This issue isn't anything new, and has been brought up in countless threads over the past 6+ months at least.

 

The solution is the same as it has always been. Bioware needs to separate group and single queues, and the only way they can support that is by implementing cross-server queues. They apparently do not have the means to do this currently, though they haven't adequately explained why.

 

Given all the fundamental problems with Ranked WZs (this too has been explained in great detail in numerous posts), premades have become more common in regular WZs. The issue here isn't that premades are "cowards" or they only want to farm PUGs all day, it's that many of these premades are partial premades (a single group of 4 players), but you'll often see two partial premades in the same WZ. These are often players who merely want to play together, and/or who feel it necessary to group up given how horrible most PUGs can be and that the other faction is also queueing up with groups, and finally because Ranked WZs are simply not viable (and typically not fun). Speaking from personal experience, my guild on my server queues up in groups primarily because most of the PUGs are just that bad and because we're constantly facing double (partial) or full premades from the Republic side. When we do queue up for Ranked, it's when we have 16 people on so that we can form two Ranked teams to play against each other. We don't win trade, and we shift around the teams to keep things even as far as skill and class composition go. Our scrimmages are often intense, close matches and it's the only time that we actually have fun doing Ranked WZs.

 

While none of this helps the solo queue players (PUGs), it's the unfortunate reality of WZ PvP in this game. My suggestion is to group up with players who are semi-competent and geared. They don't need to be from the same guild. That alone will reduce the amount of losses you suffer because of either undergeard players or those who are simply inept at PvP. The other suggestion is to gear up your alts with your main by sending the PvP mods via legacy gear. That way you never have to step foot in a WZ wearing Recruit gear. That's what I did, and not only did it make my alt's transition into lvl 50 PvP more smooth, I wasn't ever a liability in matches because of my gear. If you don't like either of those suggestions, or you simply prefer to solo queue, then you might consider avoiding PvP altogether until BW pulls their collective heads out of their arses and figures out how to implement cross-server queues so they can do things like queue separation and gear-based match-making.

Group and single queues ARE seperated. They are called normal or regular war zones, and ranked war zones. Sometimes you lose and sometimes you win. Get some friends if you don't like to lose sometimes. Nothing will change and BW needs to do nothing.

/THREAD

edit: Your guild refuses to do rankeds unless they have 16 online so it is against their own team? WOW. I understand now why you would think normal war zones are unbalanced do to you having to play with or against anyone other than your guildmates. /BOGGLE

The thing these kiddies don't understand is that when those 1.5 mil "casuals" un-sub (or leave the game when f2p) that SWTOR dies and they turn off the servers.

 

War-Zones weren't made just for the 5% of the players with low self-esteem that think it's "fun" to make premades of fully augmented WH-gear players and boot-stomp fresh 50s in recruit gear all day long.

 

EA/BW can either fix pvp to make it enjoyable for the 95% of players that are "casuals" or they can keep it the way it is now and watch as the playerbase & revenue continue to decline at an ever-increasing rate.

we are not talking about rated wzs here the complaint is that premades are ruining regular wzs. That is definitely not true I generally do quite well with or without being in a group with ppl from the guild. Seriously partial premade is not godmode like you guys think, there are plenty of times we have qued with as a 4man group and still gotten our butts handed to us so like I said before if you lose get over it or quit playing warzones.

Ya... I still don't get this.

1. How hard is it to find a few friends and Queue up? We're playing a massive-multiplayer game. Shouldn't the goal, and expectation be for people to play together?

2. Why do people act like those who do run in groups (same guild, whatever...) are terrible people? All we're doing is playing with friends and actually coordinating. A PuG could do well if it coordinates, but "pre-mades" are more likely to do so. That's it.

I love threads like this. I even made my own thread about them,

This falls in the premades with voice are crushing me category. As far as I know there are no group restrictions on one faction that aren't on the other. Group up yourself. Get on Vent/Mumble/TS or whatever there are no shortage of options. Gear up together. Learn the maps, tactics and counter tactics together. You know, be a team. Odds are you can find plenty of people to group with. If you're one of those "Don't force me to group with people BW" guys, I have no idea what you're even doing in WZ's.

Ya... I still don't get this.

 

1. How hard is it to find a few friends and Queue up? We're playing a massive-multiplayer game. Shouldn't the goal, and expectation be for people to play together?

 

2. Why do people act like those who do run in groups (same guild, whatever...) are terrible people? All we're doing is playing with friends and actually coordinating. A PuG could do well if it coordinates, but "pre-mades" are more likely to do so. That's it.

Meh just remove the ability to solo queue. I mean who needs the solo queuers since they are just bad?

Meh just remove the ability to solo queue. I mean who needs the solo queuers since they are just bad?

<.< I think of it as the difference between PuG HM groups and a team of friends or guilds. PuG's often have a ton of problems, but when your friends aren't on, they'll get the job done 75% of the time. Might cost you an arm and a leg in repair bills...

However, I'd always -rather- play with friends or guildies, since I know them, we can communicate, and our success rate goes up to 99% of the time.

So... should they remove the ability to pick your groups in PvE too?

Meh just remove the ability to solo queue. I mean who needs the solo queuers since they are just bad?

Great idea. Lets make this, and we'll see, how many subs stay in game

 

If you could L2P, you wouldn't whine about premades. You should be whining about the terribad pugs you are teamed with, except then you'd have to admit right now you're one of them.

Why should people who want to pug a warzone have to play with Premades in the first place? You just want to use the BS L2P excuse because you enjoy face rolling puggers with your premade groups...

The ONLY People that would be against my suggestion would be Premade groups that want easy targets... If you want to play in a premade fine play against other premades, it's funny how people say L2P yet they insist on fighting Pug groups instead of other premades, hmmm wonder why... Maybe because they suck to bad to play on a level playing field... Against other premades they get face rolled themselves....

With F2P coming and Bioware wanting people to buy Week PvP passes, they better make PvP fun, because people are not going to spend money for week passes just to get face rolled by Premades..

Premades don't do ranked, because ranked queues usually take 1h or more

Thats because premades rather fight pug groups then other premades.... Thats just a fact... If Bioware forces the issue then ranked warzones would have a quicker pop time..

why should those of us in guilds not queue up together. It only makes sense that we queue together since we like to pvp and look to become a well known pvp guild at some point. It's practice we get used to working together now in nonranked wz we will be ready for ranked wz. If you don't like running into partial premades like us then join a guild with ppl that like to pvp or quit whining.

I didn't say you couldn't Que up togeater in a premade, I just asked if Bioware could give an a option for PUG only PvP for those of us who don't want to be gimped in a warzone because there going up against a premade...

It's funny how all the premade teams are QQ'ing about this idea, maybe it's because they don't want to go against other premade groups?!?

It's simple

Option 1: Que for 8v8 Ranked PvP Warzone <--- premade only teams

Option 2: Que for 8v8 nomral PvP Warzone <-- just like it is now premades and pug people togeather

Option 3: Que for 8v8 Pug Only PvP Warzone <--- premades not allowed

Now can someone give me a legit reason why this wouldn't work ?

Why should people who want to pug a warzone have to play with Premades in the first place? You just want to use the BS L2P excuse because you enjoy face rolling puggers with your premade groups...

 

The ONLY People that would be against my suggestion would be Premade groups that want easy targets... If you want to play in a premade fine play against other premades, it's funny how people say L2P yet they insist on fighting Pug groups instead of other premades, hmmm wonder why... Maybe because they suck to bad to play on a level playing field... Against other premades they get face rolled themselves....

 

With F2P coming and Bioware wanting people to buy Week PvP passes, they better make PvP fun, because people are not going to spend money for week passes just to get face rolled by Premades..

How about without cross-server queuing, your suggestion would drive queue times way up?

How about, blaming others that take the time to make friends, form groups, strategies, etc... for you being lazy is ********?

How about encouraging people to actually try and become better? (If you were playing sports, would you demand everyone you play against be 200 pounds and out of shape if you didn't take the time to exercise?)

How about people who group up love to fight other groups, but don't want 1hr queue times?

Other than that, all that really comes to mind is; "People who only want to fight other PuG's are lazy people who don't want to find friends, invest time in guilds, or face difficult opponents and would rather the other team be the same helter-skelter frag-fest kill-chasers like themselves. May I suggest MW2 or some other solo-based pvp game?"

and why do the ranked ques take a hour?

 

Because all the premades in the unranked warzones!

 

See how that works?

 

If they start queing up for ranked, it would start to pop more!

 

But this isnt about challenge and competition for them.

 

Its about greifing and ruining others fun.

Hardly a new concept for what we once called PKers.

I will guarentee you 90% of the warzone pre made greifers are the same people that routinely rolled through Ilum heroic areas flagged trying to exploit a bug to flag unflagged players and then kill them.

 

That got taken away and suddenly the pre made issue explodes

 

Simple solution is que the pre mades in a pre made que to face each other and may the best team win.

 

Guarentee you after a couple weeks we will suddenly see 2 man groups trying to load into same WZs as other 2 man groups to get around the anti pre made code so they can once again GREIF those weaker.

 

The real solution to this problem is a 4 parter!

 

1) Make the pre made vrs pre made warzone.

 

2) Then apply a 1225 expertise limit to the current solo que (equiping items after you enter that take you over the limit result in immediate wz removal and 30 minute lock out for attempting to get around the limit)

 

3) Then create a second solo/partner wz for those with 1226 expertise and higher (no removal or lock out if you downgrade)

 

4) and finally have the ranked War Zone as it currently exists (though personally I think that should also have a 1225 expertise minimum for entering players to stop the farming of ranked coms by just being farmed)

 

Do these 4 easy steps and all problems surrounding pre mades and gear are eliminated.

And doing these 4 would actually massively improve the current solo warzone 100 fold and EA might actually convince F2P players the PVP worth it. Cause right now I dont see ANYONE upgradeing from F2P to subscription for the PVP WZs as it stands now.

 

But we all know those who so stringently defend their right to farm right now will be screaming bloody murder the first time they rolled by a pre made of equal gear and status.

 

Cause this issue has never been about competition or challenge

Bitter much? People don't premade to maliciously ruin your online gaming experience, or your life. They premade because they would rather play with friends than by themselves, and they would rather win than lose.

Are uneven talent levels creating a poor experience for those with less talent? Yes. Is that bad for the game and/or queue times overall? Yes. Are there a lot of complete d-bags engaging in any competitive endeavor? Yes.

But don't pretend every dude who would rather play with 3 competent guildies, rather than 3 incompetent strangers, is cackling like some comic book super-villain about how easy it is to beat you and crush your PVP dreams. That's just dramatic.

Bads end up grouped with premades all the time - there are still 4 pug spots in each group afterall. Don't hear the bads asking for nerfs/changes when they are on the winning team cashing their free 140 comms...

From my own unscientific research this is simply not true. If I solo queue I'm far more likely to end up in a pure pug and will most likely face at least one 4-man premade. It usually takes on average 9 warzones until I get grouped up with a premade (based on guild tags). Sadly those premaders usually suck and manage to lose the nodes they are supposed to guard because they seem to have forgotten how to type in ops chat to request reinforcements when needed.

Personally I'd love to have an opt-in button if I want to queue against premades when I solo queue. It's much more enjoyable that way for everyone and the premaders don't have to get bad solo queuers on their team. If the queue times for premades become just like ranked it just means people want a fair challenge and a fighting chance.

From my own unscientific research this is simply not true. If I solo queue I'm far more likely to end up in a pure pug and will most likely face at least one 4-man premade. It usually takes on average 9 warzones until I get grouped up with a premade (based on guild tags). Sadly those premaders usually suck and manage to lose the nodes they are supposed to guard because they seem to have forgotten how to type in ops chat to request reinforcements when needed.

 

Personally I'd love to have an opt-in button if I want to queue against premades when I solo queue. It's much more enjoyable that way for everyone and the premaders don't have to get bad solo queuers on their team. If the queue times for premades become just like ranked it just means people want a fair challenge and a fighting chance.

So you never get grouped with a premade, you are always against them, and the few times you end up with one, they suck?

Yes, that is unscientific. Don't let people stand next to you when it is cloudy.

How about without cross-server queuing, your suggestion would drive queue times way up?

 

How about, blaming others that take the time to make friends, form groups, strategies, etc... for you being lazy is ********?

 

How about encouraging people to actually try and become better? (If you were playing sports, would you demand everyone you play against be 200 pounds and out of shape if you didn't take the time to exercise?)

 

How about people who group up love to fight other groups, but don't want 1hr queue times?

 

Other than that, all that really comes to mind is; "People who only want to fight other PuG's are lazy people who don't want to find friends, invest time in guilds, or face difficult opponents and would rather the other team be the same helter-skelter frag-fest kill-chasers like themselves. May I suggest MW2 or some other solo-based pvp game?"

So basically your argument is that Pug people should be forced to play against premades in order to make the game more enjoyable for premade groups... Because without Pug's your premade group would have to wait longer to play.... ya who's whining now?

Odds are my suggestion would increase pop times for Puggers because more people would go for the PUG only option, which means people like me would get faster pops... I could careless about Premade groups just like you could careless about Pug players...

I do know that Bioware wants to make money and when it goes F2P there not going to be able to sell PvP Week passes pitting new players up against fully geared out premades...

Also this has nothing to do with losing a pvp match, I've been grouped with Premades before and our team dominated the other side, what happens is the other team usually gives up and just sits around there one station in order to get defensive medals and the premade group ends up sitting at there two stations doing nothing also, so both sides just wait for the timer to end.. How is this fun?

The best games are the close ones regardless if you win or lose... but with premades that happens less and less in warzones...

So you never get grouped with a premade, you are always against them, and the few times you end up with one, they suck?

 

Yes, that is unscientific. Don't let people stand next to you when it is cloudy.

If you didn't need a crutch to PvP you would probably also notice it if you solo queued. My biggest problem with premaders is they neither communicate tactics (if one of them are the ops leader) nor do they follow tactics from the ops leader or anyone else that feels like acting like one. They also fail to call out incs and they rely on their guildies to help them when they get incs. They often lose the node or fail miserably with their new tactics they are trying out for ranked warzones I guess. I'm tired of having my PvP experience ruined by premaders on both my side and the opposite side. It's like PvPing with Russians or Brazilians and that's bad.

I find this topic funny its a mmo you're expected to group form friendships play together

The whole notion of separate queues is absurd I mean if you think your at a disadvantage form a group

I predominately solo queue and have never been affected by the rampant

Hordes of premades supposedly ruining every war zone

There seems to be Alot of players on this forum that will blame everything on anything but themselves and their team for their losses

I find this topic funny its a mmo you're expected to group form friendships play together

The whole notion of separate queues is absurd I mean if you think your at a disadvantage form a group

I predominately solo queue and have never been affected by the rampant

Hordes of premades supposedly ruining every war zone

There seems to be Alot of players on this forum that will blame everything on anything but themselves and their team for their losses

If they actually socialized with the other 50% of their team it would be fine. Having a warzone with premaders is like having a group finder queue pop and no one says anything during the entire run. It's not like they are trying to attract solo queuers to join their friendship.

If you didn't need a crutch to PvP you would probably also notice it if you solo queued. My biggest problem with premaders is they neither communicate tactics (if one of them are the ops leader) nor do they follow tactics from the ops leader or anyone else that feels like acting like one. They also fail to call out incs and they rely on their guildies to help them when they get incs. They often lose the node or fail miserably with their new tactics they are trying out for ranked warzones I guess. I'm tired of having my PvP experience ruined by premaders on both my side and the opposite side. It's like PvPing with Russians or Brazilians and that's bad.

A. I don't need a "crutch" thank you, I solo queue about 1/2 the time I play. When I solo queue I win about 50% of the time, when I premade I win about 90% of the time.

B. I was simply pointing out that it is highly unlikely (and mathematically impossible) for you to always face premades while almost never being put in a match with one on your side, AND that they own you when you are against them, but lose the match for you when they are on your team.

They are either helping you win 1/2 the time, or helping you lose 1/2 the time, they cant always be awesome against you, and always suck when they are with you, UNLESS you are an easy person to be awesome against, and terrible with...

Thats because premades rather fight pug groups then other premades.... Thats just a fact... If Bioware forces the issue then ranked warzones would have a quicker pop time..

Not always, we would much rather play ranked since facerolling randoms is just boring, but what is even more boring is waiting for ranked to pop knowing that nobody else is queueing

So you never get grouped with a premade, you are always against them, and the few times you end up with one, they suck?

 

Yes, that is unscientific. Don't let people stand next to you when it is cloudy.

Actually he's right (at least about the being mostly grouped with a PUG part).

If there's 16 spaces in a WZ. And 4 of those spaces are taken by a premade. Then there's a 4/12 chance of being in the pre-made team and an 8/12 chance of being in a PUG. *napkin maths, not taking into account factions*

So it's twice as likely you'll be the PUG - especially when one faction does pre-mades all the time and the other doesn't.

PvP is dead on my server, because most of the Imps do pre-made and the Reps don't. Reps tend to PVE. The Reps basically don't PvP at all now as it's boring getting facerolled. And those that like to be carried, re-rolled as Sith. It's all Imp vs Imp nowadays. Quite dull.

So basically your argument is that Pug people should be forced to play against premades in order to make the game more enjoyable for premade groups... Because without Pug's your premade group would have to wait longer to play.... ya who's whining now?

No, my argument is that primarily Pug players should learn to play nice, and make some friends. It would be more logical for group play to be encouraged (Remember what MMO stands for?), than for group play to be discouraged.

Something is "unfair" when one player has an advantage that another player can not obtain (or have something of equal value.) If one player chooses to abstain from that advantage (picking 3 of your team mates) they really have no business crying when someone else doesn't. It would be the same as calling some one cheap for using a WZ medpak or picking up one of the random power-ups. You had equal opportunity to take one yourself, and you didn't.

Odds are my suggestion would increase pop times for Puggers because more people would go for the PUG only option, which means people like me would get faster pops... I could careless about Premade groups just like you could careless about Pug players...

 

I do know that Bioware wants to make money and when it goes F2P there not going to be able to sell PvP Week passes pitting new players up against fully geared out premades...

Queue times would not decrease. If there is a pool of 32 players, but traditonally 12 of them were in 4 man groups, you've now divided the pools. There is a pool of 20 solo players (enough for 1 game, 4 people left hanging), and 12 group players (not even enought for a game.)

If you don't think 32 players is an accurate sample size, you should see some of the smaller servers during the day. Even during the main hours, we're lucky to se 40+ active PvP'ers.