WoW! Another Bruce Lee : p

Never made any claim of the sort, though you're obviously a little upset that you were called out on your absurd generalization

As I mentioned it in a bunch of threads, low lvl Sage/Sorc can handle pvp, till expertise is not on the table (his only defensive tool is the bubble, what support by willpower, force power and power, so bonus healing, but not healing bonus what comes from expertise. The thread is about "Sage, the paper dog king of all mmo's!" that Sage/Sorc has no viable defense after expertise arrives, by the way, he is lacking in DPS as well : p

Were you drunk when you wrote this? I'm still trying to get my head around the almost incoherent babble here, there are english translators online, not that hard to make sure your post is at least somewhat intelligible. In regards to your comments about Sages through the levels (from what I could understand) if anything it's quite the opposite. At low levels you're at a disadvantage due to the lack of skills at your disposal to compensate for the squishy nature of the class. At end game however there are no shortage of tools to help you survive if you use them correctly.

So low lvl Sage/Sorc's defense is viable imo (still lacking in dps) but after 50, to keep him alive is a nightmare...

The solo survivability of a sage is fantastic at 50. If you can kite/use your cc well, you have ample opportunities to fire off heals during the fight. Their dps is fine, again, learn to cycle your skills and look at what build you're running.

so here is one of my Sage (this char is viable here coz of low lvl) and how he kite at 5:13 -7:00

Wow. If you were trying to confirm my suspicions about your inability to kite, then congratulations You back peddle and you turn your back/run a number of times. No circle strafing in the entire fight, so I was right. You need to learn to kite. I'll agree the class could use some very minor tweaks, but they are certainly no where near as bad as you are making them out to be.

Never made any claim of the sort, though you're obviously a little upset that you were called out on your absurd generalization

 

 

 

 

Were you drunk when you wrote this? I'm still trying to get my head around the almost incoherent babble here, there are english translators online, not that hard to make sure your post is at least somewhat intelligible. In regards to your comments about Sages through the levels (from what I could understand) if anything it's quite the opposite. At low levels you're at a disadvantage due to the lack of skills at your disposal to compensate for the squishy nature of the class. At end game however there are no shortage of tools to help you survive if you use them correctly.

 

 

 

 

 

The solo survivability of a sage is fantastic at 50. If you can kite/use your cc well, you have ample opportunities to fire off heals during the fight. Their dps is fine, again, learn to cycle your skills and look at what build you're running.

 

 

 

 

Wow. If you were trying to confirm my suspicions about your inability to kite, then congratulations You back peddle and you turn your back/run a number of times. No circle strafing in the entire fight, so I was right. You need to learn to kite. I'll agree the class could use some very minor tweaks, but they are certainly no where near as bad as you are making them out to be.

The bubble is the only defense tool for Sage, the bubble's power depends on power, willpower and force power, so it depends on bonus healing how much dmg it can absorb. Expertise gives bonus to healing and it don't improve force armor (the bubble) Thats one of the reason, way Sage goes down so easy after 50. But it won't be a wise fix to improve bubble by expertise, because its already makes indestructible classes immortal.

It would be possible to leave Sage's deference like this, but in this case he should get a huge burst dmg tool table.

Its nonsense, that the most indestructible AC has the greatest burst DMG (jug) till the most glass class absolutely lacking in it.

There are few games, where back peddle is a wrong action in pvp, but not in SWTOR (when you slow your opponent and you should face him to land your spell, what you do? You run away? )

By the way, try to kite better when 99% of your spells are channeling ones....

May I ask what class are you playing?

Can you show us one of your wids, what you made with your Sage/Sorc just to let us learn a bit how to kite. (please don't flee this one, if you don't have, just upload one, its 10 minutes...)

"To me this seems a clear indication that you have no idea on how to kite in pvp"

so here is one of my Sage (this char is viable here coz of low lvl) and how he kite at 5:13 -7:00

Circle strafe. Learn how to do it. Simply sprinting in straight lines is not 'kiting' - that's escaping. Well done on the 2 vs 1, but you only confirmed my suspicions that you need to learn to kite. THAT'S why you're having so much trouble with smashderps.

There are few games, where back peddle is a wrong action in pvp, but not in SWTOR (when you slow your opponent and you should face him to land your spell, what you do? You run away? )

By the way, try to kite better when 99% of your spells are channeling ones....

No, back-peddling is NEVER advised in PvP. Have a look at Taugrim's vids - he even removes his back peddle option. Slow your opponent, and then move in a wide, exaggerated circle around him. You never expose your back, and he's constantly trying to close the angle. Of course, they'll use force leap, grapple, force speed etc to close the distance, but you have the tools needed to get back into range. It's why Balance or hybrid specs work well. And no, if you run in Balance spec, "99%" of your skills are not channelled.

You see BW, another subscriber, who wants some tweaks for Sage/Sorc!

Bioware is well aware of the complaints surrounding the Sage/Sorc class. I'm hoping that the expansion will see improvements made to those classes that need it most - starting with the Commando/Merc.

My dear Chubby, you where growled a bit, but in the end you managed to burp it up

No, I've said it all along. And I'm not your 'dear', or 'chubby', for that matter.

Circle strafe. Learn how to do it. Simply sprinting in straight lines is not 'kiting' - that's escaping. Well done on the 2 vs 1, but you only confirmed my suspicions that you need to learn to kite. THAT'S why you're having so much trouble with smashderps.

No, back-peddling is NEVER advised in PvP. Have a look at Taugrim's vids - he even removes his back peddle option. Slow your opponent, and then move in a wide, exaggerated circle around him. You never expose your back, and he's constantly trying to close the angle. Of course, they'll use force leap, grapple, force speed etc to close the distance, but you have the tools needed to get back into range. It's why Balance or hybrid specs work well. And no, if you run in Balance spec, "99%" of your skills are not channelled.

I know what you mean, I played "Darkfall" for 3 years before I switched to swtor, , )

I still using it with my Scoundrel, but sometimes I laughing on my self, because this game is auto aim, and I know well, that when my commando starts to channel grav round and a scoundrel, operative, assassin, shadow kiting around me like if he where in an FPS game, I don't have to do anything, my char is facing him, no matter how he moves (I wish it would be different here...) so he can land a back hit only if I stop channeling, or he stun me. IMO this could need a fix as well, but in that case it means a new engine , )

I was crossing my fingers when swtor launch was announced, for a non auto aim server, but it never will arrive : /

The balance spec has options for insta cast, FB - but its on 15 sec cd and the others are in the end of a combo what you have to start with a few sec of channeling.

Another problem in my eyes, we have the most sensitive AC (minimal defense, hp) so hes goal for survive would be kiting, but its the only ranged class who don't have ranged auto attack (even in his secondary dmg table, the main attribute, the willpower don't counts - you don't see another class like that in the game) and he is coursed with a bunch of channeling spells what simply root him down lol

But I thanks for your advice and I will try to set up some kind of kiting with my Sage.

Bioware is well aware of the complaints surrounding the Sage/Sorc class. I'm hoping that the expansion will see improvements made to those classes that need it most - starting with the Commando/Merc.

 

No, I've said it all along. And I'm not your 'dear', or 'chubby', for that matter.

Bioware do nothing.... And the swtor player base is just qq'ing on the general channel, but somehow they are not that great forum fighters(honor for exception). Thats way I started to post, even if I know, that my English is lacking like hell , )

You mentioned commando/Merc. They get the nerf in 1.2 nearly a year ago and still no upgrade for them lol

And the next expansion??? At the end of spring??? No! They should fix this issues yesterday!

An mmo player is sticks to 1 mmo, if he bored or get tired by waiting for his fix he simply leaves... It never means that he stops playing mmo, he will start a new one and he stick to that one. And its 99% that he never will go back to the one what he left - the market is way too full with MMOs

SWTOR made this mistake ones, and now what can you see? Soon they will offer free sex in Thailand if a left subscriber comes back....

Look at the forum, listen the general channel in game.... We should see a class balance patch in the next days or way too many ppl will leave.

If I would make an mmo I would come out with new skills, abilities in every even month and tweak the balance with them (you even can make a lore around it, to handle the confusion of some of the player base) and I would keep the game fresh with it.

If an mmo lacking in new content, then game over. For us, pvp players the content are new skills and balance tweaking.

"No, I've said it all along. And I'm not your 'dear', or 'chubby', for that matter."

You can call me a "blue phoenix holding a Magen David" if you like to , )

The bubble is the only defense tool for Sage, the bubble's power depends on power, willpower and force power, so it depends on bonus healing how much dmg it can absorb. Expertise gives bonus to healing and it don't improve force armor (the bubble) Thats one of the reason, way Sage goes down so easy after 50. But it won't be a wise fix to improve bubble by expertise, because its already makes indestructible classes immortal....

What a fascinating and completely redundant pile of tripe. Sages aren't tanks, they're a light armour wearing utility class, which when used right can have a huge impact on pvp.

It would be possible to leave Sage's deference like this, but in this case he should get a huge burst dmg tool table.

Huge burst increase? Thankyou for further confirming you have no idea what you're talking about and are simply looking for your favourite class to be given "I win" mode.

Its nonsense, that the most indestructible AC has the greatest burst DMG (jug) till the most glass class absolutely lacking in it....

For starters a jug/guard in focus spec is far from indestructible, though yes for a dps spec it does have decent survivability. Granted the whole derp sweep spec needs to be toned down a bit (have already said that previously) but then they're not the only spec that needs some slight changes in that respect. Assault/Pyro spec for BH's/Troopers is up there too.

There are few games, where back peddle is a wrong action in pvp, but not in SWTOR...

Back peddling is never the best approach.

(when you slow your opponent and you should face him to land your spell, what you do? You run away? ....

When you back peddle you cut your own movement speed in half. Pretty much defeats the purpose of even slowing them when you're making yourself run at half speed genius. If you don't know what circle strafing is/can't be bothered learning, then I'd suggest you roll something other than a sage or sorc.

By the way, try to kite better when 99% of your spells are channeling ones....

I do, every time I log my sage on. To be quite blunt your movement in that vid was nothing short of abysmal at times. My sage/sorc isn't even my main and I still use it more fluidly. Learn to kite.

May I ask what class are you playing?...

My main is a Gunslinger, so between playing him and the sage/sorc I am more than familiar with the trouble that can arise from having the majority of your skills based around an induction timer. Though I have several alts, including a sage and a sorc, and in terms of both pve and pvp I've found them to be incredibly versatile and easily able to hold their own in 1 vs 1's.

Can you show us one of your wids,

If I can be bothered installing fraps sometime soon I'll be sure to stick one up, even with my already poor ping rate.

what you made with your Sage/Sorc just to let us learn a bit how to kite.

Both my Sage and Sorc run in hybrid spec for pvp with a mix of Seer/Telekinetics. This makes them extremely difficult to kill (if you keep moving and know how to kite) and allows you to provide good team support in wz's.

Regardless of this, the spec has nothing to do with you needing to learn to kite. While some builds offer more cc to assist with it, you need to learn how to actually kite. Instead of just the back peddle.

(please don't flee this one, if you don't have, just upload one, its 10 minutes...)

Again, get yourself a dictionary or find an online translator. I haven't the patience to sit here trying to decipher your pigeon english

Yea, it seems an exaggeration, no doubt , ) and it was not 2 sec..

It looked like:

-jugg jump on me (bubble goes down immediately it stuns him, he break the cc)

Force charge/leap is not that strong of an attack to break bubble. Moving on.

-I push the hotkey "weaken mind" till that my hp goes to 70%. I start to push hotkey "turbulance"

-jugg hit and pushback my turbulance (my hp is on 45%)

-jugg hit and pushback my turbulance (my hp is on 10%)

-jugg hit and pushback my turbulance (my hp is on 0%)

-Jugg is on 95% hp

Stun->Force speed->force lift (you did say he broke the cc). Next.

Force charge/leap is not that strong of an attack to break bubble. Moving on.

 

Stun->Force speed->force lift (you did say he broke the cc). Next.

The bubble went down, maybe I sucked something else as well....

Stun - 1 minute cd, its not that cool to use force speed when you channel a spell, force lift 1 minute cd and forget about it if its not insta. Next? : )

If you allow me to do an off-topic post...

Back peddling is never the best approach.

While it's true on SWTOR, it's not true for all MMOs.

I know at least 2 MMOs where back peddling can be a good way to handle a fight.

This is why I'm bored to read some comments of people judging others and calling them noobs if they dare to back peddle in a vid.

But there's nothing personal here, it's just that the claim caught my sight while I was skipping through this thread as it wasn't 100% right because it's not universal like it implied, and I felt like I had to express my disapproval with the general attitude against back peddlers. It's just that I had to quote someone, and it happened to be you.

I swear I won't bother this thread anymore.

armour Thankyou favourite english

Ok we all can agree, than your English is way better then my, but where is the vid? : ) Are you just editing the perfect English title or an epic narration?

We are still waiting for your Sage/Sorc vid, where you show us how to kite.

 

I know at least 2 MMOs where back peddling can be a good way to handle a fight..

Feel free to name them.

Ok we all can agree, than your English is way better then my, but where is the vid? : ) Are you just editing the perfect English title or an epic narration?

We are still waiting for your Sage/Sorc vid, where you show us how to kite.

We? You have someone in your pocket or are you suffering from multiple personality disorder? Get over to youtube and spend some time watching people use circle kiting (granted a lot of sage skills can't be used while doing that as they have inductions, but you should still learn how it's done. Especially if it breaks you out of that habit of back peddling) I would recomend some of Taugrims vids for starters, no shortage of them up there.

Feel free to name them.

Warhammer Online and Aion. Even if back peddling is not always the good way in these games, there are some situations when it's necessary.

Jedi Sage

expertise: 1280

willpower : 1880

telekinetic tree

So I have to start all my rotation with weaken mind + turbulence... weaken mind insta turbulence takes 2 sec. Till that time(2 sec) a jug can kill me (force armor on)

 

Happy shmashmass!

Alright to own a Jug or Maurader who is equally geared as you so there is no expertise advantage this is the rotation I recommend to use.

If the jug initiates the fight. Start it this way.

Instant cast mind snap.

Throw on bubble and mentain distance.

He will leep towards you, you respawn with force weave to push him way.

Dot him with weakend mind. and telek throw.

Once he has close ground he will force chock you. Save your trinkit for this occasion and break free.

Slow him down with force slow and force speed your butt to a safe distance.

Dot him with Mind crush + weakend mind + telek throw.

He will be at 50% health. He again will close the distance so keep throwing your instant cast of force slow.

Ever second you get keep up your bubble guard up. So that his first counter attackes get absorbed.

Self heal yourself with Self heal for an instant buff, then hit alacrity boost, and shoot him with Turbulance and Telek wave. This will blast him down to 20% health.

Mind snap will off cool down. When he force leeps to you to close the distance. Hit him with mind snap. Dot him with mind crush for instant crit + weakend mind and telek throw and kit his butt tell he bleeds to death.

You win

Honestly beating a Jugg with a sage is easy peasy if you are smart and know how to counter his every move.

A sage needs to be two steps ahead of every one he faces because he is a squishy target. However when you master the art of hit and run. People will try to avoid attacking your first, then you will have the arena to pick people off with your more bursty flashy moves that have cast times.

I know what you mean, I played "Darkfall" for 3 years before I switched to swtor, , )

I still using it with my Scoundrel, but sometimes I laughing on my self, because this game is auto aim, and I know well, that when my commando starts to channel grav round and a scoundrel, operative, assassin, shadow kiting around me like if he where in an FPS game, I don't have to do anything, my char is facing him, no matter how he moves (I wish it would be different here...) so he can land a back hit only if I stop channeling, or he stun me. IMO this could need a fix as well, but in that case it means a new engine , )

I was crossing my fingers when swtor launch was announced, for a non auto aim server, but it never will arrive : /

 

The balance spec has options for insta cast, FB - but its on 15 sec cd and the others are in the end of a combo what you have to start with a few sec of channeling.

Another problem in my eyes, we have the most sensitive AC (minimal defense, hp) so hes goal for survive would be kiting, but its the only ranged class who don't have ranged auto attack (even in his secondary dmg table, the main attribute, the willpower don't counts - you don't see another class like that in the game) and he is coursed with a bunch of channeling spells what simply root him down lol

 

But I thanks for your advice and I will try to set up some kind of kiting with my Sage.

That assumption is not entirely correct. You have to face your enemy in order for auto target to work. A you can't hit some one who is standing behind you or away from your LOS. Kiting does work in SWTOR you just need to be resourceful and fast.

That assumption is not entirely correct. You have to face your enemy in order for auto target to work. A you can't hit some one who is standing behind you or away from your LOS. Kiting does work in SWTOR you just need to be resourceful and fast.

Thanks for your advices! I will try the rotation, what you mentioned above, in your last post.

By the way, I started to play with my guardian a bit to know my enemy better , ) Maybe it will help as well.

About the auto targeting, if you face an enemy and start to channel one spell, till you don't change to another spell, but keep channeling it and the opponent don't interrupts you, break your channeling and sticky back so you lose your direction or he don't use the 4 sec break, your character will follow him and face him till the above mentioned interrupts.

Have a try, with TT or grav round. (now I share an opinion what is vs Sage, but this one should be fixed maybe , ))

Dear fellow Sage's it seems we have to find somehow a force sensitive keyboard and mouse to kite this : D

Original post : http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=580872

Warhammer Online and Aion. Even if back peddling is not always the good way in these games, there are some situations when it's necessary.

I can't speak for Aion as I wasn't impressed enough with the game to play much into it, but Warhammer? Don't make me laugh, back peddling wasn't a good move there. Over two years of constant pvp there and I never found a reason to back peddle on any of my characters.

I can't speak for Aion as I wasn't impressed enough with the game to play much into it, but Warhammer? Don't make me laugh, back peddling wasn't a good move there. Over two years of constant pvp there and I never found a reason to back peddle on any of my characters.

Flanking, do you remember it ? Or also the tactic that White Lion have to ignore partially the armor when attacking on the side ? Each time you try escape by side steps but you can't because you're also snared, you let these guys doing better damage on you.

And do not forget that parry dodge and block works only from the front, so that if you try side steps you were exposing yourself to non-negligible chances that attacks were considered coming from behind, annihilating all chances of avoidance, and sometimes allowing some nasty hits like Witch Hunters ' Seeker blade to work pretty well, which is terrible when it happens to a tank.

Tank were also often in situation where they had to sustain attacks from numerous opponents, which the only way to not let a single one slip behind you was to back peddle. With it you can easily funnel all your opponents in front of you.

I hope you weren't a tank there because if you tried to retreat with Hold the Line without back peddling, your back lines would end up in a disastrous state.

As for Aion which I only played two months (unlike WAR which lasted 3 years with their dumb "packs" which ruined the game IMO), in combat movements induct stat bonuses, and back peddling increases parry and block.

Flanking, do you remember it ? Or also the tactic that White Lion have to ignore partially the armor when attacking on the side ?.

For which circle strafing was far more viable. Back peddling only works there if your opponent is stupid enough to let you get away with it.

And do not forget that parry dodge and block works only from the front, so that if you try side steps you were exposing yourself to non-negligible chances that attacks were considered coming from behind, annihilating all chances of avoidance, .

Again, you're better off circle strafing your opponent, assuming they're going to be stupid enough to just let you back peddle isn't smart. Once you back peddle your movement speed goes to hell, so anyone worth their salt will take advantage of it to gain positional attacks.

which the only way to not let a single one slip behind you was to back peddle. With it you can easily funnel all your opponents in front of you.

.

If they were stupid enough to play along sure, but you can't build good pvp strategy around assuming your opponents are idiots who are going to let you get away with that.

For which circle strafing was far more viable. Back peddling only works there if your opponent is stupid enough to let you get away with it.

You know, Flanking had a quite impressive radius of effect. 270 degree since it works all the time except when in front. When you play a character with Flanking as well, you could do some circle straffing, as both of you tend to be with Flanking effective. But when you don't have it, and you don't have a way to avoid melee, it shows to be an hindrance.

And when I played with my Witch Elf (why did they never fix suffering), if both me and my opponent were straffing, i was the one who started straffing, most of the times I was able to hit with my positional stun and if I wasn't I couldn't. It meant that when you've been attacked by a Choppa, Slayer, Witch Elf or Witch Hunter, which have attacks to use from the back, there were high chances that they still had the upper hand on you. It was especially risky if you also depend on avoidance.

It was safe to sometimes break the straffing with a little back ped making the opponent in front, and letting you choose when to straf again (and giving you the upper hand).

There are also situations where circle straffing was a plain bad idea : what will happen if as a tank I circle straf around a WH in a group fight ? When I'll be half round, I'll just show my back to all the Bright Wizards and others in the backline and at this point, I could as well dump my shield. I followed the same reasoning if I had to use some 100% avoidance type abilities (except for disruption which works at 360 degree), it is much more effective if nobody's behind me.

And concerning the fact that back ped works only if the opponent let go with it, it's wrong. It's just that you didn't face someone good at it. In a game with collision management, you will never find the back of a peddler who knows what he's doing.

But I think we go a bit too much off-topic.

The bubble went down, maybe I sucked something else as well....

Stun - 1 minute cd, its not that cool to use force speed when you channel a spell, force lift 1 minute cd and forget about it if its not insta. Next? : )

None said anything about casting an offensive ability. You are in melee range of a melee dps and your first priority is to make distance. If stun is on cooldown you can always use your 5sec root knockback, followed by speed and force lift, and due to the distance you have time to cast it (throw even a force slow in between to give yourself more time for the force lift), taking him out of the game for 8 secs. Key point here is get out of melee range if you want to live.

None said anything about casting an offensive ability. You are in melee range of a melee dps and your first priority is to make distance. If stun is on cooldown you can always use your 5sec root knockback, followed by speed and force lift, and due to the distance you have time to cast it (throw even a force slow in between to give yourself more time for the force lift), taking him out of the game for 8 secs. Key point here is get out of melee range if you want to live.

Ok, thanks!

Next time I will make distance , )