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STAR WARS and bad writers...


Gorra-Syn

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This seems to be a very big problem with Star Wars today. How many more "over the top" Sith or Jedi must we see before someone wakes up? If I published a Star Wars book, and my Sith character could desintegrate a person with only a look.. or destroy an entire galaxy with a thought, would he be one of the most powerful Sith ever?..yes but he would also be very lame. It seems that writers today have no idea what Star Wars is or needs to be, and of course GL only wants the money and cares nothing of the EU. I remember as a little boy watching Luke block blaster fire from the training droid and all I could say was "woooww".. then to do it with his eyes covered?? I was blown away. These days, Jedi/Sith are more along the lines of Superman.. it's over kill. If all I knew of Star Wars was the movies, I would think the Jedi are just normal people, but when they "quiet their mind" they can do amazing things. Most writers have just taken this idea and thrown it away. If I was pure evil,and could fight like Rambo, would I be more of danger to mankind than people like Hitler, Pol Pot, or Stalin?? Well of course not, it takes more to be a great villain.

 

All too often we get characters that are way over the top, when does it stop? When is it too much? The writers (all EU,not just books) need to think more before they deliver a product, and stop trying to out do the last guy. Give us something with some meat on it,and not just some guy that can kill everything..end of story. Look at comic books.. can Superman beat Batman? hell yeah he can, and yet Batman is every bit as popular, why is this? It's because he has a rich story and a great cast a villains and the reader can relate with him more. Give us some great Sith and Jedi, but for cry'n out loud calm down with the lame "uberness". Also it's is a very big deal when a Jedi turns to the dark side.. it's a "fall from grace" if you will. It's an even bigger deal to see one that can come back,thats why Vader's redemption was such a big deal. Maybe thats why they have statues of them in the Jedi library... the lost 20. Ill bet they have more statues down in the basement... the redeemed 60?? Come on people, a fall to the dark side is like a black hole, not a trip to the store for eggs and milk!! I don't know about you,but I would take a weak Sith with a great and calmer story over an over the top Sith any day. Maybe it's just me... what do you think? Please share.

 

Cheers ;)

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Relate to Batman?....Ya right....Batman has been played and put on such a platform that he could beat anyone with preperation. That is no way relate able, because he never fails, everything always works 100% of the time for him.

 

Now last I checked The Force has no limit, therefore force users given enough training with it are able to accomplish pretty much anything. However there have only been a handful of characters that have reached that level, or even come close to reaching that level. Jedi/Sith are still mortal, they have made mistakes and have lost/died and never have come back whereas with comic book characters they almost never die and when they do, they come back through some absurd reason or the writers never bother to explain and they are back in the next issue.

 

In short, Jedi/Sith are not like Superman at all. They are vulnerable to even the most normal attacks the only things that make them different from the normal people in the Star Wars Universe is that they can tap into a power that puts them above those people.

 

Now are there bad SW writers? Sure every franchise has their share of bad writers, but to say Jedi/Sith are on Superman level is wrong.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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I think you mist my point,but thats my fault. I was only talking about Superman/Batman because they are not on the same level power wise.. I only used them to explain my point.. nothing more. I also forgot to add the part of how I hate all the "This guy vs that guy" polls that always pop up. When I said they are more like Superman, I was talking about the uberness.. not that they have the same powers. Sorry if I wasnt clear on that.
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I think you mist my point,but thats my fault. I was only talking about Superman/Batman because they are not on the same level power wise.. I only used them to explain my point.. nothing more. I also forgot to add the part of how I hate all the "This guy vs that guy" polls that always pop up. When I said they are more like Superman, I was talking about the uberness.. not that they have the same powers. Sorry if I wasnt clear on that.

 

No I got that part about the uberness, but they really are not. Jedi masters were gunned down by clones due to surprise, they have died from explosions, against sith etc. But here, give me an example by what you mean by uberness so everyone can get a better idea.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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This seems to be a very big problem with Star Wars today. How many more "over the top" Sith or Jedi must we see before someone wakes up? If I published a Star Wars book, and my Sith character could desintegrate a person with only a look.. or destroy an entire galaxy with a thought, would he be one of the most powerful Sith ever?..yes but he would also be very lame. It seems that writers today have no idea what Star Wars is or needs to be, and of course GL only wants the money and cares nothing of the EU. I remember as a little boy watching Luke block blaster fire from the training droid and all I could say was "woooww".. then to do it with his eyes covered?? I was blown away. These days, Jedi/Sith are more along the lines of Superman.. it's over kill. If all I knew of Star Wars was the movies, I would think the Jedi are just normal people, but when they "quiet their mind" they can do amazing things. Most writers have just taken this idea and thrown it away. If I was pure evil,and could fight like Rambo, would I be more of danger to mankind than people like Hitler, Pol Pot, or Stalin?? Well of course not, it takes more to be a great villain.

 

The Jedi have never been depicted like Superman. The only reason even such a thing happens is because of power creep on behalf of everyone else. The Jedi are the tops. They are not people who can do "amazing things" they are the best of the best of the best. The Jedi Order was a group of Warrior Monks who were unmatched in bravery, wisdom, and combat capability. They were the people who could bring a sword to a gunfight and win.

 

It is a combination of combat prowess and wisdom that makes the Jedi what they are and that is fine...

 

Until you start ramping up the bad guys. When you do that the Jedi have to get ramped up to maintain the status quo.

 

Stop trying to mess up the status quo and you stop the power creep.

 

Blame Karen's mega-mandos for that.

 

All too often we get characters that are way over the top, when does it stop? When is it too much? The writers (all EU,not just books) need to think more before they deliver a product, and stop trying to out do the last guy. Give us something with some meat on it,and not just some guy that can kill everything..end of story. Look at comic books.. can Superman beat Batman? hell yeah he can, and yet Batman is every bit as popular, why is this? It's because he has a rich story and a great cast a villains and the reader can relate with him more.

 

...

 

Batman is not a character that others can relate to in comic books. Sure he has no "super powers" ... You know... If you don't count the fact that he's a billionaire genius forensic scientist engineer Olympic level athlete ninja with severe psychological issues... But I mean... Isn't everyone?

 

Give me Superman any day. A person with amazing skills who has to restrain himself all the time who hides who he is all the time and though he appears like everyone else doesn't feel like he belongs.

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Batman is not a character that others can relate to in comic books. Sure he has no "super powers" ... You know... If you don't count the fact that he's a billionaire genius forensic scientist engineer Olympic level athlete ninja with severe psychological issues... But I mean... Isn't everyone?-.

 

This made me laugh lol, nice Walsh. In fact, I always thought Batman's preparation for anything to be a super power.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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No I got that part about the uberness, but they really are not. Jedi masters were gunned down by clones due to surprise, they have died from explosions, against sith etc. But here, give me an example by what you mean by uberness so everyone can get a better idea.

 

If you use the force to live for a thousand years or so,fly, or pull a moon out of it's orbit, then you are over the top. Not to mention everything that starkiller does, it's over kill. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think most (not all) people that would really understand my point, are people like me that watched Star Wars before we had any EU. I think someone today that becomes a Star Wars fan would only see the "over the top" as the norm.Oh.. Im also not a fan of the total lack of force (the Vong) if it is in all things.. just seems all wrong to me.

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If you use the force to live for a thousand years or so,fly, or pull a moon out of it's orbit, then you are over the top. Not to mention everything that starkiller does, it's over kill. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think most (not all) people that would really understand my point, are people like me that watched Star Wars before we had any EU. I think someone today that becomes a Star Wars fan would only see the "over the top" as the norm.Oh.. Im also not a fan of the total lack of force (the Vong) if it is in all things.. just seems all wrong to me.

 

Eh living for thousands of years isn't really anything spectacular, pulling a moon out of orbit is rather child's play compared to what comic book heroes can do. As for Galen(Starkiller) his over the top stuff was due to gameplay mechanics due to make the game more fun, the novel which is actual canon makes his force powers much more tame.

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If you use the force to live for a thousand years or so,fly, or pull a moon out of it's orbit, then you are over the top. Not to mention everything that starkiller does, it's over kill. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think most (not all) people that would really understand my point, are people like me that watched Star Wars before we had any EU. I think someone today that becomes a Star Wars fan would only see the "over the top" as the norm.Oh.. Im also not a fan of the total lack of force (the Vong) if it is in all things.. just seems all wrong to me.

 

The over the top stuff doesn't bother me and I became a Star Wars fan before we had any EU as well. That is because the over the top stuff (with the exception of Starkiller) isn't that bad or common.

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The over the top stuff doesn't bother me and I became a Star Wars fan before we had any EU as well. That is because the over the top stuff (with the exception of Starkiller) isn't that bad or common.

 

Thanks for the comments proffessor, I think Ill pass on any responce to that guy wolf above you because after his comments, its obvious he just doesn't get it, and only wants to argue. But back to my point....

 

Starkiller, yes I would agree except people seem to take what he does in game as cannon way too often. I remember before the game came out, the devs talked about what he does and said yes its over the top, but that is what they are going for.. over the top and not cannon. Of course the fan boyz came out of the wood work and now they always go back to that when Starkiller is talked about in a poll. I think it just makes sence to use the movies as a model for obvious reasons. Example.. Yoda pulls an X-Wing out of a swamp and it looks like it took so much , but its no big deal to move a moon? I just shook my head when that happend. Now I dont fell all Jedi or Sith are OP.. but I do feel the ones that are, come way too often. Again I think this is just a bad writer trying to out do another writer.

 

Quick add.. The X-Wing scene took a lot of concentration, and the scene when Yoda blocks Dookus lightning seemed to really take something out of him. These are things that take alot... but some EU stuff goes way beyond what you see in a movie. Make new powers and all.. that fine.. my problem again is with the over the top aspect of these powers.

Edited by Gorra-Syn
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If you use the force to live for a thousand years or so,fly, or pull a moon out of it's orbit, then you are over the top. Not to mention everything that starkiller does, it's over kill. I'm not trying to offend anyone, but I think most (not all) people that would really understand my point, are people like me that watched Star Wars before we had any EU. I think someone today that becomes a Star Wars fan would only see the "over the top" as the norm.Oh.. Im also not a fan of the total lack of force (the Vong) if it is in all things.. just seems all wrong to me.

 

I am 38 years old. I grew up on Star Wars. I love the movies. I also love the Expanded Universe a lot. I do not feel that Jedi/Sith are so overpowered. SOME may be but most are not. Luke, his son Ben and Jaina are and should be. The son and grandchildren of the Chosen One are expected to have this "uberness" you speak of. However, they also have had their tails kicked in and have been near death a few times. To me this makes them less "uber" than you think.

 

As for the Vong...one of the best enemies the Jedi have ever faced. The fact that they were cutoff from the Force and could not be detected through it was a freat idea. It presented a weakness the Jedi were not prepared for. It surprised them and it took a while for them to recover from and overcome it. Sticking to the movies so tightly only limits, and hurts, the franchise. There are limits but the movies should not be those limits.

 

Also, I think Mandalorians should be one level below Jedi, maybe two. But to be on the same level or even higher like Traviss made them out to be is going too far. Her Mandos were a perfect example of your "uberness".

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what bothers me is the names of the Darths. Or really any of the villians. A guy who can raise the dead is Darth Andeddu and he looks like an egyptian mummy? Or how about Savage Opress.. really why don't we call the next guy Big Evil Man.
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what bothers me is the names of the Darths. Or really any of the villians. A guy who can raise the dead is Darth Andeddu and he looks like an egyptian mummy? Or how about Savage Opress.. really why don't we call the next guy Big Evil Man.

 

Darth Gnastyman

Darth Villainus...

 

...

 

...

 

Okay... I just made a Sith named Villainus... Couldn't resist it.

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Thanks for the comments proffessor, I think Ill pass on any responce to that guy wolf above you because after his comments, its obvious he just doesn't get it, and only wants to argue. But back to my point...

 

I'm not trying to argue anything here.

Edited by Wolfninjajedi
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Darth Gnastyman

Darth Villainus...

 

...

 

...

 

Okay... I just made a Sith named Villainus... Couldn't resist it.

 

rofl yeah it reminds me of He-Man with Evil-Lynn.

 

it's like in the Prequels are the Trade Federation that stupid to think someone named Darth Sidieus who hangs out in the shadows won't screw them over?

Edited by jarjarloves
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it's like in the Prequels are the Trade Federation that stupid to think someone named Darth Sidieus who hangs out in the shadows won't screw them over?

Well, Palpatine helped them exploiting their lust for power... Later they had to help him...

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Thread-Starter, if the "Uberness" can be covered with a good and interesting story to work off of, how can it be rendered lame?

 

Isn't the story all that matters (along with dialogue... which comes with story) and "uberness" is another part of the stroy that contributes to it to make it dramatic or something?

 

Yes there are limits, and that limit is the bad story... easy way out... like:

 

A Darth in the Sith Order (in some timeline) is aware of a rebellion brewing in the edges of the galaxy and can be considered a threat. He thinks something in his mind and those planets explode. The End.

 

Yes... bad. DERP. It's all in the way that the "uberness" is used and how good the main plot is.

 

Sooo.... DERP.

 

Please refer to Luke EU, Vong series

 

or Darth Krayt, Sidious, or Vader.

Edited by Darth_Eminok
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I don't really care for the uberness either, OP. With that said, I still enjoy the EU. There are only a few things that I can't stand about the uberness.

1. Creating Black Holes(I think Luke did that so I heard anyway) If you can create a Black Hole, you really don't have to worry about the bad guys. I understand that it takes a lot of energy, but if you can master it, you don't need to worry about enemy fleets. Just suck 'em away like a vacuum cleaner.

2. Bad guys just won't die! The biggest bad guy ever(Palps) comes back from the dead, which, imo, defeats the ending of ROTJ. His return is understandable de to the fact tat this was early and EU writers had almos no ideas.

3. Super-Mando. Doesn't need explaining.

4. The Vong. They are abominations of life. Obi-Wans timeless phrase where he says "The Force surrounds us, It penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together." I believe by that he means that the Force is like the life giver of the galaxy. Everyone in the SWU is touched by The Force, the Vong are not. And thy are just plain ugly. They make great villains, but they could have found a different way for them to be unique(besides their smashing good looks:D)

 

That's pretty much it for me.

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Example.. Yoda pulls an X-Wing out of a swamp and it looks like it took so much , but its no big deal to move a moon? I just shook my head when that happend

 

I haven't seen the OT for a long time but didn't Yoda tell Luke that lifting rocks and lifting an X-Wing was only different in his mind? Yoda is not lifting anything, the Force is lifting it through him...so a X-wing and a moon would also be the same...

 

Also, I'd like to say I have absolutely no experience with EU comics...

Edited by KorvusKaar
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I don't really care for the uberness either, OP. With that said, I still enjoy the EU. There are only a few things that I can't stand about the uberness.

1. Creating Black Holes(I think Luke did that so I heard anyway) If you can create a Black Hole, you really don't have to worry about the bad guys. I understand that it takes a lot of energy, but if you can master it, you don't need to worry about enemy fleets. Just suck 'em away like a vacuum cleaner.

2. Bad guys just won't die! The biggest bad guy ever(Palps) comes back from the dead, which, imo, defeats the ending of ROTJ. His return is understandable de to the fact tat this was early and EU writers had almos no ideas.

3. Super-Mando. Doesn't need explaining.

4. The Vong. They are abominations of life. Obi-Wans timeless phrase where he says "The Force surrounds us, It penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together." I believe by that he means that the Force is like the life giver of the galaxy. Everyone in the SWU is touched by The Force, the Vong are not. And thy are just plain ugly. They make great villains, but they could have found a different way for them to be unique(besides their smashing good looks:D)

 

That's pretty much it for me.

 

Very good points, but I would like to add to it.

1) About the black holes? I agree with you 100%.. PLUS even though Star Wars is sci-fi, sometimes a writer should do his homework in real life. For those that dont know, a black hole has such a great amount of pull.. that a black hole small enough to fit in the palm of your hand would absorb the planet Earth in less than a second. Now think about that. Yes this power is overkill.

 

2) I could maybe see him do it 1 time...MAYBE. In a movie you could have some actor that looks like a young Ian McDiarmid. Like the way the make up department tried to make Ewan McGregor look like Alec Guiness. 1 time max!

 

3) I like Boba Fett, but I never understood why people though he was so BA.. he didn't do anything in the movies. Total screen time in the OT is under 2 minutes.. Yes.. 2 minutes. Jango was cool cause at least we get to see him fight. It's only after watching Jango in Ep. 2 that I started to think Boba could be BA. Jango's ability against a Jedi was good.And the Bounty Hunter video game where you play as Jango was great and really made me like him even more and it had a good tie in with the movie. As for supermandos.. not so much.. I agree that is a bit much.

 

4) The Vong.. I was thinking about the very thing you brought up.. When Obi-Wan says "The Force surrounds us, It penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together.".. but to add to that.. Qui Gon says "Midi-Chlorians are a microscopic life form that resides in all living cells" and even says "Without the Midi-Chlorians,life could not excist". It's like the writer never even watched the movies.

Edited by Gorra-Syn
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Sure, Batman has no "super powers". However, his abilities allow him to hang with the Big Guns. He plans for every contingency. Does he have mental issues? That's a matter of debate. Does he like to dress a kid up in a bright costume and use him as a distraction device? Most definitely. Robin is expendable.

 

Batman is the epitome of "learn from mistakes", "prepare for everything", and "do what needs to be done". You have to remember, he's an amalgam of Sherlock Holmes and Zorro, for the most part. He has the physical prowess of Zorro with Holmes' ability to figure everything out at a glance. So while he doesn't have "super powers", he adapts quickly to any given situation.

 

Is it fair to compare the Jedi to comic book characters? Well, The Green Lantern Corps comes the closest (galactic police force), with a dash of X-Men thrown in since the whole Midi-chlorian debacle.

 

I think even George thought that was going too far. "Midi-chlorians" sounds like something a plant would produce, or some kind of new laundry bleach. I mean, seriously... WHO COMES UP WITH STUFF LIKE... ohwait... :p

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4) The Vong.. I was thinking about the very thing you brought up.. When Obi-Wan says "The Force surrounds us, It penetrates us, it binds the galaxy together.".. but to add to that.. Qui Gon says "Midi-Chlorians are a microscopic life form that resides in all living cells" and even says "Without the Midi-Chlorians,life could not excist". It's like the writer never even watched the movies.

 

I Thought the Easiest/Best Explanation for it was Because they Come from another Galaxy, they have a "Foriegn Language" Version of the Force... Plus the Fact they Were cut off from it.

 

That said the Idea of it was interesting. Even if they Were still connected to it, it may have been Difficult for the Jedi to sense them.

 

I'm Probally wrong but we'll not likly know.

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