I would be really interested to find out how many players are completing these missions and if it was worth the development time put into them.

 

The diffculty of the missions seems dialed up too high and I can't see the reason for it. It really isn't balanced for the reward but thats only the tip of the problem. The incredible gear grind to get to the point of just being able to fly them must be a massive turn off for all but hard core space fans (unless you use the cartel market or gtn from the cartel market). But then I don't see where the fun comes repeating the same mission learning where all the enemies come from (its a rail shooter they never change) and then by trial and error and a lot of luck getting through.

 

The control is so limited in a rail shooter there is no feeling of a difficult dog fight against an ace its pew pewing at targets hoping they will go down and I would love to see the metrics of the game and how much this has added to the star wars experience.

 

No completions here. Not even close with all T6 gear. Total massacre in under 30 seconds in most of them. Tried each of them at least a couple times. This after running the previous 3 level 50 missions almost daily with only one hand, using peripheral vison only, and watching tv.

 

Not interested enough to hack off both left limbs in order to finance the T7 parts required for a real attempt at finishing them. The rewards suck too; it would take months just to recoup the cost of getting set up to run them assuming you could complete them with T7 parts.

 

Total negative experience for me.

Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

 

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

 

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

 

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

 

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

 

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

 

They do exist! Passes out. ;p

Edited December 14, 2012 by Blackardin

I reckon they were testing the waters with this idea. They've already put p2w items in the market already with the lvl 10 and lvl 35 high grade colour crystals which are clearly pay to win as they are BiS for any sub 50, especially for the pvp twinks. A couple of threads were made in protest, but not many people really cared, sub 50 pvp is a side show, nothing more.

 

Now they've added in a BiS set of items to the cartel store, but for a part of the game no one really gives a flying fudge about, just to gauge the reaction.

 

You have your answer EAware, DO NOT WANT.

Now the real question is why are they even obtainable in the cash shop in the first place ?

 

No purple items should be there. Period.

 

They are there because there are people such as myself that play the game and can afford the nine dollars it cost to buy them but do not have the time to run every mission, every day for 60 days....and I enjoy them.

 

Some of us don't live the game, some do. If you would rather earn them in game, then earn them in game. I'll do a little of each as time permits. How I play does not affect you at all.

 

Bottom line here is that you are not the only one playing the game and though I can respect your opinion, I disagree with it, or your contention that because you do not want to buy them, no one should be able to. I personally do not enjoy mind numbing grinding. We are not in direct competition in space as we would be in PvP so no harm no foul.

 

You play your way, I'll play my way. That is what they are allowing to occur.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Blackardin

My buying them with CC does not affect crafting at all as they are already on the GTN and going for 300k and up.

 

Absolutely untrue. The mats alone to make a single ship part cost nearly $1 million credits.

 

None of the parts on the Jedi Covenant Server are crafted; they are all put there from straw purchases off the Cartel Market. How could I tell? No crafter name tag on a single one of them. Why would a crafter even bother when they are undercut by 70% of breaking even?

Edited December 14, 2012 by DAMossimo
for spelling error

Absolutely untrue. The mats alone to make a single ship part cost nearly $1 million credits.

 

None of the parts on the Jedi Covenant Server are crafted; they are all put there from straw purchases off the Cartel Market. How could I tell? No crafter name tag on a single one of them. Why would a crafter even bother when they are undercut by 70% of breaking even?

 

Yep. I was just coming back to correct that part as I did the same just now, looked for crafter's names.

 

That part I can agree with, allow crafting and legitimate sale of the items. It would support crafting, open more options for myself and everyone else. Win.

Yep. I was just coming back to correct that part as I did the same just now, looked for crafter's names.

 

That part I can agree with, allow crafting and legitimate sale of the items. It would support crafting, open more options for myself and everyone else. Win.

 

For the record, I don't have as much of a problem of them putting the gear in the CM as the fact that the missions are tuned specifically for them making it all but impossible to run them without first obtaining a set of T7 gear.

 

The grind option is just too much - I mean 2000 fleet comms, 500-some daily comms, + schematics & high level crafting mats? Somehow that equals a $9 purchase?

 

That's where the anger & resentment in this tread is coming from primarily, at least from me that is.

For the record, I don't have as much of a problem of them putting the gear in the CM as the fact that the missions are tuned specifically for them making it all but impossible to run them without first obtaining a set of T7 gear.

 

The grind option is just too much - I mean 2000 fleet comms, 500-some daily comms, + schematics & high level crafting mats? Somehow that equals a $9 purchase?

 

That's where the anger & resentment in this tread is coming from primarily, at least from me that is.

 

 

And I can absolutely agree with you there. I don't want to wait two to four months before I can enjoy them (and I do enjoy space missions). I was speaking to those that do not want them in the CC at all. Seems unreasonable to me. However, I have to agree with you on your contention. The grind would be ridiculous so in a manner of speaking it is leaving people with one choice, buy them with CC or don't play for months. That can't be good for the game as it will only serve to further piss off the population.

 

I'm hoping that the intent is to balance that out and make it at least a reasonable grind. Too late to allow people to participate with x amount of 7s. Seems you need them all, or at least most.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Blackardin

They are there because there are people such as myself that play the game and can afford the nine dollars it cost to buy them but do not have the time to run every mission, every day for 60 days....and I enjoy them.

 

Some of us don't live the game, some do. If you would rather earn them in game, then earn them in game. I'll do a little of each as time permits. How I play does not affect you at all.

 

Bottom line here is that you are not the only one playing the game and though I can respect your opinion, I disagree with it, or your contention that because you do not want to buy them, no one should be able to. I personally do not enjoy mind numbing grinding. We are not in direct competition in space as we would be in PvP so no harm no foul.

 

You play your way, I'll play my way. That is what they are allowing to occur.

 

 

They still have no place on the cartel market don't want to do the grind? Spend credits once they are crafted or earned by other people who do the grind. Why is that such an appalling concept?

And this could effec me as I am a cyber tech and what you did just cost me a potential sale.

Edited December 14, 2012 by FortunesDemise

They still have no place on the cartel market don't want to do the grind? Spend credits once they are crafted or earned by other people who do the grind. Why is that such an appalling concept?

 

You have to grind the credits. I don't want to have to mindlessly grind 3 to 4 million credits in order to enjoy the space game. To me that's worse then grinding space missions for coms.

 

As I stated, crafting should be an option, so too should the space grind be reduced. That grants you the option to play as you see fit. I can support that. What I can't get behind is people telling me that I can't play the way I wish because they don't want to. ;p

You have to grind the credits. I don't want to have to mindlessly grind 3 to 4 million credits in order to enjoy the space game. To me that's worse then grinding space missions for coms.

 

As I stated, crafting should be an option, so too should the space grind be reduced. That grants you the option to play as you see fit. I can support that. What I can't get behind is people telling me that I can't play the way I wish because they don't want to. ;p

 

Yea forget the community and economy who needs it. While we are at it lets just make everything available via cartel coins cuz grinding sucks and is pointless.

 

What I hear when you say "let me play how I wanna" is let me buy credits cause I don't want to grind endless dailys cause I don't l don't like to do that stuff.

See where this line of thought leads?

 

Sorry but pulling money out of thin air is bad for the econemy.

Edited December 14, 2012 by FortunesDemise

2) It's not Pay to Win because you're not directly competing against anyone

If they didn't sell PvP gear, but sold PvE gear, that's not directly competing against someone else. You're grouped with other people in a combined effort to down a scripted AI boss. You can say you're competing against others for "Server 1st" or "World 1st", but all this gear does is help you to down content faster. But that's exactly what the ship upgrades do. They help you complete those new missions faster and more easily which enables you to obtain credits and commendations..

 

Sure are a lot of hypotheticals there that aren't based on reality.

You know, if you had made a thread claiming that SWTOR was going to eventually become a free to play pay to win MMO practically akin to some korean game you'd of been flamed to death.

 

(Although if you had told me there'd be whole threads of people defending p2w here, I'd of believed that for sure)

Yea forget the community and economy who needs it. While we are at it lets just make everything available via cartel coins cuz grinding sucks and is pointless.

 

Ok now you are starting to sound like a whiny kid here. Not going to do this with you. I've already said that I think they should be craftable, but what you seem to want is to corner the market and subject the rest of us to your crafting, your prices without any other option. That's never going to happen as it is little more then out of the frying pan into the fire.

 

What I hear when you say "let me play how I wanna" is let me buy credits cause I don't want to grind endless dailys cause I don't l don't like to do that stuff.

See where this line of thought leads?

 

Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't like mindless grinding, day after day doing the same mind numbing thing. That's not fun to me. Fun is playing the game as I choose as my time permits. That would be crafting, space missions, raiding, leveling. What you seem to be saying is that I should play according to your desires. My fifteen a month, your choice of how I play?

 

Sorry but pulling money out of thin air is bad for the econemy.

 

The economy is still robust enough that I'm still selling my crafted and farmed items as much as I was before the patch. I have all the crafters including cybertech. Heck, I'm still selling grade two and four ship upgrades, mods, mats, weapons, armor, hilts. I've seen no difference. The economy issue seems to be a red herring argument.

BIOWARE Lessons Learned - Cartel Market 101

• Do NOT Sell high end gear that gives the image of Play to Win or money Grab.
  
• Read comments & Feedback from ALL your players and MMO communities at large.
  

 

Grinding is FINE, but you basically forced people to BUY from Cartel Market in order to PLAY the new missions or they spend 2-3 months building up enough materials to make all the Grade 7 Stuff. (Which has a crazy number of high end materials I would rather use to upgrade my PVE gear)

 

It was like "Here is this cool set of space missions, but you can't play unless you have thousands of Fleet Commendations or just shell out $15 to us in cash and we will give you them instead." - Game on!

 

Well I just did that in preperation of 1.6.

 

I spend 3,5 weeks doing space missions on 3 characters EVERY FU**ING DAY!

 

Was that fun for me?? Could that have been fun for anyone?? No! I did that because I want to achieve something.

 

Can you feel with me when I saw the 3 "new" cartel market space packs??

 

They already did irrevertable damage to the game and the only thing that keeps we staying so far is the enourmous investment of time I did into this game.

 

Oh by the way to all collectors out there......there is a hidden maximum in effect with mounts. You can have a maximum of 54 in your vehicle list. Thats it. I have 53 vehicles plus rocket boots. When I tried to learn the command throne it just vanished but gave no skill to summon it.

I made CS to delete one of my small mounts and then I could learn it. The small speeder had then the same problems of not being able to learn it.

So I now have 2 mounts on my bank and new ones will come.

 

This is the kind of programming these guys do these days =).

 

I thin that pets have same max number. But excluding the 1.6. new cc pack it mas a maximum of 32 pets so we are still a good way from 54.

 

Have fun.

 

Kwich

Anyway. I've upgraded to the 7s, tried the space missions.....and they suck. ;p The old ones were doable once you learned them, and at least had the feel of a ship going into space combat. Not the case with these.

 

The escort mission is pretty easy to learn, but just about impossible to win LOL. The Jedi ships take full concentration and about 20 hits with missiles to kill, all while spinning and dodging them and three escorts (also requiring many hits) that are firing machine gun level blasters that pretty much annihilate your shields in about 2 seconds. This while random ships, corvettes, cruisers buzz all around you firing all manner of junk at you.

 

There are three of them in succession. You can take them out, but the time involved causes you to miss enough standard ships that you fail. I've gotten to 65, but never all of them. You can survive the damage, but your guns and missiles simply don't do enough damage for the speed its set at.

 

Tried a few others. Pretty much the same. People will probably get used to them, beat them, but they are going to always be a twitch battle rather then a flight sim that gives any feel of space battle. They are more like a kids shooter where you don't even have a second to look around, just constantly targeting and firing things coming at you from all directions. I'm happy that I didn't waste a few months of time grinding to get there. I would have been upset if that is all I got for my time. Worth the price of a sandwich and a coke to check it out though.

I'm very glad to see they listened to this one, internal communication error or not, as someone who bought a schematic and made an item I'd be very insterested to see how they fix this, as 700 coms and 4 molecular stabalisers later I feel more than a little ripped off. More importantly I hope they never stray into this territory again.

Well I just did that in preperation of 1.6.

 

I spend 3,5 weeks doing space missions on 3 characters EVERY FU**ING DAY!

 

Was that fun for me?? Could that have been fun for anyone?? No! I did that because I want to achieve something.

 

Can you feel with me when I saw the 3 "new" cartel market space packs??

 

They already did irrevertable damage to the game and the only thing that keeps we staying so far is the enourmous investment of time I did into this game.

 

Oh by the way to all collectors out there......there is a hidden maximum in effect with mounts. You can have a maximum of 54 in your vehicle list. Thats it. I have 53 vehicles plus rocket boots. When I tried to learn the command throne it just vanished but gave no skill to summon it.

I made CS to delete one of my small mounts and then I could learn it. The small speeder had then the same problems of not being able to learn it.

So I now have 2 mounts on my bank and new ones will come.

 

This is the kind of programming these guys do these days =).

 

I thin that pets have same max number. But excluding the 1.6. new cc pack it mas a maximum of 32 pets so we are still a good way from 54.

 

Have fun.

 

Kwich

 

I feel your pain, I spent a few weeks also doing grinding 100 fleet comms every day, got 1911 fleet comms by the day 1.6 released. I also threw down about 15 million in credits buying mats from the GTN hoping to sell crafted ship parts only to realise after crafting them that they were already on CM and have flooded the GTN at prices I could in no way compete....

They are there because there are people such as myself that play the game and can afford the nine dollars it cost to buy them but do not have the time to run every mission, every day for 60 days....and I enjoy them.

 

Some of us don't live the game, some do. If you would rather earn them in game, then earn them in game. I'll do a little of each as time permits. How I play does not affect you at all.

 

Bottom line here is that you are not the only one playing the game and though I can respect your opinion, I disagree with it, or your contention that because you do not want to buy them, no one should be able to. I personally do not enjoy mind numbing grinding. We are not in direct competition in space as we would be in PvP so no harm no foul.

 

You play your way, I'll play my way. That is what they are allowing to occur.

 

I understand your situation and agree with you. You have a right to play the game in whatever way you like. But personal preferences are not question here.

Why can you, at level 10, buy a crystal which crafter can't make at level 10? Correct my if I am wrong as I don't have an artifice character, but +41 Exp is something an artifice crafter can only craft when he/she is at much, much higher level? Right?

This is the problem with CM. They are invalidating crafting and destroying market economy.

 

I've just read their explanation regarding this and it's such a bunch of poop, I can't imagine they have even one single developer who is working on this, with IQ higher than room temperature.

Link to this verbal diarrhea of one called Damion Schubert :

http://www.darthhater.com/articles/swtor-news/22126-bioware-outlines-cartel-market-crystal

 

It looks like they are trying to make this game into GW2. Please don't. I came back here because I couldn't play that crap of an RPG.

Hi everyone,

 

I've spoken to the design team about the issue of Grade 7 ship upgrades and the cost in game (resources and time) versus the cost on the Cartel Market, since this concern was raised by a number of people on our forums.

 

Our Lead Designer for the game, Damion Schubert, has this to say:

 

Unfortunately, there is, in fact, a great disparity between these two costs. We want to apologize for this, as there was a miscommunication internally on how valuable these upgrades were, how challenging they should be to earn, and how fast a player should be able to earn them.

 

We are currently looking at solutions that cause the least amount of frustration for all players affected, while keeping the integrity of both the Cartel Market and the game intact.

 

It is not our intent to make the Cartel Market the “way to play" the game—we want you to feel that both the Cartel Market and earning gear in game are viable options as far as value goes, neither being far more efficient or effective than the other.

 

We truly hope you enjoy the challenge of the new Heroic Space Missions and apologize again for what we hope is a small distraction.

 

I want to reiterate that we are actively looking at solutions and they will be communicated to you as soon as we have a solid plan.

 

Thank you for your patience.

 

Thank you for this simple but highly effective info.

You are communicating to us and I think that you have no idea how much that means to us.

You made a mistake. It happens and will continue to happen in the future which we all understand. And that is the reason why we need this kind of communication from you more often. So we know you know. So we see you trying. So we can say to ourselves "Ahhhh, they are working on this. They really are .".

 

Maybe it's a professional disability of your line of work (CS), but even small updates, notices and messages of progress and your work are doing a huge improvement in connecting you with this community in positive way.

I've been playing for about a year and I'm still having a blast but I'd unequivocally drop this game if P2W items went on the market. I'm not one for idle statements as I always found those "I'm quitting the game QQ" threads annoying and meaningless as those folks never actually quit. This issue is simply a clear line in sand for me.

 

Mr Schubert's response was either poorly worded or intentionally ambiguous(to leave the door open) and is therefore troubling. Rather than calm the customer base he added more fuel to the fire. Unless he comes out and makes a flat out promise of no P2W items ever in any way shape or form, all indications are that this space mission thing was meant to test the waters and this dev response is a just a clumsy about-face. Apologies if this sounds paranoid or overly suspicious.

Edited December 14, 2012 by Projawa

So much complain only for an arcade mini game coming with swtor.I dont mind if ppl buys ship upgrades with real money and easly do hardest space combat missions.It doesnt affect my pvp and pve , I dont care about its tittles too.Maybe your not aware but they must earn money to do more content , add new tools and maintain servers.

So much complain only for an arcade mini game coming with swtor.I dont mind if ppl buys ship upgrades with real money and easly do hardest space combat missions.It doesnt affect my pvp and pve , I dont care about its tittles too.Maybe your not aware but they must earn money to do more content , add new tools and maintain servers.

 

So its ok for you if they sell complete Dreadguard and Elite WH sets for 1300CC next months?

I only play RP and Spacecombat so i dont care...

 

Ignorant §"$$"%/&%$

Edited December 14, 2012 by Eshmael

snip

 

 

Thank you... I rarely complain about your decisions Bioware, but even this one rattled me the wrong way. Thank you for addressing it.

I doubt it they just got caught with there hand in the proverbial cookie jar and are backtracking to save face.

 

Maybe, but at least they know this isn't on.