Weighing up the "this year" and how it's exact-wording can be taken, just had another troubling thought from re-watching the Erickson video.

 

"It's coming with full story" - whatever 'full story' entails, I'm not sure, but I'm feeling sceptical about it applying to RoTHC and its lack of Class Arcs. I don't know... here's hoping for something beyond the "please throw more money at our lack of information" pre-purchase page.

I don't see it as being at all ambiguous. 'This year' and 'within a year' don't mean the same thing. 'This year' means THIS year, the calendar year we are currently in. More pertinently, though, given the upheaval with staffing changes and other alterations it is entirely reasonable to assume that what was said at the Guild Summit is completely irrelevant now.

That prompts the question, though, of what we should assume is relevant. We've been told obliquely that there's 'no news' on SGRAs. Should we take that to mean the goal of 'this year' is still valid? If so, well, it's New Year's Eve in Australia and the US isn't that far behind. They're rapidly running out of time.

Or perhaps 'no news' means there's been no action on SGRAs - at all - since the Summit. Shouldn't we at least be told it's been delayed for an unspecified amount of time? We've been paying subscription fees for a long time now - since launch, for me. I have a Digital Deluxe edition of the game, I've never missed a payment, I've bought the expansion and I was in the beta. Lots of people are in the same boat (or similar) to me. Don't we deserve an update? I think we do.

While 'this year' isn't ambiguous (to me, at any rate) the issue of 'no news' is extremely ambiguous and BW:A are both insulting and negligent in not telling us a damn friggin' thing about what's going on. It's not that they can't. They just won't. It's a conscious, willful and calculated choice on their behalf. And I don't really care what their reasoning is on not telling us; while I recognise they don't want to spill the beans and they don't want a huge fight they could at the very least tell us something but we have to act out and cause a hell of a ruckus just to get them to acknowledge that we're asking about SGRAs.

The longer they wait the more sour their reception will be. They're doing this to themselves.

Yeah, just trying to give them the benefit of doubt - if suggesting they love Weasel Wordage can be called a 'benefit'.

Trying to give them the benefit of any doubt, really... hope springs eternal and all that, so I try. Oh my god do I try, I try all the ti... oh god, I'm quoting 4 Non Blondes...

Eh - it's New Year's, I'll be blind and singing along to depressingly-dated songs from my youth in a few hours anyway. I guess I just started early.

Yeah, just trying to give them the benefit of doubt - if suggesting they love Weasel Wordage can be called a 'benefit'.

 

Trying to give them the benefit of any doubt, really... hope springs eternal and all that, so I try. Oh my god do I try, I try all the ti... oh god, I'm quoting 4 Non Blondes...

 

Eh - it's New Year's, I'll be blind and singing along to depressingly-dated songs from my youth in a few hours anyway. I guess I just started early.

Quick Happy New Year to my friends Across the Pond, in NZ and Aussie Land! You guys please be safe, don't party too hard and try to relax and enjoy yourselves.

**hugs**

Reading through the comments I have to say that it is always fun to see people talking from the future

I haven't completely disappeared, btw.

It is pretty obvious the "due to time and money" BS was just a smokescreen to begin with. The decision to exclude SGRA content from the game was clearly done due to the ideology of BW-Austin's leadership during development.

Yeah, considering the original statement that there aren't any gay people in Star Wars, the time and money excuse has always seemed like a smokescreen to me. Either someone in charge didn't want homosexuality in the game, or someone made the assumption that not having it was what would be "appropriate" or "correct" for a Star Wars game.

The extra voice recording and programming time required to create a mechanism of gender checks for dialogue (both things done no where else in the game) to exclude the GLBT community from the game by itself would have been stricken from the development schedule if this was truly about time and money.

Well, I'm pretty sure there are a few alternate lines depending on gender, where the protagonist is referred to as either a man or a woman, so gender checks are definitely there. Gender-specific conversation trees, however, are exclusive to romance content.

Flawed (and at some points incredibly broken) as it is, I think Dragon Age II definitely had the right approach, despite all the complaints. Bi- or pansexual companion characters are the way to go, and are far from the least "realistic" things we see in this game. The real problem, in my mind, is that the romance arcs are so dependant on these completely one-dimensional approval systems... or (especially in Mass Effect) simply picking the nice or flirty option in conversation every time.

There's a fair number of us from Down Under (and environs) in this thread... So... Happy New Year (in a few hours, anyway)!

Hopefully we'll get this all settled one way or another soon.

Well, I haven't taken the time to read all 400+ pages of this thread, but until I took a look at the last page I had started to think the SGR content would be in the Expansion Patch (you know, the big patch that is included for those who don't get the expansion that covers all of the non-new content changes that weren't exactly fixes, such as patch 1.07 for Diablo II, as they actually changed the function of the Lightning Mastery skill for Sorceresses with that patch), since we've only got a handful of days left until the early access begins and the writers could very well already be working on the next expansion if they are that far ahead of everything else (which is quite probable considering how long the code and graphical sides of things can take, a story written in a week can take nearly a month to handle the rest). Of course, in my own observations Bioware isn't nearly as great of a company as they were a decade ago, with the lion's share of the slide happening post 'merger' (it's always felt more like having been completely bought out to me.....), and sadly most American companies aren't comfortable with 'freedom of choice' in things that go against the religious/moral beliefs of their higher ups, and that's all the more on that subject I'm even willing to go.

At present I'd say it's mostly a wait and see aspect, as if the SGR content isn't in the Expansion Patch I'd say it's a given that it'll never happen, and since two of the chars I'm creating are distinctly bi (I have certain character archetypes I work with in most games, Dragon Age being the only one so far where I haven't used any do to the lack of none of them fitting even reasonably well into the frame work of the class and specialization system utilized in Origins, I haven't made it to Awakening or DAII yet). If that does come to pass I might very seriously re-consider even continuing to support TOR, and since I'd finally gotten a computer that was high-enough spec to actually play the game and found out that they'd fixed the balancing issue with the cost of core skills (especially since they cost Credits to learn/upgrade, which typically is enough to turn me off from a game by itself, and the reason I've never played more than about 30 minutes of WoW) and found that the game might actually be worth subscribing to (and even recently subscribed) I might just decide to not even attempt to keep up with Mass Effect or Bioware properties in general. The only Star Wars RPG's I've ever found that I've enjoyed were by Bioware, and KotOR did include such content, and it has been in ever Bioware property I'm familiar with (I'm not familiar with Mass Effect in general, under-spec PC being the main reason) so such a departure from their norm would be a sign to me that they are no longer the company I'd liked and respected and that they aren't worth watching anymore. Heck, Square Enix has been very iffy as well. The Final Fantasy franchise has take a serious downgrade since Hironobu Sakaguchi left, and the last Star Ocean title barely feels like it belongs (and it's an 'alternate universe' one as well to separate it from the original series), only the Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts properties have remained relatively un-harmed by that merger, and are the only reason I still pay any attention to that company. I understand that companies will change over time, but when features/traits to their properties that used to be always included suddenly disappear, or are altered as to be unrecognizable, it's hard to call it a change for the better.

Well, that was a bit of a rant, and for now I guess I'll just enjoy the four chars I have created, and wait to see what happens when the Expansion Patch releases, which means that within the next 10 days I'm either going to be happy I've pre-ordered it or wondering why I ever wasted my time with trying to return to TOR.

The only Star Wars RPG's I've ever found that I've enjoyed were by Bioware, and KotOR did include such content, and it has been in every Bioware property I'm familiar with (I'm not familiar with Mass Effect in general, under-spec PC being the main reason) so such a departure from their norm would be a sign to me that they are no longer the company I'd liked and respected and that they aren't worth watching anymore.

I know I've said this before, but remember SW:TOR is made by BW-Austin which is separate from the BW-Edmonton team that has made all the great BW RPG's we love (BG, KotOR, JE, ME, DAO, etc.). While they share the BW name that seems to me to be about as far the association goes.

BW-Austin clearly has different guiding principles for their game design. BW-Edmonton takes a lot of pride in their inclusive game design and has long been a supporter of the GLBT community. BW-Austin clearly isn't.

I'll admit that I too have lost a great deal of interest in anything to do with BW, regardless of which studio a game is being made by, because of the Austin group's dismissal of the GLBT community. That doesn't mean I'll never buy a product from the Edmonton group again but I'll definitely be giving anything they make a close look before I do. I certainly wouldn't ever purchase anything from the Austin group again, though I imagine the Austin group's doors will simply be closed once TOR shuts down.

First off, good morning and Happy New Year's Eve! Happy New Year's to you non Yanks!

Forgive me for chopping up your post some. I thought it was well written, just a little cluttered in parts.

Well, I haven't taken the time to read all 400+ pages of this thread, but until I took a look at the last page I had started to think the SGR content would be in the Expansion Patch (you know, the big patch that is included for those who don't get the expansion that covers all of the non-new content changes that weren't exactly fixes, such as patch 1.07 for Diablo II, as they actually changed the function of the Lightning Mastery skill for Sorceresses with that patch), since we've only got a handful of days left until the early access begins and the writers could very well already be working on the next expansion if they are that far ahead of everything else (which is quite probable considering how long the code and graphical sides of things can take, a story written in a week can take nearly a month to handle the rest). Of course, in my own observations Bioware isn't nearly as great of a company as they were a decade ago, with the lion's share of the slide happening post 'merger' (it's always felt more like having been completely bought out to me.....), and sadly most American companies aren't comfortable with 'freedom of choice' in things that go against the religious/moral beliefs of their higher ups, and that's all the more on that subject I'm even willing to go.

They very well could be working on the next expansion. However, I do know that Alexander Freed said, just after he left the company, that there was more updates already in the pike. I think that they are working on getting the animation and graphics correct. In my opinion, I think any VOs and writing are already done for at least half a year's worth updates. It would be nice to see this game get a proper expansion, with new races and a continuation of class stories.

BioWare-Austin is so much different than BioWare-Edmonton it's glaring. BW: Edmonton does the DA and ME series and I can tell there is a lot of respect and love towards that fan base.

BW-Austin only does this game, and boy, does it show. I don't think I can use the words "love" and "respect" when it comes to how this branch treats all of its customers. Not just for this feature either.

When it comes to this game and it's lack of an update, what makes this silence so awful on their part is that EA and BioWare have publicly spoken out against such extremely family groups in the past.

It's even been over this very game.They've taken so many stances for LGBT rights that the way the treat the players in ToR makes no sense. It's pretty shameful and I hate seeing it. I do agree that the Almighty Dollar can rule all though, I just wish The Powers That Be would let the developers, writers and moderators speak to us.

At present I'd say it's mostly a wait and see aspect, as if the SGR content isn't in the Expansion Patch I'd say it's a given that it'll never happen, and since two of the chars I'm creating are distinctly bi (I have certain character archetypes I work with in most games, Dragon Age being the only one so far where I haven't used any do to the lack of none of them fitting even reasonably well into the frame work of the class and specialization system utilized in Origins, I haven't made it to Awakening or DAII yet). If that does come to pass I might very seriously re-consider even continuing to support TOR, and since I'd finally gotten a computer that was high-enough spec to actually play the game and found out that they'd fixed the balancing issue with the cost of core skills (especially since they cost Credits to learn/upgrade, which typically is enough to turn me off from a game by itself, and the reason I've never played more than about 30 minutes of WoW) and found that the game might actually be worth subscribing to (and even recently subscribed) I might just decide to not even attempt to keep up with Mass Effect or Bioware properties in general.

If you take a look at the Steam and Orgins sites, you can get the Ulitmate Edition of DA: O. It has all nine DLCs and Awakening. There is also a free promo going too on Orgins that will net you some sweet gear to start with. I've been playing the DA games as a break from ToR. Nothing wrong with ToR, but it had been years since I had played a BW game. I think since about 2004 or so, when the (redone) Neverwinter Nights 1 came out. I don't plan on playing the ME series or at least not for quite awhile. I also picked up KOTOR for about $5 on sale on Steam, so I'm checking that out too for the first time. Between KotOR, ToR and DA, I'm pretty full up on my game time.

The only Star Wars RPG's I've ever found that I've enjoyed were by Bioware, and KotOR did include such content, and it has been in ever Bioware property I'm familiar with (I'm not familiar with Mass Effect in general, under-spec PC being the main reason) so such a departure from their norm would be a sign to me that they are no longer the company I'd liked and respected and that they aren't worth watching anymore. Heck, Square Enix has been very iffy as well. The Final Fantasy franchise has take a serious downgrade since Hironobu Sakaguchi left, and the last Star Ocean title barely feels like it belongs (and it's an 'alternate universe' one as well to separate it from the original series), only the Dragon Quest and Kingdom Hearts properties have remained relatively un-harmed by that merger, and are the only reason I still pay any attention to that company. I understand that companies will change over time, but when features/traits to their properties that used to be always included suddenly disappear, or are altered as to be unrecognizable, it's hard to call it a change for the better.

I hear you about Square, and that is another one of my driving forces. I have watched some of my most beloved companies including Square and Blizzard not only squander their financial resources, but the good will of their fans/customers. I've gotten sick of it and I want to try to do something about it. Maybe it isn't much, but maybe we can get one big company like EA to actually listen for a bit. It's a stretch, but it is something myself and others are shooting for. I don't want to hurt or crush EA (not like I could,) but I do want this fully out in the open. I want full accountability from them regarding their double standards in all of this.

Well, that was a bit of a rant, and for now I guess I'll just enjoy the four chars I have created, and wait to see what happens when the Expansion Patch releases, which means that within the next 10 days I'm either going to be happy I've pre-ordered it or wondering why I ever wasted my time with trying to return to TOR.

No worries on the rant. If you go back about 10-20 pages, many of us have ranted in some way or another. As a lifelong gamer, I know that passion well.

Personally, I'm really excited about RotHC. I am going back into the game full throttle once it comes out. Doup has bad carpal tunnel, so he can't play much. He is going to order Makeb though, so we can finish our Pub toons together. They've been sitting at level 46 for months.

This is what our campaign needs! I thought I had remembered wrong but...

Maybe we should try cupcakes!

Baked goods! Anyone got some free time and access to high amounts of postage?

I can make gluten free cupcakes that actually taste really good.

hehe, I'd be all for something like that, Nat, but what message do we send with them?

^.^

I know I've said this before, but remember SW:TOR is made by BW-Austin which is separate from the BW-Edmonton team that has made all the great BW RPG's we love (BG, KotOR, JE, ME, DAO, etc.). While they share the BW name that seems to me to be about as far the association goes.

 

BW-Austin clearly has different guiding principles for their game design. BW-Edmonton takes a lot of pride in their inclusive game design and has long been a supporter of the GLBT community. BW-Austin clearly isn't.

 

I'll admit that I too have lost a great deal of interest in anything to do with BW, regardless of which studio a game is being made by, because of the Austin group's dismissal of the GLBT community. That doesn't mean I'll never buy a product from the Edmonton group again but I'll definitely be giving anything they make a close look before I do. I certainly wouldn't ever purchase anything from the Austin group again, though I imagine the Austin group's doors will simply be closed once TOR shuts down.

Agreed, this will be my last game with any non-Edmonton "Bioware". Considering David Gaider is manning the helm for Dragon Age 3 I'm going to at least give it a look.

I'd probably like this game much more or at least be more forgiving of it if it weren't a BW company.

hehe, I'd be all for something like that, Nat, but what message do we send with them?

 

^.^

Love is the Force.

The Force Knows No Bounds.

In rainbow writing on white icing. With rainbow hundreds and thousands.

Or "This Year" if you want to be mean

First off, good morning and Happy New Year's Eve! Happy New Year's to you non Yanks!

Happy New Years to everyone all around whether it is yet or not. It's funny people use Yanks to include all of the USA. Really it only ever applied to those of us in the very northeast of the country in New York State and Vermont way back when.

I'm a bit concerned about Makeb. I'm going to hold off getting it being that nothing has been said. About what's really in it. If SGR's are in it, I'll get it. If not, I'll shut the coffin on this game (for me), and move on to other games that have SGR's. Not sure what MMO's have them...but I have most of the Single player games that do. The fight in me is starting to fade. But if anyone on Ebon Hawk or Begeren Colony want to RP an SGR, I have a female Sith Warrior on Begeren Colony and a Female Sith Inquisitor on Ebon Hawk.

I'm a bit concerned about Makeb. I'm going to hold off getting it being that nothing has been said. About what's really in it. If SGR's are in it, I'll get it. If not, I'll shut the coffin on this game (for me), and move on to other games that have SGR's. Not sure what MMO's have them...but I have most of the Single player games that do. The fight in me is starting to fade. But if anyone on Ebon Hawk or Begeren Colony want to RP an SGR, I have a female Sith Warrior on Begeren Colony and a Female Sith Inquisitor on Ebon Hawk.

Pretty much everyone's waiting on more information for Makeb, most hoping that we'll be seeing more the closer to the early-access-order-date (which one would assume to be a logical* course of action).

I'm playing Pokemon White2 at the moment because the SO got me that for Christmas and my guild's on a Christmas break as well. For the most part I feel like I've exhausted most of my options - I have no idea how much an InterFlora to BW:Austin would be :/ Probably massive loads to send rainbow gerberas.

*ahaha

One day left on the sub... huh. "Should I stay or should I go now?"

Ah well, I can still log-in and see if the guild's doing anything today - if anyone's awake.

If I go silent, good luck everyone. It's been ... interesting. Have fun, and all that. Stay cool, and enjoy whatever comes next with this new year. (Even you, Ramette.)

Thanks everybody for their wishes ! Still a few hours left in 2012 here !

Pretty much everyone's waiting on more information for Makeb, most hoping that we'll be seeing more the closer to the early-access-order-date (which one would assume to be a logical* course of action).

 

Well, still have a shred of hope that BW hasnt been able to kill despite their efforts. Along with the actual planet content, there will be a lot of changes. I hope one of those will be SGRs

I'm playing Pokemon White2 at the moment because the SO got me that for Christmas and my guild's on a Christmas break as well.

I got a few more cheevos on Plants vs Zombies

Well, still have a shred of hope that BW hasnt been able to kill despite their efforts. Along with the actual planet content, there will be a lot of changes. I hope one of those will be SGRs

It says a lot about those who want SGRA's that they're still able to hope for it in spite of Bioware's best efforts. And boy, have Bioware tried.

I was talking a while back about how Bioware were or were not defining "this year" and it's likely that if SGRA's come out with Makeb, and Makeb is in March, then they can say it was within "this year" of the Guild Summit.

Bargh.

I was talking a while back about how Bioware were or were not defining "this year" and it's likely that if SGRA's come out with Makeb, and Makeb is in March, then they can say it was within "this year" of the Guild Summit..

You know, as much as I hate to admit it, it is entirely possible that they were speaking of this "Fiscal Year" which ends in March.

You know, as much as I hate to admit it, it is entirely possible that they were speaking of this "Fiscal Year" which ends in March.

It's a great deal more likely they were using a term they hoped would be anomalous and ambiguous enough to give them some wiggle-room in the event of not being able to get the feature out by the end of the year. It's highly unlikely they'd be willing to define 'this year' and really it's meaningless now. The staffing changes will have changed everything and BW:A just flatly refuse to state so.

And if they do get it out by the end of your fiscal year then certainly they'll claim that's what they meant all along. Political speech. Because actually just keeping us informed would be lowering themselves too much.

And if they do get it out by the end of your fiscal year then certainly they'll claim that's what they meant all along. Political speech. Because actually just keeping us informed would be lowering themselves too much.

And that was such a grand dream, back in the summer, to increase communication to the community. A grand dream that lasted all of two weeks, before the crushing weight of apathy grasped a hold of reality and they drowned together.

As the Community Team are going to back to work on the 7th at the earliest, what does everyone expect them to be commenting on? I suspect they are going to pop into the numerous Hutt Cartel threads and tell people that "magical" things are coming, hold the hands of the people wanting hood toggles, continue to ignore those on the APAC servers and give us a patronising "Happy New Year" message.

You know what I really wonder, though? Not even the NPCs can be gay. Nowhere in all the galaxy have I ever seen an indication from background NPCs that they might prefer a lap dance from someone who isn't a woman - or that they be wanting to be chatted up by the lady in the Mandalorian armour, rather than the sleazy wanna-be smuggler who just dragged himself out of the latrine. That takes an outstanding amount of effort and forethought, I say.

If nothing else, when Bioware said "gays don't exist in Star Wars" they meant it.