It often comes up in discussions about orange gear that it works well because you can, in theory, acquire any look you like, provided that you "work hard enough to achieve it." This, to me, sounds ridiculous. This is a game, and while it's perfectly justifiable, even expected that plenty of rewards would take a certain amount of work to achieve, appearance management should not be one of them.

Sure, gaining new appearances can and should take some effort, I am NOT talking about a system that would allow you to pick any level 50 armor you want at level 1, or that would allow a Trooper to run around in Sage robes without consequences, I'm just talking about a very basic appearance management system that does not require you to jump through all sorts of hoops just to retain an appearance that you'd already acquired, while also progressing your stats.

This should not be difficult.

You should not have to spend more money to do this. You should not need to have any specific crafting skills involved. It should not take more than one player, you should not need to remove and replace mods, it should just happen. A player should be able to effortlessly flip through any costume pieces that he's acquired over his career, and choose the one he likes best at the moment. If, five minutes later, he decides to try on something else, he should be able to do so, and there should not be a cost involved, and he should be able to do so again and again and again without penalty.

Now if a system like that were implemented, there would be a great demand for armor of all types, not just orange ones, because ANY armor could grant the appearance that you like, and being able to shift through them easily would make variety a much more desirable trait than in the current model where you need to spend thousands of credits swapping mods around even IF you have orange versions of both pieces. It would also make armors of all types desirable because you could retain the stats of them regardless of their appearance, so armors that have good stats for your level, but that clash with the rest of your gear, or just look silly in and of themselves, you can throw on anyways, and use the appearance management system to ignore their silly appearance.

Plenty of games do this already, and it works just fine. SWtOR do this too. Let's stop making silly claims about how it's a good thing that appearance control is difficult, or that having better appearance controls would allow Sages to run around in Trooper armor (it wouldn't have to), let's just work together to get this done.

I think the hardest part of it is paying to rip out your old mods when you find something better than what you're wearing now, at least while you're leveling. I'm kinda lucky that I found my smuggler jacket when I did, since it wasn't as expensive to rip out the old stuff.

I still catch some flak, though. Apparently it's a no-no to want to look like a regular Joe Schmoe as a Jedi, and I should want to look like a Space Monk getting ready for his morning Gregorian chants.

I can't agree here.

You want everyone, regardless of level or skill or time invested, to have any set of gear in the game?

It should require effort. I'm currently soloing black talon to get the moddable heavy sith armor for my compaion (cloak and hood, awesome!). I have ran it 6 times, and no drop yet. I know when it finally drops, it will be really worth it

Everything in the game needs some kind of effort. Things that are handed out completely lose their value.

After reading the OP's post, I've come to a conclusion.

I've played many games over my short gaming life, and have seen the pros and cons of different gear systems. In some games:

You have a basic costume that is worn all the time, regardless of items equipped to alter your stats.

You have a very gear driven system, where what you are wearing is shown on your avatar at all times without the option of altering it to look like something different.

You have a gear driven system but also have an Appearance system, which allows you to wear an alternate costume by equipping "Old" or "Inferior" armor pieces just for the graphical side of them, where they don't effect stats.

BioWare has attempted to do something a little different here and give us the option of either keeping up with the gear grind, as in buying all the new armor pieces in a set to maintain the "rightness" of our armor. Or you can track down a good looking Orange armor piece to mod out and keep its appearance while still being on-par with wearing dropped/crafted armor. I agree that sometimes the prices of ripping out mods is rediculous, but its free to swap in new pieces as you will. I don't need a library of different armor pieces just for the graphical differences, as it isn't realistic that I should be able to flip through 500 different chest graphics to find the one I like, while maintaining the same stats I do now. I hear the cries already: "This is a game, why do we care about Realism?" I care about realism to the point that as I level up, the armor I wear gets better looking. It only makes sense that the top-level crafted armor for Troopers starts getting better looking, more heavily armored, more bits and bobs on it. If I want to have a less-heavily-armored appearance, I can spend a little money every level and keep my old guard armor from a lucky FP run where I got all the trooper drops, looking good.

You want everyone, regardless of level or skill or time invested, to have any set of gear in the game?

No. Someone wasn't reading.

Everything in the game needs some kind of effort. Things that are handed out completely lose their value.

But not everything in the game deserves to have a value to it. It's like if you go to a restaurant, you expect that the meal itself will cost money, you expect that a nice drink will cost money. You expect that desert will cost money, but just getting water should be free, they should bring some bread to the table for free, using the bathroom should be free, etc. If they attach a price to every single thing, including a fee just to have a chair at the table, then that seems excessive.

Some things should have a cost associated, being able to change your appearance within the options you already have access to should not be one of those.

I don't need a library of different armor pieces just for the graphical differences, as it isn't realistic that I should be able to flip through 500 different chest graphics to find the one I like, while maintaining the same stats I do now. I hear the cries already: "This is a game, why do we care about Realism?" I care about realism to the point that as I level up, the armor I wear gets better looking. It only makes sense that the top-level crafted armor for Troopers starts getting better looking, more heavily armored, more bits and bobs on it. If I want to have a less-heavily-armored appearance, I can spend a little money every level and keep my old guard armor from a lucky FP run where I got all the trooper drops, looking good.

"Realism" is far out the door already. My character has full helmet stats, even though she never wears a helmet. My character has the stats of full plate leggings, even though her leggings are just as skintight as cloth. And don't forget that this is Star Wars, a universe in which level 50 Obiwan didn't wear anything bulkier or more "fabulous" than level 1 Obiwan. Arguments of "realism" are entirely out of place in this game when it comes to matching appearance to performance. Yes, as you level up you earn the right to wear fancier and more "impressive" types of gear, to show off your status, but there's no reason why you should have to wear this fancier gear if you prefer to to otherwise, and there's no practical benefit to making it more difficult to not wear these new looks.

This is all just your opinion and your viewpoint.

You believe that looking however you want should be effortless, but that's just not how most "gear chaser" games work (most MMO's, games like diablo, etc.). It takes effort to look a certain way. It would be one thing if specific gear models were restricted to certain level ranges, in which case it would be detrimental to wear them at a much higher level.

But this is not the case, as Bioware has implemented a system of upgradeable gear where you can find armor that looks a certain way, and continue using it until max level. You can even go back to different planets or flashpoints and find any gear you missed.

If anything, this system is more sophisticated than in other similar games. It may not be exactly what you want, but that's life.

Personally, I think the system's fine. It requires effort to perfectly tailor your appearance, while not restricting you to weaker gear at higher levels. Best of both worlds. Its not easy, but it gives players plenty of freedom.

I don't think half the responders even read what you wrote, as their responses show.

He doesn't want everyone to have whatever they want. He wants them to have access to everything they've ever EARNED.

FOR EXAMPLE: I want my starter robes to have the stats off the wonder space wizard robes of blackest night that I looted off the giant space robot on that space station in space over there.

Look in to LOTRO's method if you have not. You have an appearance tab, how you want to look, and you have a tab for what you are actually wearing. Everyone wins. This should be in every MMO.

I do like your idea, though neither it nor the one I mentioned will probably ever come to pass.

But this is not the case, as Bioware has implemented a system of upgradeable gear where you can find armor that looks a certain way, and continue using it until max level. You can even go back to different planets or flashpoints and find any gear you missed.

If anything, this system is more sophisticated than in other similar games. It may not be exactly what you want, but that's life.

Bioware's system allows for more flexibility than some much older games, but it's woefully behind the times compared to others. It's basically like touting a car company for not strictly adhering to Ford's :any color you want, so long as it's black" philosophy in 2011.

Yes, you can theoretically pick up older looks, but in a way that requires FAR more hassle than such a benefit DESERVES.

 

Personally, I think the system's fine. It requires effort to perfectly tailor your appearance, while not restricting you to weaker gear at higher levels. Best of both worlds. Its not easy, but it gives players plenty of freedom.

That presumes that each of those worlds has a "best" to have. But no, there is nothing good about having hassles involved in character customization, so all it is would be one good world, which is watered down by the worst the other world has to offer, making them both worse for having involved that second world at all.

In other words folks, he's asking for something akin to WoW's transmogrification.

Ideally something more akin to DCUO's costume system, although with far fewer options at character creation. I'd even be fine with no more options at character creation, I just want freedom of choice within the appearances I've already accumulated. The average character, even by level 10, has acquired around 3-5 different tops and 3-5 different pants, and yet every level 10 character will be wearing one of 1-3 possible looks in either of those slots, either the commendation piece, the Heroic reward, or, if they're complete slackers, the highest tier story quest reward in that slot. There is no choice involved, except the choice to forgo ideal stats, only one option will give you the best possible stats. Instead, you should be able to, through no more effort than clicking a button a couple of times, wear ANY of those several pieces you'd accumulated, while retaining the stats of the very strongest piece you've accumulated.

There is no justification for it to be anything otherwise, beyond that "this is how they did it."

i liked rifts system. you had the gear equipped on your character it could be any compatible class.

and you had a wardrobe with a few sets. wardrobe could overwrite the visual on the equipment slot. each set could be hotswapped. or wardrobe disabled entirely.

what that allowed was my lvl 50 character who had a full set of 4 transplanar armour items. could craft and equip the matching garbage armour models to make a full set of copper armour so i didn't have a goodwill clown in mismatched armour.

or to quote something i said in guildchat oneday. "why is the intelligence score of female pants inversely proportional to the length of the pants?"

troopers will unanimously agree to such a system. i saw my whole team assembled in a cutscene and they looked like the power rangers. one was green. one was blue. there was a red guy my chick was in yellow and elara looked like a jedi. havoc squad should rename themselves the rainbow warriors.

I'm a fan of costume sets in games where the gear selection is not what I desire. My personal preference in this game is I like most the styles (early trooper gear could use a lift...troopers don't wear white spandex tyvm.

in relation to the current system, Im okay with cost. What I would like to have is a little more availability. more options early on especially. I can see the logic behind wanting it to be an earned thing, but like it was said before, risk=rewards issue...the difficulty(challenge) is too high for what your getting. I'm okay with some form of effort, but it shouldn't be any worse then crafting a blue, as an example.

troopers will unanimously agree to such a system. i saw my whole team assembled in a cutscene and they looked like the power rangers. one was green. one was blue. there was a red guy my chick was in yellow and elara looked like a jedi.

At least yours were individually coordinated. I have a screenshot of my Elara wearing all the best pieces I had available at the time, which meant that she had a yellow helmet, a blue chest, green pants, and red boots.

the thing you are missing is that you should only look like the cloths you are wearing,

And the thing that you are missing is that this is completely unnecessary. There's absolutely no reason why we should have to look like what we're wearing. We should look like the clothing we'd like to look like we're wearing, regardless of the stats of the gear we actually have equipped. This is how it works in many other games, like the afore mentioned DCUO, in which practically every level 30 is wearing either full or partial "T1" or "T2" armor, and yet almost none of them have more than a piece or two of it actively visible on their character, with the majority of their visible slots consisting of lower tier gear.

Your argument isn't even internally consistent within the game world, as you can already turn off helmet display, so that my character who runs around without a helmet on still has full helmet stats, and also if one insists that stats must relate to appearance, then it becomes ridiculous to believe that it's possible to "upgrade" a set of spandex pants to have the same armor rating as bulky plate armor, and yet that is exactly what is already possible within the orange armor system.

There is no logical argument that justifies the current system from any sort of "realism" perspective.

BW has made it easy for you to maintain the look you want if you want to have a wardrobe then you need to put the work into maintaining it.

Which, if you'll notice, is the central thesis of this thread, ahem. . . Character Appearance should not require effort .

At least yours were individually coordinated. I have a screenshot of my Elara wearing all the best pieces I had available at the time, which meant that she had a yellow helmet, a blue chest, green pants, and red boots.

You'll have to forgive the reference, but that reminds me of my characters in WoW shortly after I got my first greens way back in BC O.o

I can't agree here.

 

You want everyone, regardless of level or skill or time invested, to have any set of gear in the game?

yeah, oh wait, except you still have to find/earn the gear in game and be able to wear it.

The orange customization system is horrible for customizing your appearance and only average for customizing your equipments stats.

-No set bonus

-No augment slots

-No PvP bonus

-Extremely limited (I think bio flat out lied about every green item having an orange compliment).

If you want to be sub par, sure stick with orange gear.

For me, getting and maintaining my appearance is just more game content to me - a sort of extra set of quests with rewards that suit me 100%, and with no map markers telling me exactly how to do. I probably enjoy gear-hunting as much (or even more) than other game content.

If an appearance tab is going to be implemented (which I hope not), I would prefer that they went all the way - a system that lets everyone pick appearance items freely from all armor pieces in the game, including endgame operations loot. The <i>only</i> limit would be that your character must have the relevant skill ("Heavy Armor" etc).

After all, if your appearance is not what you are wearing, then there really is no point connecting the two at all. Why half *** it, when it can be truly effortless?

For me, getting and maintaining my appearance is just more game content to me - a sort of extra set of quests with rewards that suit me 100%, and with no map markers telling me exactly how to do. I probably enjoy gear-hunting as much (or even more) than other game content.

 

If an appearance tab is going to be implemented (which I hope not), I would prefer that they went all the way - a system that lets everyone pick appearance items freely from all armor pieces in the game, including endgame operations loot. The <i>only</i> limit would be that your character must have the relevant skill ("Heavy Armor" etc).

 

After all, if your appearance is not what you are wearing, then there really is no point connecting the two at all. Why half *** it, when it can be truly effortless?

Maybe allow players to create a database by equipping armor first but don't just give everyone the ability to pick any model in game.

By having to collect the armor model or actually wear it on an appearance tab, you are helping the economy in multiple ways.

No PvP bonus

No augment slot

Maybe allow players to create a database by equipping armor first but don't just give everyone the ability to pick any model in game.

Why not? I'm playing the devils advocate here (I don't want an appearance tab) but if you are going to have it why place restrictions on it? Why make it take effort to get the appearance you want?

It often comes up in discussions about orange gear that it works well because you can, in theory, acquire any look you like, provided that you "work hard enough to achieve it." .

no it shouldnt.

'achievement' is a certain preference in gameplay. not everyone's taste fit the same.

there is no mandatory rule that says there should be 'effort' and 'achievement' in games. no, there isnt. otherwise there wouldnt be entire game genres ranging from simulation to sandboxes.

'effort/achievement' is just the preference of a certain small demographic in progressive hardcore mmo gaming. namely the pinnacle of this is wow. actually everquest was much more hardcore in that regard, but for some reason, these 'effort' people are not preferring to play it. i wonder why. maybe it requires too much 'effort' ...

no it shouldnt.

 

'achievement' is a certain preference in gameplay. not everyone's taste fit the same.

 

there is no mandatory rule that says there should be 'effort' and 'achievement' in games. no, there isnt. otherwise there wouldnt be entire game genres ranging from simulation to sandboxes.

 

'effort/achievement' is just the preference of a certain small demographic in progressive hardcore mmo gaming. namely the pinnacle of this is wow. actually everquest was much more hardcore in that regard, but for some reason, these 'effort' people are not preferring to play it. i wonder why. maybe it requires too much 'effort' ...

You are of course right, we should all be level 50, have all companions, a dozen speeders and all titles and gear in the game as soon as we log in. I mean who want to put in 'effort' in a game? The tiny hardcore MMO demographic that wants reward to require effort should go play some kind of MMO instead of SWTOR.

I think I like this system. I liked LOTRO's appearance system, but to make it work for PvP, it was just disabled there (people like to know what they are fighting). Here with PvP able to happen in many places, that isn't an option. So you are left with either having armour that protects as it looks, or not. They've chosen the former, and this seems to work.

What I really want is someone to put together a good armour appearance site, so I can see what everything looks like! Unfortunately I don't have the time to do that for this as well as LOTRO.

At least yours were individually coordinated. I have a screenshot of my Elara wearing all the best pieces I had available at the time, which meant that she had a yellow helmet, a blue chest, green pants, and red boots.

Ohh! Lucky Charms armor! I'll bet she was magically delicious!!