Well, it's too late now, what's done is done. Some people rerolled, others unsubbed, third are still sweating a lot to remain viable in end-game PvE..

It'll take months to gather solid data on the current performance and HPS meters and they would more likely nerf Mercs and Ops rather than buff Sorcs.. Just making the game less and less fun for ppl that enjoy healing

Well, it's too late now, what's done is done. Some people rerolled, others unsubbed, third are still sweating a lot to remain viable in end-game PvE..

 

It'll take months to gather solid data on the current performance and HPS meters and they would more likely nerf Mercs and Ops rather than buff Sorcs.. Just making the game less and less fun for ppl that enjoy healing

Nightmare raiding has certainly had a change in character after these adjustments. There's a marked difference in PvP performance as well, because Sorcs' raid healing now mostly consists of bubbling people. I can still make do in both PvE and PvP, but I constantly feel like I am getting carried quite hard. During raids it can be a little depressing to check Starparse's raid window.

In full 248's I feel like I am healing naked. I have a Scoundrel/ Op healer in 224's that are better healers at this point. I am going to have to raid with them, which I think is what they wanted us to do.

You are either lying about your operative (in that gear) healing more effectively than your sorc. Or you are very bad at sorc healing. Not trying to be mean, but sorcs are still certainly viable and in some ways more viable than operative healers still

You are either lying about your operative (in that gear) healing more effectively than your sorc. Or you are very bad at sorc healing. Not trying to be mean, but sorcs are still certainly viable and in some ways more viable than operative healers still

No they're not.

No they're not.

Aw, is your main no longer the best healer in the game? Poor you. Sorc heals can still clear all content. Maybe you'll run into some problems with AoE healing if you go double sorc heal, but apart from that they're pretty okay. (I do really think that Revivication should get some buffs, possible beyond what it was before the nerf even)

Glad I invested wisely this patch on what lolz alts to gear with hand me downs for funsies and made my Merc a healer and my Sorc a meme DPS for meme runs dodged a bullet with that one. Well for now cause they will adjust Merc healing and Op healing as well (as they should) xd

Personally, I don't really like Sorc healing that much too spammy on one ability for resource gen and stuff and now every third GCD for resource gen lol. Maybe I prefer ramping style cause I play BHs lol.

Aw, is your main no longer the best healer in the game? Poor you. Sorc heals can still clear all content. Maybe you'll run into some problems with AoE healing if you go double sorc heal, but apart from that they're pretty okay. (I do really think that Revivication should get some buffs, possible beyond what it was before the nerf even)

This is, approximately, what the current situation is in my opinion too. The raw healing ability for Nightmare raids is still there, but whenever I heal with a Merc or an Op, I do feel like I am getting carried quite a bit. PvP is frustrating, because the single target burst is nothing to write home about and the raid healing is quite bad. However, I think it's mostly a matter of getting adjusted to the changes. After all, you don't overcome months of gameplay instincts in a few raids. Curious to see what the forthcoming changes for Mercs and Ops are and how that will change the balance. Personally I believe they will be toned down too, given that all classes have the same HPS target.

This is, approximately, what the current situation is in my opinion too. The raw healing ability for Nightmare raids is still there, but whenever I heal with a Merc or an Op, I do feel like I am getting carried quite a bit. PvP is frustrating, because the single target burst is nothing to write home about and the raid healing is quite bad. However, I think it's mostly a matter of getting adjusted to the changes. After all, you don't overcome months of gameplay instincts in a few raids. Curious to see what the forthcoming changes for Mercs and Ops are and how that will change the balance. Personally I believe they will be toned down too, given that all classes have the same HPS target.

you can't set the same total hps target (as seen in the optimal gearing thread for exemple) for all 3 class, since they are all wildly different. Operative, for exemple have significant output advantage, but HoTs by their very nature tend to end up overhealing. Now an 8 person aoe, and a 4 person HoT, + the probe which need to be placed pro-actively to cover serious damage spike means an operative healer the way they are must be producing a lot more raw hps to get similar EHPS numbers, as the rate might be 70% EHPS for operative, vs 90% for sorc.

you can't set the same total hps target (as seen in the optimal gearing thread for exemple) for all 3 class, since they are all wildly different. Operative, for exemple have significant output advantage, but HoTs by their very nature tend to end up overhealing. Now an 8 person aoe, and a 4 person HoT, + the probe which need to be placed pro-actively to cover serious damage spike means an operative healer the way they are must be producing a lot more raw hps to get similar EHPS numbers, as the rate might be 70% EHPS for operative, vs 90% for sorc.

Yes, I know. However, in the first post of this very thread it was stated that the target HPS is the same for healing specs. More specifically, I am talking about this part of the opening post:

We say the target HPS instead of their target HPS because all three healers have the same target HPS. In future balance patches, the other healers can expect to see changes to their healing capabilities as well to ensure they are in line with the target.

When you say the classes have different healing mechanics and HPS profiles, you are absolutely correct. For whatever reason the HPS targets are the same for all classes and if Bioware seriously meant that, it could spell big trouble for Operatives in the future.

Aw, is your main no longer the best healer in the game? Poor you. Sorc heals can still clear all content. Maybe you'll run into some problems with AoE healing if you go double sorc heal, but apart from that they're pretty okay. (I do really think that Revivication should get some buffs, possible beyond what it was before the nerf even)

Peeps have main's in this game? I raid with all the healer's. Its all I play. The saage/sorc nerf went way too far. To output the same amount of HPS/Ehps as the otherr 2 healers, sage's/sorc's need to be @ >15 apm's. that is a 38% reduction in their healing output. How can you say, that they are pretty ok? Run one through a nim op, and let me know if you still have that opinion.

Also, Scoundrels/Op healers were the best healers in the game and still are, not sage's/sorc's. There goes that huh? Don't mistake burst healing for best. But don't worry they took that away so all good now. You can pvp.

Peeps have main's in this game? I raid with all the healer's. Its all I play. The saage/sorc nerf went way too far. To output the same amount of HPS/Ehps as the otherr 2 healers, sage's/sorc's need to be @ >15 apm's. that is a 38% reduction in their healing output. How can you say, that they are pretty ok? Run one through a nim op, and let me know if you still have that opinion.

 

Also, Scoundrels/Op healers were the best healers in the game and still are, not sage's/sorc's. There goes that huh? Don't mistake burst healing for best. But don't worry they took that away so all good now. You can pvp.

Glad to hear that I'm not the only one with 3 characters, which are all healers But I think it's just me, you, and at most a few other people left who play all three healers, so people just can't see the nerf from our point of view - a SWTOR healer's point of view, not just a Sorc/Sage-only healer player with 5 DPS alts that they play more // people whose 8th alt is a Sorc/Sage // people that couldn't easily kill a Sorc in PvP.

For the Scoundrel/Op, I couldn't agree more: sustain healing is a must (healer-wise) in PvE end-game content in any MMORPG.

Yes, I know. However, in the first post of this very thread it was stated that the target HPS is the same for healing specs. More specifically, I am talking about this part of the opening post:

 

 

When you say the classes have different healing mechanics and HPS profiles, you are absolutely correct. For whatever reason the HPS targets are the same for all classes and if Bioware seriously meant that, it could spell big trouble for Operatives in the future.

This is what I am thinking. As it is I don't see how Op/Scoundrel healers are going to endure this. They have to do so much over healing. Will they just redesign all the healing for these disciplines? I doubt it.

Maybe I am way off and everything will be fine. But it looks very dubious to me now.

 

Also, Scoundrels/Op healers were the best healers in the game and still are, not sage's/sorc's. There goes that huh? Don't mistake burst healing for best. But don't worry they took that away so all good now. You can pvp.

Operative hasn't been the best healer since 3.0 changes. Sure it has good AoE and sustained, but sustained hps is rarely a problem. Burst damage is what kills people in both pvp and pve, not sustained damage. Sorcs could easily rival an operatives EHPS before, and that's without counting the shielding done with static barrier. There's a reason about 50% of all healers were sorcs in pve (from starparse stats) and probably way over that in pvp. If you really think Sorcs weren't by far the best healers before the nerf, I don't see the point discussing this at all

Operative hasn't been the best healer since 3.0 changes. Sure it has good AoE and sustained, but sustained hps is rarely a problem. Burst damage is what kills people in both pvp and pve, not sustained damage. Sorcs could easily rival an operatives EHPS before, and that's without counting the shielding done with static barrier. There's a reason about 50% of all healers were sorcs in pve (from starparse stats) and probably way over that in pvp. If you really think Sorcs weren't by far the best healers before the nerf, I don't see the point discussing this at all

I couldn't agree more.

I kinda feel Operatives got sort of screwed back in 3.0, starting for their "new" ability.

Sorcs and mercs got truly powerful abilities, which should be used pretty much on cooldown. Kolto Waves ? meh... It's situational at best, and personally, I feel I'm shooting myself in the foot every time I use it since there's a good chance someone's kolto probe stacks will fall off, not only because of its long channel but also because it requires almost a third of your total energy.

The way I see it, operatives biggest strength can totally be overlooked since the other two classes have more than enough for group healing. But you can't ignore its weakness.

Like others have mentioned, 5.4 doesn't bode well for operative healing. All 3 classess with the same HPS target ?

That could very well mean a bigger nerf than the one sorcs got.

I guess I can hope nice things for 6.0 for my operative, lol

I have given up on trying to play my Corruption sorcs. Useless in a group now. Thank you BW, I was starting to almost have fun learning to do ops. That can't be allowed.

Screw this.

Operative hasn't been the best healer since 3.0 changes. Sure it has good AoE and sustained, but sustained hps is rarely a problem. Burst damage is what kills people in both pvp and pve, not sustained damage. Sorcs could easily rival an operatives EHPS before, and that's without counting the shielding done with static barrier. There's a reason about 50% of all healers were sorcs in pve (from starparse stats) and probably way over that in pvp. If you really think Sorcs weren't by far the best healers before the nerf, I don't see the point discussing this at all

The reason over 50% of all healers on sp were sorcs was not because they were better healers it was because

1. Out of the 3 they are the easiest to play.

2. Peeps mistake their burst healing for being the best.

3. They carried a light saber and can shoot cool purple lightning.

And since you brought up SP, the highest numbered healer in most hm/nim ops on SP are Op healers not sorcs. It is mainly because they can do so much more then the one trick burst healing sorc. Once they took the burst away, they became useless. They had nothing else to fall back on. No hots, no aoe's, nothing. And their shield you are talking up so much, it equals, what, about a 15k heal at best? Please. that doesn't even touch one of the other two's hot's. So save it.

Also I never cared if they were the "best" or not. I just want them to be playable still in pve. In their current state, they are not. The nerf went way to far.

 

Also I never cared if they were the "best" or not. I just want them to be playable still in pve. In their current state, they are not. The nerf went way to far.

That. Just that.

Also, Scoundrels/Op healers were the best healers in the game and still are, not sage's/sorc's. There goes that huh? Don't mistake burst healing for best. But don't worry they took that away so all good now. You can pvp.

I have all 3 healers and have been raiding nim with all of them as well. I find it really hard to understand how you believe this statement to be true. Not trying to attack you but I would love to run with a scoundrel/op through some nim content against my mando and see the actual numbers to back this statement up.

Are they viable for nim content, in the right hands, absolutely. Do they require a little more attention than pre nerf sages, yup. Would I consider them better than the other two classes, not even close.

The biggest problem, imo, has always been *how* they heal, not how much they heal. Their output has always been fine, but it's the reactive healing vs proactive healing that's always bothered me. The only time a scoundrel can really shine, is when there is massive, sustained, raid wide damage. I can only think of a couple of fights where that is useful. Most of the nim content is based around spike damage and small amounts of raid damage, which the other 2 healers can handle better and quicker than a scoundrel/op.

Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy scoundrel/op healing more so than the other 2, but without some QOL changes to how they heal, I just don't see the point in bringing one. Given their output potential has always been above the other 2 classes (though most of it is completely wasted on over heal and not recommended is nim raiding), I can see a nerf to output to bring things into line with post nerf sages, mando as well for that matter.

But I would love to be proved wrong and if someone wants to set up a run with their scoundrel/op, I would be happy to see it out heal my mando across a full raid.

As for the topic at hand, healing has been overtuned for pve raiding for a long time now and I have no problem with the devs pulling things back into line. As long as it's consistent across all 3 classes. The only way the sage nerf is too much, is if they do nothing to the other classes. Nerfing mandos will be a must, but if they nerf the output of the scoundrel/ops without changing some QoL things, I feel scoundrels may be the class left behind. Again.

I have all 3 healers and have been raiding nim with all of them as well. I find it really hard to understand how you believe this statement to be true. Not trying to attack you but I would love to run with a scoundrel/op through some nim content against my mando and see the actual numbers to back this statement up.

 

Are they viable for nim content, in the right hands, absolutely. Do they require a little more attention than pre nerf sages, yup. Would I consider them better than the other two classes, not even close.

 

The biggest problem, imo, has always been *how* they heal, not how much they heal. Their output has always been fine, but it's the reactive healing vs proactive healing that's always bothered me. The only time a scoundrel can really shine, is when there is massive, sustained, raid wide damage. I can only think of a couple of fights where that is useful. Most of the nim content is based around spike damage and small amounts of raid damage, which the other 2 healers can handle better and quicker than a scoundrel/op.

 

Don't get me wrong, I actually enjoy scoundrel/op healing more so than the other 2, but without some QOL changes to how they heal, I just don't see the point in bringing one. Given their output potential has always been above the other 2 classes (though most of it is completely wasted on over heal and not recommended is nim raiding), I can see a nerf to output to bring things into line with post nerf sages, mando as well for that matter.

 

But I would love to be proved wrong and if someone wants to set up a run with their scoundrel/op, I would be happy to see it out heal my mando across a full raid.

 

As for the topic at hand, healing has been overtuned for pve raiding for a long time now and I have no problem with the devs pulling things back into line. As long as it's consistent across all 3 classes. The only way the sage nerf is too much, is if they do nothing to the other classes. Nerfing mandos will be a must, but if they nerf the output of the scoundrel/ops without changing some QoL things, I feel scoundrels may be the class left behind. Again.

As you say, a problem with Operative healing is just how they heal. As they are at the moment, I feel they are an excellent addition to a raid team, but I would rather not go through NiM content with two Operative healers. They do, however, have excellent synergy with the other two classes. And in case you don't have a DPS Operative in the group, the raid buff is a nice bonus as well.

I also share your concern about the future of Operative healing. If their HPS goes down to the Sorcs' current level (as implied by Bioware's opening post here), they are likely to be in very big trouble. I sure hope that doesn't happen.