The only time I pass is when I'm running with friends, guildies or lowbies and think they'll benefit more than me.

 

I pass all the time, not because I am nice, but because I am too lazy to go sell most of the crap that drops.

 

Although running with fresh endgame players I pass even on the good stuff. So I am not completely selfish and selfcentered.

Kind of what I meant by "lowbies"

Yep agree with OP. I don't do pug HM FP's anymore. Will only do them with Guildies.

You have the Completely wrong gender there.

 

and yeah i have a right to insult them if they insulted me by basically saying im incompetent. and no one in a GAME should have to deal with that. its a game. not real life. it shouldnt be this harsh of an environment.

 

 

You sound like a little brat and I would have kicked you faster than your group did. Also, good job taking the moral high ground by trading insults with them.

You sound like a little brat and I would have kicked you faster than your group did. Also, good job taking the moral high ground by trading insults with them.

Did you read the first post on the thread? The one that described the situation that resulted in the vote-kick?

Did you read the first post on the thread? The one that described the situation that resulted in the vote-kick?

 

Every single word.

 

If someone thinks that there is tension in the group and wants to have a chill and relaxed time, saying hello and striking up conversation helps change the pace of the flashpoint. OP didn't do that, from what I can infer. Furthermore, the attitude of his post sucked and I would assess that his attitude during the FP sucked as well.

 

Pulling random mobs and killing the group is borderline unacceptable: aggro range doesn't change just because you are in a flashpoint, look around and use common sense.

 

Being that he was new and wanted to watch every single conversation, he should have stated that to the rest of the group from the get-go. I would never kick someone for being honest about that, but I might leave and spend my time better elsewhere.

 

I suspect that his group kicked him not only for wasting their time, being undergeared, pulling random mobs and getting them killed...but also for not communicating their needs to the group. He also stated that he has been kicked multiple times (every HM flashpoint he has been in, I believe) so its hard to believe every single one of those groups were just elitist.

 

The best part of his entire post is that people's actions in SWTOR are making him give up his hope for humanity. I LOL'd.

Your interpretation of what happened is quite different from mine.

 

I'm the type of player that has the speedrun down cold. I've been playing for over a year, I have 9 level 50s (4 at 55) and have run the L50 flashpoints often enough that I can run them in my sleep. I know practically every way to skip mobs (and bosses where possible) and will spacebar with the best of them.

 

At the same time, if I noticed someone was lagging behind on a skip attempt, it would be perfectly obvious to me that we either had a) a new player or b) someone who didn't know how to skip.

 

I would promptly go back and give them some help, and show them what to do. Skipping the mobs by the D7 tents? I've watched guildies in vent have a hard time making those jumps. Having a hard time skipping those mobs in a pug? Completely understandable, so let's help the newbie out and not treat them like garbage.

 

What I see from the OP's situation, is 3 other people who have no patience for the new player, and deliberately put her in a situation that would result in being a problem for the group, just so they could initiate a vote-kick.

 

I remember way back, the first time I saw someone do the "exhaustion zone skip" on Battle of Ilum. I had no idea what was going on, tried to follow, the group zipped off ahead, I died. Asked for them to wait, they didn't, I tried again, fell off the ledge, pulled a mob, and I got raged at.

 

I was perfectly happy to skip and do a speedrun. Yet this impatient Scheißekopf made it impossible for me to do so, and arrogantly treated me like a newb fool trying to screw the group over.

 

The fact that the others in DSpecter's group let her fall behind and wouldn't wait for her to catch up says it all to me. They were already annoyed that someone didn't know how to skip the mobs, that it wasn't going to be the fast speedrun they had hoped for, and were itching for the first excuse to kick them out.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Khevar

I never understand the point to take a 10 seconds detour to avoid something you'll need 10 seconds to kill if your DPS doesn't suck. In the time it takes someone to scavenge/bioanalysis stuff (and people do that all the time) you could easily clear the next pack of mobs, which is likely to have something else to scavenge/bioanalysis anyway.

I never understand the point to take a 10 seconds detour to avoid something you'll need 10 seconds to kill if your DPS doesn't suck. In the time it takes someone to scavenge/bioanalysis stuff (and people do that all the time) you could easily clear the next pack of mobs, which is likely to have something else to scavenge/bioanalysis anyway.

 

my thoughts, exactly.

Your interpretation of what happened is quite different from mine.

 

I'm the type of player that has the speedrun down cold. I've been playing for over a year, I have 9 level 50s (4 at 55) and have run the L50 flashpoints often enough that I can run them in my sleep. I know practically every way to skip mobs (and bosses where possible) and will spacebar with the best of them.

 

At the same time, if I noticed someone was lagging behind on a skip attempt, it would be perfectly obvious to me that we either had a) a new player or b) someone who didn't know how to skip.

 

I would promptly go back and give them some help, and show them what to do. Skipping the mobs by the D7 tents? I've watched guildies in vent have a hard time making those jumps. Having a hard time skipping those mobs in a pug? Completely understandable, so let's help the newbie out and not treat them like garbage.

 

What I see from the OP's situation, is 3 other people who have no patience for the new player, and deliberately put her in a situation that would result in being a problem for the group, just so they could initiate a vote-kick.

 

I remember way back, the first time I saw someone do the "exhaustion zone skip" on Battle of Ilum. I had no idea what was going on, tried to follow, the group zipped off ahead, I died. Asked for them to wait, they didn't, I tried again, fell off the ledge, pulled a mob, and I got raged at.

 

I was perfectly happy to skip and do a speedrun. Yet this impatient Scheißekopf made it impossible for me to do so, and arrogantly treated me like a newb fool trying to screw the group over.

 

The fact that the others in DSpecter's group let her fall behind and wouldn't wait for her to catch up says it all to me. They were already annoyed that someone didn't know how to skip the mobs, that it wasn't going to be the fast speedrun they had hoped for, and were itching for the first excuse to kick them out.

 

I can already tell by the way you phrase your argument that you are more logical than the OP. Furthermore you seem like the type that likes to communicate rather than suffer in silence and further hinder the group. So in your case, no, I wouldn't vote kick. But I would still vote kick the OP based on his attitude at the situation (In addition to the myriad of situations he put his group). I'm willing to work with people when they make their intentions and situation clear from the start; I've done a full clear of Battle of Ilum on my 55 when requested while queing for the basic comms.

 

TL:DR - You have a respectable opinion, and I have no quarrel with you

people these days... last one to say 'sorry for pull' and 'i'm new here, help me', first to post whiny threads...

I usualy type few times things about kill order and such, when I'm on my tank I just deal with it and focus on helping the healer, when I heal, I just let that trigger happy dps die if he starts pulling random things or breaking mezzes...

 

every one makes mistakes, every one was new at some point, but atleast say 'sorry', I always apologise if some one dies at my fault. Always apologise if I broke cc or pulled trash from other group causing havoc or wipe. Never got raged at. why?

Cause I said 'I'm sorry'. It looses tension.

When someone did something stupid and made small pull into hell, and I want to say something rude, he says 'sorry guys', I know he made mistake and he knows it. If same happens but dps pretends like nothing happens and continues on doing that? I wait for them to die few times

 

Never done story mode of L 55 hm, low level flash points during leveling is not my thing. I asked as tank 'what should I whatch out, first time here, bear with me'. got polite answear from random pugs. (actualy got raged at once by a healer who complained he had to heal me as he used to heal everything with just one heal button, he quitted, and we cleared that HM with his undergeared replacment-but that doesn't count, as it wasnt my fault, just healers weird imagination I was supposed to be immortal)

Edited April 30, 2013 by Atramar

Never done story mode of L 55 hm, low level flash points during leveling is not my thing. I asked as tank 'what should I whatch out, first time here, bear with me'. got polite answear from random pugs. (actualy got raged at once by a healer who complained he had to heal me as he used to heal everything with just one heal button, he quitted, and we cleared that HM with his undergeared replacment-but that doesn't count, as it wasnt my fault, just healers weird imagination I was supposed to be immortal)

 

Exactly that... I started the 55s bit alter than others, as I wanted first to craft new gear and experience Makeb with all the chars But, once I started doing them, I always told people that I'm new in this. Never got kicked out or yelled, even if some pulls went wrong (Cademinu police blockade or the droids in Athiss) and ended in wipe. People did help with explaining tactics and slowed down a bit, so I could learn the pulls and the FPs - and those were PUG groups. I believe, that if I'd pretend that I'm veteran and cause wipe after wipe, I'd hit the door quite fast.

While I'll admit that the OP likely made mistakes, both in-game and here, a lot of what I've read in this thread is entitlement at its best (worst?): people think that just because they've done content to death and can speedrun through things, everyone else should be able/willing to as well, and that they're "terrible" or "noobish" for not. I'll admit to being far from "pro" in most of the game's content--I have yet to do the new 55 op or the 55 upgrade to TfB, never had time to do the HMs of EC or TfB or any of the NiMs in 1.x, and I've never really put much time into HM FPs simply because I never really cared enough--but on the rare bits of content that I DO know completely what I'm doing, I'm more than willing to help other people in my group whether they voice the fact that they need it from the get-go or not. That's what being part of a team is all about, when it comes down to it.

 

Partly, this comes from the fact that I'm a weirdo when it comes to internet anonymity. Most people use it to be total jerks with no repercussions, I try to be better than I am IRL because I can take time to formulate my reactions. C'est la vie, and all that.

 

But anyway, I've had similar experiences to the OP, and while some of them were at least partially my fault, not all of it has been. Preface to all this: my wife and I usually run through the game together just to have SOME guaranteed help that'll be understanding when we eff up. Our schedules are limited, so we don't have time (or even the desire) to run everything and get pro at it; we run stuff based on the end rewards and how any bit of content will help us get what we want without driving us crazy or boring us to tears along the way. Anyway, a few examples of things I've experienced similar to the OP include:

 

1. the first time we ever managed to get all the way to Kephess on an EC run, I had no real idea what the mechanics were and, to some degree or other, caused the group to wipe. I'll admit that, it's not a big deal to me to do so anymore. What WAS a big deal was that the group, despite knowing that my wife and I had never fought Kephess before, only gave moderate explanations of the mechanics to us before strategizing amongst themselves--and when we wiped, I was made to feel about two inches tall for my part in it. Personally, I'm with the OP here: this is a game, and people shouldn't get so worked up over it even when things go bad. My best experiences in raids and such have been groups that just laugh off their/our failures and figure out how to improve on the next attempt.

2. eventually, we decided to start doing HM FPs pretty much just long enough to get the Aratech Ice achievement done. We did LI and MP HM with a couple friends, and even though LI went terribly (my wife and I had literally just finished the SM version hours before and were still fairly green on the FP), we laughed it off and moved on. A day or two later, though, we started pugging groups for the other ops. We literally had someone in an Esseles group AND an FE group order us to spacebar things at one point; I'll admit, I wasn't used to doing that yet since I'm in this game for the story and don't generally skip things, and I'll also admit that Esseles would take a long time without it, but copping an attitude right from the start just because someone's force-of-habit takes over isn't a good way to build camaraderie (if anyone really cares about such things anymore). By contrast, another FE group we did was made up of relative noobs (knew what they were doing but didn't have the best gear in the world) who were some of the friendliest people we've met, and I'd much rather run a group with that variety of player than the most uber-leet players on my server if the uber-leets are gonna be jerks about everything.

3. later had a group that we ran D7 with that, while not a terrible run, was just tense. We introduced ourselves right off the bat and made it clear that we hadn't run D7 in a while, and never on HM...and the other two players just ignored us. They never said a word, they never waited for us, they just plowed ahead through all the shortcuts they already knew, forcing my wife and me to struggle just to keep up with them. We never wiped, never pulled any trash we didn't need to, and ultimately made good time through the FP...but it wasn't even remotely fun because the other two players made things so tense.

4. I ultimately did the last 3 FPs for the speeder on my own since my wife had other things to do at the time. Did T5 and Kaon back-to-back (I'd stopped caring about Group Finder rewards by then and just wanted to get done) and had an absolute blast even though Kaon was one of my least favorite FPs--because the groups I got were both talkative between fights and forgiving when mistakes were made.

5. later, however, I finished the achievement with a return to Battle of Ilum. This group was jerkish beyond anything I'd seen yet. I once again saw a repeat of people taking shortcuts without waiting up; I ended up dying twice--once to the exhaustion zone (one person of the three came back to res me, everyone else just powered through) and once to trash that I pulled while trying to keep up. I might've been able to take them at full HP, but I was far from full since I couldn't take time to heal without risking the rest of the group leaving me behind; the others didn't come back to help until I was dead, and the only thing I got was a "stop dying lol" while I was being ressed again.

 

Mostly, though, my problems with the group's attitude revolved around their interactions with each other. One of them literally called for a "f---ing Guard" from the tank at one point, while the healer kept throwing around ****s and swears any time anyone made any little mistake on the shortcuts in the second half. Worst part, though? After killing the first boss we couldn't skip (the next-to-last one, I think), a Jedi Battlelord piece dropped. Everyone else hit Greed but the tank, who hit Need. The healer Sage went nuts at this point and initiated a vote to kick; I abstained since I just wanted to get done, but the tank left anyway (either by vote or by choice, not sure which), and we ended up making an unsuccessful run on the last boss (again, I won't sugarcoat that it was my fault on that wipe because I forgot the boss's mechanics without realizing it) before another tank joined up from the queue.

 

Let me clarify for a moment that our group's initial composition was me (a Sentinel), a healer Sage, another Jedi dps that I can't recall (pretty sure it was another Sage), and a Guardian tank. I didn't want the Battlelord look for my Scourge and din't care enough about any of my alst to hit Need to get the piece for any of them (I don't play that way, anyway), and nobody else on the team had reason to hit Need for either themselves or a companion--but the Guardian could actually USE the Battlelord piece that dropped. So for all intents and purposes, the tank was griped at and eventually forced out because he hit Need on something he actually NEEDED.

 

So yes, I DO believe that a decent chunk of y'all need an attitude adjustment when it comes to this kind of thing. Sure, people like me and the OP make mistakes, and I'll fully admit fault when I do...but so what? It's no reason to go thermonuclear on us; this, first and foremost, is still a GAME, and it's supposed to be fun for EVERYONE playing it, not just you. Any of you that honestly think otherwise probably need to re-evaluate your priorities.

 

TL;DR version: Op goofed a couple times, get over it and learn to roll with it when things go wrong instead of throwing a gripe-storm.

The only time I advocated skipping mob was yesterday on Mandolorian Raiders with undergeared tank and healer and I know we're going to wipe once on each set of turrets of doom so we skipped every set that can be skipped (and wiped once on every set that cannot be skipped).

 

I think it's an oxymoron people claim to be awesome and skip stuff, because doing great DPS is supposed to be a requisite for awesomeness, and when you do enough DPS, sometimes it's quicker to clear the stuff than skipping it because charge is the fastest way to travel forward. In a great DPS group we usually can start clearing the next pack just as the scavenger/bioanalysis finishes the last pack, and since we got to wait for that guy (there's almost always one of those guys), why not clear the stuff?

Well, I finally got kicked from my first group. It's not a particularly interesting story, but decided to share it.

 

Group pops (I'm heals), and I port in, along with two other members, who are in the same guild. The final group member, however, takes about 10 minutes to get inside. Since the other members don't seem upset, I deduce there's a good chance the last guy is their guildmate (he was), so I just sit there patiently.

 

We run through the first boss, kill him with no problem, when the same person that took 10 minutes to enter the FP now goes afk without a word. After a few minutes I ask "What are we waiting on?" and get the response of "he'll be back". Couple minutes later he gets back and we continue on. Not much had been said in party chat, and I guess they are on VOIP, but we have no problems the entire time, and not a single person has died at all.

 

About halfway though the FP, one of them (i believe the guy that went AFK two different times, but I'm not sure) initiates a vote kick on me with the very descriptive reason of "gay" (drats, I should have reported him for descriminating comments). Hoping the guy was just messing around, or at least hoping he was the only idiot in their guild, I waited, but I knew what was coming. It turns out, being a tool is contagious, and he had spread his disease to his guildmates (or, to be fair, perhaps he is the one who contracted the disease from them).

 

Nevertheless, they have cost me the ability to accurately claim that I've never been kicked from a group. They've taken something from me that I can never get back. I'm not sure what to do with my life now, but I'll try to pick up the pieces and move on.

 

I guess Illuminati on Prophecy of the Five really are Illuminati!

Group pops (I'm heals).... It turns out, being a tool is contagious, and he had spread his disease to his guildmates (or, to be fair, perhaps he is the one who contracted the disease from them).

 

Put them on ignore and console yourself with the fact that the DPS HM queue times just got longer

 

I tanked Hammer Station last night with a very well geared Sentinel who pulled every trash group and barked orders in chat every two minutes (accompanied by a million exclamation marks each time). I let it go because I couldn't be bothered with the drama but the first thing I did at completion was add the idiot to ignore. I'm a tank, my groups pop instantly every time. When I play DPS I often have to wait for anything up to an hour. His loss.

Put them on ignore and console yourself with the fact that the DPS HM queue times just got longer

 

I tanked Hammer Station last night with a very well geared Sentinel who pulled every trash group and barked orders in chat every two minutes (accompanied by a million exclamation marks each time). I let it go because I couldn't be bothered with the drama but the first thing I did at completion was add the idiot to ignore. I'm a tank, my groups pop instantly every time. When I play DPS I often have to wait for anything up to an hour. His loss.

 

Today I got two well geared DPS for my group and I died way more often than I ever did because being geared DPS apparently means the first target you attack is whatever I just mind trapped, and since I'm still more than capable of holding aggro from these DPS, I ended up taking way more damage than I normally do.

 

Honestly I think sometimes it'd be a good lesson to let any DPS pull all the trash and see how fast 5 droids in Athiss or 5 dogs in Cademimu chews you up. Maybe they'll at least learn not to attack the mind trapped target first.

Today I got two well geared DPS for my group and I died way more often than I ever did because being geared DPS apparently means the first target you attack is whatever I just mind trapped, and since I'm still more than capable of holding aggro from these DPS, I ended up taking way more damage than I normally do.

 

Honestly I think sometimes it'd be a good lesson to let any DPS pull all the trash and see how fast 5 droids in Athiss or 5 dogs in Cademimu chews you up. Maybe they'll at least learn not to attack the mind trapped target first.

 

when I tank, and have happy jumpers, usualy talk on /p something like 'damn, you are like super computer dps' to get their attention, and when they thank me for complement, I add 'shame there was no room for kill order priority, it would be perfect (weak->strong->elite->champion)' (I should macro that)

 

on healer letting one dps die from time to time is good way to train them. Like a puppy. Can't beat them, but punishment from time to time is a good thing.

when I tank, and have happy jumpers, usualy talk on /p something like 'damn, you are like super computer dps' to get their attention, and when they thank me for complement, I add 'shame there was no room for kill order priority, it would be perfect (weak->strong->elite->champion)' (I should macro that)

 

on healer letting one dps die from time to time is good way to train them. Like a puppy. Can't beat them, but punishment from time to time is a good thing.

 

Yea you got a good system there. I kind of take it a step further though.

 

As a healer, I do the same thing you do. I let the DPS die if they think they are the tank.

 

As a tank, if the DPS pulls before me, I let them tank it and resume going at a fast pace. Basically I force the healer to spend their resources on me or the pulling DPS. If I die, I just leave and make them wait 2 hours for a new tank.

 

Honestly the true source of most group problem stems from DPS. I got 5 level 50's and 8 55's. In all my time doing FP's, I met maybe 8 DPS that actually used their interrupt skill.

I think it's just the element that are running HM's right now. They're the progressionist elitiest types for the most part. The kind that think they're the shizzle cause they run ops and had the resources to gear up fast. I don't think you're average player type are queing up that much yet. Probably still leveling or trying to gear up enough.

Yea you got a good system there. I kind of take it a step further though.

 

As a healer, I do the same thing you do. I let the DPS die if they think they are the tank.

 

As a tank, if the DPS pulls before me, I let them tank it and resume going at a fast pace. Basically I force the healer to spend their resources on me or the pulling DPS. If I die, I just leave and make them wait 2 hours for a new tank.

 

Honestly the true source of most group problem stems from DPS. I got 5 level 50's and 8 55's. In all my time doing FP's, I met maybe 8 DPS that actually used their interrupt skill.

 

For me, that tank thing you do is to much, as it punishes healer and other dps that could not do anything wrong.

On healer you can choose who will die (my friend actually made dps apologise to her when she refused to heal him after he complained on her clicking 'confirm' to slow lol) without punishing other 2 members of team, and that thing I do on tank actually works. DPS epeen is being fed (that part when I complement them for their dps) , I'm sure I have their attention on party chat (they say thanks), and lesson learnt (when I mention he would be superb if he kept killing order). It's a win-win (sometimes removing guard works)

Old thread, I know, but I think I'll add in this:

 

WHAT?! You dare try and have FUN in a GAME?! What is this madness...

 

In all seriousness, they have no reason to be mad at you. People learn from experience. And wouldn't kicking you more hinder them, rather than help them?

 

In short, I agree. People should be more polite in group work.

 

PS- Was it Directive 7 hard mode flashpoint?

For DPS I always have the philsophy of 'don't break CC on anything you can't tank and kill'. If I broke CC on a strong mob while I"m on a DPS I am prepared to used my CD to kill and tank it solo, and even as hard as the strong mobs hit for this is still quite easy. And since I can't reliably solo an elite mob in FP while tanking it, I don't attack elite mobs first. In fact when you have say a 5 dog pack, it's probably easier on the healer if the tank tanks 3 while the 2 DPS each tank one, since all 5 dogs on the same guy can be way too much DPS to handle. Of course you really should just CC 2 but if you have to tank 5, splitting them 3/1/1 is often safer than having the tank get all 5. If a DPS is doing damage to the wrong target, by definition he should have aggro anyway, and if he can kill that mob solo (and he should be able to) at least there's no immediate harm. The real harm is the DPS who breaks CC (usually via AE) but don't actually DPS the wrong targets, leaving the tank stuck with the concentrated DPS of all the mobs.

My 2 cents. When I was a fresh lvl 50 dps doing hm fp. I always say "Hi, this is my 1st time here, I really appreciate any advice" And everyone was very helpful and explained the fight to me . Saying "sorry" after a bad pull or accidenly break CC is the proper manner. Sometimes we wiped and gave up the fp but people wasn't mad at each other. Just start with "hello, howdy etc" at the start of the fp can improve the communication part later. On my 2nd toon as a tank, I have exp from playing the dps so thing went pretty smooth. if some1 haven't gotten to lvl 55 in the group. I will ask full run or quick run before we start. And ask "everyone know the fight?" or give a quick explanation before every boss fight. Got a lot of friend thx to chatting while doing fp ( even in terribad fp run )