One way or not, telling me to shut up and then claiming that the auto-heals were his heals and that without him healing it would be IMPOSSIBLE to clear the turret portion?

 

That became a matter of principle. I do not tolerate fools, didn't want to doom the DPS, but not kicking the idiot. Well, too bad then.

 

Also, really? Really!? There are 4 turrets, it's obvious what you have to do. It's obvious it can be done. Out of 4 characters I've leveled on the Imperial side, this is the first time I've done CWG with this method. How he got the notion that it was impossible without healing from a player is beyond me. I shudder to think of the possibilities.

 

Oh don't get me wrong I don't blame you for bailin on him. He had it comin big time. I was just makin note that if done properly having a healer in the middle does work. I have done it both ways several times. Not sure why but it seems much easier to beat the turret phases now than in the early days.

The very last level pug flashpoint I have ever done was Lost Island (of course).

 

I ask "everyone done this before?" Don't care about response, just want to explain fights if needed. Everyone says yes. The healer and I are both level 55, I'm in about half underworld and half arkanian. Healer similarly geared. Two dps are level 50s, but whatever.

 

One dps, an assassin, dies of first lightning ball to droid. Rezzed. Dies again almost immediately to lightning ball. Never even attempts to move. We kill boss. I ask what he was doing. Says he died due to lag. A common excuse. Whatever.

 

Get to donkey kong boss. I call out buttons. People say yes. Assassin doesn't even attempt to stack under boss, dies. Of course, his button was the one that needed to be pressed, we die shortly thereafter. I ask again: what is going on, do you know this? No response. We spawn, go back. This time, I ain't doing anything till I get some clarification. "DO YOU KNOW THIS FIGHT?" No response. I literally have my character sit down. Finally he says: "no, never made it past first boss."

 

"Why didn't you say something?" No response. "Would you like me to explain things so that we can be on the same page?" Maybe thirty seconds goes by. My finger is hovering over vote to kick. I then get this response.

 

"Meh. Whatever."

 

Told him good luck finding another tank and left. It may be another year before I pug a flashpoint again.

 

What you did was perfectly justified and you showed some great patience. I just wanted to point out that with a 2+ 55 team there's not really a need to assign buttons to specific people. 1 person can easily take care of all buttons if needed.

Gathering today pug for EV HM on my merc DPS, we got lev 52 healer. We examined his gear, and that was shocking. Sorc wearing aim implants and some strength mods, and his willpower was below 1k. He explained he doesn't have money to get proper items, so he is wearing mob drops. As the rest of pug insisted that me, and my guildie (who was also on merc) will just throw off heals, and that will be enough, we just left.

Oh don't get me wrong I don't blame you for bailin on him. He had it comin big time. I was just makin note that if done properly having a healer in the middle does work. I have done it both ways several times. Not sure why but it seems much easier to beat the turret phases now than in the early days.

 

It's probably much easier because everything in this game eventually gets made easier. The way of Western MMOs I guess. Although I will be more open-minded in the future, I'm just not seeing how it's more efficient since everyone essentially has to cover the empty turret.

 

It's kinda like how idiots that queue as both tank/dps or heal/dps but don't have field respec and can't dps when it comes down to it. Although bad and should be removed, are sadly, still better than no dps.

 

Gathering today pug for EV HM on my merc DPS, we got lev 52 healer. We examined his gear, and that was shocking. Sorc wearing aim implants and some strength mods, and his willpower was below 1k. He explained he doesn't have money to get proper items, so he is wearing mob drops. As the rest of pug insisted that me, and my guildie (who was also on merc) will just throw off heals, and that will be enough, we just left.

 

That technically might have been feasible. Since it's a known fact that EV can be solo-tanked, it stands to reason that it can somewhat be solo-healed(If TBC SM can be solo-healed why not EV HM no?). Assuming you had another healer. But yes, definitely, a healer that has the wrong gear and makes rotten excuses(since it's easy to get basic commendations from just questing in Makeb) earns no place in an ops group.

You were the one being an ***.

Grats.

 

 

50 normal modes are easy as hell, you can do it with a vigilance stanced Guardian/Jugg if they're 55.

Proof of that is that you made it through and got a few pieces of gear.

 

 

Taking gear someone really needs however is a ******* move, you'd have made the money off the weekly anyway, or daily or w/e and would have gotten some comms too, as well as credits loot.

You were the one at fault.

 

I'd do it again, just to piss you off. Besides, how would you feel if instead I was healing, that I was dpsing? It's the exact same way I felt. There was aggro issues all over the place, you can't expect any healer to keep up with it...

 

And that was a 50 HM.

Edited July 2, 2013 by MasterFeign

• The "I'm at work, so I will have to put your lives on hold for 10 minutes while I make this call"- type of guy.
  
• The "My client crashed, so now I'm going to spend 15 minutes relaunching the game"- type of guy.
  
• The "Oh, the tank and healer is going that way, so now I'm going in this opposite direction to pull mobs on my own"- type of guy.
  
• The "Oh my God, I need this bonus quest, so that your Flashpoint run will be 30 minutes longer than it has to be"- type of guy.
  
• The "I'm a Marauder, so I can charge in first and pretend that I'm tanking, which results in my healer dying because their heals generate more hate than my damage" type of guy.
  
• The "Uuh, I will attack the champion mob first, then the elite mob, then the strong mob, and lastly, the normal mobs" type of guy.
  
• The "I'm a Sniper, so I can't assist, thus will do massive damage on a mob that the tank hasn't got proper hate on which will result in me pulling aggro repeatedly" type of guy.
  
• The "Oh, look, that mob is CC'd, let's attack it" type of guy.
  
• The "When you say 'go' I will respond five seconds late resulting in your plan to fail" type of guy.
  

 

I meet these people frequently.

 

Well Most of these I agree with except for the bonus one. I quite enjoy doing the extra stuff for the bonus. But people like you just want to run as quickly as possible to the end. The bonus is a great way to get extra xp/gear and other occaisional goodies

Ive had several. Here are a few.

On my smuggler as a dps. I just got into mandelorian raiders. The other dps left right after joining group (as usually happens) The healer pulled aggro a couple of times which pissed the tank off causing the tank to leave. Then I was left with him. and I told him to wait till we had a tank. He didnt listen tried tanking got us both killed and I left because of that.

 

On my agent in EV SM the pylon part. Had a few people repeatedly activate the pylons while the cats and aklays that had been aggroed were still attacking us. Wich caused the pylons to glitch and infinatly spawn rakata until we all died. And when we all got back the idiot messed up the pylons again. Needless to say we never finished EV

 

On my Assassin in hammer station SM. My first time tanking some sniper was pissed off with my tanking since it wasnt that good at the time. So I said if you dont like that im not a good tank right now you go ahead and tank. Then I left the group.

And here's my portion of interesting people

1. Mara's that actually thinks that they are the tanks.

2. People who thinks that tank can cover ALL battlefield. Alone.

3. Healers that doesnt even know that they are healers (yeah, that happend with my team)

4. People who NEVER listen to a people advices, even if those people playing longer, and more experienced. (Please, DO NOT ATTACK BEFORE TANK! - And what you gonna do if im not stop? - *leave*)

5. Loot ninjas (Hey! Why did you need that think? You dont need cunning. - Sorry) Wrong button - And why are you NEED mara's gear? You are powertech! - Damn) I trying to eat and play) - *kicked*)

6. People who dont know how to gear (Sorc-healer 50 lvl with mods on 45 level in HM Black Talon)

And here's my portion of interesting people

1. Mara's that actually thinks that they are the tanks.

2. People who thinks that tank can cover ALL battlefield. Alone.

3. Healers that doesnt even know that they are healers (yeah, that happend with my team)

4. People who NEVER listen to a people advices, even if those people playing longer, and more experienced. (Please, DO NOT ATTACK BEFORE TANK! - And what you gonna do if im not stop? - *leave*)

5. Loot ninjas (Hey! Why did you need that think? You dont need cunning. - Sorry) Wrong button - And why are you NEED mara's gear? You are powertech! - Damn) I trying to eat and play) - *kicked*)

6. People who dont know how to gear (Sorc-healer 50 lvl with mods on 45 level in HM Black Talon)

 

1. Check. I whisper healer to let them die. They learn their lesson after that.

2. Check. I let them cry.

3. Check. One Sorc healer I had just spammed Force Storm non-stop and complained he didn't have Force to heal.

4. Check. I let them die. And die, and die. And then me and the healer leave + ignore.

5. Check. The worst are the F2P/Pref, then they say they can't trade/mail and all sorts of ********.

6. Check. Had a Jugg Tank once that had every single stat at 300+ at level 42. Spread out stat strategy he said.

 

Let me add some more, similar to the bullet point post sometime earlier.

 

7. Healers that cry for guard when there is a much higher level pure DPS class that will certainly pull more aggro than he/she ever can.

8. DPS that prefer to attack the strongest mob and let all the weaker ones attack you and tell you it's your job to tank.

9. People that don't interrupt abilities and better yet, don't even know *** interrupt means. Wow! Why do we get one-shot on bonus boss in HM Athiss? Because your stupid tank doesn't know what interrupt is.

10. Shadow/Assassin tanks that think Force Wave/Overload counts as an AoE taunt. I'm hitting everything! I'm taunting!

11. People that use AoE KB(Force Wave/Overload) abilities as an actual part of their DPS rotation. Knocking stuff of your AoE, Or making it harder to AoE.

12. Sorc/Sage healers that spec into Force Wave/Overload healing, that knock everything out of your AoE just so they can heal you for........... 1200 health. Wow thanks buddy! Damn fine job there! You made it harder to kill things faster, but at least you healed us for 1200 health!

 

And one of my biggest peeves.

 

13. People who queue as both tank and DPS roles, but are ONLY specced and geared for tanking. No field respec. And come into an FP/Op in tank stance and refuse to even switch to a DPS stance so they have less threat. If you queue for both, you better be able to do both otherwise G.T.F.O.

Edited July 2, 2013 by artikulieren

I logged on my (fresh 55) Frontlinemedic and two guildmates grabbed to heal somewhere.

Not paying attention what they said exactly I agreed and found myself in a lvl 55 FP, where I got 1 shotted, teared apart, chewed and spit out in a second.

My apolgies to the fourth who had to line up again, I´ve been one of my beloved undergeared Idiots myself...

14. DPS that haven't the foggiest clue what positioning means. That put their backs facing hazards like rocket fire(HM Cade), or another pack/more difficult mobs(HM Athiss).

last night I had pleasure of healing dps assassin in dark charge... I told him he's got tank charge, he said it was healing him.

told him it generates threat and he's being hit, he swaped to lightning charge... with 110 force it was clear he should be surging, but we pulled it off, atleast he didn't pull agro at all.

tank on other hand tried to stand 10 meters range and bless him, he was doing good job at it. force lightning, dishcharge and shock. on the last boss, when I typed 'please attack turrets, not the boss', he said 'i'm positioning him' - which was BS since he just stand next to other dps..

atleast all of them knew to move away from red circles, so there is hope for future.

 

as for colicoids mentioned earlier, for a moment I thought it was me, but we didn't wipe when I healed it from the middle, although on second turret I noticed my self that we had self healing and mine wasn't really needed. but it was first colicoid for all 4 of us, and our tank didn't leave

15. Tanks that don't know positioning. Again Hammer Station - tank in 63s/61s who didn't stay back to the wall when fighting bonus boss (and we told him tactics), tanks who don't pull Kreshan from side, making rest of party eat his cone attack.... Tanks who don't keep him back to the console, or are not even at the console, getting kicked out of the map

 

16. People who don't think and listen any class, any role.... Don't blow the barrels, when CCed mob is near them, don't use aoe, when half of pack is CCed, who don't wait till the walking mob leaves the pack, or for the patrol mob to come back in Athiss bonus boss, so we don't have to fight him and guardian champion at same time.

..., or for the patrol mob to come back in Athiss bonus boss, so we don't have to fight him and guardian champion at same time.

 

Actually, if you just clear the "bonus boss room" and DO NOT GO NEAR THE STAIRS the patrol just stands in the other room at the bottom of the stairs. Going to the top of the stairs will "activate" him and cause him to come back o the boss room.

 

If you position your camera to look down the stairs (without going near the stairs) you will see the patrol just standing there.

10. Shadow/Assassin tanks that think Force Wave/Overload counts as an AoE taunt. I'm hitting everything! I'm taunting!

11. People that use AoE KB(Force Wave/Overload) abilities as an actual part of their DPS rotation. Knocking stuff of your AoE, Or making it harder to AoE.

 

Anyone who uses his knockback when he doesn't a.) throw the mobs over an edge or b.) group them up for AoE is just wierd for my.

In a group for an H4 on nar shaddaa (I think it was the Jedi Freedom Fighter one) we had a juggernaut who constantly used his Push on cd, which resulted in pulling additional groups a few times and I was just standing there thinking "Why? :confused:"

 

12. Sorc/Sage healers that spec into Force Wave/Overload healing, that knock everything out of your AoE just so they can heal you for........... 1200 health. Wow thanks buddy! Damn fine job there! You made it harder to kill things faster, but at least you healed us for 1200 health!

 

I specced into this once or twice on both my merc and my sorc heal. It's funny to watch the melees asking "wth?" and being able to answer "I was just healing ;)"

Which just goes to show that there is more than one way to do things sometimes. Some groups I have run with always have a healer on the center box and the other three on turrets facing inward and covering the area behind their team mates. It works, if everyone is on the same page, as well as the traditional method.

 

but.. why?

 

I mean... if you have all 4 people on turrets, you don't even get damaged, mobs just die before getting anywhere near the turret area. while having one person off the turret = added stress in trying to cover for someone else's area, meaning colicoids get closer then they should (I recently had someone die there, said their mouse was acting up and let me tell you, while possible to do with 3 people on turrets only, it was a headache and the only time we actually took a little bit of damage)

 

its like... are you deliberately trying to make the fight harder or something? because you really do get auto heals for what little damage you take from missile shooting colicoids. there's zero need for extra healing. zero.

 

and speaking of collicoid games, most recent run - me healing on a sage, guardian marked as tank, vanguard and gunslinger. turret section goes off without a hitch, we move on to the rest of the flashpoint, cc is marked, fighting starts... and I'm gradually realizing that while guardian is tanking (in proper stance and everything) vanguard seems to keep on jumping to the other mobs, keeps drawing aggro when he shouldn't (honestly from personal experience, collicoid is possibly the easiest flashpoint to tank, especially with cc, because there isn't a lot of trash mobs, so losing aggro requires a very "special" group). going on to the stage with all those buttons you press and vanguard starts leaping from button to button, ignoring force fields. which is cool and saves a lot of time (notes for later) except surge is a tanking tree only skill. and at that point I look closer at his health bar and yep - tanking cell.

 

but guardian is using tanking abilities too O_O so naturally I ask. why do we have 2 tanks. guardian replies, that vanguard is higher level and has more abilities and that they are premade group. oookey... sooo why did you select tank in your queue if you weren't going to tank? "I forgot I had it selected" fair enough. but in that case... why are you using tanking form?? "oh.. I forgot, thank you" (switches to dps one) i mean, flashpoint went otherwise smoothly and I've healed infinitely worse, I was just amused and curious and I gotta say - pleased that they didn't kick me after all the questions, and instead answered them

 

P.S. that talent that lets knockback for mercs/socras heal is pretty much a given. not because its that awesome (its pretty situational, but can be awesome when used well - especially at early levels, where you don't have the "piddle puddle" yet) but because there's nothing else to take really in order to unlock next talent tier.

Edited July 2, 2013 by Jeweledleah

but.. why?

 

I mean... if you have all 4 people on turrets, you don't even get damaged, mobs just die before getting anywhere near the turret area. while having one person off the turret = added stress in trying to cover for someone else's area, meaning colicoids get closer then they should (I recently had someone die there, said their mouse was acting up and let me tell you, while possible to do with 3 people on turrets only, it was a headache and the only time we actually took a little bit of damage)

 

its like... are you deliberately trying to make the fight harder or something? because you really do get auto heals for what little damage you take from missile shooting colicoids. there's zero need for extra healing. zero.

 

I didn't start the practice but I imagine it went something like this. In the early days of the FP the enemy colicoids weren't as easy to kill and they routinely got in melee range of the people on the turrets and started doing damage to them. Some group at some point was having problems clearing the phase and got the idea to put the healer on the box in the middle and have the other three face inward and cover the area behind their team mates. The extra heals helped and they finished the phase and eventually the flashpoint. From that point on that was just how it was supposed to be done for them and from that time on they taught it to others as they went through it with pug groups and people new to it learned it as the way to beat the phase. And thus it gets passed on and on.

 

These days the bugs die so much easier or less are poppin up, I'm not sure which, but the turret phase is just simple now so the extra heals are not needed at all but people will keep doing what they first learned and really it does work both ways with neither one being easier or harder.

I didn't start the practice but I imagine it went something like this. In the early days of the FP the enemy colicoids weren't as easy to kill and they routinely got in melee range of the people on the turrets and started doing damage to them. Some group at some point was having problems clearing the phase and got the idea to put the healer on the box in the middle and have the other three face inward and cover the area behind their team mates. The extra heals helped and they finished the phase and eventually the flashpoint. From that point on that was just how it was supposed to be done for them and from that time on they taught it to others as they went through it with pug groups and people new to it learned it as the way to beat the phase. And thus it gets passed on and on.

 

These days the bugs die so much easier or less are poppin up, I'm not sure which, but the turret phase is just simple now so the extra heals are not needed at all but people will keep doing what they first learned and really it does work both ways with neither one being easier or harder.

 

Before they nerfed Collicoid, the turrets didn't heal you and the ranged (droid) collicoids did a lot more damage. Without healer it was always a very close call about surviving or not. That's why ppl used to put a healer in the middle and cover for his spot.

 

Once they added the selfheal on turrets there was no need for healer to get off anymore, but ppl keep doing it for some strange reason.

13. People who queue as both tank and DPS roles, but are ONLY specced and geared for tanking. No field respec. And come into an FP/Op in tank stance and refuse to even switch to a DPS stance so they have less threat. If you queue for both, you better be able to do both otherwise G.T.F.O.

 

I just had this one yesterday... it wasn't really a problem since it was only low level Hammer Station and I had no problem keeping aggro against the tank-stanced DPS, but at the second boss he got aggro from the main boss as I was concentrating on the droid because that one should have been the main target at that time.

Gotta admit, I have done low level Hammer Station just too often so I get pissed off quite easily if people aren't doing their job (DPS jumping in first, tanks only attacking a single mob so all the others attack the healer...). Anyway, I told him to finally switch to DPS stance and he replied he was tank-specced. I said he shouldn't have listed as DPS then and he replied he hadn't and that I was the kind of person that always blamed it on others... well, I wasn't the one with the DPS sign under his character icon

His attitude just upset me, he wasn't trying to tank, but he could at least have switched stances...

Edited July 2, 2013 by Sorei

Before they nerfed Collicoid, the turrets didn't heal you and the ranged (droid) collicoids did a lot more damage. Without healer it was always a very close call about surviving or not. That's why ppl used to put a healer in the middle and cover for his spot.

 

Once they added the selfheal on turrets there was no need for healer to get off anymore, but ppl keep doing it for some strange reason.

 

Ah so they did nerf it. I knew it was easier but didn't know they took specific actions. I really think only one or the other were needed tho. It's too easy now.

as I'm waiting for my ewok companion for my 2 low level (see signature, currently 31 lvl) toons, one tank one healer, imp and rep side, for sake of experiment, I'll be doing only flashpoints with them.

I'm exited to type new stories that can make it into this thread very soon, from personal expierence.

 

soon

15. Tanks that don't know positioning. Again Hammer Station - tank in 63s/61s who didn't stay back to the wall when fighting bonus boss (and we told him tactics), tanks who don't pull Kreshan from side, making rest of party eat his cone attack.... Tanks who don't keep him back to the console, or are not even at the console, getting kicked out of the map

 

16. People who don't think and listen any class, any role.... Don't blow the barrels, when CCed mob is near them, don't use aoe, when half of pack is CCed, who don't wait till the walking mob leaves the pack, or for the patrol mob to come back in Athiss bonus boss, so we don't have to fight him and guardian champion at same time.

 

At this point, with a strong group fighting two of those lightsaber champions in Athiss means zero problem. It makes things faster though. waiting for patrols to go away etc. is waste of time in such cases.

HM Mandalorian raiders, tank seemed a bit undergeared, slightly over 20k hp. Rest of the team was strong though, the other 2 guys were from well known quality pve guild on my server, so it should be doable anyway I thought. In the end, it turned you to be one of the funniest FP runs I've been part of.

 

I didn't inspect the tank to look more closely at his gear, but the fact was that he died in seconds on numerous trash pulls during the whole thing. The second thing was that he almost didn't use taunts, at least I didn't notice it. I inspected his achievements halfway through the run and I found out that he never completed any HM 55 before, only killed 1 boss in all of them. The reason was obvious, he probably got kicked from all his former runs short after they started. I guess this time was his lucky day as all 3 other people in the group were probably in good mood or something, because nobody left, nobody even criticized him for his style of play during the entire run, just a few funny comments on the situation (not the player) throughout the run. Even though we suffered several wipes and the tank died even more times, we finished it including bonus boss.

 

The irony is that I think we all had more fun during this crazy run that we would have in a perfectly executed smooth run. I definitely wouldn't like to experience this every day though.

Edited July 2, 2013 by zzoorrzz

Just ran with a group of 55's in hard mode false emperor who didn't know to interrupt unlimited power.

 

lol, was this in BC?

P.S. that talent that lets knockback for mercs/socras heal is pretty much a given. not because its that awesome (its pretty situational, but can be awesome when used well - especially at early levels, where you don't have the "piddle puddle" yet) but because there's nothing else to take really in order to unlock next talent tier.

 

I am firmly against it. Great to have in PvP, but so situational that even if you spec into it. You shouldn't be using it every single cooldown you get. Especially not if it entails knocking mobs out of melee DPS range or worse yet, out of AoE diameter/range. If you truly wanted to heal, you could drop a puddle or if you wanted to AoE, use Force Storm.

 

At low levels, it doesn't even heal for anything worth a crap. 1200 is the number I gave looking at my partial 69 geared Sorc. If DPS are taking so much damage that they need a sub-1k, heck even a sub-500 hp heal. They're gonna die any way, and your tank is either dead or really bad.

 

as for colicoids mentioned earlier, for a moment I thought it was me, but we didn't wipe when I healed it from the middle, although on second turret I noticed my self that we had self healing and mine wasn't really needed. but it was first colicoid for all 4 of us, and our tank didn't leave

 

Your tank didn't leave because he didn't have to suffer an adamant imbecile. Also your tank was probably trained to handle sufferers of mental retardation. I'm not.

Edited July 2, 2013 by artikulieren