i think exactly the opposite.

 

lol edit: I think exactly the same. dur.

 

every map in ranked play sucks. in hb (assuming you have the requisite comp), it comes down to throwing grenades in mid and holding off on scores until your shadow is ready to throw a grenade and pop resil. boring.

 

in nc, it comes down to who wins the race to mid and pops his grenades first. once mid is decided, it's game over. boring.

 

ahg is the worst of them all. spend 3-4 rounds standing outside the "hot box" trying to pull enemies out for focus fire. what could be a fun version of CW down to the wire becomes the biggest waste of time in pvp.

 

as already mentioned, cw comes down to who caps natural node first (must have combat trans + shadow sprint). then spend the rest of the wz tying up mid. there's literally one option: do we pull the goalie? and when?

 

regs, on the other hand, are not reduced to one lowsy strat, whether you use grenades, whether you have an exactly right comp, and they allow for comebacks.

 

I totally agree with op about CW, btw, it's stupid to spend half the wz already having lost cuz you need a 3-cap. a slight tweak in the rules and possibly elimination of the side speeders is all that is necessary to remedy the situation.

It's not like this is the only game where high level play makes the game boring. Pool, Poker, Bowling, Baseball? All way more interesting to watch, and more nail biting to participate in, at lower than top tier play because at top tier play the way things tend to work out, a match can be decided very early on with the drawn out slow loss to make official what everyone has known for awhile.

On the other hand, top tier play is also the only time top tier players can truly get any competition. Those top tier teams will steamroll anyone who CAN'T ensure mid goes uncontested for forever in ACW.

Regs allow for comebacks because they have a mix of good and very subpar players because for every miraculous comeback, there's a defense that screwed the pooch.

To reference your list:

I don't actually find huttball that boring in ranked. Both teams can have shadows throw grenades and pop resilience. The game is definitely won and lost at mid though, and knowing when to concede a score. There's a lot going on in a good huttball match actually, and I've been involved in way more (per capita) 0-0 regular matches where neither team can find their butts with both hands long enough to score over ranked matches.

Novarre, yes it's ultimately decided at mid, but that's the point. It's decided at mid in the zerg. CW is determined by who is fractionally decided by who gets to their natural turret first. Novarre allows interesting strategies because if it's a stalemate at mid the game forces you to come up with some way to change that, usually by pressuring their node without giving ground mid. Also some teams send a token force (usually a tank and healer) to harass mid and keep people slowed up while performing a mass assault on the off turret. Overall a much more dynamic game than ACW, and of course we've all been apart of 2%-0% victories (and losses) in Novarre.

Voidstar is either about luck at the door or who can deathmatch better sadly given the tie mechanic. At least it isn't entirely trivial to keep up a good defense unlike mid in civil war, but yes obviously top tier play here reduces to deathmatching.

That makes ancient hypergates both superfluous and kinda weird, though at least a known conclusion doesn't last for 10 minutes since the team that's better at death matching will grind out their win in 4 rounds, and I've seen more comebacks in this warzone since properly defending your own Pylon can sometimes lead to conceding that little bit extra ground at mid which tips the deathmatch scales in their favor.

Either way, none of the others suffer from a foregone conclusion in the opening 10-20 seconds which then gets drawn out for 20 minutes like Civil War does.

The ranked matches with the top BC teams go as following:

(1) Civil War: it's all mind games, adjusting/responding, and composition. The match is decided by who can get a side first and then pointlessly slug it out at mid until the losers need to try something so desperate that they MAY lose the node.

(2) Voidstar: Everyone respeccs and the offense-team has a ridiculous amount of DPS and defending team has a lot of healers/tanks, but the door-mechanic allows the offense to respawn much quicker. This allows for some very exciting (though frustrating) matches.

(3) Novare: Unless there's a huge disparity of skill/gear/awareness, it's mostly who can (1) CC more and (2) take advantage of the side nodes best to capture and hold mid. I hate it because I hate CC (odd, since I'm a scoundrel)

(4) Ancient Hypergates: PvPers were asking for a deathmatch, and they got one. The doors are so long that if you start losing ground at mid, you're pretty much screwed, but you can't really back out because that allows orbs (4 orbs = a complete wipe of the team in points) to be captured. It's possible to do work at the sides if you have some extra stealthers. Pretty interesting match.

(5) Huttball: the cream of the crop. Sick of assassins always getting the ball at mid? Tell your vanguard to tail 'em. Sick of the sages always getting pulls? Tell your juggernaut to knock them off. Sick of X, do Y. It's always changing, always morphing, always making your team think on their feet. Sure, there's a certain "minimum composition" requirement, but after that it gets great.

I'm going to have to disagree

 

Last night I played in one of the best CW matches ever.

 

we lost, the other team had 20 points left.

real nail biter, it came right down to the wire and we made them work their butts off for that win.

 

yes there is a point of no return, and that is part of the charm of the WZ.

 

matches like that one make civil war my favorite WZ.

Actually - I'm with you on this. I've had great Civil War matches. But they are so few and far between that I think a redesign is needed.

The good matches only show how enjoyable a WZ it would be if the mechanics were tweaked to make them more likely.

T

 

(2) Voidstar: Everyone respeccs and the offense-team has a ridiculous amount of DPS and defending team has a lot of healers/tanks, but the door-mechanic allows the offense to respawn much quicker. This allows for some very exciting (though frustrating) matches.

I've asked this before in other threads but this thread has far more intelligent folk and fewer trolls so I go at it again ...

I agree with the above. Do you think allowing respec before the WZ starts and then having to stick with that spec through both offense and defense phases would make the match more interesting or less? I think it would be more interesting if you could not respec at half time. There would be tension between offense and defense in chosing a spec.

I honestly don't think it would make much difference.

I also like the variety it offers to be honest since it allows one of the few chances when, say you're shadow, doesn't have to just spec as a tank hybrid and solo guard.

Alderaan Civil War can be fixed by taking a note from Ancient Hypergates. Make all three turrets reset to neutral every 4-5 minutes. They need to be recaptured before they start firing again. Also, when the side nodes are reset, the side speeders are no longer available until that node is recaptured.

The opening rush to capture the nodes in CW is actually quite interesting. Each team is trying to figure out how to get numbers-up on two out of three nodes. The problem is that the penalty for either bad guesswork up front, or bad execution in those crucial first minutes is that you lose the whole game. By having the turrets reset, then the teams have to repeat the numbers gambit multiple times during the match, each time having knowledge of what happened earlier in the match. This way, even if you lose in the opening, your team has a chance to recoup.

Oooh, not the worst idea.

I'd also just like to see what removing the side speeders entirely would look like.

(4) Ancient Hypergates: PvPers were asking for a deathmatch, and they got one. The doors are so long that if you start losing ground at mid, you're pretty much screwed, but you can't really back out because that allows orbs (4 orbs = a complete wipe of the team in points) to be captured. It's possible to do work at the sides if you have some extra stealthers. Pretty interesting match.

I don't think this is quite right, but maybe I can learn something. all you need is a sniper, a couple of offensive pulls and a sorc pull. snipers range every other class, so as long as the sniper can reach the farthest orbs while in cover just outside the doorway, all you gotta do is protect him. if they stun him and you don't pull the stunner/puller who comes in range, just sorc pull your sniper right back. since your whole team is essentially outside of middle, it's more or less impossible to ninja the node on them. I've seen this scenario play out numerous times, and the only thing that affected it seemed to be players' mutual distaste for the boring tactic. but at a high level, you're not going to let lameness/boredom trump victory.

I think this turns into the worst friggin WZ in the bunch. at least the "useless" dm at mid in cw let's you do something.

:2cents:

Alderaan Civil War can be fixed by taking a note from Ancient Hypergates. Make all three turrets reset to neutral every 4-5 minutes. They need to be recaptured before they start firing again. Also, when the side nodes are reset, the side speeders are no longer available until that node is recaptured.

Very interesting idea!