Some of them do make quite a bit of difference. Most don't.

 

Sure, they may not massively impact you a few levels later, but they certainly impact how the game plays out. If you're playing the game for the moment, and not just looking at quests as stepping stones on the road to 50, a lot of them actually matter quite a bit.

I guess I must have missed those impactful decisions then

aww bless, he thinks decisions matter?

Yes I do belive that it does. Why? well when I play my BH, then well how do I define me well through the actions I do.

I like I can choose what way I can kill a story person or if I really whant to kill him.

a little from the BH quest simplified where I liked it.

1 Torture him

2 plain kill him

3 let him go

This kind of thing i really like. That defines my character of how I perceive him. There are also bigger thing but I like stuff like that.

Though you make a condescending remark, I aint hurt by it, I know that all that play isent like me and like different thing.

So again for me it is nice a great. You might not like it and maby it isent a game for you.

So, WoWs end-game has been going on for the last 8 years?

WoW's raids, where less than 6% of the player base (Blizzards numbers -- not mine) ever see it, is end game?

Changing your toons play-style with every patch is end-game?

 

The only "true" end-game that any game can have is PvP. I will let you figure that statement out, as it would take a bit to explain it fully.

 

Your statement of End-Game IS the game is why MMOs of today fail. This paradigm was created by Blizzard, who because of their paradigm now has to spend months upon months and spend a huge budget in creating so called end-game content every two months. After all that time and money they sit back and watch their "end-game" players burn through it in 2 weeks then head to the forum and scream for more.

 

You have missed the point of the topic dear Sir. This Paradigm NEEDS to be broken or we will all be stuck playing WoW forever. BW took a chance with SWTOR. They have decided to attack that paradigm.

 

I for one believe they succeeded.

By definition. End-Game is everything you do once you've completed all the basic content. What you do next depends on person to person, but most MMO's generally allow people to continue playing doing the following things.

*PvP

*Artificially difficult group encounters (Raiding)

*Level all the other classes

*Grind better gear through reputation/tokens/low droprates etc

Or in a more general sense, End-game is usually about being able to continue to improve your character by repeating the old content.

In the case of World of Warcraft, they alter how your character works every few months on purpose, since they know that people get bored doing the same thing over and over they change things to make them a bit more fresh.

Yes I do belive that it does. Why? well when I play my BH, then well how do I define me well through the actions I do.

 

I like I can choose what way I can kill a story person or if I really whant to kill him.

a little from the BH quest simplified where I liked it.

 

1 Torture him

2 plain kill him

3 let him go

 

This kind of thing i really like. That defines my character of how I perceive him. There are also bigger thing but I like stuff like that.

 

Though you make a condescending remark, I aint hurt by it, I know that all that play isent like me and like different thing.

 

So again for me it is nice a great. You might not like it and maby it isent a game for you.

Enjoying your personal story is totally fine, I know I had a blast going through mine.

It just bothers me when people enjoy their story and then try to make it more than what it is. Your story "decisions" have no lasting effect on your character whatsoever. That is the simple fact of the matter. Either I choose to kill a major story character or I choose to save them, either way I get the same exact reward and I never see them ever again.

That is why bull crap like the OP bother me so much, I don't understand how people are okay with him spewing total nonsense like:

Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85... SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

Between his redundant heaping of praise onto Bioware his words are downright lies. Your decision don't form your end-game character. From a gameplay perspective, they are totally irrelevant.

Enjoying your personal story is totally fine, I know I had a blast going through mine.

 

It just bothers me when people enjoy their story and then try to make it more than what it is. Your story "decisions" have no lasting effect on your character whatsoever. That is the simple fact of the matter. Either I choose to kill a major story character or I choose to save them, either way I get the same exact reward and I never see them ever again.

 

That is why bull crap like the OP bother me so much, I don't understand how people are okay with him spewing total nonsense like:

 

 

 

Between his redundant heaping of praise onto Bioware his words are downright lies. Your decision don't form your end-game character. From a gameplay perspective, they are totally irrelevant.

Umm...if you kill a major character in YOUR story then yes...your decisions matter.

If I was watching Episode VI and wanted Luke to turn darkside but it didn't happen, my decision does not matter. In this game I can have my Jedi go dark or light, be a hero or anti-hero. Romance up another Jedi or simply not.

Sorry but changing YOUR story means it matters. Unless you were expecting your choices to change the game or something which is very unreasonable.

WOW ,you must set the bar awefully low for "spectacular".

Nah you just have no imagination or sense of adventure.

Enjoying your personal story is totally fine, I know I had a blast going through mine.

 

It just bothers me when people enjoy their story and then try to make it more than what it is. Your story "decisions" have no lasting effect on your character whatsoever. That is the simple fact of the matter. Either I choose to kill a major story character or I choose to save them, either way I get the same exact reward and I never see them ever again.

 

That is why bull crap like the OP bother me so much, I don't understand how people are okay with him spewing total nonsense like:

 

 

 

Between his redundant heaping of praise onto Bioware his words are downright lies. Your decision don't form your end-game character. From a gameplay perspective, they are totally irrelevant.

Well I hope that in future context of the game my decitions have a big effect, I have to say my BH is only level 40, so I dont know how big an effect will be later.

But yes I do understand what you meen.

I hope that in expansions your decitions will have a big impact if you have killed him or not. In the way of what you will be able to do. But time will tell the game is still young.

if you think cut scenes and voice acting make the quest anything but "pick up 10x item" or "kill 10x boars" youre fooling yourself.

if you skip the cutscene then yes the quest becomes a generic kill quest. and tbh if thats your thing then go for it.

but i want the game to fool me into thinking it is more, by use of a cutscene. it inmensly increases my enjoyment of that mundane quest. context is everything in this game. and it is also the reason why i cant go back to WoW.

 

Wow Phasing. - Should be standard tech on all new MMO's. I feel all MMO's should have phasing. It's just too important not to have anymore.

WoW phasing was horribly implemented. it pretty much forces you to complete all the quests, no matter how grinding, or you will be out of phase with everyone else. it was bad enough in Wrath (ok, lets summon people to ICC, 2 people run out... cannot see each other... fun times), but instead of figuring out how to fix it, they phased themselves into oblivion and turned leveling into completely solo endeavor. no longer could your friends come help you out with quests, becasue if you are not on the same leg, in the same phase? OOPS. so to compensate for that, what do they do? make killing mobs so stupid easy that it turns into a completely mindless grind that teaches you nothing about the class you are playing.

phasing is an interesting thing and SWTOR is actually using the technology via shards and story areas, but anything that truly affects the world? WoW didn't do such a god job with that. at all. at least with SWTOR you are not permanently stuck in your shard, you can easily group with people on other shards.

and the choices you make? they affect your character. you may do some diplomatic missions and give gifts to placate your companion, but if for example you have chosen to kill someone instead of helping them? in your story - they are dead. how you act changes how npc's see you. it changes quest progression. you can play the same class twice and still have a different story, side quests included.

so, to OP? I agree, wholeheartedly.

What happens when you hit level cap? That is the difference between a single player game and a MMO. End game IS the game in an MMO, everything else is prologue.

This is YOUR style and preference... but it is NOT everyone's. When I played EQ I turned my xp to 100% AAs well before the level cap to prolong the leveling. It was the journey that I was enjoying. Sure there are a lot that only care about being at cap, but your blanket statement is inaccurate at best.

Well I hope that in future context of the game my decitions have a big effect, I have to say my BH is only level 40, so I dont know how big an effect will be later.

But yes I do understand what you meen.

I hope that in expansions your decitions will have a big impact if you have killed him or not. In the way of what you will be able to do. But time will tell the game is still young.

They do have impact, your companion may hate you. You can get certain gear based on if you are LS/DS. Also just how they change your story.

Also if you've played ME there really aren't some big decisions that you make that changes the gameplay. You get a appearance change, see the story a little differently...it's the same thing here.

Have a system where you didn't get the most awesome looking gear because you chose not to kill Dude A in chapter 1 and now you're lacking evil points. Result: QQ on forums

Have a system where the choices are completely meaningless or there's no choice at all, just auto-accept quest text. Result: QQ on forums

Have a system where there are choices to be made. Most of them cosmetic but all of them pertaining to your character. Bring the voice work and cut scenes together to allow for greater immersion but don't make the game feel like nothing but a point and click movie. Take best of all MMOs and mash it into the soup to create a great game. Result: QQ on forums

I'm not seeing how Bioware made a bad choice here people. Haters gonna hate, children gonna cry and Imma play this game.

+1 for the OP

if you skip the cutscene then yes the quest becomes a generic kill quest. and tbh if thats your thing then go for it.

 

but i want the game to fool me into thinking it is more, by use of a cutscene. it inmensly increases my enjoyment of that mundane quest. context is everything in this game. and it is also the reason why i cant go back to WoW.

If you skip the cutscenes for a GTA game you'll enjoy it a lot less also. Then it becomes a "Just shoot things" or "Drive to this point" game.

I find the whole "Without the cutscenes it's just a kill X quest." yeah well...this is why cutscenes are in every major action/adventure game released nowadays. Although some single player games have addictive gameplay the cutscenes usually just add to it.

Agree with the OP, other MMOS are so boring, leveling up a character in WoW is HELL.

Really? I always have fun learning mechanics (AoE Prot grinding! Chain pulls! Soloing group quests and elites!) when I level. Keeps it fun.

I do the same in ToR.

So, WoWs end-game has been going on for the last 8 years?

WoW's raids, where less than 6% of the player base (Blizzards numbers -- not mine) ever see it, is end game?

Changing your toons play-style with every patch is end-game?

 

The only "true" end-game that any game can have is PvP. I will let you figure that statement out, as it would take a bit to explain it fully.

 

Your statement of End-Game IS the game is why MMOs of today fail. This paradigm was created by Blizzard, who because of their paradigm now has to spend months upon months and spend a huge budget in creating so called end-game content every two months. After all that time and money they sit back and watch their "end-game" players burn through it in 2 weeks then head to the forum and scream for more.

 

You have missed the point of the topic dear Sir. This Paradigm NEEDS to be broken or we will all be stuck playing WoW forever. BW took a chance with SWTOR. They have decided to attack that paradigm.

 

I for one believe they succeeded.

Actually that paradigm was popularized by EQ, not WoW...

And you do realize that MMO players who PvP are a numerical minority, right? I understand that you may see PvP as being "the meat of the game", as its probably what you enjoy the most.

You probably cut your teeth on something hardcore pvp like L2, or maybe to a lesser extent, Aion. But 'end game content' has never been the meta-content that pvp offers, not in a classical sense. PvP used to be "what happened on the way to cap". The whole IDEA of end-game content is wholly separate from PvP, even going back to MUDs and whatnot, as there -was- no endgame. You PvP'd to cap and then cycled over to a new level 1 with capped stats. The concept of 'end game content' was when they started adding cooperative bosses, which eventually became raids.

Sorry for the history lesson but your premise is a bit flawed.

Anyway, yes, Bioware has done a great job with pulling us all into the story. Granted I tend to spacebar through some of the sidequest junk, especially the alien language ones. But my class quest and its related spinoffs keep me riveted, and I enjoy the hell out of the group content as well.

Also, datacrons. Nothing like watching your guildies plummet to their deaths over and over.

Am I the only person who wants to force choke some of these haters. If the game is so aweful go play something else.

Indeed

They do have impact, your companion may hate you. You can get certain gear based on if you are LS/DS. Also just how they change your story.

 

Also if you've played ME there really aren't some big decisions that you make that changes the gameplay. You get a appearance change, see the story a little differently...it's the same thing here.

What I meen is that I would like in the story so see more of your old choises be put in the story, and more of the NPC react on what you have done. Or even bock or open a big quest line cuz you have done some thing.

Yes it has an impact but I like a bigger inpact. I love it now but would like it just a tad bigger Give a lion you hand it takes your arm I know.

No, 3 hours of cut scenes about go collect 10 X on each planet gets old very quickly.

If you don't care about the story then yes, the story changes nothing for you personally. Any game can only offer so many varieties of gameplay. They usually can be broken down to 3 things; attack, defend, travel. This is a limitation not of MMOs, but for any game. Attack X number of enemy Y, defend A from enemy B or Go to location Z. Be it a FPS, an adventure game or an MMO all games can have their tasks simplified into these 3 catagories.

TOR is a classical MMO with exceptional story telling. But if you don't care for story the it is just an MMO like many others. But keep in mind, the fault is with YOU not caring about story and not a fault of the game itself.

Those that are new to MMO's may not fully appreciate this topics title. Let me explain. In most MMO's the "Real" game does not start until you reach the highest level and begin running the "so-called end-game content". Take the king of MMOS, WoW, as an example. The road from 1-85 is an excruciating one where nothing you do will have any impact on your toon at level 85. It is called a "grind" for a reason. WoW is not the only culprit here. Most MMOs follow this same broken paradigm.

 

SWTOR breaks the paradigm and sets a new one.

 

In SWTOR the "Real" game starts the moment you see the first cut-scene of your character. Starting at level 1 the decisions you make FORM your character. Each mission, each answer you chose has an impact. The game starts at level 1 -- not at the level end-cap! People, this is HUGE! It is genre-setting! It blows away the current MMO paraqdigm of grinding to end-cap levels.

 

This is why SWTOR succeeds. It is ground breaking in its approach. It amazingly combines the single player aspect with the MMO one. Dont let the complainers fool you either. There is an absolute TON of group content in this game. Yes -- It is an MMO in every aspect of the word EXCEPT it breaks the grind.

 

Your SWTOR life begins at level 1.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

that.

i am leveling my 6th toon to 15 as of this moment. smuggler accidentally got to level 19 too fast, and im making it wait until all other 5 toons reach 19.