or, you know, you can change up your play style and survive even longer?

 

instead of wave->speed, you can now speed->jump->turn->wave, and knock them even further away?

 

do you even play a sage, obviously not because that is imposable to do as a sage because everyone on the field is targeting you. go back to playing your ranged class.

do you even play a sage, obviously not because that is imposable to do as a sage because everyone on the field is targeting you. go back to playing your ranged class.

 

run back 5-10 steps, overload, turn around, force speed, LoS. Simpler, enemies get pushed further away from you, ranged would be too far to get hit by overload anyway.

run back 5-10 steps, overload, turn around, force speed, LoS. Simpler, enemies get pushed further away from you, ranged would be too far to get hit by overload anyway.

 

Where do you see in that thread that it knocks the target back further? It is the same distance but instead of knocking targets all the way around you, you are now limited to using FORCE WAVE on targets IN FRONT of you.

Where do you see in that thread that it knocks the target back further? It is the same distance but instead of knocking targets all the way around you, you are now limited to using FORCE WAVE on targets IN FRONT of you.

 

Doubled range (15 from 8). I didn't mean the actual KB is further, but because everyone is knocked in the same direction, the overall distance from you and all the melee people hitting you is further, especially if you then turn around and run. Sorry for not being very specific about what i meant. And if you take 10 or so steps back quickly, all targets should be relatively in front of you, at least in that 120 degree cone, unless they react very quickly and stop running around in circles.

Edited September 5, 2012 by iamglass

my objection is that i respec-ed my sorc last night, so i have lost my free respec! now if i respec it will cost me ;(

my objection is that i respec-ed my sorc last night, so i have lost my free respec! now if i respec it will cost me ;(

you realize the respec cost reduces over time, right? wait a week, and it'll be free again.

 

also, when 1.4 hits, you'll have your talents refunded to you.

About the change to AoE Overload:

You know it's still possible to take like 5 steps back and hit most if not all the people attacking you with the Overload, THEN turn around and run away instead. The range has been increased to 15 from 8 in case most of you missed that. This effectively means that all your targets will be pushed away from you as your run instead of having them haphazardly tossed around you.

 

1) Take 5 steps backwards and hit most if not all the people attacking you? Uhh, before I didn't have to move and hit 100% of the people attacking me. Furthermore, you assume that I can just move 5 steps backwards and my enemy will just stand still.....this is not realistic. Plus, every enemy player KNOWS that it is only frontal arc, so they all are going to try their best to remain on my side/back. This isn't PvE.

 

2) I have to take 5 step backwards, turn, instant-overload (GCD activates), THEN TURN AGAIN UNLESS I WANT TO RUN INTO THE ENEMY THAT I JUST KNOCKED BACK, and then run. Furthermore, if I'm just knocking back 1 attacker, the guy I just knocked back 15m is now out of my range for a stun, but he can still leap to me or range attack me. ***?

 

3) The enemy was never "haphazardly tossed around you" as you claim. The enemy was always tossed directly away from you depending upon their position relative to yours. I always knew where the enemy was going to land when I hit overload. I also never said to myself after an overload "oh jeez, i didn't mean to hit that particular enemy". Trust me, I mean to hit ALL OF THEM.

 

Clearly a lot of people want to chime in about the changes that don't have a freaking clue about PvP as a DPS sorc. It was tough enough and took tons of skill to make it as a DPS sorc, but doing well and occassionally winning a 1v1 encounter really meant a lot to me because I knew it was skill/gear related and not because I'm overpowered. I play other classes as well, but I don't get the satisfaction when I win 1v1 because I know some of my other classes are stupidly overpowered. Only my DPS sorc provided that satisfaction; doing well with an underpowered class. Now, it goes from being underpowered to a joke with even less survivability.

 

I cancelled my account on these changes but I just still am fuming over them. I want to have a DPS sorc that is competitive, and I suppose by posting on these forums maybe someone at Bioware will wake up and realize what they've done, undo the changes, boost some of the DPS abilities or something so that the class is somewhat desired in RWZ groups. Post 1.4, I assure you nobody will want a DPS sorc in their RWZ group.

So basically you give the immune to interrupts to sages like I have wanted for so long but you give it to the skill tree no one uses in PVP?? People either play madness/balance or corruption/seer and the healers, since ALL of our heals worth ANYTHING are casted or channeled AND with all the crap your doing to resolve, not to mention the number of stuns, interrupts, knockbacks and anything else I am missing, is really going to make sorc/sage healers disappear in PVP even more than they already have.

 

On force speed are you going to keep the talent that will spec that down 10sec so it would be from 20 to 10?

 

Seems like instead of focusing on the skills tree that needed to be worked on for PVP "healing tree" you decided to buff up the tree that hardly anyone uses but in PVE. SO again you fix a problem that doesn't exist. Thanks for that

What i don't understand is why we need another ability for this. Woulden't it be better to rework electro dart and cryo grenade to have a viable interrupt for both Bounty Hunter and Trooper classes?

 

I.e. lower the cooldown and turn it into an interrupt/stun where applicable. So on a boss it works as an interrupt and on regular mobs it stuns them for the normal duration. Also the range, 10 metres is way too close, remember these are ranged classes. Adding a new ability just wastes more space on the player's action bars.

 

Having the stun and interrupt on the same spell would be pure fail. Either you would have an interrupt on a one minute cooldown (useless) or a stun on a 6-12 sec cooldown (way too op)

Leave sents and marauders crazy unbalanced because NO ONE AT ALL is complaining about them ever.

 

But they're not crazy unbalanced. My Shadow, Sniper and Scoundrel can all attest to this. Quit QQing and L2P.

 

Continue to allow the highest DPS class in PVP to be a tank because, again, NO ONE AT ALL thinks this is stupid and everyone would like people in heavy armour to continue to be unstoppable DPS machines.

 

But the highest DPS class in PvP is not a Tank, unless you mean crit. Sure Juggs can crit huge 8-9K with Smash, but they are largely a one trick pony and those major crits are relatively rare.

 

Make ganking more common by increasing the power of stealth.

 

I agree with you on this point. This will be a major problem in 1.4 if the Stealth changes go through as stated. The access to frequent in-combat Stealth should be the sole province of just a few ACs that rely on it for survivability and surprise. There is too much Stealth in this game already. We don't need more.

 

 

They should call this game Stealth Wars , form what they have said. gurantee it your gonna see people hitting and leaving more and more, stealth classes every where now. . You thought it was bad now with all groups of stealthers now? they gave them a increase in there ability to use it more often so ya good game on that one.

 

You are absolutely correct. They need to implement the Stealth change to specific Infiltration/Deception/Concealment/Scrapper ACs only.

 

 

I figured that be quite obvious. Electrodart is instant, where as the others have casting times. it basically comes down to...instant=10m or CastingTime=30m

 

Not just that. But notice BW is forcing hard stun usage into closer quarters fighting. This is a good change.

 

 

As a mercenary healer, I like the sound of this.

 

You should. Merc/Commando Healers will likely be OP after 1.4, even moreso than Sawbones/Ops healers.

 

 

All I see on these boards today are f'ing crybabies that arent thinking before they type.

 

Pretty much. Instead of a Run of the Bulls, this thread has become a Run of the Bads. They can't read, can't think, and can't adapt. All they know how to do is QQ.

 

 

Seriously, I'm done. Back to real life for me...

 

The changes listed are proposed changes, they are not official Patch notes yet. It's a Dev journal most likely issued to get feedback from the community. Anyone that quits the game because of this is a clown.

run back 5-10 steps, overload, turn around, force speed, LoS. Simpler, enemies get pushed further away from you, ranged would be too far to get hit by overload anyway.

 

So run back 5-10 steps... the people who are dpsing me aren't going to run with me? And if I back up they will be running forward and be faster, if I turn around and run I have to do a pair of 180s while not dpsing the sent/mara attached to my rear.

Having the stun and interrupt on the same spell would be pure fail. Either you would have an interrupt on a one minute cooldown (useless) or a stun on a 6-12 sec cooldown (way too op)

 

Like i said they can lower the CD which is currently 1 min to 30 seconds. The abilty stuns an enemy for the normal duration thus also countering any spell and on bosses, which are stun immune they just cancel the spell being cast.

all right i am going to just go ahead and say it.

 

Dear Bioware: free to play will not save your game IF NO ONE WANTS TO PLAY IT. if you want people to play your game make it fun and they will. continuing to take all the fun out of the game in the name of "PVP balance" is not the way to go.

 

we have been over this in every major update/nerf fest and every time you fail to learn that you have lost large chunks of your player base every time. these people will not come back and buy from your cash shop or sub if they no longer find the game fun.

 

P.S why can we not vote the thread 1 star it automatically bumps it up to 2 stars?

So the jedi guardian is totally abandoned? You don't have nothing to fix? What about to suffer more damage than a sentinel?

 

I'm full war hero augmented, focus spec, and suffer more damage than a sentinel and i don't have the same damage.

 

Where's the balance?

@ sundragon's post:

1) yes, but most enemies will likely be doing the back and forth/circling routine, meaning you will catch some by surprise, especially if you don't always pick back as the method to hit them (sides and front can work to albeit requiring a bit more timing to turn push back)

 

2) unless you were positioned exactly right, and the enemies were exactly in the right location. you would still run through/into some enemies escaping with the 360 degree arc, this lessens that possibility.

 

3) not sure what to say about the first part as spamming overload to knock enemies in every which direction was easy, but the second part i completely agree that the range nerf on the stun is unnecessary. dumb, since the sorc/sage is a ranged only class, with no melee specs, therefore it should have a ranged stun.

 

As far as DPS classes go, yea sorc/sages are getting the short end of the stick with these changes. I feel that the new insta heal should ignore gcd (combined with some clutch shields, could extend survivability quite a bit) and the no snare/root should include all movement impairing abilities, so people cannot pull/hook shot you back also, it should be lower on the tree so that both DPS and Healers can make use of it. It shouldn't be a healers only specc'd ability.

Edited September 5, 2012 by iamglass

Fixing the resolve issues was definatly needed but I am just not convince about the other class changes I thought the balance was pretty good as it stands...I play a shadow tank and I love it and how it plays... I don't think its OP'd like some claim because I have a bunch of 50s and it all comes down to whos playing it...if you know how to play your class and your properly geared trust me you'll do just fine.

Can someone from the Bioware team tells us when(e.g. this week, next week) to expect an article detailing changes to the classes (e.g. increase dps, ...)? Hopefully the reply won't be "soon".

 

The current changes related to pvp are so so and hard to make a proper assessment if I only have a sample of the bigger picture.

 

Thanks

Edited September 5, 2012 by Lightbins

Every class balance change makes me wish PvP and PvE had totally separate specs.

 

Why? Of the proposed changes, please state which change is totally detrimental to PvE as it is currently played, both leveling and in endgame. Sorry, but some of the carebears in this thread are overreactiing, mainly because they are bad.

 

 

They should make different skill sets for PVP and PVE so that PVE doesnt get screwed over by all of this nerfing.

 

More QQ. Please list the skill that screwed you over and will cause a PvE apocalypse.

 

 

I agree I loved that Force Wave/Overload nailed all opponents in a 360 arc around you. It came in handy when solo and surrounded by enemies. So PvE players like me get screwed because PvPers complained (which they never stop doing).

 

I'm not a huge fan of the Force Wave/Overload change, but I welcome it and understand the need. Why? Firstly, because it will now require some skill to use. Yes, apparently turning and facing your opponent requires skill in this game. lol

 

FW/O is currently very easily spammed without any concern or intent whatsoever. Now players will have to actually think about how they use the skill. So there will be some separation of the droolers from more adept players. I embrace this.

 

Not to mention that the animation dependency has been removed. The skill will now be instant and that's a major boon. By the way, no PvPers complained about this. The assumption that this was changed solely for PvP because of PvP QQ is completely unfounded.

 

And did you read all the notes or just fixate on one change? Assasins/Shadows are getting their DPS buffed, at least Deception/Infiltration specs. Additionally, all JCs are getting a buff to their Force Speed and a lower cooldown on their Force Cloak. Assassins/Shadows will be in a much better place in 1.4.

 

 

This sounds pretty at first..except when you are surrounded by adds, throw overlap and see the adds behind you laughing at best.

 

Honestly, if you lack the ability to move away from PvE mobs and turn and face them for the Knockback, then you should just delete yourself. It's really not hard. In fact, the change is better for endgame raiding because it gives the Player more control over the skill. Now you won't be incidentally breaking CC or haphazardly impacting targets that you didn't intend to hit. More control and precision in a skill is a good thing.

 

 

Overload nerf isn't too much a big deal. 120 degrees in front is a pretty wide zone. And if you're mouse turning (like you're supposed to *coughcough*) then you're used to kite CCing and the like. With a buff to Force Speed, it all evens out, in my opinion.

 

Finally, someone that gets it. +Rep

 

 

Honestly this "balance" is not very good over all for most classes. Very little has been done to change the fact marauders/sentinels and powertech/vanguard are still the only viable dps pvp specs.

 

Exactly. Because those classes are actually balanced based on BW's metrics. Instead of nerfing classes like the QQing bads would want, BW is buffing the classes that need it. This is the better way to balance, although the Merc/Commando DPS ACs still need more love based on the proposed notes.

 

And the whole balance discussion is just a crutch for baddies anyway. This is an MMO. Classes will wax and wane with each new update. Believe it or not, BW knows the PvP metrics better than we or you do. They can easily identify when a class is performing outside of the norm and will bring them back in line, as they have in the past. A lot of what you think is overpowered is really just L2P QQ because players lack skills and knowledge about other classes.

 

I'm not a huge fan of the Force Wave/Overload change, but I welcome it and understand the need. Why? Firstly, because it will now require some skill to use. Yes, apparently turning and facing your opponent requires skill in this game. lol

 

It has nothing to do with skill of turning and facing your enemies. the issue is when you get swarmed as a sage/sorcerer the mobs circle you. Cant exactly knock them all back and escape when you can only hit the ones in a 120 degree arc.

I see based on your sig that this will not affect you, and you have not dealt with it in game. you are being Obtuse

I don't understand what the big deal is about the stun-range nerfs. The only reason a ranged class needs a stun is to prevent a melee player from getting up in their face. At 10 meters, the ranged class is still out of melee range (except for ravage...), and can still stun/run away.

 

Additionally, with sorcs, the overload change isn't that big a deal. Back up, overload, turn around and run away. Besides as a sorc, you shouldn't be in the middle of a melee anyways, as an assassion, you have a lot more mobility (plus reduced force speed CD).

 

Lastly, can someone explain to me how these changes mess up PvE?

To me, they don't seem to be changing DPS or HPS or mitigation, but just CCing and running away.

oO Oh I don't maybe to provide CC, by the time something is at 10m it's effectively in melee range.

"should"/"shouldn't" is a interesting set of words. certain mobs shouldn't agrom from the other side of the map yet they can-

anyway a circular ***** slap had more utility than a con (less chance to mis due to factors outside your control) "Back up, overload, turn around and run away."

Exactly the problem with the change some situations backing up isn't a optimal solution running chould be...

The fact that the devs spent time/money/energy nerfing Sage/Sorc knockback proves how out of touch they are with class balancing especially in regards to PvP.

 

Just wow...

 

I can't believe someone approved this with GW2 just released. Have they ever played a Sorc/Sage in PvP?! Are the devs trying to push their customers away? Because it sure feels like it.

 

For the love of the game, this nerf should not hit live, because it's going to feed more fuel into the unsub fire.

 

I already don't enjoy playing my sage, and this pretty much confirms that I shouldn't play it period.

 

More QQ. Please list the skill that screwed you over and will cause a PvE apocalypse.

 

 

Your elitist attitude says it all, therefore I am not going to bother trying to explain jack to you.

 

As I have said many times PVE and PVP should have different skill trees and skills, the two should never intersect and affect the other.

Edited September 5, 2012 by Tuscad

To everyone who says that the new overload/force wave changes now requires "skill" to use because it obviously just got A LOT harder to knock all the enemies that were attacking you back (since somehow you have to figure out how to get all of these thinking, moving targets in your 120-degree front arc who know you are trying to get them in the frontal arc and trying to avoid it), yes it will require a ton more skill to use. That's certainly true.

 

It is also certainly true that the class is wearing light armor and tends to have less HP, which means it was a low survivability class to start with. As such, the survivability just went down quite a lot with this change. There is no denying this. The stun went from 30m to 10m, which allows classes at range to still hit you while you cannot stun them. Furthermore, snipers can still stun you from 30m. This also reduces the survivability of a class that had issues to start with.

 

In exchange, we got....a moderate instant heal every 30 seconds that also activates the GCD. Healer-spec sorc/sage get their 2-sec force speed to be uninterruptable while DPS sorc/sage don't, and it's only 2 seconds of speed anyway, usually leaving you still within 30m range of the enemy, so they can still attack at range or jump to you afterwards unless you are lucky to LOS them. But if you LOS them, they have also LOS you and you can't kill them either. LOS the enemy isn't a win, but a tie. So, you have to hope for a tie, not a win. Great.....

 

Yes, when looking for a DPS class to join your ranked WZ, I'm sure they'll consider your new 30-sec self-heal ability when thinking about inviting a DPS sorc over that DPS Powertech. LOL It's as if they think RWZ groups don't have healers on the team and so that moderate 30-sec self heal is really worthwhile trade-off.

if people would actually read what they said:

 

In addition, while Overload and Force Wave make for great escape abilities, they have done so previously at a cost to the overall PvP experience. What we want for these abilities is to create distance between you and your target(s), but what frequently occurs is a bad experience for incidental nearby enemies that aren’t your intended target(s).

 

they WANT you to actually have to make a decision, rather than being able to use it without thinking about how it impacts those not your primary focus/target.

 

the change is directly in line with their stated philosophy.

It has nothing to do with skill of turning and facing your enemies. the issue is when you get swarmed as a sage/sorcerer the mobs circle you. Cant exactly knock them all back and escape when you can only hit the ones in a 120 degree arc.

I see based on your sig that this will not affect you, and you have not dealt with it in game. you are being Obtuse

 

Kite just ahead of the train pursuing you, turn to face them (if they savagely pursue you as described), instantly use your Force Wave to knock them all back, and then use your new lower cooldown Force Speed to bolt from them all. How hard is that? lol

 

And I see by your response that you will try every excuse in the book to QQ about the change.

 

 

Your elitist attitude says it all, therefore I am not going to bother trying to explain jack to you.

 

As I have said many times PVE and PVP should have different skill trees and skills, the two should never intersect and affect the other.

 

i.e. I have no argument and just like to QQ.

 

It has nothing to do with elitism. The question is very basic and simple. You have no answer because there isn't one.

 

 

To everyone who says that the new overload/force wave changes now requires "skill" to use because it obviously just got A LOT harder to knock all the enemies that were attacking you back

 

That's missing the point of the change. The point of the change wasn't to require more skill in using Force Wave/Overload. The point was to bring more precision and control to the skill. The current implementation is spammy and haphazard in both PvE and PvP. Now you will have more determination on what targets you hit with FW and where those targets go after knocking them back. The change makes complete sense in that regard.

Edited September 5, 2012 by DarthOvertone