Ok, let me start by saying I'm a returning player after around a one year break and using this game to kill time until the next WoW expansion (Killing Heroic Garrosh loses its charm after a while). However I have come across a disturbing trend amongst the healers when tanking "Flashpoints" (I'm at level 36 if that gives you a point of reference) at this time. There is a lot of them that refuse to heal, until they receive the "guard" ability.

 

Now my "Train" of thought is this ability is best used on the highest DPS of your current party to maximise there efficiency, as healers generate the lowest amount of threat. As far as I am aware a heal generates 0.5 threat per 1 point of health healed, divided amongst the mobs in a pull. So in conclusion, as long as the "Tank" or "DPS" is hitting the mob, healing aggro should not be a problem.

 

Soo, unless this information is wrong ( and if it is please explain why! I wanna learn!) Why do so many players believe healers should be guarded over the DPS?

Guard increases the amount of security the healer feels in any given situation allowing them to freely heal without worrying about other less important things.

 

Think of it more as a comfort blanket because the dps aren't going to be pulling agro any time soon

There is no general consensus of what is best practice...

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=678624

 

but really it should be up to the tank to decide who to guard or not guard at all.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Banegio

There is no general consensus of what is best practice...

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=678624

 

but really it should be up to the tank to decide who to guard or not guard at all.

You show me a player that insists that guarding the healer is the best thing to do, and I'll show you many more that will argue with math why it isn't (for most fights).

 

Skornlord is 100% correct. Healing threat is 1/2 of effective healing, divided among the mobs present in the encounter. Also, note that effective healing does NOT include overheal.

 

Here are some of the main the reasons why many players continue to insist that guarding the healer is the best way to go:

 

1. An unguarded healer is getting attacked by mobs and thinks it will help.

2. The healer getting hammered by mobs wants the 5% general damage reduction.

3. The player misreads the tooltip and thinks the 25% damage transfer works outside of PvP.

 

Now, the healer getting attacked by mobs is not due to a lack of guard. It's because NOBODY ELSE IS ATTACKING THE MOB. Therefore the healing threat is right at the top of the aggro table for the mob in question.

 

Let's look at the math of how easy it is to keep aggro away from a healer.

 

Take the first big pull in HM FE. 2 sith mauraders, 2 big droids, 3 ranged in the back. Let's just pretend for the sake of the argument that you're healing 1500 hps. 1500 * 50% / 7 = 107 threat per second. A dps can beat that with occasional free attacks while having tea and scones with his teddy bear.

 

It's simple. If the healer has aggro, the other players in the group are not doing their job.

 

Now, one thing I can say for certain is, in many cases guard is not needed at all. When I first got my Shadow tank to 50 (wayyyy back), I wanted to practice holding aggro. I was moderately geared (few pieces of Columi and a couple pieces of Black Hole). I queued for the group finder and ran a dozen pugs. I never guarded anyone (on purpose).

 

With using my standard rotation, and taunts as needed, I was able to keep aggro away from the healer. If the dps had

gold fever it would make my life a bit more difficult, but I would keep my area taunt in my pocket just in case.

 

So. With the fact than in many cases you don't even NEED guard, it truly doesn't matter if you put it on the healer, the dps, or nobody. Heck, use it as a placebo if you want.

 

This is different from saying it is a GOOD IDEA. Which it isn't in most cases.

Edited January 24, 2014 by Khevar

That's right. I don't play tanks but when I play healer and get guard I kindly ask tank to guard DPS.

Also, yesterday I was playing Directive 7 fp as Sentinel and I was getting aggro even if I and tank attacked same enemy and tank would have leapt first. Tough I had 7k more HP than tank so I maybe saved him for few deaths but still:-P

The only time a guard is required on a healer in flashpoints is when dps have gold fever and leaving bunches of weak mobs beating on the healer.

 

DPS your job is to kill all the weak mobs while the tank gets control of the dangerous ones, this means getting agro off the healer if necessary. If you don't then the healer has no alternative than to ask for a guard as a little bit of extra insurance when taking a lot of threat from multiple weak mobs.

 

TLDR: If dps do their job properly the healer never needs guard in flashpoints.

If dps are blithering idiots, put it on the healer.

When I heal, I want to see the guard going on the dps who is taking the most agro, and it becomes apparent very quickly which dps this will be. A guard on that player has the potential to make my job as a healer so much easier than it would be if the tank had just stuck the guard on me. I don't enjoy healing both a tank who is taking large amounts of damage, and a dps who is continually close to death due to stealing agro from the tank. If I'm taking large amounts of damage, I can use my threat drop or run to the tank, but I really just need the mobs that are hurting me to be dealt with by the dps. DPS need to learn to perform their role to assist in reducing the damage taken by everyone but the tank, but in lower level content in particular this is sometimes too much to expect. If a lower level tank puts a guard on me, I think its nice that they know they have one and bother to use it, but they'll soon be told if it needs to go on someone else.

A tank who gives up his guard upon healer's demands is not a good tank. Initiate a vote kick on the healer. That usually sobers them up.

I have recently been kicked from a 55 HMFP, as a tank...yes thats right kicked as a tank....for refusing to guard the healer...My tank has 42k HP, and I was running with 2 dps around the 30k hp mark and a healer around 32k hp, and they kicked me for not guarding the healer.

Because people assume that because the healer is the squishiest, they need the damage mitigation most. And (mostly) no one's explained calmly and rationally to them otherwise, and their experiences in low level flashpoints, at least, lead them to be very wary of trusting tanks to actually hold aggro and dps to actually kill the adds that mob the healer.

 

I do think that healers who flatly refuse to heal unless things go their way are being utterly ridiculous. Particularly if things are explained calmly. I do have some trouble believing there are that many of them (of course, since I'm usually the healer, I guess I wouldn't know.)

 

I do know that for the longest time I just assumed I was supposed to be being guarded. I wouldn't make a big fuss if I wasn't, but for a while in the mid levels, it did seem easier on me if I was guarded (of course, the alternative was usually that no one was guarded). Especially on trash mobs, I tended to pull aggro off the tank more than the dps in mid levels, before I had an aggro dump. I even read guides and things that seemed to reconfirm that I was supposed to be guarded. There's a lot of misinformation out there, and sometimes it seems to come down to one side going "DPS should be guarded, duh!" versus "healers should be guarded, duh!" which really doesn't help people understand why guard should go on the dps.

 

Basically, people are often still learning. In a perfect situation, certainly, the dps almost always need guard more than a healer. But in the lower levels there's no guarantee that the tank, dps, and healer know what they're doing, and as a healer it's nice to know that the tank is looking out for you somewhat, and that you'll have a few extra seconds before you go squish from all the adds the dps are ignoring trying to eat you.

 

So explain. Calmly. Ask if they mind trying it your way once. If you wipe because the healer goes down, maybe the dps are at a state where guarding the healer won't make things worse and might make things better.

 

TL;DR Most of them don't know any better, and people have only tried to browbeat them, rather than explaining. There's lots of correct seeming misinformation out there. Also, low level flashpoints can be brutal for healers depending on the gearing and skill of the tanks and dps. If a tank is actually using guard, it probably means he's one of the better ones.

Worse is tanks that don't use Target of Target and hence have no idea that my dps has been tanking the boss for 10sec...And when I tell them the need hold aggro, they reply that they are.

Almost exactly one year ago I made this very same thread:

 

Guarding the Healers

 

Basically the consensus was, people have no idea how threat is generated, what threat modifiers are, etc...

 

Mostly healers cry about thrash pulls, and trash will go for the healer even if you somehow managed to stack every threat reduction buff in game on him. However, regardless of guard, as soon as damage dealer or tank so much as sneezes on the mobs they will leave the healer alone.

 

For the most part:

• If everyone in the group is roughly at the same level of gear and skill guard is not needed at all.
  
• If a damage dealer is significantly better geared or skilled than the tank, guard him.
  
• If no one has any idea of what they are doing, by all means put the guard on the healer, it's going to be a disaster anyway...
  

Biggest problem is that both camps are speaking in what ifs.

 

Must guard the DPS camp

They operate under the assumption that the tank is not doing his job or that the dps will overaggro the tank. This camp uses the threatreduction as their main reason why you need to guard a dps.

 

Must guard the Healer camp

They operate under the assumption that the DPS are not doing their job, leaving the weaker enemies bash on the healer. This camp uses the damagereduction as their main reason why you need to guard a healer

 

If you want to dig deeper you have some inbetween camps but suffice to say that there's no real agreement. Else everybody would guard the DPS from the start or the healer. Neither is happening.

 

What to do as a tank

When you play with friends whom you know are skilled and might overaggro give them a guard. In ANY OTHER case start with guarding the healer or nobody.

Every member of your group is a stranger to you so you won't be able to tell who and if they are going to rip from you. Don't be afraid to guard the healer in this case since its always better to guard something. This places both DPS on an equal playing field.

Now you need to watch the HP bars of the DPS and healer. If either of them takes more damage than intended you a. may have been overaggroed and the DPS took damage from your adds. Or b. the DPS are tunneling on the strongest, leaving the weaker enemies which were to far away for you to control on the healer.

 

IF the DPS overaggro you give them a guard since the threatreduction is the better alternative.

IF the DPS are tunneling and not pulling aggro keep the guard on the healer to ease your job as a tank and to give the healer a 5% damagereduction.

 

Other cases/fights

In some fights its best to guard the squishiest member of the group. Most likely this will be the healer. Some examples of this are:

Mandoraiders - (boss with doggies) - DPS will never overaggro you here since they beatup the dogs and not the boss itself

Cad - Wookieboss - healer has a high risk of pulling aggro from the adds, damage reduction is nice for them.

Hammerstation last boss - guard a melee DPS in here since ranged and healer will take no/lesser damage

 

Operations

guarding in operations is even much much more variable. At times you will even guard your co-tank (examples/ Nevra/Draxus/Grobbie if you feel the need for it).

 

TL&DR

ERGO; Base your guardbehaviour upon each bossfight and each groupmember. Dont ever follow a static rule of guarding someone upfront.

As a last precaution. Don't worry if people will bash you on the forums for following this strategy.

tl&dr

ergo; base your guardbehaviour upon each bossfight and each groupmember. Dont ever follow a static rule of guarding someone upfront.

As a last precaution. Don't worry if people will bash you on the forums for following this strategy.

 

this^

I recently leveled an agent healer to 55, my previous toons were 2 DPS and a tank. Having played all roles now, I appreciate what each role needs from the others in order to succeed. (My favorite role is still DPS).

 

My experience in HM flashpoints as a healer goes one of two ways: either I sit back and heal away, focusing mostly on the tank, and draw little to no threat, or I nearly immediately die because mobs are all over me once I start healing. This is irrelevant of whether a guard is on me or not. As many have said, if the DPS aren't targeting lower level mobs, they surge onto the healer. Guard doesn't help much in that case.

 

As others have said, the burden is on the tank and DPS to hold threat- the tank on the bosses and high-level mobs, and the DPS on the rest. If they don't do that, the healer will immediately die. I find it hilarious when a vote kick is initiated on the healer because "you're dying too fast". It's even funnier when it comes from the tank, who should know better. Dying fast is usually not the healer's fault. On the other hand, it is a pleasure to be in a group where everyone knows their role.

There are only two times where it makes sense to guard the healer.

 

1. When it is a fight with something with no aggro table or lots of "focus fires" where aggro table is ignored to go after a random player and tank can stay close enough for the healer to benefit from the damage reduction.

 

2. When the healer is so overgeared compared to the rest of the group that he/she is able to keep the group healed and is doing more DPS than the DPS. This usually happens when leveling up but does on occasion happen in HM FPs.

 

That being said I don't really get my knickers in a twist over it. If I'm healing and the tank guards me I don't worry as in almost every circumstance I can keep the DPS up even when they pull agro. If I'm tanking and the healer is being a whiny ***** I'll throw it on them. Not like anyone is likley to pull from me anyway and if they do it isn't for long. If I'm DPS and I'm pulling aggro and the healer can't keep me up I just suck it up, lay off DPS a bit to let the tank build aggro, make sure I'm using my aggro drops, use my defensive cool downs and pray.

 

Just not worth the arguments from people who don't understand the mechanics.

Healer since launch, never asked or wanted the guard. I cry when they put it on me in the few Operation fights where it makes sense to guard the healer.

 

2. When the healer is so overgeared compared to the rest of the group that he/she is able to keep the group healed and is doing more DPS than the DPS. This usually happens when leveling up but does on occasion happen in HM FPs..

Still don't want or need the guard.

... Biggest problem is that both camps are speaking in what ifs.

 

Must guard the DPS camp

They operate under the assumption that the tank is not doing his job or that the dps will overaggro the tank. This camp uses the threatreduction as their main reason why you need to guard a dps.

 

Must guard the Healer camp

They operate under the assumption that the DPS are not doing their job, leaving the weaker enemies bash on the healer. This camp uses the damagereduction as their main reason why you need to guard a healer

 

...

There is a third camp.

 

Frustrated at players that don't understand how threat works

 

Most of the "guard the healer" posts I've seen aren't talking about the minor damage reduction. They're generally talking about the threat reduction. "Guard the healer, he keeps pulling aggro" etc.

 

This is trying to fix the wrong problem. It's like, "the boat keeps filling with water, get bigger buckets!" instead of "the boat keeps filling with water, PLUG THE LEAK"

 

Now, if guarding the healer actually WERE a solution for a bad pug, that would be fine. But it isn't. The only reason the healer is getting hammered is that the other players aren't attacking the mob. Guard won't do anything. Heck, guarding the dps won't do anything EITHER.

 

To me, it's not a matter of "guard the healer" or "guard the dps". It's a matter of, "if your healer is getting ******, asking for a guard isn't going to fix the *********** problem!"

Think of it more as a comfort blanket because the dps aren't going to be pulling agro any time soon

 

On my sin if I don't wait a good 3-4 seconds after the tank's initial pull on a boss I always end up pulling aggro from my burst making my aggro spike above that of the tank. Generally the first boss that it happens on, the tank just shrugs it off and we move on. Then when I do it again, and again, and again, the tank just gives in and gives me guard so it stops being a problem.

I think my favorite situation dealing with this mindset was a DPS rage quitting SM Hammer Station because I, the tank, hadn't put a Guard in the Healer, who was a friend of mine (and on voice with me at the time). It was a DPS Shadow who went into tank stance to slap Guard on the Healer and then couldn't understand when I called b. s.

 

I used to be of the "Guard the Healer!!!" camp until I started tanking Operations, but as someone else suggested: doing PUG flashpoints, more than anything, the tank needs to evaluate the situation and use their best judgement. If the DPS are ignoring the adds and going top->down, then the tank should be doing their damnedest to gather up and hold threat on every enemy in the mob to keep it off the Healer. And if that's still not enough, then put Guard on the Healer and let the DPS occasionally have to eat the damage from potentially ripping aggro off the tank because they're not doing their job.

I did a flashpoint on my Vanguard tank two days ago.

before we started healer was demanding guard as protection from adds. Throughout whole flashpoint he was hit maybe few times on one pack when i didn't tanked that well but he lost max 1/3 file and this one only pack for whole flashpoint that he got hit from adds.

 

Midway thru the flashpoint as asked him does he still thinks he needs that guard, he never replayed.

 

When we finished he said:

"You should of guard me as I had least health"

and then he quickly left the group.

Macio you surely know polish writer who said "Before I knew the Internet I didn't know there were so many idiots out there." :-)

 

There are lots of people whose fault is not that they don't understand game mechanics, it's that they don't understand and they think they do. I stopped complaining on my healers if I do any FP as I always get a guard from randoms.

Macio you surely know polish writer who said "Before I knew the Internet I didn't know there were so many idiots out there." :-)

 

There are lots of people whose fault is not that they don't understand game mechanics, it's that they don't understand and they think they do. I stopped complaining on my healers if I do any FP as I always get a guard from randoms.

 

I don't know this writer even though i know a lot of them, but he speak the truth ...

I'm just going to say as a 50% min/max 78 DPS. If I see a tank that guards the healer I play a simple game of Sage Tank and burn as many cool downs as possible on the first boss pulling threat. I find it hilarious. Now if I have a tank that guards me or another geared dps I will kindly drop threat as well as let the tank build before nuking a boss. I don't need to do the FP's they have nothing for me but fun. I figure its a learning experience for some of the players to see what end game dps is like for threat.

 

What I really find amusing is when you run into a really bad tank that can't hold agro and I am actually threat droping on cooldown even force barrier and they start ************ in party. That makes me laugh. Sorry tank rant. But I do love a good tank like the op sounds to be.

My solution is this: You get one tank to queue as Tank, and another to queue as DPS. Then you guard the healer AND the DPS, and everybody stops b*tching.