It's Delphi, Pythia would inhale the toxic fumes while being consulted not drink the water - that was a different ritual for another thing) and all these are completely off topic.

Schooled.

Surely you jest in suggesting that flurm posters are self-righteous and hyperbolic. The story is as old as MMOs in that you cannot believe a very high percentage of what gets posted here. Players are not satisfied unless they feel the development team flies them out to their headquarters and implements every single detail to their personal satisfaction.

I took a long year + off from this game. The Star Wars bug bit me with the announcement of Episode 7 in production and I poked my head in to see what was happening. I am a subscriber and I enjoy the cartel market. I don't spend RL money but I make enough credits in game to afford most things I want from the market on the GTN, via players who are willing to spend the money.

And Strongholds? I've played them on the PTS and am incredibly impressed. So from my personal perspective, the game is great and enjoyable. My wife and I founded a guild on the Republic side this morning, in fact and intend to stick around as long as real likfe commitments permit.

According to you. The fleet count seems to hover at 170+ players per instance and hasn't varied in three years. That BW had "too many servers" at one time does not mean "the game was dying." It means they had "too many servers." That's an example of taking a factoid and blowing it up into a major event. It's like predicting who will win the Super Bowl based on the results of the first exhibition game. (The Seahawks lost.) These folks who say, "Sorry, but you are wrong. The game was in very bad shape." are not showing any evidence. It's just part of their overall fantasy of belief taken from reading tea leaves, consulting the Oracle at Delphi (which said, "SW will undergo changes."), or paying Madam Zolar at the State Fair, who told them they had very pretty eyes.

 

You'll notice that even a few months ago the "game is dying" refrain was running strong. Now that it is, as I said, 'excruciatingly obvious' that is not the case, the same folks say, "Well, the game WAS dying, so I'm still right." What's driving this? The need to be right in the face of contrary evidence. The only way to pull it off is to claim they were right, but "conditions have changed." What? Makeb? The despised Cartel Market? F2P? What, you despise a ship because it adjusts its course? It would seem a prudent thing to do.

 

It doesn't really matter of "people have left the game." People SHOULD leave the game and leave it more often. Some people deserve Wildstar more than others, and it would be best for all concerned if they hung out there rather than here. It's right up their alley because, you know, "Wildstar is dying." The same people who complain that SW is dying are the ones who complain about lag in the game and fail to notice the contradiction.

too many servers seems about right, they opened up a bunch of servers after launch, which was a bad decision because everyone knew the launch population wouldn't be the stable population.

SW:TOR was so hyped by the internet everyone and their dog was trying it

too many servers seems about right, they opened up a bunch of servers after launch, which was a bad decision because everyone knew the launch population wouldn't be the stable population.

 

SW:TOR was so hyped by the internet everyone and their dog was trying it

Yes but even a year in with dozens of servers, Wow still had queues at peak hours. The launch was a debacle. Had SWTOR launched under those conditions, players would have fled even faster. Indeed, they made too many to begin with and because of outside RL commitments, I wasn't around for the big merger and consequently lost alot of my character's names and was plenty upset by that but I digress....

They overshot the mark but they didn't want people to be stuck in a queue and say "screw this, going to log into Wow instead"

Actually, what really happened is that the game was never close to dying. They never gave out numbers. It's just that players, especially forum members, figured they were experts on game design, programming, mathematics, business development, and economics plus had the unique ability to discern the state of the game from cryptic phrases appearing in EA reports to investors or some obscure game zine that had a writer with a similar bent of believing in his ability to interpret the runes and see the future without access to any real facts.

 

Then it became excruciatingly obvious to even detractors that the game was actually doing well with more level-headed players pointing out the few observable statistics they were able to glean from the press, especially those who had no bone to pick with EA or BW and were just reporting the facts. The game itself has changed very little since launch, and many of the changes, e.g. The Cartel Market, were met with universal disdain by all the economics experts predicting dire ruin and lamenting "credit sinks." How dare they? But the game just kept rumbling along and now those claims of "dying off" are themselves dying off as the refrain is getting pretty frayed around the edges.

 

The whole issue, though perhaps exacerbated by EA's tight-lipped refusal to divulge company confidential information (something not mandated nor performed by many companies worldwide anyway), is the result ov overactive imaginations and doomsday prophecies of people already proven to immerse themselves in a complete fantasy world anyway.

Spot on. The game is basically the same with some QoL improvements and more content of course. Their only real blunder IMO was opening too many servers at launch. Which pretty much every MMO has done, just look at Wildstar.

Edit: Oh yea and they also made that other classic MMO blunder. They launched about 6 months too early. Which was obvious when you look at the fact they had KP in place but you could only do the first boss.

Is SWTOR the only game that was on the verge of dying and begun getting better till we reached the point when today SWTOR is in the top 5 most played subscription based games and has a really stable community?Is SWTOR the only mmo one of the only mmo's who got better and got back it's player base?

it cant be on that list, SWTOR has a free to play option its a free to play mmo not a purely sub based MMO. how many of those players are free to play/credit selling bots?

it cant be on that list, SWTOR has a free to play option its a free to play mmo not a purely sub based MMO. how many of those players are free to play/credit selling bots?

Sub numbers don't matter in a F2P hybrid. Quarterly revenue numbers are what matter.

Sub numbers don't matter in a F2P hybrid. Quarterly revenue numbers are what matter.

Revenue was not mentioned in the OP, OP stated it was one of the most played sub based MMO's its not a sub based MMO its a free to play MMO, games like World of Warcraft are sub based.

Revenue was not mentioned in the OP, OP stated it was one of the most played sub based MMO's its not a sub based MMO its a free to play MMO, games like World of Warcraft are sub based.

Yeah, TOR is the #2 MMO in the west.

Yeah, TOR is the #2 MMO in the west.

again that doesn't mean anything with the amount of players that don't pay a dime/the amount of credit bots that don't pay a dime. if the game was as popular as you think it wouldn't need a free to play model at all.

Revenue was not mentioned in the OP, OP stated it was one of the most played sub based MMO's its not a sub based MMO its a free to play MMO, games like World of Warcraft are sub based.

WoW also has a f2p option. And a cash shop.

By number of subscribers SWTOR is very much up there.

again that doesn't mean anything with the amount of players that don't pay a dime/the amount of credit bots that don't pay a dime. if the game was as popular as you think it wouldn't need a free to play model at all.

#2 doesn't mean anything? lol

You're adorable.

again that doesn't mean anything with the amount of players that don't pay a dime/the amount of credit bots that don't pay a dime. if the game was as popular as you think it wouldn't need a free to play model at all.

Gotta love the little haters shaking their little fists at the game and anything resembling an undeniable fact that the game is doing well:

"nahaa but, but, this game is still gonna die, just you wait you, just you wait!"

So cute

Eve online almost died in the early days. Much less support than swtor. It is an older game than wow and is sub based.

But agreed, swtor has improved a great deal. Very enjoyable.

again that doesn't mean anything with the amount of players that don't pay a dime/the amount of credit bots that don't pay a dime. if the game was as popular as you think it wouldn't need a free to play model at all.

And you sub just so you can troll the forums? What is with some of you, no matter what info comes out you desperate haters try to spin it into crazy nonsense. It doesn't matter what anyone says here to you the only people playing Swtor are bots..../facepalm.....just go spend your time on something you enjoy....some of these haters are getting pathetic.

Haters gonna hate.

Despite the evidence to the contrary on whether or not the game is dying (4th most revenue producing MMO last year, Million + accounts logging in each month (no major change from previous years, even with players leaving, new are replacing them)

The sky is always falling... i find this amusing.

From what I've heard, Rift isn't faring too hot. It may be profitable, but its subscription/player numbers are a fraction of even SWTOR's, and I've heard (though can't confirm personally) that most of the servers feel "dead" in terms of folks online at any given time.

Rift is popular because of it's excellent F2P system. But that's also a thorn in its side.

It shows the very ugly truth that if the developers are generous when it comes to restrictions, the average player is going to give them nothing in return while still playing the hell out of their game.

SWTOR is one of the few that managed to turn its fortunes around, but not the only one.

DDO originally launched as a sub only game too, and then performed so poorly that the devs took it offline for a few months and rebooted it as a F2P game. It was the pioneer of the F2P's on the western market and made some serious money. (It's also still alive today, though I haven't played it in years now)

Is SWTOR the only game that was on the verge of dying and begun getting better till we reached the point when today SWTOR is in the top 5 most played subscription based games and has a really stable community?Is SWTOR the only mmo one of the only mmo's who got better and got back it's player base?

Please, everyone knows every MMO is on the verge of dying the moment it enters open beta.

According to you. The fleet count seems to hover at 170+ players per instance and hasn't varied in three years. That BW had "too many servers" at one time does not mean "the game was dying." It means they had "too many servers." That's an example of taking a factoid and blowing it up into a major event. It's like predicting who will win the Super Bowl based on the results of the first exhibition game. (The Seahawks lost.) These folks who say, "Sorry, but you are wrong. The game was in very bad shape." are not showing any evidence. It's just part of their overall fantasy of belief taken from reading tea leaves, consulting the Oracle at Delphi (which said, "SW will undergo changes."), or paying Madam Zolar at the State Fair, who told them they had very pretty eyes.

 

I think you're deluding yourself pretty badly.

In the end, only BioWare/EA know their 100% accurate sub levels. The activity per server is what they use to determine the number of servers they need. For a few months after launch, servers were lively and filled with that initial rush of excitement. That didn't last even a year before most servers started to resemble ghost towns.

Server reductions - especially on the level TOR endured - is a pretty clear indicator of activity, even to those with the most rose-colored glasses you can find. I departed, myself, along with the mass exodus that took place mid 2012 (or thereabouts). I return a year later to find only a fraction of the original servers still existing. Sorry - but you're -seriously- deluded if you are trying to convince anyone that this means the game has 'always been fine'. That's a crock.

As I've returned, I see the improvements and am very impressed. The world still doesn't feel near as 'busy' as it used to at launch - but there is a lot more to do now, a lot more places for people to spread out, so I understand that could be the reason why so many zones feel empty.

Regardless, the important thing is that the game does seem to be doing well. There's been a lot of improvements, with more coming. I know a few friends who will come back thanks to player housing. Dunno if they will stay, but we will see. I can say my second trip into TOR has been a blast so far, and I am easily having as much fun as I did at launch.

I am glad to see that it seems most of the games defenders that were in denial early on seem to finally accept that the game did not do very well before the launch of the Market/F2P. And yes, I believe the game is doing MUCH better since, and has improved immensely since then.

That does not mean I think every choice made by the new team has been good for the game, and they have made their own mistakes IMO. But overall their performance is a HUGE improvement over the original dev team.

I have been with this game since beta and seen a lot. Game is doing ok BUT there is one hidden marketing thing many dont see. Yes game went to F2P to actually grow and earn money in long run. The reason why we have now few servers and a lot people is that many of them are f2p players or subs ran out.

The amount of people are not the way to conclude how game is doing. It is rather how many people are are spending real money on Cartel market. Thats where most of profit comes nowdays. We dont have figures about that but it is certainly better than it was back in 2012/03 where we had 2 major server merges. As long there are many people who are buying cartel coins game will do fine.