Why not allow the crafting of elite war hero and let people craft and GTN sell that?

I'm not a crafter and already have mostly optimized ewh, but think this is an excellent idea. Maybe give it schems for this stuff to armormechs and synths or something, instead of letting CTs and artificers make all the money.

I remember a time when you could look at a persons gear and get a rough idea of how good they were... Not anymore..

 

What?

I remember a time when you could look at a persons gear and get a rough idea of how good they were... Not anymore..

 

QUOTE]

 

i understand what you are saying and agree with you. however wow and wow clone players will not fully understand what you just said. in the more challenging mmos where end game gear wasn't easily crafted or even crafted. raid instances not nerfed after a few weeks. no story modes where fights can be learned. no walkthroughs posted in the forums before the new instances were released and even then not months afterwards. your statement carried more weight and is true.

 

however, today's wow and wow clone mmos changed all of that as such mmo players will cling to thinking "if i have the gear i am good" mentality. it is true in these other mmos you could pay for runs too but that is only just before a new level cap or expansion is being released making such gear obsolete. still everyone knew you did it too. in those games gear was a badge of excellence which you carried proudly and was enough ego satisfaction in itself. players on the server knew who the top guilds are without any world first or server first in game rankings.

 

the op has a valid point. the mechanic of crafting such gear as it is today needs some modifications or perhaps just have a vendor in fleet where you can pay 20 million credits or what ever and get a full set. essentially that is what you are doing and the only people hurt by doing such will be high end ops guild crafters. not the average ones. but we all know this will never happen as the wow clone mold of stupid easy obtainable gear and content for everyone is what the average to poor players want. these far out number the rest as most of those have left the game. as long as this mechanic is not currently sinking the financial boat it wont change. i just keep telling myself to embrace the game for what it is and stop dreaming of such changes. it just wont happen.

They did that because this game have a bunch of casual players, so you can "buy" your max-tier equip.

I like that, makes the game fun for everyone, you have only 3, 4 hours per week to play the game and wish to be full dread guard, you can.

I'm so glad there are others that feel like us well if bioware does not fix guilds like ours will start , not selling on gtn and only sell to trusted players ....and it negatively affect the gtn ..........

This doesn't make much sense. You're saying that because you don't like the price depreciation caused by schem stealing (which is a fair point), you'll respond by....price gouging your friends at less total profit instead of making more total profit on sales to strangers. Seems like you, your friends and the GTN all lose your way. Cutting off your nose to spite your own face.

Hey there,

I am Kanre I am GM of Friendly Fire who are currently ranked 1 in the world of 16 man.

[...]

I feel people who have not cleared any of the content let alone stepped foot in it , have these resipys that we worked hard to get …. I do not feel that buying gear is paying to win you earn your credits you should spend them on what you want, however I do feel that bioware is penalising those who work to get the recipes by letting any tom dick or harry revers them off the gtn witch kills the market …… bio ware you wander why you need a credit sinks??? it is because people do this and do not raid to spend the credits on repairs, on consumables. Use your brains plz …. And fix this

 

From kanre

Agreed on this one!

This I agree with 100 %

 

My guild has been farming Terror HM for a long time...

[...]

It dont care if people choose to gear up their chars by buying the armoring, mods and enhancements, it how I have geared up several alts, but only people that has "earned" it should be able to craft them.

Also, agree!

How I read OP's post was like this

"Everyone can grind materials to get BiS 63 quite fast, but it does not give them necessary skills for EC NiM."

 

I also picked a subtle hint about him wanting people to progress operations to actually learn how to play.

 

Once again: skill > gear.

THAKY YOU!!! Thats what I was getting at.

I am glad they can all be crafted.

Our main healer left the game entirely so we had to get another and get him geared.

I was able to level my sage and get him geared in fairly short order due to this.

I was not cheap, and the entire team had to pitch in but it was doable.

Had they not been craftable I'd have spent forever farming the same content over and over again due to the terrible itemization in the gear sets.

Not Fun.

Thow in the fact that I wanted to use the battlemaster gear for my sage due to the set bonus and I had to get crafted stuff for it. Else i'd lose the set bonus.

So

suck it up guys, just because someone can craft the gear doesn't diminish your accomplishment one bit.

Hell in my view it's a sterling tribute to your abilities.

Well, what bugs me is that people forget that they raid with no more with 7 to 15 team mates at the time and instead of worrying of:

1) improving yourself

2) helping teammates to get better

they worry the crap out of themselves so that XYZ thousands of other players they never meet have it worse.

What also bugs me is that it has been clearly said by BW that it is not a bug or exploit so "no crime without law" but there are still people trying to pin crafters for masses tags of cheaters and exploiters.

The word is not bug, it is not exploit, the proper word is generic business.

What is very funny is the hypocrisy of people complaining about it because:

1) there would never been any problem with generic business if elitist could suck up their greed and kept rigor of using the gear for the internal use only instead trying to make millions on others in the first place

2) people complaining did magically complete very quickly their BiS gears without e.g. weeks of killing EC NiM bosses to get one token with BiS mod in game (belt?).

So, when I get BiS slot with generic = good, when others can got it too = bad. Classic.

Thanks for cheer.

I've been playing swtor for the last year. Ive completed all content with the exception on NiM EC (on kephiss). 4 BiS 61 toons, 1BiS 63 toon. What gripes me (but seemingly noone else) is people paying to win. An no, Im not talking about the Cartel Market. Im talking about people crafting 63 armorings/mods/enhancements. My old guild had 4-5 regular raiders that bought, with credits, a full set of dread gear. I was against this for the simple fact- not once did we set foot in TfB HM at that time. So going in on our first run most people had BiS 63 gear. I have nothing against people who down this raid crafting the gear because they earned it. But a bunch of people who have a hard time downing EC hard in dread gear should not be buying it, they should work for it. Or am I horribly wrong?

well it's your opinion, and we all know about opinions...don't we...

This doesn't make much sense. You're saying that because you don't like the price depreciation caused by schem stealing (which is a fair point), you'll respond by....price gouging your friends at less total profit instead of making more total profit on sales to strangers. Seems like you, your friends and the GTN all lose your way. Cutting off your nose to spite your own face.

"Schem stealing"?

So you think that it's "fair" to design the game in a way that allows someone to RE a schematic, but no one else can until they've gone through the same op week after week after week with no success, giving you a monopoly strangle-hold on the market for months?

Granted, that's pretty much exactly how copyright laws and patents work. But this isn't a court of law or a session of Congress. It's a game. And as such, a monopoly strangle-hold would be severely game-unbalancing.

One or two people who rake in hundreds of millions of credits in profits simply by the luck of a mouse click, only to get bored and quit the game doesn't sound like much fun.

"Schem stealing"?

So you think that it's "fair" to design the game in a way that allows someone to RE a schematic, but no one else can until they've gone through the same op week after week after week with no success, giving you a monopoly strangle-hold on the market for months?

Yes...The first person getting the schem has to go trough exactly that. S/he should be rewarded by being able profit greatly from it until someone else manage to do the same.

"Schem stealing"?

So you think that it's "fair" to design the game in a way that allows someone to RE a schematic, but no one else can until they've gone through the same op week after week after week with no success, giving you a monopoly strangle-hold on the market for months?

 

Granted, that's pretty much exactly how copyright laws and patents work. But this isn't a court of law or a session of Congress. It's a game. And as such, a monopoly strangle-hold would be severely game-unbalancing.

One or two people who rake in hundreds of millions of credits in profits simply by the luck of a mouse click, only to get bored and quit the game doesn't sound like much fun.

Whoah, when did I say all that?

You're reading way too much into me understanding that crafters (I am not one) might be a little sore about someone buying their item, learning the schem and then undercutting them on the market. I didn't suggest actually -doing- anything about it, either on the part of the crafters or on the part of Bioware.

I'm for whatever creates a robust market because working the economy is as viable a way to play the game as raiding/pvp/whatever.

This sort of thing has been happening ever since BH comms were added to the group finder.

Quite a while back, I was doing a gear run on HM EV for some new guildies. One player (a shadow dps in black hole gear) was unable to kill his Infernal Council member. In fact, when the timer ran out his target was still at 40% health.

While wearing level 61 gear. O.o

The other shadow dps in that same raid, wearing mostly Columi gear, was able to successfully defeat her target with time to spare.

Anyone can shortcut the path to obtain gear. In fact, the Cartel Market has made it even easier. Just take a look at how many people sell Cartel Packs directly, turning real-world dollars into credits they can use to buy crafted gear.

But honestly, this sort of stuff doesn't really bother me personally. It is very very easy to identify the skilled players vs the unskilled ones. The skilled ones are invited to TfB/EC. The unskilled ones aren't.

Or am I horribly wrong?

Yes, you are.

but people who never set foot in the instant have half the res ....... how is that fair ....

It isn't.

BiS Schematics are a reward for doing well in Operations. They're not supposed to be available for people with lots of cash irl. But that's the way the world works, he who has the dough makes the rules.

How I read OP's post was like this:

"Everyone can grind materials to get BiS 63 quite fast, but it does not give them necessary skills for EC NiM."

I also picked a subtle hint about him wanting people to progress operations to actually learn how to play.

 

Once again: skill > gear.

I find this rather funny in a gear-based game such as this one.

I find this rather funny in a gear-based game such as this one.

You done NiM EC? You can have full 63 mini-maxed but if you suck you'll wipe and wipe and wipe on just the first boss alone.

I find this rather funny in a gear-based game such as this one.

I've seen 4 people in Tionese gear steamroll HMLI and 4 others in Black Hole gear fail on LR-5 consistently.

How is that not a perfect example of skill > gear?

I've seen 4 people in Tionese gear steamroll HMLI and 4 others in Black Hole gear fail on LR-5 consistently.

 

How is that not a perfect example of skill > gear?

There's a difference between "skill > gear" and "skill and gear are of varying comparative import across various fields of play being assumed to be present in roughly equal measure for content with an applicable reward". You're specifically pointing out one of the more egregious examples of a place where skill is of absolute primal import: if you can't handle the mechanics of HM LI, you're not going to clear it no matter how good your gear is. However, "skill > gear" is no more true than "gear > skill" since there are explicit times where, no matter how skilled you are, you're just not gonna be able to handle it in crappy gear: you can't clear NiM EC or HM TfB in an ops groups filled to the brim with unoptimized Tionese geared characters since you can't beat the enrage timers, the incoming damage would be too high, and the healers wouldn't be able to keep up.

TOR is not a game where gear or skill are arbitrarily intended to take absolute precedence over the other as a measure of whether you'll be successful or not. They're intended to work in sync. Nominally, your gear and your skill should be roughly commensurate (which is probably one of the problems that the OP believes should happen), but it doesn't always happen. Some of the best players will be handicapped by running with friends that just can't pull their weight and some of the worst will be blessed by highly skilled guildies that will carry them through anything and everything.

*However*, one thing to note about this is that gear can be fixed while it's quite difficult to "fix" skill problems, which is one reason why the "skill > gear" argument has some degree of merit: in a game where gear is so easy to acquire, especially since, for many players that play regularly, they're quite easily capable of having their gear outstrip their own skills, if you're looking for someone to recruit, gear matters less than the skill of the person because it's so easy to simply get that person gear (in a single night of running, I've seen fresh guildies go from Tionese/recruit starting gear to full or near-full Black Hole/Camp with Rakata filling out the rest without spending a credit).

Basically, the game requires both skill *and* gear to succeed at the top tier of content. The gear itself is almost laughably easy to get nowadays, so it's not a major concern. The skill, however, is harder to get (though sometimes I wonder how people can *not* understand simple concepts like "don't stand in the fire", "spread out", and "interrupt" or even how they can get to level 50, spend 2 months playing said class at 50, and *still* not have the slightest notion that using Tk Throw as a DPS Shadow is a terrible idea) and, as such, is generally held in higher esteem, not by innate importance based upon game design, as many people try to claim, but by its general rarity.

One comment, three headshots. That's skill right there.

The game is laughably easy 95% of the time. It's harder in the last 5% only becase of lower enrage timers and heavier hits. Rinse and repeat until you get the mechanic down, gg. Skill requirement (in a game that emphasises gear, has medpacks and other buffs available at any point in time) is moderate at best.

@OP: I agree with you. I think BW will make sure that you cannot RE someone else's crafted gear. The problem wasn't so much that you can RE mods and stuff (that's what it's there for and taking it away will make those crafting professions useless). The problem was that you could RE someone else's gear so people were just swapping recipes making all mods, enh, etc. available within the first couple weeks.

I'm all for having to earn the gear by actually doing endgame stuff such as weeklys and operations to get said gear, but how will you justify that to crafters if they cannot craft those mods?

Also, if BW hadn't allowed all of this it would have taken a very, very, very long time for my maruader to be BiS as basically the 56 Str / 44 Power mod comes from one piece of gear - the belt. That means I would have had to have farmed 9 belts just to get BiS. And I'm competing against others for the same thing?

That's not going to fly with me. Until BW comes up with a way to reforge like WoW or finally makes their gear BiS as is, I'm not going to waste time farming 9 of the same item. If that happens in the next operation where I can't get my BiS mods crafted and they still can't itemize, I probably will quit.