Personally I cannot wait for addons. Back in WoW i used 2 addons, recount and dominos. Having the chance to rearrange my UI is greatly needed because currently too many things overlap in the current standard UI. Also a lot of people dont know they benefit from addons when they don't even have them. If you are a raider at all, unless you want to spend tons of hours doing calculations for yourself, you look at online sites for advice on the best gear, optimal number to stop in terms of a diminishing return stat and such. These online sites get their information from addons. With a combat parse, we will see spreadsheets pop up, best gear lists, etc, and wiki sites will finally be useful.

Bioware has the authority to limit addons so there is no way they will allow an addon into the system that is a bot in anyway. Therefore nothing is "unfair". Back when I played WoW i couldnt stand addons like healbot and DBM, so I came up with a clever solution.... I didn't use them. Sure I poked fun at the people who had to use them but it didnt ever give them an unfair advantage over me, it just put them on equal footing which helps raids as a whole and creates competition between guilds which makes end game more appealing over time.

To all the people who don't like when a group or guild says you need an addon, don't group with them. There are plenty of people on this thread that feel the same way as you so group with them and have fun the way you want.

I think a lot of the confusion comes from people thinking addons are macros. Macros definately should remain out of the game because macros do things for you that increases your output beyond your physical levels. Addons are just tools to help guide you and sort of tailor the game for the individual player to enjoy it, remember they are paying a monthy fee just like you, they should be able to get the same enjoyment.

Edit: Spellingz

I would be ok with players using addons, if they dont shove it down my throat or force me to use them. When it gets to the point that I cant do raids because I choose to not use addons then we have a problem. I can guarantee that my game will be just as good or better than players that rely on addons. I prefer not to use them since I feel players rely to much on them and never learn how to play the game. Take the addons out of WoW and you see guilds of clueless people that think they are elite raiders. I would prefer to never see them in this game so the good raiders will stand out from the bad ones.

 

...but thats not going to happen, players want to use the "easy' button for raids.

Addons aren't an 'easy-button'. They are simply tools that can show you have to maximize your damage by changing what you're doing slightly. You sound like the kind of person who would fit in great in my guild, but your performance would be lacking due to not willing to go the extra distance to improve yourself, so you'd end up getting kicked out.

It's simple, if you want to do top-end content, you need to be a top-end player. It's a lifestyle, so either get with it, or don't cry when you can't do it.

Exactly. I've never heard of a PUG requiring an addon. If they did, they were probably awful. The only people who require addons are the ones who are trying to raid or pvp competitively. And guess what: any time you join a team in life, whether it's in a video game or a sport or work, you're going to have requirements put on you.

"It's just a game; I don't like people telling me how to play." You think an athlete at any level would get far with that attitude? "Guys, stop tracking who had the most rebounds and assists and points and stuff, keeping track of those numbers brings out the arrogance in people." Raiding and competitive PvP is the same way. If you want to join a team and progress toward some kind of goal, your team has the right to make certain demands.

Besides, this argument about how you'll be required to have all these addons and they'll clutter up your screen is garbage. Install the addons and then hide or disable them.

And really, the current interface is pretty awful. The buffs and debuffs are these teeeny tiny pictures with no easy way to tell how much time is left on them or what type they are or much of anything. I basically have to memorize every debuff that might hit the tank just so I can know if I need to dispel or not, and forget tracking HoTs on multiple targets.

itt : Scrubs scared of getting kicked out of raids for not being a valuable member of a raid

^ qfe ^

ITT : Scrubs scared of getting kicked out of raids for not being a valuable member of a raid

This quote is accurate. You don't want addons because you want to raid with those "elitist" players who require addons. If you didn't, then adding addons wouldn't be a problem because you'd never play with those types anyways.

Can I just have a Addon that hides all my bars..

I want to see the game world, not a bunch of bars.

thanks.

I'm seeing some simple confusion here. You're confusing mods existing with player behaviors.

The reliable argument against mods is often "I'll be forced to use them".

The addons don't force you to use themselves do they? Are these mind control addons? No.

Raid leaders require them. People.

And yes. I acknowledge the fact that most raids will require addons. That in and of itself is an argument FOR addons.

Granted some people want to raid and raid w/o addons. Fine. But this is not a solo game and raids are not solo raids. If the majority of the raid decides they want everyone to use addons. GOOD. (no raid leader is a tyrant. I've seen plenty raids get rid of bad ones even bad ones that were guild masters)

I desire addons for the simple fact that their widely considered a positive item. I also prefer to highly customize my ui ( I'm a hudfag. ). Even with a "customizable ui" I won't achieve near what I could with my own creativity. I view addon creation and use as another creative part of the game itself that I quite enjoy (( my opinion granted)

So if you want to have no addons then you're most likely in the minority I think we can agree. And the majority of paying customers have agreed we would like to have the system that other similar products have had for YEARS.

Rift is a prime example of why electing not to have a system is bad.

Oh and a final bit of input for the people that argue addons cause discrimination. BIOWARE DOESN't GIVE 2 FLYING LEAPS IF YOU GET KICKED FROM RAID BECAUSE OF IT. Here's a quote about combat logs. "there's no conspiracy where we're like we're hiding this so people aren't discriminating against other players. If you want to, you know, run a very competitive operations group and you wanna improve, having this data is certainly interesting. Umm and we're not against it...."

Bioware is completely fine with competitive discriminating behavior.

This really feels like a matter of the developers wanting the game one way and the gamers another. The reality is is that it doesn't matter what Bioware wants. They aren't why the game exists. In this highly competitive market either the customer majority (pro addon I believe, and will continute to believe unless I can get an unbiased large scale data group showing otherwise) wants this system and they will eventually get it. Either from bioware or trion or blizzard.... =)

Hard modes and Operations are currently designed to be completed without addons. Implementing addons would make such flashpoints much easier, and that would mean that the majority of players will use them and will force you to use them. Small minorities who deliberately decide to play without them are often so small that they're irrelevant.

Now the problem is that since those flashpoints tend to become fairly easy once addons are implemented, future content would be designed with addons in mind and in less than a year, Operations would become literally impossible without them.

The moral of the story is that no matter how you put it, addons force you to use them.

Hard modes and Operations are currently designed to be completed without addons. Implementing addons would make such flashpoints much easier

There are many ways to set the difficulty of content. By far the worst way is to handicap players with a terrible, unmodifiable UI, so that information they are legitimately entitled to have (such as remaining duration on HOTs, proc notifications, target-of-target, etc.) is either inaccessible or very inconvenient.

If current content is, in fact, tuned to the assumption that players will be running it with a UI that is the equivalent of wearing mittens and blinders, then BW needs to change their fundamental development philosophy. IOW, if you're right, then the game has much bigger problems than just a bad UI.

There are many ways to set the difficulty of content. By far the worst way is to handicap players with a terrible, unmodifiable UI, so that information they are legitimately entitled to have (such as remaining duration on HOTs, proc notifications, target-of-target, etc.) is either inaccessible or very inconvenient.

 

If current content is, in fact, tuned to the assumption that players will be running it with a UI that is the equivalent of wearing mittens and blinders, then BW needs to change their fundamental development philosophy. IOW, if you're right, then the game has much bigger problems than just a bad UI.

I agree that the UI needs some work, and I think it's not as functional as Bioware meant it to be. I hope that they will improve it through future patches.

I wouldn't mind UI customization addons *that* much to be honest, I was mainly talking about threat / damage meters, addons that facilitate healing and raid assists.

I like cars without speedometers.. That way I can just look out the windshield and not worry about the numbers...

But that's not a good idea..

A raid leader isn't going to give you crap if your not running a parser, and are putting up good numbers. Likewise a raid leader isn't going to cut you a break because your running a parser, but putting out bad hps/dps.

There's a lot of talk about WoW in here, but as a ex top-10 WW EQ2 raider, a parser was very important. To the point that SoE put in training dummy's to allow baseline'ing gear and rotations, as well as seeing tangable benefits of buffs.

Giving people information is never a bad thing. And those that are against it, probably won't be HC raiders anyhow, as generally the HC people want the quantative data, and are competitive.

Because the game doesnt force us to the community on the other hand forces pointless add on down your throat every second of everyday.

Be it the Epeen fight with the DPS meter or the lack of MODs keeping you out of groups no matter how you look at it you as a player in a game with third party add ons you are infact forced to use them.

Mind you I dont see an issue with add on that are made by or supported by BW. But I will now and forever reject third party add ons in this or any game because they ruin the community not only do they support and fester an elietest jerk mentality they are the #2 if not #1 source account hacking.

The reason people want add on is because they were needed to bypass very poor game mechs and lazy programing in order to make things seem hard. Every single raid style fight in WoW was a gimmick fight. It had soemthing that would or could wipe the group and gave you no grafix effect sound effect or in game warning it forced you to get these add on or go out of your way with insane manual calculation that would make them inposable with out these add ons.

This game is not like that and there for they are not needed.

The elitist behaivour that comes along with addons is the main problem.

Wow has proven that point more than enough. A lovely game at vanilla has become a game full of insults, hate and kicking. A small minority of elitists rule the game now - its a pain

People like the game to be dumbed down for some reason, and not having addons dumbs the game down.

Addons make it so the developers are forced to develop harder encounters, and people who are anti-addon are completely against that.

People who want addons like the customization and more difficult game play.

People who don't want addons prefer easier content that they can be carried through.

Mind you I dont see an issue with add on that are made by or supported by BW. But I will now and forever reject third party add ons in this or any game because they ruin the community not only do they support and fester an elietest jerk mentality they are the #2 if not #1 source account hacking.

This is completely wrong and shows how little you know about addons.

First of all, EVERY SINGLE ADDON EVER MADE FOR WOW was supported by Blizzard because it used the API that Blizzard created to allow for addons. Addon's can't do anything over what blizzard allows them to do.

Second the reason accounts are hacked are replying to phishing emails, using the same PW everywhere, and having poor overall computer security. I used 100+ addons at any given time over 6 years and through healthy computer safety I was never hacked a single time on WoW.

99% of the time it's the account owners fault that they got hacked.

I would like a UI addon such as the bartender4 type set up where you can move your bars at least.

Everything else is like people say, user pref.

As I've said before... I have no problem with, ah, hardcore PvErs who need their training wheels and waterwings but if the game starts becoming balanced around these crutches I'll become a lot less tolerant of these 'hardcore' PvErs.

So basically you want bioware to develop easier content so you can stay competitive with the addon users? No thanks I prefer a challenging game.

So basically you want bioware to develop easier content so you can stay competitive with the addon users? No thanks I prefer a challenging game.

Sounds like he just wants to press random buttons on his bar and hope for the best while his raid carries him through.

I, for one, enjoy the ability to see how well my damage or healing does respective to my fellow raiders.

This is completely wrong and shows how little you know about addons.

 

First of all, EVERY SINGLE ADDON EVER MADE FOR WOW was supported by Blizzard because it used the API that Blizzard created to allow for addons. Addon's can't do anything over what blizzard allows them to do.

 

 

Incorrect. There were addons throughout the life of WoW that were beyond what Blizzard was prepared to support. At several times addons were banned and code rewritten by the developers to disallow their use, specifically because the developers stated that the addons made the content too easy.

As well, arguing that a positive supporting attitude is given to something simply because somebody created something that doesn't specifically disallow certain things is faulty logic in the extreme.

So basically you want bioware to develop easier content so you can stay competitive with the addon users? No thanks I prefer a challenging game.

In no way does the creation or noncreation of addons create a challenging atmosphere for a game. While some addons are indeed helpful in streamlining aspects of the game and allowing developers to create content that is more complex in scale, other addons specifically go against this goal and result in the content becoming less challenging not more so.

The argument of addons or not is more about people's own preconceptions than it is about the reality of game design and challenge. A final point though: for those who shriek about simply not using something, that is a logical fallacy. You can't simply claim that something is justified in creation or inclusion simply because it has the option to not be used.

Incorrect. There were addons throughout the life of WoW that were beyond what Blizzard was prepared to support. At several times addons were banned and code rewritten by the developers to disallow their use, specifically because the developers stated that the addons made the content too easy.

This is how they supported them. Blizzard controls what is allowed under the API, they allowed for all the addons that existed at some point, if like you said they didn't like something they removed it from the API. This is a perfect example of how blizzard did support addons, thank you for strengthening my argument.