Does anyone else feel the concept of force lightning was degraded by EU (and even PT)? Purely by watching OT one gets a feeling that force lightning is extremely rare, unique and ultimate force ability that only a handful of Sith was able to learn throughout the history. The Emperor makes it look like one doesn't even need a lightsabre once he/she possess this ability. On the other hand EU regards and treats force lightning as something quite common. Also deflecting lightning with lightsabre seems stupid to me too.

Also, the OT pretty much established that once you turn to the dark side it is almost impossible to come back (both Yoda and Obi-Wan even confirmed it). That of course makes Anakin's redemption an extraordinary and unique feat. While in EU every nobody can do it.

Anyone else feels the same?

Palpatine originally was suppose to be the only sith lord ever to create Force Lighting, which shows how powerful he is and it adds that he can create powers on a whim. But for whatever reason, that was taken out and now we got all sorts of sith and the like doing it.

As for going back to the light side, yes it was difficult to do but not impossible but this all goes back to things changing around over the course of time.

What is EU and what is PT?

and I thought Revan was the only other one to traverse the 2 sides of the force. I'm not aware of anyone else who did.

And yes the lightning thing does seem a bit surprising, Empeorro could easily ahve taught Dooku though, and deflection well, Yoda obviously knew something about doing that, if you can do it with your hands via the force, surely it is even easier to do it via the force through a force weapon like a lightsaber.. doesn't mean it's easy to do, i imagine it's more than just raising your lightsaber, you need to use the force to refocus the path to a single point like your hand or like a lightsaber..

Yoda could have taught the JEdi this after his encounter with Dooku... and where did he learn that except from the last SIth war nearly 1000 years ago. A thousand years was a long long long time ago,... things like force lightning could have been completely lost and only useable by a few very powerful Sith and only deflectable by equaly powerful JEdi, i mean Yoda, Anakin and Obi Wan were 3 of the most powerful Jedi in that timeline, the only other JEdi that could have done that was ofc Mace Windu, that is sitll a very small number.

ANd yes ofc it requires focus, , as we see Palpatine is able to zap Vader in Episode VI, something he should have been able to deflect under normal circumstance, but he was so conflicted, besides the EMperor would have grown.

Anyway.. we are thinking too linearly about this, we assume that stronger in the force means equally stronger in every area of its use, perhaps the area that requires use of things like force lightning is different from the bit that requires healing, differnet from that that allows you to prophecy and see visions of the future as well as predictive actions, (seeing the future just before it happens and how far in the immediate future you can see attacks -which is determined by your level of strength) there is also kinetic strength in the force, which would determine how powerful things like force jump, force speed are.

and things like lightning could utilise different sections of the force, maybe an intesne desire to destroy, fuelled by hate and passion.. we just don't know, and they don't either, cos the more vague it is the more believable it is.

What is EU and what is PT?

 

and I thought Revan was the only other one to traverse the 2 sides of the force. I'm not aware of anyone else who did.

 

1. EU=Expanded Universe, which is anything outside of the movies. PT= Prequel Trilogy.

2. Depends on what you mean by traverse both sides.

As to the OP: Lightning was supposed to be a Palpatine only power, but now it is something every Sith Lord seems to use.

And redemption isn't all that impossible. Sometimes it just takes the right push, just like falling to the Dark Side. In the case of Anakin Skywalker, love was a cause of his fall and redemption. For Ulic Qel-Droma, his desire for revenge after the death of Arca Jeth caused his fall, and his remorse over killing his brother (and then getting his connection to The Force severed) caused him to come back. Though Ulic didn't necessarily come back, but he did find some measure of peace in training the young Vima Sunrider.

In short, redemption isn't impossible and lightning has turned into Force Push. Soon Oneness will share the same fate...

Empeorro could easily ahve taught Dooku though,

The point I am trying to make is that force lightning should be extremely rare, if not even "Sidious-only" ability. Its not just about learning something. Its about power, talent and uniqueness. I will try to throw in an example: even if Usain Bolt teaches others how to run they will never break the world record. So an equivalent would be: even if Sidious was teaching Dooku about the force he had no potential to actually produce something like force lightning. But anyway I was mainly talking about EU. In SWTOR almost every "nobody Sith" has lighting. No one should have had it with possible exception of SIth Emperor. (though I think almighty 1000 years old Sith Emperor is another ridiculous thing)

and I thought Revan was the only other one to traverse the 2 sides of the force. I'm not aware of anyone else who did.

I will give you just a few names from EU who turned back to the light side :

I mean EU turned the concept into a joke.

Same thing goes for lightning deflection. Even though in PT only 3-4 Jedi are shown to able to do it, in EU pretty much every Jedi can do it. Which is imo ridiculous.

Why is it ridiculous to deflect Force Lighting?

If you disperse lightning like Sidious did there is no way you will catch it all with a tiny blade. And even if you did catch it where would that energy go? Into the hilt, through your hands and body into the ground which means you did absolutely nothing.

Now from a less technical point of view. As I mentioned in my original post, it degrades the force lightning. The Sidious in OT made it look like he doesn't even need a lightsabre when he had lightning.

If you disperse lightning like Sidious did there is no way you will catch it all with a tiny blade. And even if you did catch it where would that energy go? Into the hilt, through your hands and body into the ground which means you did absolutely nothing.

 

Now from a less technical point of view. As I mentioned in my original post, it degrades the force lightning. The Sidious in OT made it look like he doesn't even need a lightsabre when he had lightning.

Well Sidious's lighting was far more powerful then anyone before him, so Sidious could disperse it in such a manner. The energy from the lighting though? Perhaps it just gets absorbed into the blade itself. Though should note, that it always didn't work, Sidious did disarm Yoda via Force Lighting.

I will give you just a few names from EU who turned back to the light side :

Revan, Bastila, Jedi strike team (Hero of Tython, Tol Braga, Leeha Narezz, Leeha Narezz, Warren Sedoru), Kyle Katarn, Rosh Penin, Lord Praven, Dark Plague victims (from Consular storyline), Lord Vivicar and so on...

 

I mean EU turned the concept into a joke.

Half of those you named were mind-controlled or possessed.

However, you are right that quite a few darksiders have turned to the light (not necessarily Back to the light, the Sith Lord you mentioned was raised DS). However, the OT also has only one example of a Jedi who fell to the Dark Side.

I actually like the concept that there is always hope a darksider could turn back to the light.

Spoiler or "Darth Bane: Rule of Two"

I agree with you about Force lightning, though. Especially, I think it shouldn't be a combat ability. It is a way to kill people painfully, because you want to see them suffer. (The Emperor could have snapped Luke's neck, if he wanted him to die. But he wanted him to suffer.)

I especially don't like the lightning-insta-kills the Inquisitor in this game does in cutscenes.

 

 

I agree with you about Force lightning, though. Especially, I think it shouldn't be a combat ability. It is a way to kill people painfully, because you want to see them suffer. (The Emperor could have snapped Luke's neck, if he wanted him to die. But he wanted him to suffer.)

I especially don't like the lightning-insta-kills the Inquisitor in this game does in cutscenes.

not necessarily, the force user can vary the intensity of the lightning, this much is clear - for e.g 'dooku/sidious can make it powerful enough to throw you across the room while burning, or makeit painful and long, or the intensity high enough to kill, like when Mace reflects the lightning back at Sidious, he is doing something we have not been given an explanation for, but that was damaging Sidious quickly.

Furhtmore, lightning can be conducted remmber, lightning rods etc, why can't jedi trained in this knowledge know how to do so either with thier hands (Yoda) or with a lightsaber?

i do agree it shouldn't be something easily done , Obi Wan almsot too casually mangaes to attract the lightning of Dooku in episode 3...however i am more inclined to suspect, this is a force technique and lightsaber modificaiton working in tandem that YOda tuaght them.

As i mentioned earlier, the jedi at that time had almost no working knowledge of the Sith or the dark side, , but YOda having been alive in the last confrontation would know extensively especially since he was one of the strongest jedi about.

This epxplains how force ligthning can be used as an ability in-game. and yes your inquistor would be able to insta kill with a lightning zap if it was hiis intention. as for it not being portrayed aspowerful enough in-game because they didnt make it an instant kill ability, remember being shot by a laser or a bullet/laser is not an instant kill in the game, tho it is irl, and in the movies, yosimilarly - conversations always display those actions could view force lightening

I think this happened as a result of almost every single piece of EU lore trying to be "iconic" . SWTOR included, they diminished everything unique about the movie characters because "HEY GUYS LOOK THIS HAPPENED IN THE MOVIES AND IT HAPPENS HERE TOO ARE WE STAR WARS YET?" .

I think this happened as a result of almost every single piece of EU lore trying to be "iconic" . SWTOR included, they diminished everything unique about the movie characters because "HEY GUYS LOOK THIS HAPPENED IN THE MOVIES AND IT HAPPENS HERE TOO ARE WE STAR WARS YET?" .

That's one reason. Another is that untalented and unoriginal writers cannot make it attractive by great storytelling so they get attention by crapping on OT. For example they make their characters more powerful than the most powerful in the films or use the unique concepts from the films and make them common. Take a look at the Force Unleashed crap (imo the worst SW game ever made) where this random moron (Starkiller) beats both Vader and Sidious. It is insulting to OT and its characters. Or the ridiculous cloning of Emperor in Dark Empire. Or equally ridiculous almighty 1000 years old Sith Emperor in SWTOR.

That's one reason. Another is that untalented and unoriginal writers cannot make it attractive by great storytelling so they get attention by crapping on OT. For example they make their characters more powerful than the most powerful in the films or use the unique concepts from the films and make them common. Take a look at the Force Unleashed crap where this random moron (Starkiller) beats both Vader and Sidious. It is insulting to OT and its characters. Or the ridiculous cloning of Emperor in Dark Empire. Or equally ridiculous almighty 1000 years old Sith Emperor in SWTOR.

Galen never fought Sidious, and he won by the skin of his teeth against Vader. The games aren't canon, the books however are which are much more tame.

Galen never fought Sidious

I admit I was trying erase my memory of that dumb game but I am pretty sure you fight and defeat Sidious. Here you go:

I admit I was trying erase my memory of that dumb game but I am pretty sure you fight and defeat Sidious. Here you go:

Yes...in the game, in the novel(which is canon) he doesn't.

Yes...in the game, in the novel(which is canon) he doesn't.

Novels aren't automatically canon. Well you might want to familiarize yourself with official Star Wars canon rules set by Lucas Licensing: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database

Video games and novels go under the same level of canon. So novels are no more canon than video games.

Side note: Oh that novel was written by Sean Williams. It explains all now. No wonder it is full of crap. Out of the four SWTOR era novels, his Fatal Alliance was by far the worse and filled with ridiculous stuff.

Novels aren't automatically canon. Well you might want to familiarize yourself with official Star Wars canon rules set by Lucas Licensing: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon#Canon_in_the_Holocron_continuity_database

 

Video games and novels go under the same level of canon. So novels are no more canon than video games.

 

Side note: Oh that novel was written by Sean Williams. It explains all now. No wonder it is full of crap. Out of the four SWTOR era novels, his Fatal Alliance was by far the worse and filled with ridiculous stuff.

The games are not canon, the only things that are canon in the games are the cutscenes. The part where you fight the Emperor, is gameplay not canon...in the novel(which is the canon as the novel comes out before the game) he didn't fight Palpatine. Cutscenes are the only things, that are canon in games.

The games are not canon, the only things that are canon in the games are the cutscenes. The part where you fight the Emperor, is gameplay not canon...in the novel(which is the canon as the novel comes out before the game) he didn't fight Palpatine. Cutscenes are the only things, that are canon in games.

The video I provided earlier includes a final cut-scene which clearly indicates that he have fought and defeated the Emperor. Here is another video that has no gameplay:

I am not going to discuss Force Unsealed any more because it just brings back the bad memories.

Now speaking generally. Cut-scenes or not, if the game forces you to fight someone then the details of the fight are player-specific and varies (not canon) BUT the fact that there is a fight makes it a part of the game storyline. And the story of the games have the same canon weight as the novels.

The video I provided earlier includes a final cut-scene which clearly indicates that he have fought and defeated the Emperor. Here is another video that has no gameplay:

 

I am not going to discuss Force Unsealed any more because it just brings back the bad memories.

 

Now speaking generally. Cut-scenes or not, if the game forces you to fight someone then the details of the fight are player-specific and varies (not canon) BUT the fact that there is a fight makes it a part of the game storyline. And the story of the games have the same canon weight as the novels.

Palpatine didn't fight back the two never fought, thats why he is on the ground. He was doing the exact same thing he did with Mace Windu, pretending to be weak so that Galen would turn over to the darkside again.

The video I provided earlier includes a final cut-scene which clearly indicates that he have fought and defeated the Emperor. Here is another video that has no gameplay:

 

I am not going to discuss Force Unsealed any more because it just brings back the bad memories.

 

Now speaking generally. Cut-scenes or not, if the game forces you to fight someone then the details of the fight are player-specific and varies (not canon) BUT the fact that there is a fight makes it a part of the game storyline. And the story of the games have the same canon weight as the novels.

if i'm getting this right, story in the game is canon, but the actual mechanics and abilities are not.

so, every sith having force lightning is not. But then there are cut scenes where the inquistor does use force lightning, as well as a many of the sithyou meet, same with the game trailers, so i guess lightning was quite a common practice amongst sith

As far as Palpatine being the most powerful darkside force user, for his part he was, as for his lightning being the most powerful, it was. I think Vader's mechanical enhancements prevented him from mustering the ability, but bless him he was trying to turn back to the lightside, slowly to heal himself, but I believe the course of events and nature of his injuries and loyalty to the Emperor or fear of revolution against him stopped him from being able to gradually transition back.

I should add that my belief in Palpatine's superior power is based on the fact that there where no other Sith with which to compare him at the time (I referred to Vaders limitation as a force user due go his augmetics), the fact Luke survived aslong as he did was only because Palpatine wanted him to suffer and his raw strength in the Force, if he had wanted Skywalker dead, he would've no doubt expired very swiftly.

As far as Palpatine being the most powerful darkside force user, for his part he was, as for his lightning being the most powerful, it was. I think Vader's mechanical enhancements prevented him from mustering the ability, but bless him he was trying to turn back to the lightside, slowly to heal himself, but I believe the course of events and nature of his injuries and loyalty to the Emperor or fear of revolution against him stopped him from being able to gradually transition back.

 

I should add that my belief in Palpatine's superior power is based on the fact that there where no other Sith with which to compare him at the time (I referred to Vaders limitation as a force user due go his augmetics), the fact Luke survived aslong as he did was only because Palpatine wanted him to suffer and his raw strength in the Force, if he had wanted Skywalker dead, he would've no doubt expired very swiftly.

yeah.. but when he was first introduced, knowledge of the old republic and the previous empire had not been revealed to us, so we thought the emperor was the only one that could only use force lightning, turns out he wasn't afterall, is htis accurate?