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Pay2Win Space Missions ???


Dirtyshadow

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If it makes any of you feel better, the missions are a pain in the butt even with buying the gear. I felt like I wasted my real dollars after trying a few, lol.

 

I even saved the 300k in-game credits by not buying that one piece after talking to a guildie.

 

By Grabthar's Hammer... what a savings.

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Could you guys stop talking about WoW and focus the discussion on SWTOR??? i couldnt care less about WoW, i only worry about SWTOR and its development.

 

We were said, SWTOR would NEVER have P2W items on market, now we have, so i guess we deserve an explanation, as customers we have the right to know whats the direction the game is heading.

 

Im pretty sure BW will show up saying its not P2W because Space Missions are just an optional part of the game, not even one of its core systems, and its truth, at least they will admit the pussyness of Space Missions, but same can be applied to the rest of systems, thay are all "optional", you can PvP, but you dont NEED, so its optional.

 

Again ... easy question: Will we keep seeing P2W items on market?

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Am I reading and understanding the following right....

 

 

Grade 7 items I know of ingame cost a huge amount of daily / fleet commendations as well as pricey craftable objects... so giving them out day 1 of the new heroic space missions, in a Cartel pack...

circumventing all ingame crafting/grinding by throwing real world money at them...

is that not by definition "Pay2Win" Space Missions ???

:rak_02: :rak_02: :rak_02:

 

If only it was mini game then it would be okay.... wait thats right it is.

 

Don't forget those mission even with the gear are as hard as hell. Fact is they only added them because it didn't make any sense to force people to grind for them when they can just buy them for a mini game.

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This thread is full of BS and some here clearly have no idea what p2w means, because this is certainly not that.

Resident trolls aside, i'm amazed by some people's inability to think clearly with their own heads.

 

You sir obviously dont know what your talking about.

All the new gear for your ship costs A LOT of fleet comms to achieve,

You get Black-Hole comms after completing a mission

That = Pay2Win

 

People can pay money to go ahead and get all the best gear to roll content and get BH Comms, or the rest of the other players who choose not to, either have to farm or completely ignore it.

 

Or if Pay2Win isn't easy for you.

 

"shortcut"

"a method or means of doing something more directly and quickly than and often not so thoroughly as by ordinary procedure"

Edited by PunisherAS
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You sir obviously dont know what your talking about.

All the new gear for your ship costs A LOT of fleet comms to achieve,

You get Black-Hole comms after completing a mission

That = Pay2Win

 

People can pay money to go ahead and get all the best gear to roll content and get BH Comms, or the rest of the other players who choose not to, either have to farm or completely ignore it.

 

Or if Pay2Win isn't easy for you.

 

Telling the TRUTH to people. Good job.

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Telling the TRUTH to people. Good job.

 

Please linky to the officially accepted definition of P2W please, cause all I saw was a definition for a word that doesn't have a P, 2, or W in it.

 

BJ

Edited by BJWyler
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Yes, it is very clearly pay-to-win.

 

These are not "cosmetic" space parts. These are the best-in-slot space parts for straight up cash, circumventing all space end-game, all crafters, and all comm requirements. Pay to win space.

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Yes, it is very clearly pay-to-win.

 

These are not "cosmetic" space parts. These are the best-in-slot space parts for straight up cash, circumventing all space end-game, all crafters, and all comm requirements. Pay to win space.

 

And the new missions give BH comms so that carries over to non-space items being obtained by paying real world cash as a shortcut.

 

Edit: And some people are saying even after buying the packs that they still couldn't do the missions. So may be BioFAIL is starting a new trend. P2F = Pay 2 FAIL

Edited by Jacen_Starsolo
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I will if you will provide one to say otherwise.

 

Well, If I may jog your memory, I already stated that there is no officially accepted definition of the term, but I can provide links from semi-official resources that mention the topic and controversy:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtransaction

"Pay-to-win" is sometimes used as a derogatory term to refer to games where paying for in-game items can give the player an advantage over other players, particularly if the items cannot be obtained by free means.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#Criticism

Critics of the free-to-play approach are concerned that if players that paid for special items subsequently become better at a multiplayer game than those who did not purchase the same items, then it will not be as enjoyable as other games since players who paid more money are more successful than those who simply rely on skill.

 

http://www.danwei.org/electronic_games/gambling_your_life_away_in_zt.php

ZT Online

 

BJ

Edited by BJWyler
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I'll go and edit Wikipedia to say something else. People can put anything on there. Heck, they can put an entry that says your dad is really your mom.

 

All opinion. So why are you championing one side and not being unbiased?

 

And it's still more than you have offered up to this point other than your own personal opinion.

 

Because, by nature, opinions are biased based on personal preferences and feelings (did I really have to explain that to you). You are quite free to express your displeasure at the market based on your own personal feelings, but when you start throwing around terms like TRUTH, then I have a problem it and will express my opinion to the contrary and explain my justifications for feeling that way.

 

BJ

Edited by BJWyler
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"Pay-to-win" is sometimes used as a derogatory term to refer to games where paying for in-game items can give the player an advantage over other players, particularly if the items cannot be obtained by free means. "

 

Particularly but did NOT say EXCLUSIVELY btw, does it? Nope. Thanks. Even though it's WikiOPINIONpedia, it doesn't limit what it can be. And since the pay items lead to BH comms, it does fit the definition you provided. Again even though it's a loose one that had to use WikiEDITORIALpedia.

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Well, If I may jog your memory, I already stated that there is no officially accepted definition of the term, but I can provide links from semi-official resources that mention the topic and controversy:

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microtransaction

 

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free-to-play#Criticism

 

 

http://www.danwei.org/electronic_games/gambling_your_life_away_in_zt.php

ZT Online

 

BJ

 

Pretty much right on the money. There is no broadly accepted definition of P2W. It's whatever anyone wants it to mean for their purposes of rant, complaint, and QQ. The fact is that P2W is being used in this forum almost exclusively as a perjorative to prosecute a biased point of view AND every stale and used pet peeve complainers have about the game. It's not even being done in an entertaining manner either.

 

Folks, if you do not like microtransactions, then do not make use of them. Period. End of story. IF, you represent the majority view in the player base... then the huge decline in sales would send a message to the producer. Then again, there is no evidence you represent anything close to a majority view of the players of this game.

 

If microstransactions offend you even half as much as some of you portray... you should give up MMOs completely.....because in the near future all MMOs will be microtransaction based.

Edited by Andryah
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And it's still more than you have offered up to this point other than your own personal opinion.

 

Because, by nature, opinions are biased based on personal preferences and feelings (did I really have to explain that to you). You are quite free to express your displeasure at the market based on your own personal feelings, but when you start throwing around terms like TRUTH, then I have a problem it and will express my opinion to the contrary and explain my justifications for feeling that way.

 

BJ

 

There is more than one way for the word TRUTH to be used btw. I didn't say FACT, did I? So may be you should use more than WikiWILDDEFINITIONSHEREpedia for your word look up.

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"Pay-to-win" is sometimes used as a derogatory term to refer to games where paying for in-game items can give the player an advantage over other players, particularly if the items cannot be obtained by free means. "

 

Particularly but did NOT say EXCLUSIVELY btw, does it? Nope. Thanks. Even though it's WikiOPINIONpedia, it doesn't limit what it can be. And since the pay items lead to BH comms, it does fit the definition you provided. Again even though it's a loose one that had to use WikiEDITORIALpedia.

 

Nope again, I didn't say it was official, just from a source that has become accepted to be used as an official reference. Again, still more than you have offered other than your own personal opinion.

 

BJ

Edited by BJWyler
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Pretty much right on the money. There is no broadly accepted definition of P2W. It's whatever anyone wants it to mean for their purposes of rant, complaint, and QQ. The fact is that P2W is being used in this forum almost exclusively as a perjorative to prosecute a biased point of view AND every stale and used pet peeve complainers have about the game. It's not even being done in an entertaining manner either.

 

Folks, if you do not like microtransactions, then do not make use of them. Period. End of story.

 

If microstransactions offend you even half as much as some of you portray... you should give up MMOs completely.....because in the near future all MMOs will be microtransaction based.

 

Then why are you agreeing with him saying that is a broadly accepted definition then? You aren't saying the same to the other side, are you? We all know your bias knows no bounds.

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Nope again, I didn't say it was official, just from a source that has become accepted to be used as an official reference. Again, still more than you have offered other than your own personal opinion.

 

BJ

 

And it fits what is in the cartel shop for the space missions. Therefore the one you provided shows this term can be used here.

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At first, I was thinking "these new space missions will be tough, but doable with grade 6 upgrades, so this should be fun!"

 

Nope, they're glorified space-based gear checks. Your ship literally cannot do enough damage and take enough damage for some of these missions with anything less than a full set of grade 7 gear. Combine that with shoving the Proton Torpedo requirement down your throat and the crappy method of lock-on used for it (I have failed to fire torpedos countless times because of the delay in locking on combined with the jerky camera movement in some of the missions when you have short windows for firing them at bridges,) and these things are basically "pony up money to us, even if you're a subber, or prepare to pay at least 1500 fleet comms and at least 300k credits for most of a full set of grade 7 upgrades."

 

That's the thing that gets me - not only are two of them only creatable my cybertechs (which is a good thing, and a bad thing) but they also cost 700 comms for the schematics, probably more comms for the materials to make them from those boxes there, and the cherry on top? Two of the slots are only available in the Cartel Shop - the improved target jammer and the improved EMP blast.

 

They managed to find a way to gouge paying customers for space missions, and kill off the fun some casual players who actually enjoyed that aspect of the game had by turning it into a cashgrab.

 

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Sorry about that. It just annoys me that somehow "recommended" turned into "required" somewhere along the line, and nobody sent me a memo about it.

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This thread is full of BS and some here clearly have no idea what p2w means, because this is certainly not that.

Resident trolls aside, i'm amazed by some people's inability to think clearly with their own heads.

 

And I'm amazed by your denial. Obviously yours and mine definition of P2W differ.

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There is more than one way for the word TRUTH to be used btw. I didn't say FACT, did I? So may be you should use more than WikiWILDDEFINITIONSHEREpedia for your word look up.

Definition of TRUTH

1

a archaic : fidelity, constancy

b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance

2

a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality

b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>

c : the body of true statements and propositions

3

a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality

b chiefly British : true 2

c : fidelity to an original or to a standard

4

capitalized Christian Science : god

— in truth

: in accordance with fact : actually

 

Lot of "fact" thrown in there. From Merriam-Webster by the way.

 

And it fits what is in the cartel shop for the space missions. Therefore the one you provided shows this term can be used here.

 

Which one - the first implies that the term would apply when said items cannot be gotten for free - i.e. via in-game methods. All those items afaik can be obtained via in game for free.

 

The second implies a distinct advantage in PvP by using gear over skill. Again, that does not apply here because by the very nature of becoming skilled at a game, one must put in time and effort. Those who do not (i.e. buying "shortcuts") will not become more skilled as a result.

 

BJ

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At first, I was thinking "these new space missions will be tough, but doable with grade 6 upgrades, so this should be fun!"

 

Nope, they're glorified space-based gear checks. Your ship literally cannot do enough damage and take enough damage for some of these missions with anything less than a full set of grade 7 gear. Combine that with shoving the Proton Torpedo requirement down your throat and the crappy method of lock-on used for it (I have failed to fire torpedos countless times because of the delay in locking on combined with the jerky camera movement in some of the missions when you have short windows for firing them at bridges,) and these things are basically "pony up money to us, even if you're a subber, or prepare to pay at least 1500 fleet comms and at least 300k credits for most of a full set of grade 7 upgrades."

 

That's the thing that gets me - not only are two of them only creatable my cybertechs (which is a good thing, and a bad thing) but they also cost 700 comms for the schematics, probably more comms for the materials to make them from those boxes there, and the cherry on top? Two of the slots are only available in the Cartel Shop - the improved target jammer and the improved EMP blast.

 

They managed to find a way to gouge paying customers for space missions, and kill off the fun some casual players who actually enjoyed that aspect of the game had by turning it into a cashgrab.

 

Anyway, I'm done ranting. Sorry about that. It just annoys me that somehow "recommended" turned into "required" somewhere along the line, and nobody sent me a memo about it.

 

Those 2 can't be gotten from anywhere but the shop? I didn't check but if true, you just blew the lid off those elite defenders.

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First, if you're a subscriber, you get free cartel coins. Everyone seems to forget that.

 

Second, how you do in your Space Missions doesn't effect me or my gameplay at all. I'm not going to buy anything, but if someone wants to drop the cash into the game and help keep it alive, good.

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Definition of TRUTH

1

a archaic : fidelity, constancy

b : sincerity in action, character, and utterance

2

a (1) : the state of being the case : fact (2) : the body of real things, events, and facts : actuality (3) often capitalized : a transcendent fundamental or spiritual reality

b : a judgment, proposition, or idea that is true or accepted as true <truths of thermodynamics>

c : the body of true statements and propositions

3

a : the property (as of a statement) of being in accord with fact or reality

b chiefly British : true 2

c : fidelity to an original or to a standard

4

capitalized Christian Science : god

— in truth

: in accordance with fact : actually

 

Lot of "fact" thrown in there. From Merriam-Webster by the way.

 

 

 

Which one - the first implies that the term would apply when said items cannot be gotten for free - i.e. via in-game methods. All those items afaik can be obtained via in game for free.

 

The second implies a distinct advantage in PvP by using gear over skill. Again, that does not apply here because by the very nature of becoming skilled at a game, one must put in time and effort. Those who do not (i.e. buying "shortcuts") will not become more skilled as a result.

 

BJ

 

There was nothing that said PvP in your Wiki definition. I'll reprint again: "Pay-to-win" is sometimes used as a derogatory term to refer to games where paying for in-game items can give the player an advantage over other players, particularly if the items cannot be obtained by free means. "

 

Where in there does it say the exact letters P... v... and P? You put that standard out there, remember a few posts back? So you get to imply stuff in definitions but others can not. I just need to know what other rules you set down to give yourself an advantage in this. I just want to know what I'm working with.

 

Oh, and 2b btw.

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