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I don't see Vader being 'all that'


Twolow

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I haven't watched the films in years but with a renewed interest after playing SWTOR I watched the original three and now just finished episode 1 and 2 and mostly through episode 3 but it got me thinking....

 

I remembered Vader as being 'totally badazz' but it was in my nostalgic brain I think as he really doesn't do that much in the movies. He walks around barking orders, telling his officers his latest demands and that he is displeased. He has a few fight scenes but for the most part nothing 'all powerful'. The fight scenes were short and nothing elaborate but I attribute that to the time period it was filmed. He did choke one guy but can't every force user do that or was that his 'best of the best' ability?

 

So now we have the prequels that constantly foreshadow the second coming of Jesus. The Jedi conceived with no father. The all powerful God that will bring order to the force, blah blah. They are constantly hyping up this boy/teenager but I don't see it. The Jedis feared this boy because he could grow up and be in middle management and choke people?

 

I find myself watching the prequels more to see the rise of the Emperor and not the Vader story because he is nothing more than a office manager constantly walking around telling everyone he is very displeased.

 

TLDR; My vision of 'the worst villan of all time' Vader was trapped in childhood fantasy until I watched them again.

Edited by Twolow
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You comparing movies from two ENTIRELY different eras.....but enough about that, if you wanna see Vader be more of a BA the EU surrounding him will give you just that. Movies are limited in what they can do, novels/books however the only limitation is the author's mind. Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Vader is not super god ******. He just was naturally gifted in the force. The whole prophecy thing was he was supposed to bring balance to the force... which he did. 2 sith, Vader and Emperor, and two jedi, obiwan and yoda. Obi died, luke becomes jedi. Still balanced.

 

If you count the books, it gets more convoluted, but follows a the same plot hook.

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well i think that one of the most characteristic things of darth veider is the fear he creates. why not give orders when everyone fears him so much to disobay ? that doesnt make him a bad guy ? well in my opinion it makes him

 

not to mention that besides choking peeps, he kills jedi masters with lightsabers (obi-wan), he cuts people hands when he wants too like with luke skywalker, he traps people in death traps like he did in han solo and he kills the sith emperor and at the same time the emperor of the republic with one hand and at the same time he saves his son that fullfill his destiny as the one that will bring -temporary- balance to the force, isnt that enough ? ? ?

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well i think that one of the most characteristic things of darth veider is the fear he creates. why not give orders when everyone fears him so much to disobay ? that doesnt make him a bad guy ? well in my opinion it makes him

 

not to mention that besides choking peeps, he kills jedi masters with lightsabers (obi-wan), he cuts people hands when he wants too like with luke skywalker, he traps people in death traps like he did in han solo and he kills the sith emperor and at the same time the emperor of the republic with one hand and at the same time he saves his son that fullfill his destiny as the one that will bring -temporary- balance to the force, isnt that enough ? ? ?

 

Not to mention he force choked someone THOUGH A TV SCREEN. That's pretty impressive.

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. The whole prophecy thing was he was supposed to bring balance to the force... which he did. 2 sith, Vader and Emperor, and two jedi, obiwan and yoda. Obi died, luke becomes jedi. Still balanced.

 

No. :csw_vader: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

 

 

He destroyed the sith thus bringing balance (order) to the force. He killed the Emperor and was redemmed to the light side thus ending the Sith once and for all.

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Vader is more about what he's made up to be rather than what he is in the films.

 

Early on, Vader was conceived as nothing more than a regular villain. The whole father/emperor plot wasn't tagged on until later.

 

The films were also shot in a different era and under difficult conditions. He may not seem menacing or all-powerful for today's audiences but he certainly did back then.

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Vader was cool, man. He had style.

 

"I find your lack of faith disturbing."

 

"You are in command now, Admiral Piett."

 

"Apology accepted, Captain Needa."

 

"Perhaps you think you're being treated unfairly?"

 

Don't forget.

 

"I am altering the deal, pray I don't alter it any further." :csw_vader:

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You comparing movies from two ENTIRELY different eras.....but enough about that, if you wanna see Vader be more of a BA the EU surrounding him will give you just that. Movies are limited in what they can do, novels/books however the only limitation is the author's mind.

 

This, this, this. A thousand times this.

 

The OT was made in the 70's/80's of course the PT looks better, of course the force powers are more realistic, making it more intimidating. They were limited by the technology of their time, and did an amazing job with what they had, but they couldn't make massive fight scenes and throw force powers all over the place.

 

Also if you want to see Vader as a bad *** read the novels like wolf said.

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we have this argument every 5 seconds. Vader was in a movie, and is THE CHOSEN ONE, therefore he is > than any Non Movie Character.

 

don't mistake me for saying that anyone in the movies is automatically better than anyone who isn't, but I would assume GL would have intended for them to matter more in the Universe as a whole. and THE CHOSEN ONE of that universe should, then, mean more than anyone else in the universe. (Except, as many would argue, Luke Skywalker).

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Well, in the movies he was able to force choke one of his generals todeath light years away while talking to the newly promoted general about the attack he wants done on Hoth (If I recall correctly!).

 

Thats wrong, he was on the Executor(same as Ozzel) and choked him. Makes sense seeing as Ozzel was incharge of the Executor, and it was Vader's flagship.

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It sucks that starkiller beat him twice. I hope in FU3 it turns out Vader just let him win or wasn't trying his hardest or something.

 

Its a game so i don't count it too much when it comes to Garen beating Vader, because there would be no point in making the game if you got to Vader and he was unbeatable.

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I did put in my post that I understood the filming style of the era but I still think they could have included him more in the combat to reveal exactly why he is so feared by the Rebels. I know he was feared by his own men because in true villain form he would kill his henchmen but every villain does that. Villains always drop their henchmen through trap doors in the floor or kill them with a gun the second they screw up. Its movie writing establishing them as villains.

 

Of all the combat shown in the movies I only ever remember him in one space battle. If he was the God of force users as detailed in his youth then you would think he wouldn't leave the ground combat to his subordinates over and over that constantly kept failing. Had he quit pacing the ship and hanging out in his egg shaped bed with his helmet off and fought in these battles just once then I would have concluded "oh, thats why they fear him and that is why he a force to be recon'ed with!"

 

The most powerful asset to the Empire and he wasn't used short of issuing orders. It's like if Superman was real and we sent him to Iraq to help with the US war effort and he spent his time there in a tent issuing orders to the generals. That is not using Superman to the fullest.

 

"Superman, thank god your here! Our soldiers on that ridge are getting killed left and right!" Superman nods, "I'll save them. Send a second squad here, and then send your tanks around their flank. That should do it." *Flies away*

Edited by Twolow
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No. :csw_vader: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

 

 

He destroyed the sith thus bringing balance (order) to the force. He killed the Emperor and was redemmed to the light side thus ending the Sith once and for all.

 

Oh boy, are you in for a shock lol.

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we have this argument every 5 seconds. Vader was in a movie, and is THE CHOSEN ONE, therefore he is > than any Non Movie Character.

 

Darth Vader/Anakin and Darth Bane is the "chosen ones" as of what I can think of..

 

 

latter one being the more important one IMO.

 

Lore wise, going chronologically, I doubt the times the movies were set in, would be the same if it wasnt for Bane..

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Darth Vader/Anakin and Darth Bane is the "chosen ones" as of what I can think of..

 

 

latter one being the more important one IMO.

 

Lore wise, going chronologically, I doubt the times the movies were set in, would be the same if it wasnt for Bane..

 

Bane called himself the chosen one, The "Sith'ari"..

But that was only his arrogance talking, He never was the chosen one, Just a sith lord..

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I did put in my post that I understood the filming style of the era but I still think they could have included him more in the combat to reveal exactly why he is so feared by the Rebels. I know he was feared by his own men because in true villain form he would kill his henchmen but every villain does that. Villains always drop their henchmen through trap doors in the floor or kill them with a gun the second they screw up. Its movie writing establishing them as villains.

 

Of all the combat shown in the movies I only ever remember him in one space battle. If he was the God of force users as detailed in his youth then you would think he wouldn't leave the ground combat to his subordinates over and over that constantly kept failing. Had he quit pacing the ship and hanging out in his egg shaped bed with his helmet off and fought in these battles just once then I would have concluded "oh, thats why they fear him and that is why he a force to be recon'ed with!"

 

The most powerful asset to the Empire and he wasn't used short of issuing orders. It's like if Superman was real and we sent him to Iraq to help with the US war effort and he spent his time there in a tent issuing orders to the generals. That is not using Superman to the fullest.

 

"Superman, thank god your here! Our soldiers on that ridge are getting killed left and right!" Superman nods, "I'll save them. Send a second squad here, and then send your tanks around their flank. That should do it." *Flies away*

 

You are missing everything of actual importance here.

 

Cool fight scenes don't make a great character. It was his presence. The voice. The mask. The mechanical breathing. Vader didn't need to DO anything, you knew he was a ****** the moment he appears on screen. From a storytelling stand point it's the way everyone around him reacts to him that gives Vaders presence weight, not whether we see him force choke fifty rebels at once.

 

It seems like you're saying how BA a character is relates to how many big fight scenes they have.

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