, the range on Ion Pulse to 4 meters, and lower the damage Plasma Cell does by 15%. There, now you're balanced with the other melee DPS classes in the game.

 

if you dont fight in the 4m range allready u are doing it wrong.

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if you dont fight in the 4m range allready u are doing it wrong.

 

what he said^... the nerf wasn't really a nerf they just did something to shut the QQ'ers up. You should always have been in melee range as it was now you have to. I used to get pst all the time while looking for a ranged dps by PT's and i don't know how many raged on me when i told them if they were playing the class right they should be in melee range.

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if you don't fight in the 4m range already, you are doing it wrong.

 

Optimally for Assault, you only want to be in 4m range when you are about to StockStrike, which should only be when you are wanting to reset your HIB. Otherwise, you should be attempting to maintain your distance at 10m to avoid those poor guys with the 4m range.

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