Seriously. Getting tired of sitting (or watching my other tank buddy sit) on almost every fight with tight DPS requirements. We're both Juggernauts, so even if we respecced for DPS our output would suck.

 

I don't want to have to reroll Sniper, but it's what I'm probably going to end up doing at this rate.

Seriously. Getting tired of sitting (or watching my other tank buddy sit) on almost every fight with tight DPS requirements. We're both Juggernauts, so even if we respecced for DPS our output would suck.

 

I don't want to have to reroll Sniper, but it's what I'm probably going to end up doing at this rate.

 

Seriously, who wants fights that need 1 tank. Every fight should be like bonethrasher.

 

That's what you meant, right?

Seriously, who wants fights that need 1 tank. Every fight should be like bonethrasher.

 

That's what you meant, right?

 

Clearly!

if juggernaut DPS is being sat with their -5% armor debuff, your doing it wrong.

 

Not that anyone can tell, but from the looks of it, JuggDPS isn't bad.

Seriously. Getting tired of sitting (or watching my other tank buddy sit) on almost every fight with tight DPS requirements. We're both Juggernauts, so even if we respecced for DPS our output would suck.

 

I don't want to have to reroll Sniper, but it's what I'm probably going to end up doing at this rate.

 

I think the problem is that you are incapable of dpsing as a juggernaught, which does have a dps spec, right? What a concept .

All these posts prove a point though. If you have a guild with 16 people and you expect to run flashpoints you are going to need 4 tanks capable to keep runs within guild. Meanwhile, all raid fights require 1 tank or less (bonethrasher). The point is, dual spec needs to be made available so people are constantly having to respec for FP and OPS over and over and over......

Dual spec is the thing that will drive this game into the ground. you picked a path now play it. That concept is kinda like RL we cannot do everything so why should be diffrent!!

Dual spec is for peps who want their cake and eat it to..

Dual spec is the thing that will drive this game into the ground. you picked a path now play it. That concept is kinda like RL we cannot do everything so why should be diffrent!!

Dual spec is for peps who want their cake and eat it to..

 

Except if fights require only one tank, you can't play that path.

 

Anyways, I'm more than capable of speccing DPS and doing it. Why bring a Juggernaut though when you can sub in a sorc/sniper and get ranged DPS that's the best in the game? Since I'm a GGG, I don't want to gimp my raid on progression.

Seriously, who wants fights that need 1 tank. Every fight should be like bonethrasher.

 

That's what you meant, right?

 

We do not even bring a tank for bonecrusher, hard enough to meet the enrage on HM.

Dual spec is the thing that will drive this game into the ground. you picked a path now play it. That concept is kinda like RL we cannot do everything so why should be diffrent!!

Dual spec is for peps who want their cake and eat it to..

 

I just want to quote your stupid.

Dual spec is the thing that will drive this game into the ground. you picked a path now play it. That concept is kinda like RL we cannot do everything so why should be diffrent!!

Dual spec is for peps who want their cake and eat it to..

 

Yeah. They took all the ****** old features of WoW and kept them. Dual talent specs. makes fore heightened amusement. But instead BioWare basically say, we want this game to be more tedious!

 

$300 million and they got another Rift. Since VA won't matter at end-game, it was a nice touch while doing your class mission but in most cases a timesink that you just 'spaced' through.

Yeah. They took all the ****** old features of WoW and kept them. Dual talent specs. makes fore heightened amusement. But instead BioWare basically say, we want this game to be more tedious!

 

$300 million and they got another Rift. Since VA won't matter at end-game, it was a nice touch while doing your class mission but in most cases a timesink that you just 'spaced' through.

 

Dont touch Rift. It had/has awesome MMO core. I am still not sure why i stoped playing it, outside major T2 nerf and lack of story.

Dont touch Rift. It had/has awesome MMO core. I am still not sure why i stoped playing it, outside major T2 nerf and lack of story.

 

I'll take a guess and say its probably because mashing 2-3 macros that queue all your skills blow? But yah Rift like Swtor has good potential just need devs that take endgame in the right direction and single tank fights sure as hell aint it.

Dual spec is the thing that will drive this game into the ground. you picked a path now play it. That concept is kinda like RL we cannot do everything so why should be diffrent!!

Dual spec is for peps who want their cake and eat it to..

 

He didn't mean being able to switch between advanced classes, he meant to switch between specs in your advanced class and not have to respec every day or so to be able to raid and do FPs. If the raiding only requires 1ish tank per run and FPs need about 4 tanks to get 16 people from a guild geared, then they should definitely add dualspecs into the game.

We do hardmode EV with 2 tanks (8 and 16 man) and meet all enrage timers. It's especially helpful on soa. Tell your ranged dps to step it up and dish out more dps. Edited January 13, 2012 by Trayne_

I was fearing that this would happen. Only ran 8-man so far, very tough to get a spot for hardmode raids as a tank. Especially since I came in a bit late to the guild and they already have their core of 8-10 people they run. Tank being probably the most important role does not make it any easier.

 

If it's the same in 16-man the outlook for my powertech does not look brilliant =/

My view is that all group content should stay constant with group make up.

So

4 man flash points need 1 tank 1 healer 2 dps.

8 man zones should need 2 tanks 2 healers 4 dps

16 man zones should need 4 tanks, 4 healers 8 dps

 

If the devs had used this design there would be very little reason for respeccing and you never have to Sit one role to bring in another role. I have never understood why these games have different group make ups for all the levels of content.

 

It is silly for a guild to do all the content they have to carry more than needed for end game.

As some one else said a guild needs 4 tanks for flash points but then raiding kicks in and you only need 1 or 2 tanks..

 

I do not want to see dual specs.. What i want to see is content that is designed around proper group make up.

 

When i first started playing these games for pve many years ago i wanted to be a tank. I leveled great because every one wanted me in there single group content. Then i wanted to do raiding....Only to be told by many guilds that all there tank spots were filled and i could be a fill in when needed. Fact is most guilds have their main tanks spots solidly filled and they guard those spots closely!

My view is that all group content should stay constant with group make up.

So

4 man flash points need 1 tank 1 healer 2 dps.

8 man zones should need 2 tanks 2 healers 4 dps

16 man zones should need 4 tanks, 4 healers 8 dps

 

If the devs had used this design there would be very little reason for respeccing and you never have to Sit one role to bring in another role. I have never understood why these games have different group make ups for all the levels of content.

 

It is silly for a guild to do all the content they have to carry more than needed for end game.

As some one else said a guild needs 4 tanks for flash points but then raiding kicks in and you only need 1 or 2 tanks..

 

I do not want to see dual specs.. What i want to see is content that is designed around proper group make up.

 

... So you ever thought of Software design? Could be in your future ... Could be an asset to the BioWare team.

 

... They could be sending people to your house right now to squash your ideas with bullets ...

Sorry to burst your bubble but there is absolutely no reason to do HM FP. The gear that drops is worthless and you can easily do regular OPs with the gear you hit 50 with and get better loots than the FP.

 

This brings up another problem. There is nothing to do besides raid and we full clear both in one night. PvP is not my thing which is why I am on a pve server and fp take longer than an OPs run and drops inferior loot.

 

Then last night we go into HM EV and the first boss won't come out to play.

 

I quit.

I agree with the OP.

 

When we were planning classes for release and end game raiding, we went around the "fourish" tank model.

 

However, even on 16 man, you truly only need 1 tank speced player. Even bosses that you use two tanks on like Soa, or pylons, this can be accomplished by a dps switching to a tank stance/buff.

 

The problem now is how are they going to design future end game content. I would think you could do a lot more from a development standpoint by having fights designed around more tanks. However, adding those now, will cause some sense of frustration in the community because of lack of need so far. Guilds will either need to go back and regear, recruit, or worse force re-roll people to fill out their raid slots.

Edited January 13, 2012 by swpoop

We're running into the same issue. We only bet on needing two tanks, rather than four, so it's not as big a deal for us. But there is no point in having a second tank. We're probably going to have our second tank respec DPS. For the rare occasions where a second tank is useful, it can be done EASILY in DPS spec/gear without sacrificing a DPS slot for a redundant tank.

 

There are currently six boss encounters in the game. Two of the six, Bonethrasher and Council, don't need a tank at all. In fact, the low DPS output of tanks make them a liability in these encounters. Pylons in 8-man are also tank-optional, though not a tank-liability, meaning in half of 8-man content, tanks are not needed at all.

 

That's not right.

Well some of the tanks can respec for some encounters BT, SOA, etc... but the main problem is them having to stack 2 sets of gear - which if you are unlucky with drops can be a real problem due to the lockouts.

 

Otherwise agree with the OP - especially since some HP flashpoint can be done easily enough with 3 DPS & 1 Healer - why would you want to use a tank then ?

 

 

On the contrary, in huttball... team of tank+healer = win

 

Game is broken

Not sure why anyone would bad mouth dual spec...

 

You do realize "dual spec" means being able to quickly change between two talent tree specs? It has nothing to do with changing advanced class - which is the choice that you're stuck with.

 

You can already change your spec in-game at an NPC... All dual spec would do is make it where you don't have to go to this NPC in between boss fights. You have two configurations you can load based on which role you're needed as for each individual fight. Hotbars should save between loads too so you don't have to mess with your ability bars. It takes away annoying instances where otherwise you would have to wait like 15 minutes for someone to change specs. (Or you'd have to have backups and bench players on certain fights.)

 

Here's my proposal:

 

- Leave in the respec cost, but allow people to respec from anywhere.

- Add in talent build exports that you can import back in after resetting your talents.

- Allow players to export/import hotbars as well.

 

You still have the exact same cost as what's in the game now and all you take out is the annoying parts - Having to go to the NPC to respec, having to respend all your talent points, and having to reconfigure all your hotbars. So you give players more time to actually play the game. If that's not good enough, throw in a markup on respec cost if it's done away from the vendor and limit the number of talent builds / hotbar setups you can export/import.

 

The other alternative is to just implement multi-spec capability as a skill you learn from your class trainer where hotbars & talent builds are saved to templates and the character has X number of templates he can choose from. (Where X is the number of specs a character can swiftly switch between.)

Edited January 13, 2012 by Semitote

Yeah. They took all the ****** old features of WoW and kept them. Dual talent specs. makes fore heightened amusement. But instead BioWare basically say, we want this game to be more tedious!

 

$300 million and they got another Rift. Since VA won't matter at end-game, it was a nice touch while doing your class mission but in most cases a timesink that you just 'spaced' through.

 

First his game did not cost $300 million

Second VO is awesome IMO

Third .. i don't mind dual spec but honestly the respec costs reset weekly, not that big of a deal.

Forth . yes, please have us bring 2 tanks into a run. I am in the same situation where 1 tank is having to sit, luckily for me though, i have a ps3 right next to my PC

Edited January 13, 2012 by Xothos

I am not entirely sure why some players are against dual-specs. It is a way to further customize your character, and allows greater freedom in your gameplay experience.

 

I'm going to use an example in Vanilla WoW about why not having dual spec, and tuning bosses to the requirements of flashpoints is not the best thing for end-game content.

 

In World of WarCraft, there was a raid called Naxxramas, with a boss known as The Four Horsemen. This was a forty player raid. The boss required eight tanks. Back then dual spec did not exist in WoW so if a tank was absent that night, or had to leave early, you were unable to do any further attempts on the boss unless you had backup tanks waiting outside the instance.

 

This presented several problems:

1) Guilds with only 8 tanks were unable to complete the fight if one was absent.

2) No other fight in the game required 8, in fact, most required one or two at the most.

3) Tanks past the eight needed had to sit outside the instance and be "on-call" during the raid, which is no fun.

4) Fights requiring less tanks meant that offtanks had to put on some dps pieces and do pathetically low dps as a tank spec, or spend a large amount of gold, and time, to go respec multiple times a night if they really wanted to bring competitive dps to a fight.

5) Offtanks had to carry a dps set of gear which was often whatever leftover loot was going to be disenchanted, since actual DPS specs got precedence.

 

Dual spec eliminates the first four of those problems, and because of the way stats work in SWTOR, the fifth one isn't nearly as bad since tank gear still has similar primary stats to dps gear. It allows you to play with the same core group of 8 or 16 without the need for extra tanks sitting in the ranks who need to be geared up for if/when they get to raid.

 

It does nothing but help - short a tank or healer? Have a dps respec. Short dps and too many tanks or healers? Vice versa.