I agree!

 

 

All the skills should be exactally the same.. all the cooldowns all the bonues effects *ie: stun, silence, whatever*, everything for all of the classes!

IE Dirty Kick and Project and the sith mirrors, im not sure what else exists, but mirrors need to be actual mirrors, or one side gets an advantage.

 

The IA version of dirty kick does not stop the movement of the IA using it, but dirty kick does. When you use dirty kick as a smuggler, it roots you in place to perform the animation This may seem like a little thing, but when you are trying to stop a huttball runner, or kick someone as you run through them to back blast someone... it makes a huge difference in a twitch based class.

 

Not to mention, its just not fair. Mirrors should be mirrors, dont go the WAR route and make mirror classes that are only 80% mirrors. We saw how that worked out with the KOTBS mirror and its spirit damage procs.

 

Project has a travel time, the sith equivalent does not. Again this is a huge advantage for the sith side even if you think it is just something small, it isnt. Think about running in huttball. A guy may cross the goal line before that project that would have killed him reaches him, where as a Sith would have finished him off.

 

PvP is about squeezing out every little bit of everything you can to beat your opponent. Right now the Sith Empire has a few advantages over republic, and although may seem small, nothing is small when it comes to PvP.

 

 

Also while you are at it, take a look at electrocute. From what I gather from reading and doing actual PvP, nothing stops this ability. It stuns people with full resolve bars, it pulls people out of cover, and when a scoundrel blows dodge (for you WoW players its cloak of shadows) it still lands. In fact, i was playing my scoundrel who had a full resolve bar and dodge up, and I got stunned by electrocute.

 

Force stun definitely doesnt do any of that.

 

Leading up to the game several of the Devs talked about how awesome the Sith Empire was, and how they would be playing Sith. And now look at these discrepancies, look at the numbers of sith VS reps on PvP servers and the discussions people are having about the pop imbalance and how open world is becoming insane and people are rerolling sith etc...

 

And then think about how this exact same thing happened in WoW when some of the Devs went public and said they played horde.

 

When is a faction based video games developers NOT going to repeat this mistake.

 

Is the fact that sith are favored necessarily true? No, not 100% irrefutable. But the fact is the Devs are creating that impression, and we all know perception is reality to the masses.

 

Lets bring the classes in line before this whole thing spirals out of control, aside from the fact that it is just the right thing to do.

 

Edit-

 

I want people to realize this isnt about all classes being the same, this is about the fact that their are 8 classes in this game, not 16. Gunslinger and Sniper are one class, not two. Scoundrel and operative are the same class, Sage and Sorcerer are the same class.

 

Logistically these classes should be the same so their is balance between factions.

 

This is about factional balance, NOT CLASS BALANCE.

 

Its not about Sorcerers being the same as bounty hunters, its about sorcerers being the same as sage, and Knights being the same as warriors.

 

As someone said, you cannot spec out of what animations do to you, nothing changes this. And as it stands right now, it seems sith have all the better animations that lead to better and faster usage of abilities.

 

So right now here is the list as I see it so far.

 

BH unload operates better then full auto, although I need more elaboration on that.

 

BH Death from Above does its damage more immediately then mortar volley and thus is harder to avoid. if you watch Trooper PvP videos you can actually see how often mortar volley doesnt do any damage because of this, I just didnt realize this was the reason.

 

SI shock does its damage immediately leading to better on demand burst, where as project as more of an RP animation and a travel time.

 

Smuggler Dirty kick stops the forward movement OF THE SMUGGLER, where as the IA version does not stop the forward movement of the IA. In other words, when a smuggler uses dirty kick it roots them in place, this is not so for IA's.

 

IA flash bang is on a 60 seconds CD, smugglers is on a 90 second CD. Otherwise the skills are exactly the same. So why does one class get a shorter cooldown on the exact same skill?

 

Edit-

 

Here is the full auto issue

 

 

 

 

Edit-

IA backstab happens instantly where as the smuggler back blast requires the animation of pulling out a shotgun, leveling it, blasting it and putting it away.

 

I support this message

Another random Gunslinger vs Sniper thing.

 

Gunslingers have to get more accuracy gear to do the same damage as a Snipers white hits due to using 2 blasters.

The trooper and the kick seem to be the only ones that actually make a difference.

The trooper and the kick seem to be the only ones that actually make a difference.

 

Really?

IA's acomplished doctor gives 30% of bonus heal crit, while Smuggler's Acomplished Sawbones gives only 15%.

How does such imbalances not get caught in beta?

How does such imbalances not get caught in beta?

 

Because none of this really matters as far as gameplay is concerned, besides the differing CDs.

 

People will whine over the tiniest things.

Dear mr OP. you state the electrocute allways stuns the target regardless of resolve bar. This is WRONG. i have presonally had several experiences, especially in huttball, were the target would not get stunned at all when i used it. Please play the class, or at least check your sources before stating what's not right.

Dear mr OP. you state the electrocute allways stuns the target regardless of resolve bar. This is WRONG. i have presonally had several experiences, especially in huttball, were the target would not get stunned at all when i used it. Please play the class, or at least check your sources before stating what's not right.

 

That is actually a bug with huttball. There are times you can't even knock back the ball carrier.

The trooper and the kick seem to be the only ones that actually make a difference.

 

I can see the difference on my Project skill as a sage. When talented and proced I throw two rocks at the enemy and then the animation takes longer than 1s. I'd say it's closer to 2 than 1. I died a couple times because of that - killed after I launched Project, which should kill the target instantly, got killed and then my target died from Project damage.

 

It does make a difference.

 

Also: resolve does nothing for me. I even recorded one of the scenarios and it does absolutely nothing. I have it full, it's decreasing, I get stunned, gripped, knocked back to hell, whatever. Fills back up and here we go again. And again... and again.

 

Regards,

Kalantris

The trooper and the kick seem to be the only ones that actually make a difference.

 

So two rocks hitting you in 1, then close to 2 seconds doesn't actually make any difference compared to two shocks hitting you instantly at the moment you press the button? Quite the ignorant way of looking at major problems. As much as i love the "RP" element of throwing rocks, R2D2s and other droid parts at someone's face, project is completely inferior compared to shock. Why? Because i have a 50 sage and i played a sorc in the beta and i can tell you that the difference is HUGE. And all this because of a stupid animation. Basically project is not instant.

 

Watch the difference:

 

 

And this is from 15m. The skill has 30m range. So if you shoot from maximum distance it will actually take MORE time to reach the target. And the funny thing - 4 pieces Champ set bonus that gives Project/Shock +5m more range. So this becomes 35m. And this means it becomes even worse. The longer the distance is, project becomes worse and worse. And you don't see a problem with that? In PvP this is a huge problem since it's one of our main instant nukes - stopping runners, initial burst, finishing off ppl (if i shoot a Shock at you - no potion or shield can save you because it instantly hits you, if i shoot a Project - you can CAST/USE pot and save yourself, because the damn rock arrives in ~2 sec...).

 

So here's one major difference between 2 supposedly "mirrored" classes.

 

How does such imbalances not get caught in beta?

 

It got caught. They just didn't do anything to fix it. Unless all these "minor imbalances" were intended...

Edited January 9, 2012 by Drakaris

It's more than a little off putting that the devs clearly favor the Empire. I saw it coming a mile away too.

 

Every time they show cased the game live they all played Empire and wore Empire shirts. I understand that they are human but it's their responsibility to be as objective as they can be when it comes to the two factions. They clearly have not been objective at all. At the expense of the Republic faction's functionality and appearance.

 

There are too many discrepancies where the Empire mirror has the advantage for this to be written off as unfortunate coincidences.

 

Play a Jedi Knight and listen to Kira's filler dialogue where she says something about all of the good fashion designers going dark side. It's like a developer thought it would be cheeky and funny to add a subtle insult to the injury of being the visually inferior faction.

 

They were aware of these things before release and nothing was done to minimize the discrepancies. Why?

 

And why haven't we gotten an official response about all of this?

 

I really hate that this huge, ugly, glaring scar is on this game. It detracts from the overall enjoyment of the game for me in a very big way and I know that I'm not alone in this.

Edited January 9, 2012 by Skeptical

They were aware of these things before release and nothing was done to minimize the discrepancies. Why?

 

They're taking copying blizzard to a whole other level?

I love the people actually defending the fact that some skills that should be mirrored are blatantly weaker for republic. There is no excuse for the game going live with talents as much as 50% weaker for one side. It's just incompetence and insulting to the players that have to put up with the weaker skills. Edited January 9, 2012 by Afulia

I love the people actually defending the fact that some skills that should be mirrored are blatantly weaker for republic. There is no excuse for the game going live with talents as much as 50% weaker for one side. It's just incompetence and insulting to the players that have to put up with the weaker skills.

 

It's not incompetence. I think it's just a complete disregard for the Republic faction. Almost all of these issues are easily fixed and could be done so in a few hotfixes. The fact that none of these issues except for the Scoundrel/IA cooldown has even been addressed shows us that the developers don't see the imbalances as a priority fix and therefore further solidify the favoritism shown to one faction over the other.

 

Look at the patch notes for 1.1; they make an adjustment to Project and it has absolutely nothing to do with the imbalance between Project and Shock.

 

Look at this vid:

 

Would it have hurt the dev team to front load the damage on Project so that it's not dependent on the animation until they can find a better solution?

 

Not to mention the talent discrepancy in Smuggler versus IA. It's a mirrored talent that gives higher upgraded bonuses per talent to one faction. This is a hotfixable easy one to address and it's taken this long to even get someone to acknowledge the discrepancy.

 

It's more than a little off-putting.

The IA/Smuggler flashbang might be the the most glaring. It's not even a animation issue, they just straight up have a lower cooldown, POR QUE!? At least it's not a core skill.

 

Also from videos I watch ops have way smoother and faster animations, Republic is already the weaker PvP faction just based on the playerbase, so why give even more hadicaps? I wouldn't mind small faction changes in skills but you gotta give something to make up for what you take away.

Edited January 9, 2012 by johnnyomara

The more I look into this and the more I read about all of the differences, the more it pisses me off.

 

Why does every single advantage go to the Empire?

 

Can anyone site one difference in mirror class functionality that favors the Republic?

 

From animations, to front loaded damage, to mirrored talents... every single advantage goes to the Empire. That's insane.

 

It's absurd that there are so many differences and they all favor the Empire players. Every base class has at least one mirror discrepancy and they all favor the Empire player.

 

This issue is more than deserving of a letter to the community from someone on the dev team.

 

This is bush-league stuff and it exacerbates the skewed faction populations.

 

And to address this, instead of balancing the class so that they truly reflect each other, they're making more Warzones cross-faction playable.

 

Awesome...

Edited January 9, 2012 by Skeptical

What he said

 

Oh, and stop thinkin that the reason you're losing to class X is because of class balance. It's a l2p issue.

 

/thread

 

You're right, when the republic whens any wz with these disadvantages it is a L2P issue...for the EMPIRE.

Unload loses channel time on damage just like full auto, just so you know. At least that's been my experience on my BH. Maybe full auto loses more, I don't know, but I know unload loses damage on getting hit.

The devs have already said their working to fix these issues. By issues I mean the problems with unmirrored cooldowns etc. Many issues brought up by people as imbalance are mistakes on their part in understanding classes. For example a jedi shadow saying that they have only a 10m range on their rocks while sith sorcerers have 30m range with lightening and calling it an overpowered class because of it. I wasn't aware melee classes should have ranged distance abilities. There are many abilities affected by talents or simply the advanced class choice. A reminder for those who forgot or weren't aware of this. Edited January 9, 2012 by Wasbeer

So two rocks hitting you in 1, then close to 2 seconds doesn't actually make any difference compared to two shocks hitting you instantly at the moment you press the button? Quite the ignorant way of looking at major problems. As much as i love the "RP" element of throwing rocks, R2D2s and other droid parts at someone's face, project is completely inferior compared to shock. Why? Because i have a 50 sage and i played a sorc in the beta and i can tell you that the difference is HUGE. And all this because of a stupid animation. Basically project is not instant.

 

Watch the difference:

 

 

And this is from 15m. The skill has 30m range. So if you shoot from maximum distance it will actually take MORE time to reach the target. And the funny thing - 4 pieces Champ set bonus that gives Project/Shock +5m more range. So this becomes 35m. And this means it becomes even worse. The longer the distance is, project becomes worse and worse. And you don't see a problem with that? In PvP this is a huge problem since it's one of our main instant nukes - stopping runners, initial burst, finishing off ppl (if i shoot a Shock at you - no potion or shield can save you because it instantly hits you, if i shoot a Project - you can CAST/USE pot and save yourself, because the damn rock arrives in ~2 sec...).

 

So here's one major difference between 2 supposedly "mirrored" classes.

 

 

 

It got caught. They just didn't do anything to fix it. Unless all these "minor imbalances" were intended...

 

 

Lightning travels at 3,700 miles per second. How fast do you think throwing a giant rock would take?

Not letting this die.

Also while you are at it, take a look at electrocute. From what I gather from reading and doing actual PvP, nothing stops this ability. It stuns people with full resolve bars, it pulls people out of cover, and when a scoundrel blows dodge (for you WoW players its cloak of shadows) it still lands. In fact, i was playing my scoundrel who had a full resolve bar and dodge up, and I got stunned by electrocute.

 

 

Couple of things here. Dodge does nothing to protect against electrocute or force stun. It gives 100% protection against ranged and melee attacks. It does didly for force and tech attacks. Electrocute is a force attack.

 

Electrocute does not ignore resolve. I've tested it since I have been seeing this claim a good deal. Did a /duel with a buddy and my Jugg. Just remember you are only immune after the bar has fully filled (the semicircle one above your portrate, not the one above your character [it fills on 800 resolve points while it takes 1000 to grant immunity) and is decaying back to 0. You probably were not quite full when the stun hit you.

Every one of these bugs is in favor of empire. Considering the population imbalance, can we get some priority on getting these fixed?