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Before the cross-server LFG system I tended to know a lot of people on my server because I grouped with people on my server. When the cross-server LFG tool hit I got surrounded by strangers with whom I was never able to meet again even if I wanted to since there wasn't a way to /friend them even if they were nice.

 

I completely agree. To expand upon this, not having it cross realm created the sense of a server community. Each server had something different and unique. People that grouped up, if someone did ninja an item, it eventually got around and had its consequences, in that people would know who the good and nice players were, and knew who not to group up with.

 

EDIT: This is not the original posting, that is the next thread below. This thread was placed as the first posting due to a time stamp bug in the forums at the time of replying to a posting.

Edited by Ohnoto
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IGN: Moving forward might there be something like a group finder or something like that? An auto-finder implemented into the game?

 

James Ohlen: Some people ask for a dungeon finder system but the thing about those systems is they're really for more of a mature online game. If you put a system in early on it really takes away from the exploration of the level up game. If you have people all just basically waiting around their dungeon finder and all being grouped up together, they're going to actually take the time to explore all the worlds that are available in the Old Republic galaxy. So it's definitely a feature that we want to put in, we just want to put it in at the right time. However, the looking for group feature is something that we continue to work on, we want to make that more robust and more powerful.

 

 

http://pc.ign.com/articles/121/1214438p1.html

 

 

Dear Mr. Ohlen,

 

I recently read this interview and was quite concerned about this section of it. I completely realize and understand that in today's MMO market, most every game is doing their form of a Dungeon Finder feature with auto-grouping to assist with getting groups quickly. While in your interview, you said the right time, I hope that it is also done the right way.

 

Prior to the forum wipe I saw more threads from other players strongly requesting to not have a cross realm grouping feature. While in your interview you did not state anything about cross realm, I strongly, strongly suggest that if implemented the grouping system does not include cross realm grouping.

 

I also suggest that the grouping does not automatically send you to the instance. As all the entrances are already based at fleet stations together, players can get back to them quickly through the travel to fleet ability (18 hour CD, I know.), shuttles while leveling, or binds back to ship docking bays.

 

I've personally played games longer without this feature than with it, and feel that with this feature it has ruined the immersion of the game. By doing this it has eliminated the need for exploration, as you stated also. It doesn't matter at what point a dungeon finder system is implemented, if done like this, it will ruin exploration.

 

In other games it has also reduced the full size of a game from the full world(s) down to the size of the major city players dwell in. Players feel that there is no reason to leave these cities because they can just queue up for the dungeon finder and wait for it to send them to their dungeon.

 

I am by no means opposed to having this type of system and would be all for it if it would create the group from players only on the same server and not automatically teleport them to the fleet station. I just would like to see this system done properly as many have requested and not be rushed in or done improperly (i.e. Surnames).

 

Thank you and good luck,

-- Ohnoto

 

__________________________________________________

 

I thank everyone that has voiced their opinion about this topic, one way or another in this thread.

 

Posting this, I knew that there are many who feel strongly one way or another. I have read through all of the replies here, through all of the debating between each other. This is ultimately, a healthy process, of debating and making points for both sides.

 

Something that I did not convey in my original posting was regarding the server community, and the friends made. The current "first" posting was put there through a bug in the forums that messed with the time stamp.

 

The argument brought up about creating friends, getting to know each other better is probably the strongest argument that can be made to not have a cross realm dungeon finder. Like others, I made friends while leveling by chatting in open channels. Many of those people joined my guild, and some of them I still chat with today. I can not tell you who anyone is that I met through a Looking for Dungeon feature. I can't tell you their character name, I can't tell you who they are.

 

As I stated in my original posting, I am all for this feature being within the same server and not cross server. However, once you do internal server, it is one step closer to that urge of doing cross server. It is a slippery slope here.

 

As several here, I began my MMO gaming in WoW before Burning Crusade. I have since played most major other MMOs, including F2P ones, even if just a 10 day trial. Prior to dungeon finder, general chat in zones was active, people would chat about doing group quests and dungeons. Much like the current zones in Star Wars. People are socializing!

 

After the cross realm dungeon finder was released in WoW, chat became non-existent. The mentality was to queue up while questing, do the dungeon, get your gear and get out. Absolutely no socializing occurs.

 

Don't believe this? Load up a trail of WoW, go to The Barrens, which once even had t-shirts devoted to what was known as "Barrens Chat", go to Westfall, go to Silverpine. All of these zones have dungeons for people to do. Just sit and watch the chat that occurs, sit and watch how people ask for doing dungeon groups. Sit and wait.

 

*crickets*

 

Absolutely no socializing in a Massively Multi-Player Online game.

 

After reading all these postings, I would propose to Bioware, to make the many happy, give us an option. Give players a choice. Let us decide when we queue up to look for others on our realm, or an option to look cross realm. Don't give us rewards for either, just let us decide where to draw our player pool from.

Dungeon Finder System Eventually - Page 7

 

__________________________________________________

 

If you are standing at the entrance attempting to recruit for a Flashpoint, you are doing it wrong. You should not be recruiting for Flashpoints from The Fleet. You may get a few, but you are advertising to a group consisting of players from 10-50. Instead you should go to the planet containing the Flashpoint's level range where you are advertising to the players that are in the same range to do the Flashpoint.

 

If there are 50 people at The Fleet, ranging from 10-50 it is not as much of a select group. If you go the planet of the level range and there are 50 people, there are more that would come because you are advertising to a more select group in that range. The problem with getting groups together is that people are just standing in The Fleet attempting to recruit and not venturing outside of that.

 

This is why there is a spot on every planet to shuttle people back to The Fleet quickly, and the Emergency Fleet Pass ability, pending it is not on cooldown.

Dungeon Finder System Eventually - Page 17

Edited by Ohnoto
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Sorry but I think the developer hit it right on the head. It wouldn't be right to put that into a game early on. However after the full content of the game has been explored, played, and witnessed I hate having to waste time traveling back to the same location every time I want to farm gear from a dungeon(flashpoint). Could you imagine the level of annoyance in WoW if you had to travel to Outworld every time you had wanted to do dungeons? I am personally happy they plan to implement in this way.
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As you mentioned WoW, I will compare to that. I don't like to compare this game to that, but I will. I played WoW during the "Classic" version before any expansions. The LFG tool that was implemented in WoW was introduced late in Wrath of the Lich King. So, I know very well what your example is like. I also know what it was like going back through the portals to get to instances in Azeroth from Outlands.

 

It seems that, thanks to other games, many just want to log in, press one button and be given everything. Whether that is loot, instant queue and teleportation to instances, and it ruins from the immersion of the game. I am in no way refering that you want that, but there are many throughout the gaming community that do want that, and many of them appear to be newer and younger gamers. Though that is how this generation has become, unfortunately.

 

However, new people will always be joining the game. Even now in WoW, while they are losing subscriptions, they are also gaining new players. These new players don't know anything different. They don't know what the game was before the WoW LFG system. They don't have to explore, they just have to queue and enter. Many of them wouldn't be able to tell you where the dungeon entrances are even at.

 

James Ohlen was exactly right in stating that it takes away from exploration and it does, but at what point to do you say exploration is not needed? At what point do you tell a new player, "You don't need to explore the game, hit this button and be taken there."

 

This may not be as big of an issue considering you enter all the flashpoints from The Fleet, but it ruined exploration in other games. I am a huge explorer in games and don't want that ruined here. I also enjoy seeing active worlds and not just seeing everyone in the major city.

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I think you are all crazy and trying to make something into nothing. Takes from the game... This game like all things in life will be what YOU make of it. Not ruined or great because of some dungeon finder. If I had a dungeon finder would it take from exploration. Hell no I would explore while I waited for the que. Should the dungeon finder be cross server? YES that was a stupid question if you ask me. More people = faster ques = more people wanting to play over the couple of antagonists that say otherwise. Its funny to me to watch people try and turn ridiculous points of personal preference into fact. In case non of you who are apposed to the easier dungeon systems have noticed. Its an MMO that means bigger than you and your little brood. If you dont like games where you cant always be the big fish maybe you should stop playing MMO's

 

 

 

The line between life and death are at best shadowy and vague, Who is to say where one ends and the other begins.

 

Zezv

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I agree with the developer,dungeon finder for later.I agree with no cross-realm grping.But for now what i strongly suggest its a LFG channel that broadcast to all planets and not only in Republic Fleet.Or a player created LFG channel, dont matter,what it really matter its that the channel broadcast globally. Edited by Vlado
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As you mentioned WoW, I will compare to that. I don't like to compare this game to that, but I will. I played WoW during the "Classic" version before any expansions. The LFG tool that was implemented in WoW was introduced late in Wrath of the Lich King. So, I know very well what your example is like. I also know what it was like going back through the portals to get to instances in Azeroth from Outlands.

 

It seems that, thanks to other games, many just want to log in, press one button and be given everything. Whether that is loot, instant queue and teleportation to instances, and it ruins from the immersion of the game. I am in no way refering that you want that, but there are many throughout the gaming community that do want that, and many of them appear to be newer and younger gamers. Though that is how this generation has become, unfortunately.

 

However, new people will always be joining the game. Even now in WoW, while they are losing subscriptions, they are also gaining new players. These new players don't know anything different. They don't know what the game was before the WoW LFG system. They don't have to explore, they just have to queue and enter. Many of them wouldn't be able to tell you where the dungeon entrances are even at.

 

James Ohlen was exactly right in stating that it takes away from exploration and it does, but at what point to do you say exploration is not needed? At what point do you tell a new player, "You don't need to explore the game, hit this button and be taken there."

 

This may not be as big of an issue considering you enter all the flashpoints from The Fleet, but it ruined exploration in other games. I am a huge explorer in games and don't want that ruined here. I also enjoy seeing active worlds and not just seeing everyone in the major city.

 

Actually blizz implemented a LFG tool in TBC but no one wanted to use it, even after they got rid of the LFG channel. Wrath brought about match making, porting, and cross server functionality. I disagree with the idea that a LFG tool, even with matchmaking takes away from exploration and gets people to just sit in a city. What gets people to sit in a city is the combination of teleporting, boring zones, better rewards from matchmaking, and it's more efficient. Take out teleporting and people can no longer sit in the cities. Don't offer a reward other then completing the instance and don't make it more efficient then world leveling, and people have even less of an incentive to be queue monkeys. And if you want me to explore the world, then don't stick all the instances on the fleet, that's kind of counterintuitive...

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I would support an LFG tool as long as it is server only. My experience was that a cross-server dungeon finder made people care less since there wasn't a consequence if someone wasn't nice in a party. When people played only with people on the same server the word 'reputation' had a meaning. With a cross-server LFG tool it's just "who cares if I leave/ninja I'll never gonna meet those people again anyway".

 

Before the cross-server LFG system I tended to know a lot of people on my server because I grouped with people on my server. When the cross-server LFG tool hit I got surrounded by strangers with whom I was never able to meet again even if I wanted to since there wasn't a way to /friend them even if they were nice.

 

Not using the LFG tool was not really an option since most people used it around me. We mostly sticked to guild runs with my guildies as PuGging was most of the time horrible via the Dungeon Finder.

 

I do not wish to argue over this, these are just my two cents.

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I personally would hate a dungeon finder, for the simple reason that it would end up like in WOW idling in Stormwind/Orgimmar until your queue pops. I used to love skirmishes at raid instance portals, which are relatively non existant with the rise of dungeon finder tools.
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Could you imagine the level of annoyance in WoW if you had to travel to Outworld every time you had wanted to do dungeons? I am personally happy they plan to implement in this way.

 

Yes.

 

And guess what, it wasn't annoying at all, jump on the flight point, grab a drink, jump into the dungeon, and IF you needed waiting, talk to your group members, set up some tactics, tell jokes, make friends (this was THE way to recruit new people before LFG ruined everything)! Finding people on the realm was much easier (you ended up having quite a few on your friends list that you knew were nice), avoiding annoying (euphemism here) people was also easier, in fact, the real *****s tended to leave the server fast because soon nobody would group with them or even want them in their guild.

 

I knew most of the active people on my realm.

 

Then came Wrath of the Lich King with it's cross realm dungeon finder.

 

Net results (some of them anyway):

  • Nearly no talking in groups, no jokes, no stupid pulls "for kicks". Just rushing through content, the faster, the better. If people said "hi" at the start "bye" at the end you had a seriously social group.
  • Ninjas ran rampant. Before LFG ninjaing meant that in no time you would not be getting any groups at all on that realm for a seriously long time. Now it just means getting booted from one group so you can start over with the next...
  • Frustration of ending up in a bad group and the way people dealt with said groups (badly and often rudely), see also next point.
  • Easier to quit and find an overgeared group than actually try to do the dungeon with the people you've got. Being a "quitter" earned you seriously bad rep back in the day, now it's standard procedure.
  • Total lack of support for newbies, back in TBC people mentored newbies, took time to explain the tactics etc, nowadays they're seen as ballast and often kicked because "they suck" or because people just can't be bothered with even the most basic explanation of a bossfight.
  • It heavily devaluated the rewards from dungeons. In TBC finding a group for MgT and actually completing it was a feat for most people, not to mention getting some of the neat loot from there. Now a dungeon is just a way to gain "dungeon points".
  • It mostly killed the social aspect of the game outside of your own guild.

 

Also after Wrath hit (or more correctly, when ICC was released) I moved realms, I raided there for like 6months. By the end of those ~six months when I decided to quit raiding I realized I knew NOBODY (no, I'm not being dramatic, literally NOBODY) on the realm even though I'm a fanatic "dungeoneer" and often pugged raids (even though I had no real reason to, being in one of the top guilds in the realm) and wasn't averse to PVP-ing either (though I despise arena).

 

No, I'm STRONGLY (to put it mildly, basically it's something I'd quit playing over) opposed to any form of cross-realm LFG.

 

EDIT: edited for lots of typos...

Edited by MareLooke
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I don't like the dungeon finder system, I personally prefer some control over my group make up / my group mates. If they put it in, I will likely just group with guildies, I have never had a good experience in a totally random DF group... always someone is AFK, or acting dumb, etc.
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Actually blizz implemented a LFG tool in TBC but no one wanted to use it, even after they got rid of the LFG channel. Wrath brought about match making, porting, and cross server functionality. I disagree with the idea that a LFG tool, even with matchmaking takes away from exploration and gets people to just sit in a city. What gets people to sit in a city is the combination of teleporting, boring zones, better rewards from matchmaking, and it's more efficient. Take out teleporting and people can no longer sit in the cities. Don't offer a reward other then completing the instance and don't make it more efficient then world leveling, and people have even less of an incentive to be queue monkeys. And if you want me to explore the world, then don't stick all the instances on the fleet, that's kind of counterintuitive...

 

Agreed. I remember having to run to instances in SWG on the planet of Kashyyyk, just to fight this General Grevious clone. Or was it the real him? Anyway, Even playing Ultima during 2TA I had to do a bit of exploration. I had help from guild mates to get to where we were going. I got lost for a bit till I found everyone, but I'm ok with that.

 

Maybe I'm ok with that because I look back thinking how much fun I had, but I know at the time I was probably winded you could say from trying to find my way through this impossible maze of different zones. But thats what made it fun.

 

I would not appreciate the world created if I did not have to go out and ride my horse on a road, through forests, deserts, mountains, and finally a cave just to get to the bottom to fight this giant monster.

If he lived next door to my house I'd have 100+ players waiting in que as they took up space on my lawn and sitting around waiting to get in the small 8x8 box they call the monsters house. That to me is not as fun, but it did give me a chance to sit and chat with guild members.

 

I have to say it's so true that the background goes under appreciated. Even when your there in the lair of the beast, but I hope gamers gain some persepective the reason we don't have a dungeon finder at the beginning of the game. I totally agree, let the game mature a bit when a large % of players HAVED explored the game before putting some sort of LFG system in.

 

Regardless a community is going to find a social hotspot to sit and ask around for a group for flashpoints or help.

 

I did see a small number of players sitting around the flashpoint NPC for Esseles during Beta, but that will be quite normal. Not to take away from anything you have said thus far on this thread OP. Hopefully adding to it.

Edited by SukeLywalker
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Actually blizz implemented a LFG tool in TBC but no one wanted to use it, even after they got rid of the LFG channel.

 

You're wrong, they didn't get rid of the LFG channel, they tied it to the LFG system. People DID use LFG, but mainly as a way to get into the LFG channel, because unlike Trade chat the LFG channel was GLOBAL.

 

Imho it worked a lot better than the thing we have had to live with since WotLK for reasons explained in my other post

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I personally would hate a dungeon finder, for the simple reason that it would end up like in WOW idling in Stormwind/Orgimmar until your queue pops. I used to love skirmishes at raid instance portals, which are relatively non existant with the rise of dungeon finder tools.

 

take out the ability to port and guess what, this goes away. that being said, this won't happen for FP's anyways since they are all on the fleet station.

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You're wrong, they didn't get rid of the LFG channel, they tied it to the LFG system. People DID use LFG, but mainly as a way to get into the LFG channel, because unlike Trade chat the LFG channel was GLOBAL.

 

Imho it worked a lot better than the thing we have had to live with since WotLK for reasons explained in my other post

 

Well you're right and you're wrong. When the tool first came out the LFG channel was still in existence, however no one used the tool so they got rid of the channel in an attempt to force people into the tool. People did not like this and so then blizz gave back the LFG channel but in order to use it, you had to be flagged as LFG. People still didn't like this so they just started spamming chat to find their groups.

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Has no one played a recent MMO other than WoW?

 

I played Rift before and after the LFG tool.

 

The devs created the tool since they noticed very few players compared to the total was taking advantage of the dungeon content. They tried a same-server LFG tool but it had serious limitations (small pool of players to draw from) so went to a cross-server tool.

 

Did it change the community? Absolutely. I was sad and happy at the same time. It was great to always group with the sample people but you know what? Over time, people played different toons, different factions, and different games. I'd spend a good part of my play time spamming chat and LFG.

 

The cross-server LFG tool allowed me to play in dungeons which is what I most like to do in MMOs. The necessity of this tool is a testament to how I guess many players don't like running dungeons. If they did, there'd have been a lot more using the same-server tool. Since there weren't, the devs had to make it crossserver.

 

Bioware WILL make a LFG tool. Sure they might try same-sever and no teleporting and no rewards for a while but eventually it'll be just like Wow's.

 

Why? Because it works to get players in groups. Simple as that.

 

Now then, hopefully I get EGA soon so I can start playing and spend less time in chat....:cool:

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I played Rift during its beta, I had a VIP beta key for it. At the time, I was completely burned out on WoW, and that was too similar. I have heard there have been major changes to differentiate itself from WoW. However, my understand is that Rift introduced their Dungeon Finder when they did due to lack of population on their servers. I may be wrong, and correct me if I am. All I am saying is that I don't think there will be a lack of people on these servers.
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A Looking for Group matchmaking system is fine. For those wanting community, don't use it, set up groups in chat, with people on your server or in your guild. For folks like me who run with guildies whenever possible, but don't have the 45min to an hour it took to get into a dungeon group by spamming general/trade/lfg, it was great! In my hour or 2 I have to play tonight due to work/kids I can actually run a dungeon if no one is online/feeling like doing it? Excellent!

 

Options are always better than no options. :)

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Pointless, its a pointless sistem, and i have no intrest in a game that uses it.

 

the sistem make no sence to start, and the only thing this helps is to destroy any kind of good, fun that is coused by an MMO it take any feel of an mmo and makes it feel more like L4D or some crap like that.

Edited by splices
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back in the old days you had to sit around spamming chat looking for a group. Most of the time, you never could get a group. Or you get a group, spend a hour getting to the instance, only to have someone drop, then you have to go back to the city and spam LFG, General, etc... Yeah, that sure was fun.

 

There are no rules which force people to use a dungeon finder / lfg tool. You want to feel nostalgic and spam general all day trying to find a group, go ahead. the majority of players do not want to.

 

BTW - this has nothing to do with world exploration. If there are fun/worth while things to do in the world, people will venture out. In WOW, there is nothing to do outside the cities once you are done leveling.

 

Maybe rather than porting into the instance, you should port to the nearest hub?

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I can see both main points for both sides.

 

The LFG tool is great for convience. There were many nights I did random PUGs after everyone else in the guild went to bed. I like running dungeons. I get my fill of the attitude people exude. But, ultimately, I still enjoy running dungeons in general.

 

The LFG tends to weaken group cohesion. This is mainly due to the attitude and lack of connection to the group mates. You will likely never see them again, so why invest more than the most absolute minimum. It matters less if you avoid every point of damage you possible can and to taunt every mod as best you can.

 

 

My suggestion would be to offer a LFG tool for conveience. But, to also offer some sort of bonus for making a premade group and actually walking up to the entrance to do the dungeon. I mean, gather 3 other players (not companions) and actually go there. Maybe you will get 10% more credits to drop or possible even a crafting doo-dad at the end.

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My suggestion would be to offer a LFG tool for conveience. But, to also offer some sort of bonus for making a premade group and actually walking up to the entrance to do the dungeon. I mean, gather 3 other players (not companions) and actually go there. Maybe you will get 10% more credits to drop or possible even a crafting doo-dad at the end.

 

I agree with this. I think the option to queue for dungeons should be available. Options are important. But with that said; I think people that choose to go "the extra mile" should be rewarded. It also rewards players for forming their own groups, and keeps the world a little more active. If a LFD system was added, I don't think you should earn social points in those groups. Maybe that stays reserved for pre-made groups.

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