You guys haven't played ESO have you, because you're saying stuff about it just like the 'never tried it but I read' myths about preferred status for SWTOR. You can upgrade your bank storage for a reasonable (though significant when you start) amounts of in game currency, and there's an add-on you can use to simulate the same functionality as the subscriber crafting bank (when you come back from adventuring, go to the bank and it automatically deposits crafting mats, not one by one by hand). It feels pretty much the same. For ESO, you sub for the crowns and access to DLC.

 

Yeah their store is priced to double dip, just like SWTORS measly 500. Same effect, both companies are shooting for your stipend and a bonus spend every month.

 

I still think the high ground for SWTOR is to improve the sub value, get rid of the restrictions, so people like you guys in other games can't tell the same stories about SWTOR keeping people away. Given bioware Austin is solving all their other offices problems SWTOR won't be getting content enough to run like eso. Making the sub attractive is the best I say.

I agree this game should be buy 2 play... like eso and gw2 this would give the developers incentive to make NEW content on a REGULAR basis.. that way they get paid. New dlc, new expansions, new cash shop items.. things that people want to buy. Have the sub optional for those that don't want to or can't buy the new content outright.. with sub comes free dlc besides (new) expansions. Right now they basically give you little for your subscription because you repeat the same old content for years at a time. All they give you should be included with the box price. Maybe add some bonuses for those that would like to stay subscribed like cartel coins stipend, xp boost bonuses, % off cartel market, new pets and companions for subscriber rewards.. decos, etc. You can put VALUE back into the subscription and let those that want to pay once enjoy the game without restrictions! I think you would actually make more money in the long run, extend the life of the game, and bring more players back to the game while boosting new players with the new content and incentives.

Not to mention, how many people buy offline games, pay $90 upwards for a game they complete in a couple of hours, then never play again? Look in to many gamers houses, and you see piles of unplayed games :/. At least if you sub, there's a chance you play a lot. At least I do. I've never had a problem subbing, I've gotten lots of content, and hours of fun on this game. There have been times I've been P'd off, but that happens in most games. Subbed since about 1.2, will be a sub till the shut the servers, and will hopefully be there like the last few mins of SWG

 

Same here, except I've been subscribed since about 5.0. Either way, I don't mind paying the $15/month for what I've gotten out of the game, and I'll be around until it goes offline, which hopefully, isn't anytime soon.

Think of it like Netflix, phone service, cable TV, etc.

 

This game is a service. My only gribe is the monthly sub is suppose to be for content and content is trickling slower then an old man peeing.

Think of it like Netflix, phone service, cable TV, etc.

 

This game is a service. My only gribe is the monthly sub is suppose to be for content and content is trickling slower then an old man peeing.

 

Hey ! Wait just a second ! About that old man peeing !!

 

Really ???

 

:eek:

 

I'm sure you meant something else: more like trickling slower than gran pappy's ol' moonshine still !

 

:D:D

You mentioned how a one-time purchase would supposedly be better from a player perspective, which would be the business model of GW2 and the likes, and I explained why it is not. Pretty straight-forward.

 

No... I mentioned "cheaper"... Two different terms, two different meanings... If something is cheaper, that does not necessarily mean its better... You see, "cheaper" is matter of math and numbers... "better" is mostly matter of perspective, so if its "better" for me, that does not mean its also "better" for you...or for company, for that matter..... Try to read exactly how it's written....

I dont mind SWTOR sub if that is what you thinking, because if i would, then i would not pay sub... And really, for SWTOR is really to late to change monetization, they can only soften up restrictions on false F2P and preferred players, and that is exactly what they are doing...

Edited June 25, 2019 by denisdenizg

This game is a service. My only gribe is the monthly sub is suppose to be for content and content is trickling slower then an old man peeing.

 

You'll be getting there too just wait, it's fun standing up 3 times at night to pee once...

Apart from content the game needs to bring in cash to keep everything running, what do you think the license cost of Star Wars ? Or you don't mind to run around as a Jodi or a Seth if the license is revoked by Disney ? (If they even keep this going once they loose the license).

Just add another premium sub model will do, many of us needs alot of cartel coins to unlock collections etc.

I think the system is well setup. The subscription model has proved its usefulness in many other games. SWTOR is doing well with subscriptions and also the Cartel Market, I wouldnt change a thing.

Apart from content the game needs to bring in cash to keep everything running, what do you think the license cost of Star Wars ? Or you don't mind to run around as a Jodi or a Seth if the license is revoked by Disney ? (If they even keep this going once they loose the license).

 

It's not just the license .. I can't help but to wonder what percentage of the net income goes to Disney.

 

Any way you look at it. It all comes down to $$$$$.

 

Hopefully there can be enough time and money both to go around and the people who are doing the work can really do right in 6.0 I'm certain that there is enough stress to go around more than once in that area.

 

I'm personally hoping the best for both the employees that are doing the work in this game ... and for us as consumers.

So far I've paid the following for SWTOR:

$115 x 2 for the "Collector's Edition = $230

$15 x 2 x 90 months = $2,700

 

So, a total of $2,930 that does *not* include the expansions, subscriptions for other family members here and there and then thousands of dollars in Cartel Coins.

 

When they removed Cartel Certificates so that my Cartel reputation would become pointless we just completely stopped playing the game. We spent literally thousands of dollars on Cartel reputation then POOF... gone. That and the consumable dye packs. It's just a joke.

 

I keep my subs just because, whatever but we don't play the game at all anymore.

Apart from content the game needs to bring in cash to keep everything running, what do you think the license cost of Star Wars ? Or you don't mind to run around as a Jodi or a Seth if the license is revoked by Disney ? (If they even keep this going once they loose the license).

 

Bioware will definitely not keep this going once their license is done. Though it's possible there will still be some way to play it afterwards like other MMOs that were shut down in the past. Like SWG.

Bioware will definitely not keep this going once their license is done. Though it's possible there will still be some way to play it afterwards like other MMOs that were shut down in the past. Like SWG.

 

How much longer does BW have on their license ?

 

It could also be renewed. That would mean a serious confab between BW / EA and Disney.

How much longer does BW have on their license ?

 

It could also be renewed. That would mean a serious confab between BW / EA and Disney.

 

We don't know anything about the license agreement between Bioware and Lucasarts, do we? What we know is that it predates EA's and Disney's involvement and may just as well be valid for the whole lifetime of the game.

 

In 2013, Disney and EA have agreed on an exclusive 10 year license for future Star Wars games. When the deal ends, that doesn't mean EA has to stop selling or maintaining their existing games, it just means there will be new license negotiations when EA wants to make more SW games, and other game studios can ask for permission to use the Star Wars IP as well.

Edited June 25, 2019 by Mubrak

We don't know anything about the license agreement between Bioware and Lucasarts, do we? What we know is that it predates EA's and Disney's involvement and may just as well be valid for the whole lifetime of the game.

 

In 2013, Disney and EA have agreed on an exclusive 10 year license for future Star Wars games. When the deal ends, that doesn't mean EA has to stop selling or maintaining their existing games, it just means there will be new license negotiations when EA wants to make more SW games, and other game studios can ask for permission to use the Star Wars IP as well.

 

I agree. This makes sense. Hopefully in there somewhere both BW and EA figure out the best business model as well as good content for all concerned.

 

Truthfully ... I hope it all works out. That would be in everyone's best interest ! IMO !

OK, then how does the staff get paid? you really think that the cartel market will fund it in total? It would be that or adverts every few mins. The sub is not all that much. BW could lower it and remove the 500CC grant but I would much rather have it how it is. On the other side at one time along with your sub you had to buy the xpacs, now they are free with just a one months sub for all that had come out so far up till sub ends. That to me is very fair.

 

Let's see, Elder Scrolls Online does pretty damned well for itself. Most of the players do not subscribe.

Apart from content the game needs to bring in cash to keep everything running, what do you think the license cost of Star Wars ? Or you don't mind to run around as a Jodi or a Seth if the license is revoked by Disney ? (If they even keep this going once they loose the license).

 

The license is probably a one time fee.

And how many $ do you think most of the players of ESO and GW2 spend from the time the game was released to the next expansion? I am pretty sure not nothing. As Umbrak, UmbralSpirit and me explained, GW2 and ESO are not as much one time purchases as they appear at first, because they generate their cash flow by artificially limiting mechanics like inventory space and loot boxes which you can lift with real money. All the while bringing out new story chapters and dungeons for which you have to pay again if you want to run them at all or not be limited by a harsh lockout.

 

The psychological manipulation you rightfully stipulate for the old-fashioned subscription model of WoW, SWTOR and the likes is most certainly not different from the manipulation of the supposed one time purchase of ESO, GW2 and their fellows in terms of trying to make the biggest buck. It's just a different business model and I would even claim that the latter model (which took the newly developed monetization scheme of mobile games in the wake of smartphones as an example) tends to fall way more into the category of manipulation, since it is steeped in background cashing.

 

Well let's see, I am a subscriber to ESO so I will correct your mistakes. 1) Inventory space is paid for with in game coin; 2) there are no such things are loot boxes per se. There are crown crates which is exactly what the SWTOR cartel crates are; 3) ESO does not limit the game mechanics to anyone. They don't tell you that you can only have 3 skill bars; they don't make you pay for dungeons. So in fact, you have no idea what ESO is doing. Most of the players in ESO are not subscribers and ESO does so much better than SWTOR in keeping players in the game. SWTOR needs to do something because players in the game are sparse. Yes, I'm a subscriber to both ESO and SWTOR but that doesn't mean that SWTOR's model is any good. It isn't. If it was, players wouldn't have left in droves.

Well let's see, I am a subscriber to ESO so I will correct your mistakes. 1) Inventory space is paid for with in game coin; 2) there are no such things are loot boxes per se. There are crown crates which is exactly what the SWTOR cartel crates are; 3) ESO does not limit the game mechanics to anyone. They don't tell you that you can only have 3 skill bars; they don't make you pay for dungeons. So in fact, you have no idea what ESO is doing. Most of the players in ESO are not subscribers and ESO does so much better than SWTOR in keeping players in the game. SWTOR needs to do something because players in the game are sparse. Yes, I'm a subscriber to both ESO and SWTOR but that doesn't mean that SWTOR's model is any good. It isn't. If it was, players wouldn't have left in droves.

 

I have just a couple of rebuttals to a couple of your points. First, was ESO built and launched as F2P or was it changed? Second, call them crown crates or "surprise mechanics" as EA just claimed they were. They are still loot boxes, and this includes hypercrates. Third, this is from a quick search on ESO forums:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/399279/eso-population-size-are-we-losing-players

 

So I guess stating that ESO is doing so much better then SWTOR in regards to player retention, so obviously that is your personal opinion in regards to that fact. And finally, the skill bars. I don't have any idea why anyone would need more then 3 regardless. I have been playing on and off from launch, and have never even used more the 3 bars, and that was even when the characters had more skills to use.

 

I think you are arguing for F2P for your own reasons (which is fine), but the facts you provided above seem more of a personal statement, rather then a fact. I think all MMOs gain and lose players it is the nature of the beast, but the worlds I have been on lately seem pretty populated. The only problem I do see with SWTOR, and to which I have started doing myself, is that it seems they want to cater to people that do not sub regularly, or reward people that do and stick to their guns about it. Especially after this whole HK thing. So now, rather then being a full time sub, I have been turned into someone that may sub a month or two and get my toons caught up then I unsub.

 

If this game ever went full F2P the doors would be closed within a year. Yes that is my assumption, not being stated as fact.

Let's see, Elder Scrolls Online does pretty damned well for itself. Most of the players do not subscribe.

 

Unless you have access to their financials this is an assumption to prove your point.

How many $ did you spend from last expansion till today? I just wonder... LoL... From player point of view, it would be way cheaper to one time pay this game, and then pay for expansion again... But from company point of view, it is better for them to earn on little transactions every now and then, that in most cases gets underlooked by players...Because ts 15$ per month right? Who cares for 15$, but when you add all those little micro transactions from last exp till today, well its not so small sum of money... Its pure psychological manipulation....

 

You would expect if they did have it so you paid for the game and subsequent subs, we could have an expansion once every 11-18 months. Which would be similar to what we pay through subs.

The difference would be “everyone” would need to pay if they wanted to play the game and expansions. There would be no F2P as such. Which means more people paying and not freeloading = more money.

This is how other “AAA” games are able to offer good quality content on a more regular basis.

Bioware could still add a subscriber model too, just cheaper. And of course, there would still be the cash shop for vanity items.

I would rather pay for an expansion and get “good” and in-depth content than get it free as part of the sub.

Edited June 25, 2019 by TrixxieTriss

Unless you have access to their financials this is an assumption to prove your point.

 

Are you kidding? ESO isn't making enough money to keep them happy? For my play style their content release schedule is too fast. You get bowled over by new content before you can blink. They're boasting their million counts as well, so something is going right.

 

The only proof I can offer is personal experience with both games. ESO feels like you want to throw money at them, all you need is the shopping list and boom no brainer. Meanwhile with SWTOR I'm a veteran at playing blood out of stone simulator, to perfectly match how they feel about me by declaring restrictions and being tight with the store currency.

 

The reason its odd is I like SWTOR better. The quest presentation is great, the rotations are just right, and I really like the style and range of cosmetics here. It feels so dumb to be fighting it instead of enjoying a win / win relationship with this game.. its a tug of war for who keeps the high ground... as there's always some bad blood in the equation of giving them money.*

 

As a tangent, I think SWTOR is too generous in terms of cosmetics. When they went free to play, they should have pulled all all but one or two basic sets per class, and put them into a another tier of cartel outfits.. stupidly cheap like 60/120 cc's each and a 40 or so to unlock. That would have made no brainer purchases, got many more people into preferred (more characters, less very valid quicker rage etc, might have stuck around longer), and more money. There's way too much choice if you're borderline on not caring about cosmetics to go look at the store.

 

*At the most basic level.. the train of thought goes like this -> I buy things I want. -> There's direct CC purchases. -> But I'm still restricted. -> Okay, I'll subscribe. -> Hey wait, the CC grant is so low its a joke. -> 2/3rds of my money just went to bioware smugly making money for zero content in return -> I just got extorted, the *(&*(*s -> Im going to LOSE the value of what I bought in 29 days. -> HELL NO I'LL LIVE WITH IT AND THEY CAN GO F THEMSELVES. -> Original desire for CC purchases totally forgotten. This has happened dozens of times over the years for me.

Edited June 26, 2019 by stockmks

The license is probably a one time fee.

 

If you think Lucasfilm took only one fee since 2012, you obviously know nothing about how licensing fees work.

If you think Lucasfilm took only one fee since 2012, you obviously know nothing about how licensing fees work.

 

No disrespect to either of you.. BUT...

 

In a game of this nature since it is based on Star Wars.. the probability is that it was negotiated with specific terms and conditions that had to be agreeable to both parties. In other words more than likely not a standard contract.

 

To what extent that contract has it limitations and its longevity... we're all just guessing. If I had to add to that guess I would also surmise that there are clauses for renewals ... depending upon how BOTH parties agree upon the games past history ... primarily its P & L .

 

Again.. this is just my own opinion and a guess at best. But I do believe that there is some hard core truth in there as well. If (whomever is at the top of the food chain) at BW and EA believe it's worth it they will seek the opportunity to negotiate with Disney / Lucas Films (whomever is necessary) and retain an extension to any and all contracts needed. If not: then things will begin to wind down as there will be only a small(er) crew left to work on the game.