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Remove MATs for Losing Teams, Double for Winners


Foambreaker

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I do understand the OP I mean there are teams which just go in and die. It happens so fast you dont even get the CXP and UCs for the match as it ended too quick. I have to say that is not fun at all.

 

Well I will say what I already said before there is a trend in this, peopel do what is rewarded the most, so why not balance out the rewards over all parts of the game instead of giving it one by one???

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Very absurd...

 

You want the prices to never go down, don't you ? The less people have access to mats wich are high deman(sold after less than after posting 1 min), the more the prices will stay as they are.

 

The winners get double, there would be EXACTLY the same number of mats per match.

 

I thought all you posters in the PvP forums were winners but I guess not. :p

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Simple fix to the Total Fk Up that is now group ranked.

 

Have to disagree with your statement.. Premades control the flow of things.. from elo - mats, they have the resources and personal to do so.. they're stack.. and if the rewards are based on wins then everyone else will get nothing..except over price stuff at the gtn.. group rank is fine..

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Would you please tell us what content is it, besides ranked PvP, where you need these new augments? Afaik all PvE content can be completed without anything from 2.6.

 

NiM Operations are more difficult than Ranked PVP and require a higher level of skill. It's night and day. I'm sure some hardcore PVPers will disagree heh. I'd have to contend that even the best in Ranked who did not have significant HM/NiM experience would not be up to the challenge of most NiM level Operations.

 

A great deal of NiM Operation content could be done without gear of a greater rating of 224, but among those people who could meet the challenges and demands of NiM Operations successfully while under such conditions, they would comprise perhaps 5-10% at most of the current player base .

 

I was a progression raider almost exclusively until about 6 months prior to 5.0 dropping and only made the total switch from raider to PVPer when 5.0 hit. When I started to get into PVP I already head a good deal of experience in NiM level content and I couldn't have possibly sucked more in PVP, so it does cut both ways to a degree. They both require levels of skill, but they are very different skills needed for each style of play.

 

While your statement ["Afaik all PvE content can be completed without anything from 2.6."] is technically accurate, although not to the extent that gear from 2.6 era would be sufficient for standing a chance at NiM clears, those capable of getting clears in NiM Boss fights with lesser gear [224+] are rare in the extreme.

 

I would say with a fair amount certainty that even the best Ranked PVPer ever who didn't have a good amount of experience in raiding, would do like total and utter garbage in NiM level content at any gear/augment level. I personally would go as far as to say that these new augments are more necessary for NiM level Operations content than they are for Ranked PVP. Skill levels vary in PVP and some class/spec's have it better than others in the PVP environment. You can find 'bads' in PVP. There are no 'bad' bosses in NiM Operations, and they are always 7000X times more powerful than any player. In almost all cases, you stand no chance against them individually and without every member on that raid team being at the top of their game.

 

Some people do/have done both, and that is really the only perspective from which an unbiased appraisal can be made. After all, PVEers and PVPers haven't always demonstrated good sportsmanship to one another =p

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NiM Operations are more difficult than Ranked PVP and require a higher level of skill. It's night and day. I'm sure some hardcore PVPers will disagree heh. I'd have to contend that even the best in Ranked who did not have significant HM/NiM experience would not be up to the challenge of most NiM level Operations.

 

A great deal of NiM Operation content could be done without gear of a greater rating of 224, but among those people who could meet the challenges and demands of NiM Operations successfully while under such conditions, they would comprise perhaps 5-10% at most of the current player base .

 

I was a progression raider almost exclusively until about 6 months prior to 5.0 dropping and only made the total switch from raider to PVPer when 5.0 hit. When I started to get into PVP I already head a good deal of experience in NiM level content and I couldn't have possibly sucked more in PVP, so it does cut both ways to a degree. They both require levels of skill, but they are very different skills needed for each style of play.

 

While your statement ["Afaik all PvE content can be completed without anything from 2.6."] is technically accurate, although not to the extent that gear from 2.6 era would be sufficient for standing a chance at NiM clears, those capable of getting clears in NiM Boss fights with lesser gear [224+] are rare in the extreme.

 

I would say with a fair amount certainty that even the best Ranked PVPer ever who didn't have a good amount of experience in raiding, would do like total and utter garbage in NiM level content at any gear/augment level. I personally would go as far as to say that these new augments are more necessary for NiM level Operations content than they are for Ranked PVP. Skill levels vary in PVP and some class/spec's have it better than others in the PVP environment. You can find 'bads' in PVP. There are no 'bad' bosses in NiM Operations, and they are always 7000X times more powerful than any player. In almost all cases, you stand no chance against them individually and without every member on that raid team being at the top of their game.

 

Some people do/have done both, and that is really the only perspective from which an unbiased appraisal can be made. After all, PVEers and PVPers haven't always demonstrated good sportsmanship to one another =p

 

Any pvp and especially Ranked difficulty relies on the opposing team.

If you throw a bunch of pve noobs into the ranked queue, they will get destroyed and the ranked guys will have an easy time of it.

If you put to AAA teams against each other, it will be much more difficult than any NiM ops. Remember Ops are scripted. So your hard boss will always do the same thing and all you need to do is learn how to beat him a few times and it becomes easier. But everytime you step into ranked against another team, it could be much harder than the one before because it’s not scripted. It could be easier too, but it’s never the same and I think that gives Ranked the potential to be much harder than NiM bosses.

The difference between ranked and NiM ops is NiM ops difficulty is the same every time. So I don’t think you can ever compare the two equally.

 

Edit - the only reason the Augments are even needed in pvp is because some other people will have them and others won’t. If they removed Augment stats in pvp, then they would never be needed. But while ever they are in the game, they are needed more in pvp than pve content because pve content never changes and you can get used to the same content even if your stats aren’t as high. Where as you can’t get used to the player of equal skill in pvp that has a lot more stats than you.

Edited by TrixxieTriss
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Any pvp and especially Ranked difficulty relies on the opposing team.

If you throw a bunch of pve noobs into the ranked queue, they will get destroyed and the ranked guys will have an easy time of it.

If you put to AAA teams against each other, it will be much more difficult than any NiM ops. Remember Ops are scripted. So your hard boss will always do the same thing and all you need to do is learn how to beat him a few times and it becomes easier. But everytime you step into ranked against another team, it could be much harder than the one before because it’s not scripted. It could be easier too, but it’s never the same and I think that gives Ranked the potential to be much harder than NiM bosses.

The difference between ranked and NiM ops is NiM ops difficulty is the same every time. So I don’t think you can ever compare the two equally.

 

Edit - the only reason the Augments are even needed in pvp is because some other people will have them and others won’t. If they removed Augment stats in pvp, then they would never be needed. But while ever they are in the game, they are needed more in pvp than pve content because pve content never changes and you can get used to the same content even if your stats aren’t as high. Where as you can’t get used to the player of equal skill in pvp that has a lot more stats than you.

 

Only in the context of the mats:

The problem with this is that in ranked you get paid for losing. So compared to ops where you have to "win" to get paid farming mats in ranked is faceroll.

 

High end rewards should not be given out for losing.

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That would only encourage win trading tbh. Why the hell would people play ranked if they had to win 10 matches to get any mats when they know the 2 teams in queue who have done ranked since season 1 would just farm them into oblivion. No mats for losing would encourage people to queue when no one is queuing with their guild and share the spoils. Currently it takes 4 losses/ 2 wins to get 1 mat and 20 losses / 10 wins to get 5 mats which I believe is fair.
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The mess that is group ranked is all on BW. They force people to it when they tie needed items to it. It forces people who wouldn't want to do ranked to do it, and there are going to be some that suck even though they try their best, and for a multitude of reasons, especially given the absolute cluster that is so called "class balance".
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Any pvp and especially Ranked difficulty relies on the opposing team.

If you throw a bunch of pve noobs into the ranked queue, they will get destroyed and the ranked guys will have an easy time of it.

If you put to AAA teams against each other, it will be much more difficult than any NiM ops. Remember Ops are scripted. So your hard boss will always do the same thing and all you need to do is learn how to beat him a few times and it becomes easier. But everytime you step into ranked against another team, it could be much harder than the one before because it’s not scripted. It could be easier too, but it’s never the same and I think that gives Ranked the potential to be much harder than NiM bosses.

The difference between ranked and NiM ops is NiM ops difficulty is the same every time. So I don’t think you can ever compare the two equally.

 

Edit - the only reason the Augments are even needed in pvp is because some other people will have them and others won’t. If they removed Augment stats in pvp, then they would never be needed. But while ever they are in the game, they are needed more in pvp than pve content because pve content never changes and you can get used to the same content even if your stats aren’t as high. Where as you can’t get used to the player of equal skill in pvp that has a lot more stats than you.

 

 

I get the scripted part, I do, you are fully aware of the general tactics a boss will employ, so that's a fair point. Even with that knowledge, it does not make that fight easy. PVPers do not have to put out the same kind of sustained DPS [and by sustained I mean continually, not as in a sustained damage spec] that is par for course and absolutely necessary for sucucess in dropping most NiM bosses. They simply have no need for that kind of DPS in PVP. There is no such thing as staying on a target for 5 minutes straight [or more] in PVP. It isn't an insult to PVPers, it is a different manner of play that they are simple unaccustomed to as a purely PVPer. You do not need formal rotations in PVP, they simply aren't practical, but when you are fighting a NiM boss, any appreciable deviation to an optimal rotation can lead to a wipe do to insufficient DPS. If you put a seasoned raider and a seasoned PVPer on a dummy to measure their optimal DPS output, 9 times out of 10 that raider is going to blow the PVPer's DPS away. But, if you threw that seasoned raider into ranked PVP and had him try to perform that optimal rotation without a mind to priority style rotations, he is going to fail miserably and almost certainly get chewed up by the enemy team.

 

My general point being that I think we have all seen quite a few hardcore PVPers express the view that PVPers are more skilled than Raiders and that even a raid inexperienced PVPer would have little difficutly against Operation bosses on any difficulty level, and that simply isn't so. Most PVPers of that type, would come in dead last for DPS output and would fail miserable, scripted or not. I say that as a former progression raider who has become solely a PVPer for the last year and a half or so.

 

That's why you will see more poeple trying to get their mats from Ranked PVP than you will from NiM Operations. They stand a chance of getting them from Ranked PVP, they stand no chance of getting them from NiM Operations. No progression team is going to take a novice raider in NiM Operations because they will just cause the group to either outright wipe or need to be of a such a caliber as to be able to carry the novice raider [AKA solely Ranked PVPer or non-raider/novice PVEer], and most groups, unless they are friends in question, aren't going to be willing to do that. And good luck with NiM pug groups, you might as well just delete 75000 credits that you would have ended up spending in repair costs and save yourself the time spent from repeated wipes.

I can't say I share your opinion of any ranked content being even of equal difficulty to many NiM boss fights. You could hand pick the 8 people from among the best of the best Ranked PVPers of all time who were not raid experience, having read the walk thrus so they know what to expect, they would fail miserably, they wouldn't even come close. - - The thing about NiM, one mistake, by just one person, just one time, can cause the entire group to wipe. NiM has quite a few insta-kill mechanics. That's what makes them so difficult. That's why even seasoned Raiders could not bring Revan down in HM even after months of trying and why that clear is still held in high regard even after years.

 

I do agree with you on the augments, the only reason you need them in PVP is because the people you are fighting are going to have them. Spot on.

Edited by WayOfTheWarriorx
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NiM Operations are more difficult than Ranked PVP and require a higher level of skill. It's night and day. I'm sure some hardcore PVPers will disagree heh. I'd have to contend that even the best in Ranked who did not have significant HM/NiM experience would not be up to the challenge of most NiM level Operations.

 

A great deal of NiM Operation content could be done without gear of a greater rating of 224, but among those people who could meet the challenges and demands of NiM Operations successfully while under such conditions, they would comprise perhaps 5-10% at most of the current player base .

 

I was a progression raider almost exclusively until about 6 months prior to 5.0 dropping and only made the total switch from raider to PVPer when 5.0 hit. When I started to get into PVP I already head a good deal of experience in NiM level content and I couldn't have possibly sucked more in PVP, so it does cut both ways to a degree. They both require levels of skill, but they are very different skills needed for each style of play.

 

While your statement ["Afaik all PvE content can be completed without anything from 2.6."] is technically accurate, although not to the extent that gear from 2.6 era would be sufficient for standing a chance at NiM clears, those capable of getting clears in NiM Boss fights with lesser gear [224+] are rare in the extreme.

 

I would say with a fair amount certainty that even the best Ranked PVPer ever who didn't have a good amount of experience in raiding, would do like total and utter garbage in NiM level content at any gear/augment level. I personally would go as far as to say that these new augments are more necessary for NiM level Operations content than they are for Ranked PVP. Skill levels vary in PVP and some class/spec's have it better than others in the PVP environment. You can find 'bads' in PVP. There are no 'bad' bosses in NiM Operations, and they are always 7000X times more powerful than any player. In almost all cases, you stand no chance against them individually and without every member on that raid team being at the top of their game.

 

Some people do/have done both, and that is really the only perspective from which an unbiased appraisal can be made. After all, PVEers and PVPers haven't always demonstrated good sportsmanship to one another =p

 

Almost every MMO I've played that had a good pvp population the pvpers were clearing the harder pve content faster than the dedicated pver's. Even in this game in the early days before everyone fled the game and the game actually had a healthy amount of pvp guilds (before the stripping of ranked 8v8), all the nightmare raids were cleared first by dedicated pvp guilds.

Edited by Raansu
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That would only encourage win trading tbh. Why the hell would people play ranked if they had to win 10 matches to get any mats when they know the 2 teams in queue who have done ranked since season 1 would just farm them into oblivion. No mats for losing would encourage people to queue when no one is queuing with their guild and share the spoils. Currently it takes 4 losses/ 2 wins to get 1 mat and 20 losses / 10 wins to get 5 mats which I believe is fair.

 

First of all quoting weekly is pointless, it gets done as a matter of course if you are doing your dailies.

 

You would have to win 2x a day for 5 days and that would net you 5 dailies and the weekly, 10 mats if my math is correct. Anyone who is honestly trying can win 2x a day.

 

And if they are not trying, F um :D

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Almost every MMO I've played that had a good pvp population the pvpers were clearing the harder pve content faster than the dedicated pver's. Even in this game in the early days before everyone fled the game and the game actually had a healthy amount of pvp guilds (before the stripping of ranked 8v8), all the nightmare raids were cleared first by dedicated pvp guilds.

 

Sorry, I'm not buying that for a second. If those players, like I stated, didn't have a good amount of raiding experience, no chance.

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Almost every MMO I've played that had a good pvp population the pvpers were clearing the harder pve content faster than the dedicated pver's.

 

From my experience the most skilled players, in this game at least, tend to do both, but taking players that do both out, this is a false statement.

 

Even in this game in the early days before everyone fled the game and the game actually had a healthy amount of pvp guilds (before the stripping of ranked 8v8), all the nightmare raids were cleared first by dedicated pvp guilds.

 

This is just absolute nonsense that isn't true.

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Sorry, I'm not buying that for a second. If those players, like I stated, didn't have a good amount of raiding experience, no chance.

 

Raiding isn't exactly hard. A static boss that does the same thing no matter what is pretty easy for a pvper. I know pure pvers like the pretend their content is hard, but it really isn't.

 

This is just absolute nonsense that isn't true.

 

You can believe what you want, but it doesnt change the fact that in the early days on swtor, pvp guilds were clearing raids before anyone else because a mix of rakata gear with pvp gear was better than full pvp gear at the time.

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From my experience the most skilled players, in this game at least, tend to do both, but taking players that do both out, this is a false statement..

 

Wait, so you are saying that PvPers who DO NOT DO BOTH (PvP and PvE) don't clear PvE content?

 

Earth shattering :)

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Raiding isn't exactly hard. A static boss that does the same thing no matter what is pretty easy for a pvper. I know pure pvers like the pretend their content is hard, but it really isn't.

 

 

 

You can believe what you want, but it doesnt change the fact that in the early days on swtor, pvp guilds were clearing raids before anyone else because a mix of rakata gear with pvp gear was better than full pvp gear at the time.

 

 

to be blunt, in the early part of the game the only raids were EV/KP, and EC later in the year, EV/KP are and always has been easy. So your comment seems irrelevant. Not to mention there is no proof for or against PvP guilds being the 1st to clear them.

 

It is possible they were among the 1st, but no proof of it one way or the other. I don't remember any world's first site for this game like WoW has.

Edited by Toraak
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to be blunt, in the early part of the game the only raids were EV/KP, and EC later in the year, EV/KP are and always has been easy. So your comment seems irrelevant. Not to mention there is no proof for or against PvP guilds being the 1st to clear them.

 

It is possible they were among the 1st, but no proof of it one way or the other. I don't remember any world's first site for this game like WoW has.

 

All you have to do for a raid boss is imitate a YouTube video. :D

 

For PvP you have to know 24 unique builds and be able to counter any of those at any second.

 

PvP is the final stage in player progression.

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I love how this thread turned into a PVP vs PVE thing. I actually read it to see what hardcore grouped ranked PVPers thought about this new thing with lots of randoms in queue. On a hand you get a lot more matches. On the other hand you get a lot more boring matches. I was wondering how one thing balanced out the other.

 

Also please stop with this "PVE is harder", "No, PVP is harder". To be honest who cares. People do what they enjoy. Good players can be good both in PVE and PVP. You see some of the top PVE players in the top of the ranked leaderboards, you see some of the top PVP players clearing NiM ops (or used to see at least, when people cared more about operations cause it wasn't old content). In both situations you can always work at becoming better.

Edited by Eloi_BG
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I love how this thread turned into a PVP vs PVE thing. I actually read it to see what hardcore grouped ranked PVPers thought about this new thing with lots of randoms in queue. On a hand you get a lot more matches. On the other hand you get a lot more boring matches. I was wondering how one thing balanced out the other.

....

 

Just a few more augments and I will let you know ;)

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I love how this thread turned into a PVP vs PVE thing. I actually read it to see what hardcore grouped ranked PVPers thought about this new thing with lots of randoms in queue. On a hand you get a lot more matches. On the other hand you get a lot more boring matches. I was wondering how one thing balanced out the other.

 

Also please stop with this "PVE is harder", "No, PVP is harder". To be honest who cares. People do what they enjoy. Good players can be good both in PVE and PVP. You see some of the top PVE players in the top of the ranked leaderboards, you see some of the top PVP players clearing NiM ops (or used to see at least, when people cared more about operations cause it wasn't old content). In both situations you can always work at becoming better.

 

What im curious about is the leaderboards, mainly the group ranked. I wonder what they will do with the tiers this season as it seems everyone used every possible alt for group ranked. Naturally the PVPers will have won even on their PTs in group ranked so there will be many ppl qualifying for Silver, if not Gold tier.

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I was thinking more along the line of "OP wants ranked to die quickly and not pop any more." Cause the people who play ranked "just because" are almost as rare as unicorns. It's almost like... winner-take-all isn't very inviting if you don't win. Wonder why that is?

 

Only the mats are proposed to be winner take all.

 

Reading comprehension is your friend.

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