Guardian 2.4

 

SHADOW

 

TFB DATA

post 2.5 slope and intercept:: -2.86631E-05 0.370996245

post 2.5 spike at 2682: 0.04225

pre 2.5 slope and intercept: -3.4083E-05 0.43397

spike at 2682 in 2.4: 0.053634426

 

total d s a squish post 2.5 pre 2.5

2500 180 1027 1293 0.299358745 0.348790151

2600 180 1080 1340 0.296452002 0.345333771

2700 180 1133 1387 0.293585494 0.341925235

2800 180 1186 1434 0.290760 0.338565326

 

2682 180 1123 1379 0.29410 0.342535207

 

relic data (2.4)

weighted relic base diff

def proc 0.3371 0.3252 0.3413 0.0054 5999

abs proc 0.3379 0.3247 0.3425 0.0047 6948

shd use 0.3391 0.3218 0.3425 0.0034 9391

use def 0.3403 0.3292 0.3425 0.0022 14566

warding 32.3810

Is the healing relic no longer viable for Shadows? I didn't see it mentioned anywhere.

Can someone explain how to read/understand the relic section? Like am I comparing the first numbers? Second? To see which will be better for the class to use.

Allow me to interpret, ideal relics for all tanks averaged over most encounters will be the Dread Forged Relic of Fortunate Redoubt and the Dread Forged Relic of Reactive Warding. If the relic tier you're at does not have a Reactive Warding Relic and you are a Guardian or Vanguard, get the Relic of Shield Amplification. If you are a Shadow and doing either Nightmare mode of the previous operations or HM of the current operations, get the Relic of Shield Amplification. If you are only running HM of SnV and TfB, get the Relic of Ephemeral Mending.

So, ideally Fortunate Redoubt + Reactive Warding or if you can't get the Reactive Warding -> Fortunate Redoubt + Shield Amplification.

as an example:

weighted relic base diff =warding

def proc 0.3037 0.2927 0.3075 0.0050 6526

abs proc 0.3047 0.2937 0.3086 0.0039 8329

shd use 0.3062 0.2938 0.3086 0.0025 13070

use def 0.3066 0.2964 0.3086 0.0020 15846

warding 32.38095238

so weighted is basically your expected mitigation with that relic. the column called relic, is what your squishiness is while the relic is on, and the base is what your squish is while your relic is not proced. the diff column gives you how much mroe mitigation you are getting compared to not having a relic at all. =warding column tells you what dps will make that relic equal to the warding relic (above that dps you want that rows relic).

so u can wither use the lowest weighted, lowest =warding or the highest diff. if u are fighting a boss that dopes more than 8329 dps, you would want to switch out the warding relic for the absorb proc one.

Alright follow up questions to the relic one;

1. Has there been the math done on the new Ops to detail out their damage output per boss like was done with SV and TfB? If so where can I find this info?

2. What was the formula used to figure these out? As all of this math is done with Dread Forged I presume, so kinda curious if the numbers change with the lower tiers.

And one really odd question directed to dip about the AMR profile for the Shadow;

Is the primary stat proc relic a mistake? As the last time I looked at it (around the time of my first post) it was the 255 primary stat on proc relic.

Thanks for all the help folks

~Zen

here is DF and DP info ( i need to get those added to KBN post, since i dont have room in my 2 posts): http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=685465

the numbers for 2.0 and 2.2 are in these forums, but only for snv and tfb which have similar damage type ratios to DF and DP respectivly. you can see how numbers change at different stat budgets here: http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=616779

and yeah, the shadow build has wrong relic, ill fix that. should be redoubt and warding.

Dread Fortress Damage Ratios

Nefra

M/R K/E DTPS: 8017.74

F/T I/E DTPS: 195.63

Total DTPS: 8213.37

M/R K/E: 0.9762

F/T I/E: 0.0238

Gate Commander Draxus

M/R K/E DTPS: 2582.08

F/T K/E DTPS: 332.46

F/T I/E DTPS: 303.47

Total DTPS: 3218.01

M/R K/E: 0.8024

F/T K/E: 0.0651

F/T I/E: 0.0943

Grob'Thok

Boss Tank

M/R K/E DTPS: 3933.88

F/T K/E DTPS: 1504.63

Total DTPS: 5438.51

M/R K/E: 0.7233

F/T K/E: 0.2767

Corruptor Zero

M/R K/E DTPS: 2332.84

F/T K/E DTPS: 1506.44

F/T I/E DTPS: 339.95

Total DTPS: 4176.23

M/R K/E: 0.5586

F/T K/E: 0.3600

F/T I/E: 0.0814

Dread Master Brontes

M/R K/E DTPS: 1959.79

F/T K/E DTPS: 948.20

F/T I/E DTPS: 393.54

Total DTPS: 3301.53

M/R K/E: 0.5936

F/T K/E: 0.2873

F/T I/E: 0.1191

Dread Palace Damage Ratios

Dread Master Bestia

M/R K/E DTPS: 2129.51

F/T K/E DTPS: 1488.19

F/T I/E DTPS: 60.73

Total DTPS: 3678.43

M/R K/E: 0.5789

F/T K/E: 0.4046

F/T I/E: 0.0165

Dread Master Tyrans

M/R K/E DTPS: 2675.99

F/T K/E DTPS: 1475.85

F/T I/E DTPS: 155.94

Total DTPS: 4307.78

M/R K/E: 0.6212

F/T K/E: 0.3426

F/T I/E: 0.0362

Dread Master Calphayus

M/R K/E DTPS: 3828.27

F/T K/E DTPS: 119.20

F/T I/E DTPS: 39.07

Total DTPS: 3986.54

M/R K/E: 0.9603

F/T K/E: 0.0299

F/T I/E: 0.0098

Dread Master Raptus

M/R K/E DTPS: 2877.02

F/T K/E DTPS: 1517.11

F/T I/E DTPS: 175.47

Total DTPS: 4569.60

M/R K/E: 0.6296

F/T K/E: 0.3320

F/T I/E: 0.0384

OVERALL

Dread Fortress

M/R+K/E: 77.3227%

F/T+K/E: 17.6268%

F/T+I/E: 5.06244%

DtPS: 4869.55

Dread Palace

M/R+K/E: 66.6464%

F/T+K/E: 31.1310%

F/T+I/E: 2.22263%

DtPS: 4205.61

How exactly does the Warding relic work? As I see 2 different possibilities for the relics effect and everyone I speak to seems to be confused... So which of the following is it;

1. When it procs it absorbs the first 1.3k damage that you take, then goes on CD.

2. When it procs it absorbs 1.3k from all attacks that hit you during the 6 second window, then goes on CD.

Mostly my guildmate tanks seem to think its the first one, and me... Well I have no idea. And a dps put to them that maybe its the second.

And if it is the first.... How exactly is it BiS? It'll absorb X amount total, then be on CD for 40 seconds.... It seems so... bad for most fights.

TL: DR I was interested in some math to confirm mitigation >> accuracy when considering less than 100% debuff uptime due to f/t resist bosses have had since 2.0. Definitely no benefit to accuracy.

If you want to read I'd love comments on my assumptions, for knowledge stake:

So how does the Reactive Warding relic actually work? Does it reduce damage by X for the duration? Does it work on all damage types?

Think of it like a sorc bubble that lasts 6 seconds and absorbs a maximum of 1360 damage.

Hmm... the reason I ask this is that I haven't seen any extensive parse analysis on the proc yet. I finally got my hands on an Arkanian one and from what I can tell the lockout time is not the stated 40s. This lower lockout also doesn't seem to be due to different damage types or due to different bosses/adds hitting.

What also seems to have happened when the amount of damage absorb was fixed in 2.4.1 was that if the absorbed damage is split, the total amount absorbed is slightly less (ie 739 instead of 740 for an Arkanian relic).

In terms of mitigation priority, it seems that Blade Barricade, Shield Chance and Defence Chance do take priority over the proc, so it might be the case that it works post-mitigation.

In terms what can be absorbed, the proc definitely works on internal, elemental, kinetic, and energy damage.

Spreadsheet Analysis: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap394Q8NB51gdDNKS1RZc1MwcFU1MTBlejRZaWlxc3c&usp=sharing

Parse: http://www.torparse.com/a/474132/18/0/Overview

Enter Combat 22:30:23

Last Proc Lost 22:36:51

Parse Length 0:06:28

Actual No of Procs 14

Expected Dmg Absorbed 10360

Actual Dmg Absorbed 10357

Actual % Avg 99.97%

Avg Time Btwn Procs 0:00:29

Min Time Btwn Procs 0:00:20

@leto:

I can confirm that the arkanian relic was double bugged since the beginning. Seems they just fixed one of the bugs. I was making a bug report about the double bug of the arkanian relic at one time.

Atleast the dread forged one is fine and doesn't have any bugs at the moment.

@leto:

I can confirm that the arkanian relic was double bugged since the beginning. Seems they just fixed one of the bugs. I was making a bug report about the double bug of the arkanian relic at one time.

 

Atleast the dread forged one is fine and doesn't have any bugs at the moment.

Assuming the 40s lockout halves the number of procs, 7*1360 is only 9529 damaged absorbed (vs 10360).

Hmm... I do wonder, if this lockout bug makes the Arkanian Warding Relic better.

 

Assuming the 40s lockout halves the number of procs, 7*1360 is only 9529 damaged absorbed (vs 10360).

Well the timer is either 20+X seconds (for the arkanian relic) or 40+X seconds (for the dread forged one). So going for a specific time (lets say your 390 sec parse):

390 sec, 14 activations means X =7,85 seconds, so its 8,15 activations of the dread forged relic (390/(40+7,85))which equals to 11084 damage.

The difference between the 2 relics depends on the X, the average additional downtime of the relic, the shorter X is, the better the arkanian relic would be.

good work bdatt. if i had done the analysis i would have gotten into a bunch of states and joint probability, but u used my slope values right, and did soem pretty intuitive math to get a result.

in terms fo the warding relic: if its post mitigation (if shield takes priority, then it would just be armor and internal resistance), that makes it light years better than the other relics. it does make it hard to keep track of though... i think best case would be to get the warding proc on leftover damage from an absorbed kinetic/energy attack... in terms of backing out the pre mitigation damage reduced.

in terms fo the warding relic: if its post mitigation (if shield takes priority, then it would just be armor and internal resistance), that makes it light years better than the other relics. it does make it hard to keep track of though... i think best case would be to get the warding proc on leftover damage from an absorbed kinetic/energy attack... in terms of backing out the pre mitigation damage reduced.

Hmm... I haven't seen a case where it combines with a shield roll. What it looks like is that if defence/shield/resist rolls all fail, then that damage is absorbed. Even so, I have yet to see an instance where the buff has gone to waste. What makes it hard to track though is that "loses shield defence" only appears in the log if the the damage is split. Might be a bug.

Addendum: I might be wrong. I'm going through the full log and sometimes 740 absorbed comes from "hit" and sometimes it comes from "glance" (ie shielded). I also see an instance where Blade Barrier is on and absorbs 3 internal damage hits, cause the proc not to be consumed.

Spreadsheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap394Q8NB51gdGNIa1M1eGxoY2ZhSXhCb0p2dHlyUlE&usp=sharing (Silly me forgot to share the spreadsheet its shared now - 7 Nov)

After deciding to go through the log and look at all 80 of the shield defence procs, there are times when the presence of Force Armour or Blade Barrier causes the proc to go unconsumed. When Force Armour, Blade Barrier, Scrambling Field are present and the proc is consumed (ie the proc ends before 6s), it is very difficult to tell how the proc is consumed.

pay no mind to this post- the before values are correct. somsone was mistaken about resist adding to defense.

updated the AMR profiles (have to update the rest) for resistance applying to melee/ranged damage. here is the before and after (for DF/DP average):

BEFORE:

shadow

Defense 526

Shield 940

Absorb 1216

jugg

Defense 1057

Shield 940

Absorb 685

PT

Defense 613

Shield 1236

Absorb 833

AFTER

shadow

Defense 550

Shield 940

Absorb 1192

jugg

Defense 1119

Shield 940

Absorb 623

PT

Defense 659

Shield 1212

Absorb 811

Some further analysis on the Arkanian Warding Relic using another fight (HM Ops Chief and HM Olok) - https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0Ap394Q8NB51gdEt5dXc5RjZRRU5UZmpqY2lSOF9hR3c&usp=sharing

It seems that with the damage absorbed from Guardianship (receiving), Force Armour and Blade Barrier can be additive with the reactive warding proc.

I also seem to have found an instance where ranged energy damaged passed through saber reflect.

2.5 info with damage debuff on boss applying before stat/armor mitigation (DF/DP average at 6k dps, assumes arkanian RW relic procs at 23s, DF RW at 43 s):

shadow

Defense 526

Shield 940

Absorb 1216

pre armor squish 0.482105691

total squish 0.28503891

pre heals/absorb dtps 1710.23

post heals dtps 1710.23

damage per HP 3.508292955

spike 0.051336322

weighted relic base diff =ark =DF

def proc 0.2790 0.2651 0.2838 0.0061 5290 5200

abs proc 0.2801 0.2663 0.2850 0.0049 6573 6461

jugg:

Defense 1057

Shield 940

Absorb 685

pre armor squish 0.585751481

total squish 0.307396701

pre heals/absorb dtps 1844

post heals dtps 1711.05

damage per HP 3.253125346

spike 0.04549478

weighted relic base diff =ark =DF

def proc 0.3022 0.2904 0.3064 0.0052 6210 6104

abs proc 0.3032 0.2914 0.3074 0.0042 7715 7584

vanguard:

Defense 613

Shield 1236

Absorb 833

pre armor squish 0.568857017

total squish 0.290074849

pre heals/absorb dtps 1740

post heals dtps 1740.45

damage per HP 3.44738609

spike 0.045144393

weighted relic base diff =ark =DF

def proc 0.2847 0.2725 0.2890 0.0054 5989 5888

abs proc 0.2858 0.2735 0.2901 0.0043 7442 7316

heres some pvp info: full obroan gives 630 shield minimum and a budget of 1787 (without relics), no defense minimum (except from relic) for shadows and vanguards (both which want zero). this assumes 40% m/r k/e, 40% f/t k/e and 20% f/t i/e. no 90% accuracy attacks. maybe i should assume pvp dpers have 5% accuracy. 7k incoming damage per second.

shadow:

Defense 0

Shield 744

Absorb 1043

pre armor squish 0.493112319

total squish 0.403561433

pre heals/absorb dtps 2824.93

post heals dtps 2824.93

damage per HP 2.477937481

spike 0.055240042

required hps 2640.121522

TTK 16.74417685

jugg:

Defense 260

Shield 685

Absorb 841

pre armor squish 0.591053107

total squish 0.426151005

pre heals/absorb dtps 2983

post heals dtps 2849.72

damage per HP 2.346586043

spike 0.052670474

TTK 14.36819998

PT:

Defense 0

Shield 1087

Absorb 700

pre armor squish 0.554912056

total squish 0.408129335

pre heals/absorb dtps 2857

post heals dtps 2856.91

damage per HP 2.450203683

spike 0.060011606

TTK 14.7012221

the 4% from telekinetic throw might be a bad assumption. let me know what you think would be better assumptions and ill put them in the model and spit out some new numebrs.