I'm one of those rare people who play Concealment Operative, specifically for pvp.

 

1. My PVP-rep on my server is pretty strong, so no one really looks down on me; however, most Rated Warzone teams that formed on my server have some prejudice against DPS Operatives. Their reasoning (which I agree with to a degree), is that we lack much lethal burst, have no means of closing a gap, and our overall fragility. It makes me have to work hard to get any respect for the difference a bona fide stealth class can make to a Warzone, but the challenge is welcome to me.

 

2. I like my spec; we're like a slowed-down rogue. However, I'm extremely jealous of other classes' means of closing gaps as well as how little my "burst" damage is-- as a stealth class burst is what I rely on to be effective. I know it's a balancing act between making us too powerful in burst damage and too powerful in our ability to control other players. We're already light on the control abilities, so why am I not bursting down Defense Guardians then gleefully slipping back into the shadows while I let everything line back up?

Heals Spec:

 

1 - We are the most sought-after healing class in PVP because, once we have TA, we can do 700+ hps without channeling any spells. We have more cooldowns than other healers, between evasion, shield probe, vanish, debilitate (15 sec when specced) and flash bang. We can also have dangerous burst (explosive probe+backstab can do up to 5k burst, other healers can't do that).

 

2 - I perceive medic to be the only viable spec in PVP right now. It is the strongest healing spec and can easily break 1000hps in a warzone if the player is good. They are so vertasile for the reasons outlined above. My only criticism is that they can have a slightly long ramp-up time if they dont start a fight with any TA. Without TA they are weak as hell, but once they have 2-3 TA for surgical probe spam they are insane. I wouldn't change the spec now, but instead buff the other healers to match operatives because TTK in this game is very low.

 

I used to be concealment, but now the damage/burst is so terrible that nobody wants them, so I was forced to respec heals just to get in to groups. Because of how their resource system works, they can't do BOTH healing and damage because they would run out of energy. Their Hidden Strike hits for less than a railshot. Their 12 second backstab cooldown makes the class feel awkward. If you want to kill anything in decent time you will run out of energy. They fill resolve bars too quickly, but need to just to stay in melee range.

My suggestion for concealment: If you want to keep their damage the same, you will need to tweak their resource regeneration system (perhaps remove the energy regen penalty at <60% with a top-tier talent) and give them an additional gap closer so they have more uptime (maybe replace the hidden strike knockdown with a powerful snare or shadowstep-type ability). If not, you need to give them more damage/burst.

 

Lethality is just plain awkward as a spec. Extremely clunky. Damage has a huge ramp-up time and it can be very energy intensive. It requires that you use 10-12 abilties regularly so it has a much higher skill cap than other classes/specs. It also requires that you cleave dots on seveal targets just so you can get the energy regen from crits. This tree needs serious re-designing.

 

 

As a side note, I'm glad BW is making these threads. Some classes/specs are extremeley OP (rage or carnage mara's, Pyro powertechs, op healers, tankassins) and some classes/specs are completely useless (deception assassin, arsenal merc, pyro merc...) They need to address these issues before I will consider resubbing.

 

edit: sorry for writing more than 2-3 sentances but I have played all 3 specs a lot and wanted to give my insight to all 3, not just medic.

Edited July 23, 2012 by Yestreen

I play a level 50 Healer Operative: 33 Medicine / 3 Concealment / 5 Lethality. I do hard mode flashpoints, no operations or pvp.

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

It seems to be perceived as a "do everything" class. Heal, crowd control everything, dps help. It's nice to be a jack of all trades, but if you try to do that, you become a master of none, and just because I have energy in my bar doesn't mean I should be dps'ing. We get decent respect as healers, which I like.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I think healing often feels like busy work - lots of clicks and burning global cooldowns for little benefit. Having to use two global cooldowns to keep kolto probe up is just annoying, and needing to cast it twice makes healing group damage frustrating. DPS rarely chooses to stand still long enough to make recuperative nanotech useful, and boss mechanics don't encourage standing near each other. It's like the game mechanics are fighting me. I wish I had a proactive ability when I know damage will come (bubble/damage absorb) instead of relying on inefficient overhealing. I feel like everything I do is a reaction to something - damage, tactical advantage, staring at tooltips to see if I need to recast stim boost/probe - I don't feel in control of my healing, and that is frustrating.

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

A forced option when I need to be carried and nothing else

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

A slight predicament between a very bad joke and a broken concept

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

1) I am medicine specced. The Medicine spec is perceived as very strong in pve and pvp, with pvp even stronger than pve. I can do Ops, Hard Mode Flashpoints and PVP ( I don't do ranked) with it without comments.

2) I perceive my own spec as strong in both pve and pvp. The upside is the mobility, the downside is that we have no energy based secondary casting heal (that doesn't need TA). I'd prefer a swap of requiring TA from Kolto Infusion to Recuperative Nanotech for PVE reasons.

 

3) I am specced Medicine because of the several nerfs to the Concealment tree up to 1.2. Acid Blade nerf, Hidden Strike nerf, Backstab cooldown increase, making Acid Blade tick less as well, Shiv nerf and I believe even a Laceration nerf, making Concealment feel very weak compared to other classes. For DPS I already had to weave in Rifle Shot for energy management, but because of the increased cooldowns Concealment feels out of place now with even more time to fill up between cooldowns that aren't melee.

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

Operative Medic PVP: high mobility, instant heal, vanish, speed multiplier, one of the stronger healing classes.

Operative Medic PVE: single target healing, example focusing on tank, one of the stronger healing classes.

 

Operative Concealment PVP: high burst, substain damage, stunlocking, helpfull in RWZ

Operative Concealment PVE: high burst at the beginning, bad substain DPS, easily replaceable with any other DPS class.

 

Operative Lethality PVP: substain DPS, not helpfull what so ever regarding anything but DPS/ no CC,

Operative Lethality PVE: dies due to serveral game mechanics, capable of substain damage, preferable replacing by another DPS class.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

Operative Medic PVP: time consuming to kill, great heal over time, one of the best healers ingame.

Operative Medic PVE: single target healer, trusting heal over time, good energy management.

 

Operative Concealment PVP: helpfull due to infiltrate, high burst over short duration, energy problem accour over long duration fights, bad mobility, cloaking screen is poorly made (should teleport you OUT of combat, not make you go stealth nearby combat), no substain damage/hard to get out of combat to resneak.

Operative Concealment PVE: worst dps ingame, no substain damage, bad energy management, non-friendly PVE mechanics regarding melee, no gap closerer, no teambuff what so ever, no reason to bring to raid.

 

Operative Lethality PVP: good on DPS list, dot / switch target (most efficient), cull mechanic is done bad (have to go melee range to trigger a ranged attack), good mobility

Operative Lethality PVE: awkward ability mechanics, many bosses (especially Zorn & Toth) requires you to switch target if you get some sort of debuff (example). Our dots will make it almost impossible to not suicide, weird hybrid of melee/ranged with no gap closerer or speedboost if you are out of range.

 

To wrap it up; I've played Operative since launch achieving full War Hero PVP set and Campain PVE set, to give you some knowledge from where i got my experience from. The whole class feels awkward and unbalanced, the Medic side of the Operative is strong but the DPS side of it is unchallenging and dull. Lethality has substain damage but get repeatable. I see the trying of making a hybrid specc for Operative, but there is no reason to act like it, the substain damage in PVP come from spamming dots and switching target. I hope for a redesign on that area. I also hope for a redesign on how the spell Cloaking Screen works. Concealment specc has no substain DPS what so ever, also there is nothing to get yourself closer to the enemy target.

 

My suggestion would be to give Operative serveral new openers. This will might give you an option; substain damage, or high burst over short period.

 

PS: I'm getting this information by my own experience, also pharsers, also others opinion

I also want to thank you developers for making a thread like this.

 

I also read this after a while from the OP; Here are the two questions that we’d like to ask (please only post about specific specs that you actively play, and don’t forget to tell us which one you’re talking about!):

In my excuse for that, i've played all speccs active to check l if the unbalanced/awkward feel is all around the class. As i said, i've played active Operative since pre-release.

Edited July 23, 2012 by obi-joachim

Concealment

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

There are so very few of these around so most people don't even have a precepion of them anymore.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

It's been nerfed to death. I've had to respec to healer in order to play rwz's/ops. I didn't roll operative to be a healer but rather a stealthy class with alot of burst dmg.

 

Another concealment operative signing out... see you guys in GW2.

 

/Viki

I am mostly PVE Lethality orientated... with some Healing PVP for fun.

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

 

We are considered low on the invite list, but being in a friendly guild makes it bearable. Our perceived strength is our rarity... we provide a class buff and don't compete with the popular classes for loot. Its not a flattering view, but one must make do.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I enjoy Lethality but IMO it does have several shortcomings... due to some design flaws. Its a Melee class with a little bit of range when it could be a more entertaining hybrid. Expanding the range on 'gun skills' like Cull, Overload shot, Weakening Blast, etc would give us more playstyle options, help with mobility, and improve DPS... in relation to out of range issues. It would be nice to have a gun skill proc Tactical Advantages, since we are reliant on Shiv (a melee ranged attack). As commonly noted, we lack a gap closing skill and lose DPS moving to mobs or evacuating certain areas. Also when the raid uses Crowd Control on mobs, we have to be very careful with Corrosive Grenade or do without it (losing a bit of Cull damage).

 

Healing spec : I have nothing to add, wiser people than myself are best consulted on this issue.

 

Thanks for reading.

Going to chime in again.

 

The single skill that makes concealment ops utterly (and very vocally) hated by ungeared/unskilled players is the knockdown on hidden strike. People will tolerate being stunned and out of control of their character. It's being completely unexpectedly out of control that infuriates them. I think most players would happily accept the class doing 20%-30% more overall damage if they didn't have to deal with this "OP" skill.

 

I would happily trade the knockdown on hidden strike for a damage buff and/or (preferably and) a "shadowstep" gap closer on a 45s cooldown.

I'm DPS Lethality

 

PVP (valor 80)

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

annoying squishy bug = kill him first, before he's able to get to Cull on weak targets.. (usually you're marked)

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

You have to play it very smart, and it is frustrating, knowing the class has design flaws:

- TA generation: bad! get TA from Shiv (only reliable source of TA for Leth.) you have to go melee! if you go melee, you meet the 'real deal' melee classes => you're noted, you die

- TA stack hold time = 10 sec bad!

 

PVE:

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

Not bad, but dont invite him unless there is no other choice of DPS

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I'm not sure, after being kicked from couple of grps in endgame and being replaced by e.g. sniper, i stopped doing PVE (im not in guild, so ppl dont bear up with my lower DPS)

 

sugg:

TA:

1. tie it to range attack (completely redesign it, or give us another TA generator, beside Shiv - e.g. tie it to Weakening Blast too)

2. prolong the hold up time of TA stack: tie to "Lethal dose" each point spent there = 2 sec => 6sec possible (just like "Medical consult" in medic tree)

Concealment

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

Melee DPS has a hard enough time in PVE, without lackluster damage. Poor defensive abilities hurt during boss fights. We have no real raid utility like blood thirst, ballistic shield, other than crappy heals(which means we aren't DPSing) or a 15 second stealth. Reliance on positional abilities are impossible on some boss fights. Poor substitute for a Marauder, DPS Jugg or PT.

 

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

No gap closer means we have to constantly run to the target (losing DPS), and of all the classes/specs I've played Concealment has, by far, the clunkiest rotation. There are too few "Concealment" attacks, and cool downs are a constant problem. It's the only spec I've seen where you can regularly run out of abilities to use (unless you count rifle shot, or go in to cover). Tricky energy regen generally means that you'll have to constantly weave in your baseline attack (rifle shot). This is also the only spec where I've had to constantly use this sort of basic attack at level 50.

Minor Gripe: no knockback

 

 

This Spec needs some serious help...the fact that Ops/Scoundrels are the only class almost unanimously reporting poor performance/perception should send up a big red flag.

Edited August 1, 2012 by whimsyontap

Concealment op

Others view me as weak dps with nothing unique to offer group besides the 15 sec invis skill.

 

I have 4 level 50s a sentinal, shadow, and commando and by far ops is the weakest in dps well about even with my shadow which is TANK spec.

 

I think one way to help with dps is to take shiv off 5 sec cooldown. I do not understand why it is on a cooldown it would be like putting grav round on a 5 second cooldown, the commando community would TOTALLY FREAK OUT yet for ops that is what we have

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

Healer spec is seen as useful to a party, while DPS spec is seen as joke/unwanted by other players. I have a Concealment DPS Operative that no one will group with unless I re-spec her to healing. While my healer Operative hasn't run into this issue, and no one ever asks me to re-spec him to DPS.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Healer spec is enjoyable to play when a tank can hold threat. DPS was a lot of fun to play until it seemed like I hit a brick wall at level 50 and my damage was hit-or-miss against even regular PvE opponents. I honestly feel like the DPS operative needs a bit of reworking, as with the decrease in surge damage, we can't do much after our initial stealth break. And our rotations feel clunky due to the long cooldown on attacks like Shiv.

Edited August 8, 2012 by relayinabox

Is it just me or does the cover bonus not activate for Operatives? I'm not getting a defense bonus unless that's deliberate.

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

• Concealment: pre 50 competetive, post 50 an (minor) annoyance, useless in hutball
  
• Lethality: not great pre 50 (need Cull and Weakening Blast), functional post 50 but not intimitating compared to other damage over time classes
  
• in all cases but healing: squishy and easy to counter
  

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

• Concealment: overnerfed. The rotation is clunky, energy management is difficult, damage is subpar, utility is low. Hidden Strike could as well be usable outside of stealth seeing the baseline-attack damage of other classes (Project/Shock, Railshot, finishers, Deathfield, Rage-Smash,...)
  
• Lethality: skill layout could be better (e.g. change that perk that allows a chance to double-tick on dart to double tick on every poison-effect when critting by 25/50%). Another way to generate TA without Shiv or Healing would be nice (no, does not have to be usable at >10m range), Cull should be made a Tech attack (for Operatives only) and apply its damage in one chunk (so we also have a chance to ever get that 5000 damage in one strike medal)
  
• Overall: burst too low for a squishy stealth class. So if burst is not increased we need better survivability and better substained damage. Cloaking Screen has a too high CD and should grant damage immunity for 5 seconds or so
  
• Gear: PvP Set Bonusses are crap, Iam using fieldtech-set because it at least helps somewhat ><
  

Edited August 9, 2012 by Coplann

All pvp -

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

Healer - Viewed as near un-killable and the best healer class.

Concealment - A joke and any other class preferred in a wz group.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

Healer - Nearly very good - mobility is the absolute key here compared to other healers. Un-killable is usually misjudged due to having guard. Too much reliance on TA's. It's a random proc, nothing more frustrating than trying to help some one and your TA's have not procced and your other heals are either far too slow or too small. Energy management is on the slim side.

Concealment - It's more of a joke than it is perceived. Zero utility combined with low sustainable dps paired with poor energy resources makes the class totally and utterly pointless. Anything this class can do can be done 30% better by other classes. No self respecting rwz team would/does include a concealment ops.

Concealment PvP is a joke. Miss the old days...but ya'll listened to the whiners and nerfed Concealment not once, but TWICE. ***? O.o

 

Healing PvP is amazing. Damn near unkillable with a constant rotation of TA's popping for Surgical Probe to drop

 

Lethality PvP needs alot of work.

Hi everyone,

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

 

Thank you!

 

Concealment Op.

 

Pureley a PvP point of view

 

I feel we have enough burst but are in need of some serious substain damage

 

not lvl 50 so can't speak for the 50's bracket myself I know on my 50 merc when a concealment op opens up on me i usally throw in a stun and ignore the little nusiance and go back to healing

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

I didn't answer this thread for a long time because I didn't know what to think about the question. The answers to these questions have been so clear for so long, Oh well.

 

1. I'm concealment spec'd and pretty much despised by most other people. They will take me in a raid if they feel they are otherwise strong enough to carry me. If they need serious dps they will boot me. .I am considereed inadequate in both PvP and PvE.

 

2. I don't have enough dps to really be successful against a raid boss, and am less viable than the other dps classes. I can only match them if they are less skilled and geared than me. In PvP I do okay, but have to work hard at what comes easier to other classes.

Concealment Operative

 

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

PvE: Unwanted as dps in Operations due to the required mobility thus providing low dps with no beneficial buffs or utility to provide to the raid. Essentially if your not healing your not welcome.

PvP: To the new fresh level 50 were dangerous but to a seasoned Veteran were an absolute joke as Concealment. We are indeed a 1 trick pony in the current state.

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

I'm going to blame at least 75% of our PvP problems on the current stealth mechanics. Concealment is a hit and run style of play and VERY dependent on stealth. After I have utilized all my tools me going back into stealth is crucial. I'm literally forced to blow my Cloaking Screen because the current combat system holds me in combat not allowing me to stealth. I've tested this and have counted up to 20 seconds of waiting to get out of combat while hiding behind a wall.

 

In World of Warcraft the combat system drops you from combat at 8 seconds - this happens regardless of any remaining DOT's that may still persist on a target. Why is the combat system in SWTOR so random and unpredictable? Please look into this, as it has a huge impact on Concealment.

PVE concealment

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes? Ops runs always

prefer warriors for melee dps... nuff' said

 

2. How do you perceive your own spec? since this spec is very reminiscent of a combat/assas rogue in WoW (which was my main ) here are my observation of this class:

1. need gap closer

2. since most MMOs tend NOT to separate PVP from PVE thereby screwing over PvE ppl when you buff/nerf classes for balance of pvp, you need to add some sort of ability/buff that only effects dmg on droid/beasts as a work around to you bending over backwards to PvP QQers... Some of us concealment ops actually pve ya know So when I have to work twice as hard as a marauder who is just face rolling and getting several k more then me in dmg and is getting top priority in melee slots, it makes me and other ops in the same position embittered.

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

1. I am concealment and I pvp for the most part.

I think we're looked at as the limping class in WZ's. I've seen rants and forums that suggest as end game PVE

you're better off going with a different class.

 

2. I have fun with it simply because I have accepted i don't do the big damage my powertech does or my warrior. I

watched my numbers and it saddens me that we as a class have such a poor showing. When i get good heals

I tend to do better, but that's the same for anyone. I don't know what it was like pre nerf but it must have been

fun.

 

I also believe if you can play an operative well you can play any other class easily. Make us less clunky and give

us a gap closer.

Concealment Operative and Lethality. Others usually dismiss my class as being frail and not putting out enough dps.

 

I feel that.my class is squishy and lacking damage and survivability compared to other melee dps

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

1. The DPS of an operative is sub-par to any other DPS class. Not worth a spot in an operation or in warzones. The healing they do is comparable to other healing AC's.

 

2. From 1-49 I had a blast with my Concealment Op it was my intention to keep him DPS all the way, however once I hit 50, PVP became a chore and so did PVE for that matter. It is to easy to kite an operative. I thought the DPS was decent until I leveled up my Powertech and my Marauder to 50. My Powertech has always been a tank however the DPS I can do with that toon is higher than an Op fully spec'ed in dps. Compared to my Marauder the DPS of an Op is laughable. I stopped playing my Operative for quite a while for these reasons. I came back to try the healing and I think that that is the only enjoyable spec for this class. I also have a level 50 sage healer, and I think that they are very balanced. The sage has big spike heals but the HoT's and TA's make the Op an entertaining healer to play.

 

Please give concealment a buff, we need either higher burst or a speed buff of some sort, also the energy management is really an issue since the cost of the skills were increased. This was my favorite toon until I realized that every other DPS class is better hands down. If it was the only stealth class I might be able to swallow that but being as though Assassins can stealth have better survive-ability and better DPS I think Ops need some attention. Until then the only time I will use my Op for anything is to heal.

1. How do you think your Operative spec is perceived by other classes?

2. How do you perceive your own spec?

 

1. I think all the dps operatives are experiencing the same thing. Being sidelined in both PVP and PVE due to the lack of utility we provide in the arena. What we do, other classes do better. I do PVP most of the time and for rated teams, they just rather not waste a slot for an OPS DPS. Our burst/crits are pitiful compared to the numbers doled out by other classes. With my operative fully geared and remodded, my almost full wh/not remodded smash jugg does more dmg than my operative ever can. Assassins have better survivability, energy regeneration, bursts and a finishing move. Only good thing we bring is our flashbang but with other classes aoe CC's and the introduction of grenades, they can pretty much live without us.

 

2. DPS operatives are in desperate need for a buff. While we've been gimped awhile back, it was still somewhat tolerable until all other classes received a buff. A 6 second increase in movement speed is not a game changer nor does it address any of the core issue plaguing the concealment operative. Sorry to say but if nothing is done for this class soon, they'll be a dead breed that no one cares about (unless you're a healer). What we lack in utility, we made up for in high dmg until the nerf came. I can barely get 5k crits although I'm fully remodded while my friends talk about their 7-8k crit AOE smashes. Our defensive cooldowns cannot compare to the other classes. Basically we're squishy, can't burst out high enough numbers, have relatively poor energy regeneration and lacking the utility the other classes have.

Edited November 23, 2012 by Blances