As I said, you need to embrace it. Not hate it.

 

Hell use other peoples control against them.

lol, "use other people's control against them"

That's up there with "just heal to full" and "make them pay for attacking you"

lol, "use other people's control against them"

 

That's up there with "just heal to full" and "make them pay for attacking you"

If you really think that then you don't know how to play this game.

lol, "use other people's control against them"

 

That's up there with "just heal to full" and "make them pay for attacking you"

perception problems.

Making any kind of radical changes to stuns/mezes would require a lot of work. Considering they are putting off fixing class balance issues even they admit exist, it would be a long ways down the road. I am kind of surprised they didn't just steal WoWs DR system entirely.

WoW's DR system would be even worse for the whiners. RMP is built entirely on keeping 1 person out of the whole fight with CCs, you can't do that in this game.

why? I'm not trying to be a dick. I've offered my rationale: it can still be used to interrupt if you want to dmg the target, but more importantly, it fulfills the function of isolating the person you want to burn down. e.g., my team wants to burn down mr. dps sorc, but mr. tank jugg just throws his guard on him and mr. op healer can easily keep him alive through all that mitigation. oh. here's a plan, let's flashbang the tank & healer, pull the sorc away and wreck him in 2-3 gcds. I think it would work just fine in arenas. in WZs, where node capping is most important, mezz > stun anyway. honestly, the only thing I can think of that would get borked hard would be fire pulls, which aren't even dmg from another player. maybe tweak that a little? it's not a game changer imo either way. what am I not seeing that makes it stupid?

a majority of the people in this game have 'pve-syndrome' when pvping. The need their target sitting in front of them not moving, and if the target moves, the qqing begins. Hence where hard stuns come into play. If they changed all stuns to be mezzes that break on dmg, a majority of the people wont be able to finish people off, or even get kills anymore.

Honestly if you don't see how this would negatively impact the game then I think I'll be wasting my time to explain it to you.

 

Nerfing the crap out of stuns would make ranged stupidly OP. And would benefit the entire game in a negative way.

I find your arrogance to be on par with your ignorance.

Melee suffer most from being stunned.... and rooted... and slowed... and mezzed.

SO..

One of these is true:

• You have occasional bouts of idiocy that interfere with your daily life. It's a disease, and you ARE seeking treatment.
  
• You have no clue how to play this game, or how stuns were already turned into easymode WAAAY back because low-skilled players could not grasp the concept.
  
• You DO know how to play this game, and typing "ranged" was a mistake. You actually meant to type "melee". You are also one of those players who uses stuns as a crutch.
  

The fact is that rewarding the overuse of stuns was a horrible idea. Stuns should ONLY be used in a pinch situation, but now they are used as part of everyday rotations.

Stuns should be short in duration, only usable in a pinch.

(So.. like a reverse execute. Some stuns should only be usable when you are below a particular health level. It would reduce unskilled player dependence on them)

I find your arrogance to be on par with your ignorance.

 

Melee suffer most from being stunned.... and rooted... and slowed... and mezzed.

 

SO..

 

One of these is true:

 

• You have occasional bouts of idiocy that interfere with your daily life. It's a disease, and you ARE seeking treatment.
  
• You have no clue how to play this game, or how stuns were already turned into easymode WAAAY back because low-skilled players could not grasp the concept.
  
• You DO know how to play this game, and typing "ranged" was a mistake. You actually meant to type "melee". You are also one of those players who uses stuns as a crutch.
  

 

The fact is that rewarding the overuse of stuns was a horrible idea. Stuns should ONLY be used in a pinch situation, but now they are used as part of everyday rotations.

 

Stuns should be short in duration, only usable in a pinch.

 

(So.. like a reverse execute. Some stuns should only be usable when you are below a particular health level. It would reduce unskilled player dependence on them)

No, Evo is right, nerfing the crap out of stuns would make ranged totally OP.. They are already hell to a melee with roots and slows, making a melee have stuns break on damage means that ranged target you are hitting gets away, roots you, and then burns you down while you are trying to close the gap again.

As a melee, if you want stuns that break on damage, then I want roots and slows to 1) build resolve, and 2) break on damage too. That stun window is the only realistic window I have to dps you down (0-4m range), while you have a much further range to dps me down (0-30m range). If a ranged DPS actually had to contend with a minimum range, like a melee has to contend with a maximum range, then your argument MIGHT be somewhat valid. Since they don't, well...

As a melee, if you want stuns that break on damage, then I want roots and slows to 1) build resolve, and 2) break on damage too. That stun window is the only realistic window I have to dps you down (0-4m range), while you have a much further range to dps me down (0-30m range). If a ranged DPS actually had to contend with a minimum range, like a melee has to contend with a maximum range, then your argument MIGHT be somewhat valid. Since they don't, well...

I don't follow this logic. ranged (burst) need to cast most of their stuff. interrupt is off gcd for melee. melee attacks are instant. knights don't even have a stun that they can dps through anyway, and troopers have htl, a root break, and a regular breaker. in fact, my vg & pt eat up MM, gunnery, and lighting. I do, however, see a problem for deception and concealment as they are classes (especially concealment in the current state of the game) that depend greatly on controlling the tempo of the fight. this isn't a problem to me. stealth are the only ones I think should have good control. I'd also like the sin to be as squishy as the op in trade for that control.

honestly, if a ranged sees a melee running in from 35m away and the melee gets eaten alive on his way in (e.g., grav + FA + hib + demo), that's his own fault for coming at a ranged in the open. but up close? my stuns are just interrupts and roots (for AP PFT). as a general rule, every cast = 2 instant attacks. I usually win that race (with an int and 2 stuns-as-ints). still not sure what I'm missing...unless it's just the stealth melee issue....

No, Evo is right, nerfing the crap out of stuns would make ranged totally OP.. They are already hell to a melee with roots and slows, making a melee have stuns break on damage means that ranged target you are hitting gets away, roots you, and then burns you down while you are trying to close the gap again.

 

As a melee, if you want stuns that break on damage, then I want roots and slows to 1) build resolve, and 2) break on damage too. That stun window is the only realistic window I have to dps you down (0-4m range), while you have a much further range to dps me down (0-30m range). If a ranged DPS actually had to contend with a minimum range, like a melee has to contend with a maximum range, then your argument MIGHT be somewhat valid. Since they don't, well...

Maverick is right. Stuns help ranged characters stay at range. They do not help most melee characters kill ranged characters. Look at knights - they have no stuns unless they're d spec'd. If snipers and sorcs had no stuns they would die more vs my knights (and my shadow), not less. There would have to be some compensation if ranged dps lost their stuns. Healers survive vs my melee character by stunning/mezzing/snaring/rooting him and running away to cast channelled heals (unless they're operatives in which case they just stand there giggling unless I've got friends): without those most would also be in more trouble. I will grant that DPS operatives are currently dependent on backstabbing a stunned opponent - that's a crap design, not sure why anyone even likes that play style. DPS ops would also need compensation if they lost stuns (but they almost certainly need more oomf in the sustained dps anyways).

more like three (albeit not stuns): I can harpoon (30m pull), neural surge (2.5s), cryo grenade (4s). harpoon isn't a stun, but it does build resolve, which is why I count it.

 

I'm pretty sure a sin/shadow can get 3 in as well: spike (knockdown), electrocute (4s), low slash (2s?). I know I used to be able to do that on deception for sure (1.4), but I don't think I've played him 5 times post 2.0. lol

I agree with you that assins stuns are ridiculous, they can pretty much keep you locked up when they liquefy you. patch 1.4 was a silly patch and ruined the resolve system they had in place. they did it because it was easier than balancing the classes properly, so if someone is stun locked and burned down do to a fast TTK then the devs prayers were answered. pretty much turning some classes into a rogue with lock ups.

just wait until 2.4 rolls out and objectives are no longer an issue and its all about killing to win the game, players will be raging on the forums even more than they do now.

Maverick is right. Stuns help ranged characters stay at range. They do not help most melee characters kill ranged characters. Look at knights - they have no stuns unless they're d spec'd. If snipers and sorcs had no stuns they would die more vs my knights (and my shadow), not less. There would have to be some compensation if ranged dps lost their stuns. Healers survive vs my melee character by stunning/mezzing/snaring/rooting him and running away to cast channelled heals (unless they're operatives in which case they just stand there giggling unless I've got friends): without those most would also be in more trouble. I will grant that DPS operatives are currently dependent on backstabbing a stunned opponent - that's a crap design, not sure why anyone even likes that play style. DPS ops would also need compensation if they lost stuns (but they almost certainly need more oomf in the sustained dps anyways).

Haven't met a sniper yet that stunned my guardian.. Rooted, slowed, occasional flashbang yes, stun no. And if think guardian stuns aren't needed.. I guess you run solo. Work with a partner, one person stuns, other DPS's then you swap. Otherwise, yes converting stuns to mezzes on any melee, guardian, scoundrel, or shadow, means ranged will have all the tools to keep melee AT RANGE while DPSing them, while melee won't have any tools to keep ranged IN MELEE while DPSing them.

Hard stuns and mezzes are fine where they are. If they changed all stuns to be the equivalent of mezzes, you'd be eating twice as many of them to fill resolve as you do now, because mezzes fill resolve at approximately half the rate of hard stuns. It would only help you if you are taking damage, and would completely gut the stealth classes needlessly. Honestly people need to learn when to eat a stun and when to break it and it would be less of an issue. Here's a hint, popping your breaker with less than a white bar is asking for another stun/mez.

Haven't met a sniper yet that stunned my guardian.. Rooted, slowed, occasional flashbang yes, stun no. And if think guardian stuns aren't needed.. I guess you run solo. Work with a partner, one person stuns, other DPS's then you swap. Otherwise, yes converting stuns to mezzes on any melee, guardian, scoundrel, or shadow, means ranged will have all the tools to keep melee AT RANGE while DPSing them, while melee won't have any tools to keep ranged IN MELEE while DPSing them.

 

Hard stuns and mezzes are fine where they are. If they changed all stuns to be the equivalent of mezzes, you'd be eating twice as many of them to fill resolve as you do now, because mezzes fill resolve at approximately half the rate of hard stuns. It would only help you if you are taking damage, and would completely gut the stealth classes needlessly. Honestly people need to learn when to eat a stun and when to break it and it would be less of an issue. Here's a hint, popping your breaker with less than a white bar is asking for another stun/mez.

I didn't say they're useless. They are more useful (by the design of this game) by and for the non-melee (other than ops). Focusing a target whether you're ranged or melee is always easiest when that target is stunned. Duh.

Edit: My merc/sage/sniper loves painting stunned/rooted targets with target zone markers they can't just walk out of.

There is no problem with stuns anyway. People just need to play around them better.

 

And yeah, if you're 2v1 you might get annihilated in a double stun. And you should be. Because they are with 2.

Pretty ignorant response. When there is this many threads over the last 1.5-2 years about the amount of CC in the game, and the amount of players that have quit over it is an issue. Many people know how to play it but you still are CC'd way more than any other game I have played. There is no skill in killing a player who can't move or has limited control for half the match. The system sucks IMO and diminishing returns would be much better at this point. I know there are fan boys who will disagree but believe it or not you are the minority.

Hard stuns are a boring mechanic. But I don't think they can be replaced just yet - not in the EQ-model MMOs. But the negative impact of stuns can easily be mitigated by making them more counterable.

Stuns could be "converted" to mezzes on a full-Resolve target, ergo, would break if the full-Resovle target is damaged. Would alleviate the frustration with dying to a stunlock with full resolve. Expertise could provide extra damage mitigation while stunned. Many ways to make the most frustrating aspects of the stun mechanic less aggravating.

A simple and easy fix for it:

- stun breaker reset on death ONLY IN REGS (non-ranked).

- resolve back to pre 1.4.

Ranked players happy, pugs happy.

Hard stuns are a boring mechanic. But I don't think they can be replaced just yet - not in the EQ-model MMOs. But the negative impact of stuns can easily be mitigated by making them more counterable.

 

Stuns could be "converted" to mezzes on a full-Resolve target, ergo, would break if the full-Resovle target is damaged. Would alleviate the frustration with dying to a stunlock with full resolve. Expertise could provide extra damage mitigation while stunned. Many ways to make the most frustrating aspects of the stun mechanic less aggravating.

reduced damage on non damage break stuns is something I have been hooting about since patch 1.4, they should have added it in that patch from the get go. no one asked for the resolve change in 1.4, its silly that they haven't reverted it, esp with arenas around the corner.

reduced damage on non damage break stuns is something I have been hooting about since patch 1.4, they should have added it in that patch from the get go. no one asked for the resolve change in 1.4, its silly that they haven't reverted it, esp with arenas around the corner.

I agree with you about 1.4, I don't agree about reduced damage.

Actually alot of people whined on the forums about overlapping stuns instantly filling the resolve bar pre 1.4. Personally I agree with you that 1.4 was an unneeded change to resolve since people need to be punished for inappropriate use of stuns (overlapping stuns). Right now bads can spam stun on cooldown, without thinking, and they aren't punished with the target getting full resolve for doing it. That's the crux of the issue, not that there is too many stuns. Stuns haven't changed, Resolve was changed to lower the skill cap for bads who can't hold off the button for a strategic moment.

Pretty ignorant response. When there is this many threads over the last 1.5-2 years about the amount of CC in the game, and the amount of players that have quit over it is an issue. Many people know how to play it but you still are CC'd way more than any other game I have played. There is no skill in killing a player who can't move or has limited control for half the match. The system sucks IMO and diminishing returns would be much better at this point. I know there are fan boys who will disagree but believe it or not you are the minority.

Those people were bad and the game is a better place without them.

Sure, there is a lot of CC going on. But it's coming from both sides.

If you would just be tunneling damage all the time.. now that would be boring.

Deal with it. It's not an unfair system. And to be frank, much preferable over the endless CC you can take in WoW. Since there are like 10 different DR schools there you can keep people in your control for 30 seconds and sometimes even longer. Without exaggerating.

I agree with you about 1.4, I don't agree about reduced damage.

 

Actually alot of people whined on the forums about overlapping stuns instantly filling the resolve bar pre 1.4. Personally I agree with you that 1.4 was an unneeded change to resolve since people need to be punished for inappropriate use of stuns (overlapping stuns). Right now bads can spam stun on cooldown, without thinking, and they aren't punished with the target getting full resolve for doing it. That's the crux of the issue, not that there is too many stuns. Stuns haven't changed, Resolve was changed to lower the skill cap for bads who can't hold off the button for a strategic moment.

Do you have any idea how often it can happen to use a stun at the same time (or just about at the same time) as another guy? If you are NOT on voice chat to anounce "i am going to use a stun/mez/whatever" then the chances of this happening is good enough even for pro players.

Then another problem.... You have more then 1 player in a team (obviously). Punishing all the players in a team because 2 random guys (let's say 2) are bad its not a good thing. Those 2 players can white bar a jugg(hutball) and allow him to score.. So should 6 other players be punished because they got those 2 bad players (more then they are already for just having them in there team)?

That was a GOOD change for pugs. In pugs you can't control who you have in a team or anounce when you are about to use a CC so 2 of you don't fire 1 just about at the same time.

Bad play should be punished, random bad luck should NOT be punished or not even close as much (given the above things i said). Pugs vs Premade are bad as hell already... Don't give premades (voice chat) even more of a bonus...

Do you have any idea how often it can happen to use a stun at the same time (or just about at the same time) as another guy? If you are NOT on voice chat to anounce "i am going to use a stun/mez/whatever" then the chances of this happening is good enough even for pro players.

 

Then another problem.... You have more then 1 player in a team (obviously). Punishing all the players in a team because 2 random guys (let's say 2) are bad its not a good thing. Those 2 players can white bar a jugg(hutball) and allow him to score.. So should 6 other players be punished because they got those 2 bad players (more then they are already for just having them in there team)?

 

That was a GOOD change for pugs. In pugs you can't control who you have in a team or anounce when you are about to use a CC so 2 of you don't fire 1 just about at the same time.

 

Bad play should be punished, random bad luck should NOT be punished or not even close as much (given the above things i said). Pugs vs Premade are bad as hell already... Don't give premades (voice chat) even more of a bonus...

I run pugs and premades all the time, and just like everyone else pre 1.4 I learned to hold my stuns for strategic moments just to avoid white barring people so you could stun them when you really needed it. I'm sure if they rolled back the changes to resolve, most people would learn to hold back the stun button until they really needed it.

Does it punish the entire team because of perhaps a few bad players? Sure. Can people learn better? Yes. Sometimes negative reinforcement is more powerful of a learning tool than positive reinforcement. Get burned once and most intelligent people learn their lesson and don't get burned again. Resolve 1.4 dumbed down PVP, and made stuns a crutch instead of a tool. Neutering stuns will result in even more dumbing down, oh wait that's right, they're releasing arenas in 2.4, removing the strategy aspect of pvp entirely.. Nevermind, carry on..

PS. Premades already have an added bonus with the new resolve, in that they can overlap stuns/mezzes and keep you locked up far longer than they could pre 1.4. Sure your resolve lasts longer in that case, but it won't help you out much when they just blitzed down your healer during the entire time you were locked up.