Is 27/0/14 out of the running, then? The versatility of FiB plus survivability of Harnessed Shadows is pretty good combination, and unaffected by the loss of Force Strike.

Is 27/0/14 out of the running, then? The versatility of FiB plus survivability of Harnessed Shadows is pretty good combination, and unaffected by the loss of Force Strike.

 

Meh.

 

Let me weigh 27/0/14 versus 31/0/10:

 

Harnessed Force:

+ 30m range attack on three targets, 15s CD

+ +10-20% damage on Double Strike (+400 to +800 damage every 10s, assuming 3 double strikes)

- -15% damage on breach

- AoE slow

- Constant snare

- Effective spammable AoE damage on 5 targets

- +50% time spent to fully stack Harnessed Shadows (+1700 damage every 10s, +600 health every 10s)

 

Note all figures are very rough, but they're orders of magnitude better for Slow Time.

Which is the better route for healing ourselves in pvp?

 

Kinetic:

 

(Impact control + Harnessed Shadows)

 

or

 

Balance:

 

(Focused Insight + Force in Balance)

 

Thanks

Kinetic is going to have more self-healing, even after the patch.

I have noticed when I use Force Cloak when in a fight, the enemies I am fighting re-heal to full health. Is that part of the ablity or am I doing something wrong?

I have noticed when I use Force Cloak when in a fight, the enemies I am fighting re-heal to full health. Is that part of the ablity or am I doing something wrong?

 

Ooh, I should make note of that, sorry. Force Cloak takes you out of combat, so if you are the only player engaged in combat with that enemy, the enemy is also taken out of combat as if you had died.

To the TS: Thank you so very much for your excellent guides, they are probably some of the best I've ever seen.

Is that part of the ablity or am I doing something wrong?

As people said, you are doing something wrong. Not entirely wrong although

Most of the times if your companion dies on elite it might be fruitful to finish 1 or 2 adds and leave combat through stealth. Then dismiss companion and resummon him/her. That way you'll have your companion healthy in no time and those adds most of the time won't respawn. Somethines they do, but it worth a try anyway if you are in a bit of trouble.

Don't try restealth on elites though - your companion will instantly go into stealth as well

Great guide but I have a question, am I going to be a viable tank in PvE with a PvP spec (this one : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601rIMokMskrsZZf0cM.1 ) as long as I switch to a shield or would it mean I'd have to have 2 completely different sets of gear, one with lots of absorption/shield rating and the pvp set that's mostly crit/surge/power and 2 pieces of survivor?

 

I don't care about operations only HM's, that's what I mean by PvE just to clarify.

 

If the answer is yes, then I'll probably just stick to PvP and switch out that point in kinetic ward for something else.

Edited February 6, 2012 by Crazyeyedturtle

Yes, though if you do a LOT of HMs, you may wish to use the PvE spec - it's better at PvP than the PvP spec is at PvE.

Yes, though if you do a LOT of HMs, you may wish to use the PvE spec - it's better at PvP than the PvP spec is at PvE.

 

Thanks that's good to know, I switched to balance anyways and loving it...I'm addicted to respecing though so who knows if I'll switch back or not tomorrow or the next day lol

Great guide, thanks a lot, it saved me a lot of precious time. keep up the good work!

I've been playing my jedi shadow upto lvl34 as full infiltration but yesterday I decided to try out kinetic(only took balance upto upheaval). So far I'm liking it a lot and this guide has been very helpful on my path. I still miss some shadow skills though especially low slash.

 

I've been planning to go something like infiltration+little kinetic after I've played kinetic for a while. I only really need "Elusiveness 2/2" from kinetic. I duo a lot with my friend who is sentinel and I'm missing a lot of fights unless I have it.

 

Anyhow, I had a question other than build suggestions to go with elusiveness.

 

AstralFire: In your razer naga+keyboard binds, you don't have move back at all. How does that work? I often move backwards when fighting a target as part of the kiting. And what's your focus target modifier? And if you don't have any, why you have "Set Focus Target" bind? For observing? Where is your force slow?

Edited February 7, 2012 by shagatha

You need to update the xx/xx/31 Balance builds. Force Breach no longer have a cool down (if specced for it) while using Force Technique.

I've been playing my jedi shadow upto lvl34 as full infiltration but yesterday I decided to try out kinetic(only took balance upto upheaval). So far I'm liking it a lot and this guide has been very helpful on my path. I still miss some shadow skills though especially low slash.

 

I've been planning to go something like infiltration+little kinetic after I've played kinetic for a while. I only really need "Elusiveness 2/2" from kinetic. I duo a lot with my friend who is sentinel and I'm missing a lot of fights unless I have it.

 

Anyhow, I had a question other than build suggestions to go with elusiveness.

 

AstralFire: In your razer naga+keyboard binds, you don't have move back at all. How does that work? I often move backwards when fighting a target as part of the kiting. And what's your focus target modifier? And if you don't have any, why you have "Set Focus Target" bind? For observing? Where is your force slow?

 

Hi shagatha!

 

- Moving backwards is non-productive, because you move slower than while walking. I turn the camera and side-strafe instead.

- Yes, I use the Focus window for observing and click.

- Slow Time supercedes Force Slow in terms of usefulness and it's honestly not that useful without Subduing Techniques, IMO.

When you move backward, you run at a slower speed than the mob, I don't see how that is kiting. What you want to do is strafe, while strafing you can run while still have line of sight of your target to use your range abilities, that is actually kiting. Backing up is just that . . .backing up, which you shouldn't do anyway. Dont embarrass yourself by using force sprint while backing up. >_> Edited February 7, 2012 by Kai-Eurah-Tird

Hi !

 

First of all, greatings to you AstralFire, good job you did

 

Would like to discuss a few points :

 

- Hybrid Builds post 1.1.2 patch -

I am equally a PvE and PvP player, have fun in both.

Respecced from 23/0/18 to 27/0/14...was considering the 31/0/10, made the choice of Force in Balance over Slow Time for the 30m range. After reading your last update, you made the point i missed: the 7.5s cooldown of Slow Time combined with the 15s debuff duration...so respecced again for 31/0/10, definitely a great build, for PvE as for PvP.

 

But i'ld like to point out that even if Slow Time is now worthing the "ultimate point in tree" denomination, I still find interest in the 24/0/17 and 27/0/14 especially for PvP: the choice of the 30m range over the debuffs of Slow Time isn't a non-sense, especially coupled in the 24/0/17 with the instant Force Lift.

What we've lost finally in this patch, is the versatility in PvE/PvP of the 23/0/18.

 

So I would consider the 24/0/17 as a good build still, but from now, only for PvP.

The 27/0/14 is still a good mix for PvE/PvP too, maybe more PvE oriented.

 

Difference would be in gearing :

 

 

- Gearing for PvP - interest and effectivness of having a Shield and Defense -

As you say in your article : "having a shield and defensive stats is of little use in PvP"

 

Would like to be sure of why you say such a thing, a way of asking if i'm wrong or not in my understanding

There are 2 types of attacks:

- "weapon damage in the name" attacks, that are the ones we are able to parry/deflect AND that can be smoothed by a Shield

-" Force/Tech attacks", can neither be avoided nor shielded, only resisted mainly thanks to Resilience

 

After having a quick look at classes abilities, our defensives stats (shield, abso, defense) are of no use against heavy "Force/Tech attacks"-user: Scoundrel, Balance Shadow, Sage, Vanguard (and their Imperial version of course).

In this list, only 3 advanced classes on 8, 4th being a specific build of the Shadow.

 

So question is: Am I wrong or is your assessment of "Shield and Defense ares useless in PvP" mainly due to the outnumbering presence of Sorcerers/Sage, Scoundrels/Operatives and Vanguards/BH in PvP ?

 

 

Concerning PvP equipements : where most of Kinetic Shadow would say "shield is useless, go for full DPS set even in 31 Kinetic build", I would still say you're right : Kinetic Shadows, go for 2/3 Survivor set with survivor mods, the last 1/3 being either Survivor pieces with Stalker Mods or Stalker pieces directly.

 

In this purpose, I'm going for the Head and Gloves parts of the Champion Stalker set, which have (imo) the best punch-Mods: a Stamina/Crit/Surge Sophistication, and a good Will/Stam/Power Mod.

The initial gain of Surge is amazing: a +41 Surge bonus with only one of this soph raises your surge from 50% to 57,5% immediately.

I also have the "+220crit and surge" relic, with no surge at all on my stuff, +220 raises Surge from 50% to 77% ! Smooth diminushing gain spotted ..but not a huge one.

 

So to say, in my humble opinion, Survivor pieces give really usefull defensives stats, and the gain of just slotting 3 items with Crit+Surge Sophistications and Power Modifications is great.

 

Will conclude saying that I thought of the mix of sets for the 2 2-pieces bonus, and find it's still a good idea for a Hybrid Kinetic: as Hybrid (23/0/17 or 27/0/14), you will use your Force Slow a lot, so the +5m range bonus is good.

As a 31/0/10, Force Slow is not so used compared to Slow Time, I would consider better the 4-pieces Survivor set bonus...

 

But only for the Mind Snap +5m range bonus, would the +5%damage while guarding be so usefull compared to the Mind Snap bonus ? A spell I constantly use while up (most of time) ?

What to say about fact that "non defendable Force/Tech attacks" are (Scoudrels/Operatives on side) mainly "casting" attacks?(BH missiles, Bolts etc)

 

 

 

G.

Hi AstralFire,

 

what kind of Shadow do you actually play?

Kingg, I'm really sleepy but I'll look at your post later.

 

The other question is easier to answer: I play Kinetic at the moment and it's my favorite, but I try out Balance and Infiltration from time to time and would probably make Balance my dual spec if and when that feature is implemented.

When you move backward, you run at a slower speed than the mob, I don't see how that is kiting. What you want to do is strafe, while strafing you can run while still have line of sight of your target to use your range abilities, that is actually kiting. Backing up is just that . . .backing up, which you shouldn't do anyway. Dont embarrass yourself by using force sprint while backing up. >_>

Heh I know all this but sometimes I want to kite a player from a group of players to fight 1on1 instead 1on4. I do this by backing up and doing damage at the same time. Point is not to outrun but stay in reach so no force speed(it's not sprint). Oh and just so you know kiting isn't that specific. You can kite by just running out of reach to keep a mob occupied. With many situtations and games damage is involved though.

 

Thanks for your replies AstralFire.

Edited February 8, 2012 by shagatha

But i'ld like to point out that even if Slow Time is now worthing the "ultimate point in tree" denomination, I still find interest in the 24/0/17 and 27/0/14 especially for PvP: the choice of the 30m range over the debuffs of Slow Time isn't a non-sense, especially coupled in the 24/0/17 with the instant Force Lift.

What we've lost finally in this patch, is the versatility in PvE/PvP of the 23/0/18.

 

Instant Lift is powerful, but mostly for holding people to prevent a cap or for a 1v2 situation. It synergizes poorly with Stun, Spinning Kick and Pull, and the 2s secondary stun on it is just often not enough to make up for the way DoTs fly wildly everywhere. It also has nowhere near the burst of 31/0/10, nor the survivability.

 

Would like to be sure of why you say such a thing, a way of asking if i'm wrong or not in my understanding

There are 2 types of attacks:

- "weapon damage in the name" attacks, that are the ones we are able to parry/deflect AND that can be smoothed by a Shield

-" Force/Tech attacks", can neither be avoided nor shielded, only resisted mainly thanks to Resilience

 

After having a quick look at classes abilities, our defensives stats (shield, abso, defense) are of no use against heavy "Force/Tech attacks"-user: Scoundrel, Balance Shadow, Sage, Vanguard (and their Imperial version of course).

In this list, only 3 advanced classes on 8, 4th being a specific build of the Shadow.

 

So question is: Am I wrong or is your assessment of "Shield and Defense ares useless in PvP" mainly due to the outnumbering presence of Sorcerers/Sage, Scoundrels/Operatives and Vanguards/BH in PvP ?

 

Two things:

1) Every class has attacks that are not weapon damage, so you will never have the full benefit of defense. About half of all attacks in PvP bypass defense.

2) If an attack is a critical hit, your shield will not work, sharply reducing the value of shielding to about 2/3 of defense further.

Hey Astral great guide love it and refer back it often great that you keep it updated and appreciate your work.

 

Since patch 1.1.2 I wanted to know your thoughts or Kitru's thoughts on balanced shadows. I play deception only level 40 just got CS so now I have the basic rotation down except I don't have spinning kick yet. Balance looks to be very very fun and different I like the idea of mixed melee and force abilities. When gearing balance is it pretty much the same as gearing infil? According to the guide you say it is for the most part.

 

As far as 1.1.2 goes and balance shadows have you any updated impressions on it? Has it gotten any better?

 

Ive also been following this recent thread http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=279677&page=10 on the assassin side of how good madness is. Thread is turning into a no its not yes it is back and forth so I can't get any good opinions from there.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=280887 <-- my views on Balance currently. =)

I've been switching couple days now between kinetic(upheaval) and infiltration.. and yesterday I actually felt gimp while having infiltration build. I think I'm now kinetic player.

 

*snip* Nothing anymore.

Edited February 10, 2012 by shagatha