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OP's and Sorcerers someone explain pls


Aramtrueshot

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I don't even know what to think. Not only does the "bubble blind" not cause full resolve, their 5 second stun doesn't either. Add to this their AoE knockback and perma-snare force lightning, I don't see why they aren't being nerfed as hard as Ops are. Don't even get me started on Tracer/Grav round spam that does more damage than a 9 second cooldown backstab..........

 

Your just raging now, you don't even know what your talking about. Sorc stun does infact give a full resolve bar. And any Op that cant kill a sorc needs to work harder, you think people are just gonna give it to you? stand there and take it? Get real.

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Ok, so I will admit a majority of my fights as an operative are against sorcerers.. on my server I would guess in pvp a good 40% + of the pvp players are sorcerers.

 

With the incoming nerf will someone please explain how a 6th level ability for the ops can be totally negated by a 4th level ability the sorcerers can get?

 

Jarring strike WAAAAY up the talent tree (6 levels) is now 1.5 second stun that will fill up the resolve bar (re: silly). Backlash a level 4 talent will blind for 3 seconds everyone when the bubble bursts. And it does not fill up the resolve bar.. Huh?

 

So I open on a sorcerer, to maybe get 1k to 2k of damage if I crit (bubble absorbs 2500 I hear.. someone might enlighten me on this). I get blinded for 3 seconds and can do nothing, sorcerer gets up after 1.5 seconds, immune to all crowd control. Can get range.. root, stun, run away, re bubble etc... If I do break the blind, then I am re-crowd controlled because his ability did not fill the resolve bar.

 

Why on earth would I ever want to use jarring strike? Why does it cost so much now, and why is it so easily negated now?

 

I am really having a hard time wrapping my brain around this nerf on the ability...

 

1) Make it not fill the resolve bar, yes we will then stun.. but after the initial stun, which uses a GC and does lowered damage the fight is on... and you can break it.

 

2) Make jarring strike a root. Make it not fill the bar up, but make it root for 3 to 4 seconds. And move it down on the talent tree...

 

3) Replace the neutered jarring strike with something else that is an escape, or a talent that allows cloaking screen to wipe all bad effects upon use. That way we can use evasions for more than just a button we click before we combat cloak.

 

 

This change to jarring strike and doing nothing more than just nerfing it, really confuses me. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the class works, how the flow of pvp goes, and most disturbing a serious lack of thought or creativity.

 

Am I wrong? I just know now whenever I meet a sorc with backlash its already frustrating.. now its useless.

 

I'm sorry if you are having trouble beating a sorc/sage that is spec'd Tele/Lightning and has to stand still and cast to do damage, the problem is you.

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I'm sorry if you are having trouble beating a sorc/sage that is spec'd Tele/Lightning and has to stand still and cast to do damage, the problem is you.

 

Let me simplify this for you..

 

Is a talent that is 6 levels up on a talent tree that stuns for 1.5 seconds and fills the resolve bar.. better or worse than a talent 4 levels up a talent tree that blinds for 3 seconds, is area of effect, up more often, and does not fill the resolve bar?

 

Where does that make sense? Move the talent if the nerf stays as is, and put something else in its place.

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Trying to compare this skill to just about ANYTHING else is stupid... especially when you choose to compare it to a mezz(learn the difference) that is about even with one you yourself possess.

 

 

As for why it maxes the resolve bar, the skill does a knockback in addition to the knockdown. I have seen many people knocked into a fire with it.

Doesn't sound like a big deal?

For comparison, using any other class' knockback(except for the one that you can add a root to, but that one doesn't deal tons of damage and come from stealth) to throw them into a fire and then stun them requires 2 GCDs. If they are right on the edge, they can easily walk out before you can cast the stun. If they have a leap move, even easier. To make matter worse, some of those stuns even have a travel time through the air, making it take even LONGER to actually stun the person.

You may not think that is a big deal, but there are a very large number of circumstances where the knockback attached to it is extremely beneficial.

 

I would be rather pissed if it was a 3 second knockdown with a knockback and backstab damage and DID NOT max their resolve. Do you WANT a repeat of early game rogue-level stunlock burst from WoW? That is an instant recipe for nerfs... which is now happening, imagine that.

 

As for now, when it is nerfed to 1.5 seconds, it maybe needs to only do partial resolve fill.

How many of you actually have a character on the PTR leveled enough to see if it still fills the bar? Not to mention you need one person on each faction to test it with. Cannot test it on a low lever player, as it will just kill them instantly anyway...

So before you whine about this **** of filling the resolve bar, why don't you find out if it actually DOES?

 

 

 

As for the post above me, a 1.5 second stun with backstab damage on it would be rather superior to a 3 second mezz that breaks on one point of damage, if you are using them for the same purposes.

Considering the mezz would best be used to keep people from hitting you, while the knockdown would be used to destroy someone, I am not sure why you are still trying to compare the two.

If the Sorc tried to use it like you were using Hidden Strike, he would get around 2500 damage max(on a VERY well geared sorc, with a crit) before it broke and you were free to react... Doesn't that make it worse than yours, since you can deal significantly more than that during the knockdown time, not even counting the initial damage from the skill? ...

Edited by Necroclysm
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Ok, so I will admit a majority of my fights as an operative are against sorcerers.. on my server I would guess in pvp a good 40% + of the pvp players are sorcerers.

 

With the incoming nerf will someone please explain how a 6th level ability for the ops can be totally negated by a 4th level ability the sorcerers can get?

 

Jarring strike WAAAAY up the talent tree (6 levels) is now 1.5 second stun that will fill up the resolve bar (re: silly). Backlash a level 4 talent will blind for 3 seconds everyone when the bubble bursts. And it does not fill up the resolve bar.. Huh?

 

So I open on a sorcerer, to maybe get 1k to 2k of damage if I crit (bubble absorbs 2500 I hear.. someone might enlighten me on this). I get blinded for 3 seconds and can do nothing, sorcerer gets up after 1.5 seconds, immune to all crowd control. Can get range.. root, stun, run away, re bubble etc... If I do break the blind, then I am re-crowd controlled because his ability did not fill the resolve bar.

 

Why on earth would I ever want to use jarring strike? Why does it cost so much now, and why is it so easily negated now?

 

I am really having a hard time wrapping my brain around this nerf on the ability...

 

1) Make it not fill the resolve bar, yes we will then stun.. but after the initial stun, which uses a GC and does lowered damage the fight is on... and you can break it.

 

2) Make jarring strike a root. Make it not fill the bar up, but make it root for 3 to 4 seconds. And move it down on the talent tree...

 

3) Replace the neutered jarring strike with something else that is an escape, or a talent that allows cloaking screen to wipe all bad effects upon use. That way we can use evasions for more than just a button we click before we combat cloak.

 

 

This change to jarring strike and doing nothing more than just nerfing it, really confuses me. It shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how the class works, how the flow of pvp goes, and most disturbing a serious lack of thought or creativity.

 

Am I wrong? I just know now whenever I meet a sorc with backlash its already frustrating.. now its useless.

 

wow a QQ thread about Sorc's being better than Ops. u sir fail :)

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wow a QQ thread about Sorc's being better than Ops. u sir fail :)

 

Why does he fail?, its true.

Soc/sage is the most op class of all. Soc is by far the most played class, and it would not be so if it was not a face-roll class.

If the class was not so great as it is, most people would play sith warrior or jedi knight.

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Backlash a level 4 talent will blind for 3 seconds everyone when the bubble bursts. And it does not fill up the resolve bar.. Huh?

 

^ This.

 

What's the point of a resolve system if half the CC abiliites ignores it?

 

And why does Jarring Strike completely fill up the Resolve meter? No other CC abilities do that. It's not like OPs have a ton of other CC.

 

However, as a Warrior, I'll always be happy when they nerf other clases :p Warrior buffs plz?

Edited by StrykaTillisk
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I whole-heartedly agree. Now that the babies got their way with one class, it's on like donkey kong for these mouth-breathers. Welcome to nerftopia, land of the salty tears!

Unfortunately, I concur. I doubt many of the people calling for any class to be ‘balanced’ are consulting vast quantities of empirical evidence and compensating for cognitive bias. They’re emotive, vitriolic, and relying on anecdote (Whenever I fight X), intuition (It's just so obvious!), logical fallacies (I play this class too so my call for damage reductions is somehow more valid; post hoc nonsense; ad populum idiocy; etc), or cherry-picking of data (Look! This one screenshot shows X doing 900k damage! This is proof that they need damage reductions!... Let’s ignore any specific environmental conditions that made this possible and generalise it!). Equally, I don't see those that play the targeted classes providing data and they're typically guilty of the same failings.

 

If people calmly gather representative, randomised samples and subject them to analysis in order to confirm confidence then I’ll gladly accept their points on any classes. Until such a time, they can take their frail, pathetic human emotions elsewhere and I sincerely hope Bioware don't defer to the typical model of instant gratification on these matters. Sadly, the Operative/Smuggler changes suggest otherwise (unless it was coincidence that their changes coincided with the uproar).

Edited by Sufran
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My answer to PVP QQ'ing instead of saying how overpowered a class you never played is, you can A, stop pvping cuz u suck at it. b, Learn to fight against that class. C, Reroll. D, relise that pvp is alot of times rock paper scissors some classes fight others better. or lasty E, get some friends in your case 7 of em and fight a sorc and then brag saying u did it on your own.

 

my main toon is a Sorc, i leveled most of the way as lightning, I can say its OP not because i kill everything cuz that would be a lie. lightning spec is op because if you cant beat some one you can get the heck out of there run away and rejoin the fight later or with some friends. if your having trouble fighting a class practice. will there be some classes better then others sure but they still can get rolled by another class.

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Sorcs are the mage kind of class and it's the only one atm that is there. Take all Warlocks, shadow priests, mages, moonkindruids and elemental shamans (sry if i forget something) togheter and see: wow 75% of the wow players play ranged caster classes. (just an exampel, don't have numbers here)

 

I started to play a sorc because i want to heal and i like the "oldshcool" ressource managment. I don't ven bother to dps with m sorc in PvE because there are 3 dd's who do more dmg.

 

Pre 1.1 i got stunkilled by OP and soundrels, i was 50 and got my champion gear, so i was crappy equiped but a two hit with my untouched bubble up.... hm, i never two hittet any one EVER with my sorc. Even trooper ripped me appart, not to mention those two lightsaber wielding classes. Im not the brightest light when it comes to PvP but gettin ripped appart in huttenball from players who know that i heal isn't funny at all.

 

Cry on untill noone can even play somewhat in this game and they have to nerf the pve encounters because noone has the dmg or the heal output to kill anything. In the end you can be happy that your qq killed a game.

 

The nerf IS HARD, yes for sure, but after 5 minutes 3 OP i know talked togheter, changed theyre skills and are still very happy with theyre class.

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wow a QQ thread about Sorc's being better than Ops. u sir fail :)

 

You casters are pathetic, I hope you realize that. It's people like you that are the reasons why Bioware is making failed attempts at balance because the game won't be fair in your eyes until every class is UP and casters are invincible. No kid, you failed.

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sorcer is ok , and operative is ok , the real problem here is that everyone who never played a mmo in their life and started here with swtor , cause of star wars went to:

 

1º lightsabers

2º movie based stuffs

 

so the biggest part of the people went to inquisitor , then they just choose sorcer cause inquisitor cant use lightsaber, then the problem begins , cause who choose operative , is players that want to be sthealt that maybe already have some experiencie in MMOs , even with sthealth classes, so the operatives are probably beating sorcers in skill , (NOT ALL OFC) but the biggest part, and then ye sorcers feel bad, cry , qq in forums , think in stop playing!

 

When suddently they realize they kill easy every other class except us , so they stop crying and feeling bad, and decide to only QQ on foruns till we get nerf, and then they can be kings of pvp after 1 month of MMO experience =D end of story

 

btw if you are feeling that you keep too much time stun till you use trinket, try to hotkey it ^^

Edited by akunamatata
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Why does he fail?, its true.

Soc/sage is the most op class of all. Soc is by far the most played class, and it would not be so if it was not a face-roll class.

If the class was not so great as it is, most people would play sith warrior or jedi knight.

 

Faceroll as in; omg lightnig spam

or: Omg i died to lightning

 

Clarify what you mean by "face-roll class".

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Faceroll as in; omg lightnig spam

or: Omg i died to lightning

 

Clarify what you mean by "face-roll class".

 

Face roll as in, well, easy.

 

Case and Point - I recently rerolled a Smuggler (Scoundrel Healer Spec). Level 29.

 

Playing Voidstar. They break the door. Level 16 Sorc is lagging behind. I attack.

 

She just stood there and healed through my damage. Literally, didn't move. Didn't even attack me. Just healed through it. No, not through it, past it. Interrupt? Block spell casting? Nothing.

 

SHe still had about, eh, just under half force left. I was out of energy, as I burned it trying to kill her. She attacks me, and I can't heal through it.

 

She then sprints off.

 

I don't expect to kill many people in my healing spec 1v1. I really don't. But I also shouldn't have another class outheal my DPS and out DPS my healing, with what seemed as though little to no resource management on their part, while I'm trying to keep mine in an acceptable range for maximum regen.

 

Yea, I know, not level 50 (I have a 50 Op, so I'd be more than happy to talk that as well), but I'm just pointing out how easy they are to play, even at early levels compared to other classes.

Edited by Halbe
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The stun effect from the bubble loses it's effect the next time you take damage with that in mind considering a sorc CANNOT crit for a 3-4+k in a single hit (sorry you got nerfed get over it) you can go right back to attacking the squishy target you were before it's not like he/she can drop you right after the stun (like operatives could before the patch).

 

Your rant is just (THEY NERFED X SO THEY SHOULD NERF Y) finger pointing.

 

you are daft and not even looking at things objectively. jarringstrikes sucks as it is now. 1.5 stun that makes you immune to anny kind of stun afterwards. Yes the dmg of hidden strike was somewhat absurd and they are toning that down including acidblade wich was the biggest reason the burst of an operative was so high. but putting jarring strike on a 1.5 seconds knockdown is pointless. its 2 tallent points in our second to last tier and its way to underwhelming as it stands now. It should be left at 3 seconds and the 20% dmg nerf and 30% armor pen on acid blade should still be pushed trough.

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I agree with the OP Sorcerers are OP especially the ones like he fights that are specced 31-31-31

 

take a look at the tallent trees. The blind tallent and the knockback root are both in the lightning tallent. yes the reduction of cooldown on forcelighning is in the other dmg tree but still the 2 most anoying spells are in the same tree and they both dont lock you out with a full resolve bar in a result of you getting stunned aswel. 3x CC vs 1x CC (that lasts 1.5 seconds now)

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I'm sorry if you are having trouble beating a sorc/sage that is spec'd Tele/Lightning and has to stand still and cast to do damage, the problem is you.

 

i tend to agree with you. when i charge one and they blast me back im an idiot for not having the ability ready to leap on the sorc. although by the time im back to them their channel is over and my kick i useless. so I don't know how i feel about this strat.

 

but then again i am always saying, this game is not about 1v1 so why do people think it matters in 1v1 battles. if you are in a group then the rules of 1v1 go out the window. lighting inst op, people just suck and don't focus and interrupt the **** out of them.

 

and op/scoundrel should really just wait till a bunch of people are fighting and then pop in and cause all sorts of mayhem, as a guardian i would love a pocket scoundrel to pop out and help me kill people.

 

Why do people only care about one v one. you should be punished for playing with that mentality..

 

oh wait you are by being killed quickly.

 

edited my spelling

Edited by Atamosk
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Why does he fail?, its true.

Soc/sage is the most op class of all. Soc is by far the most played class, and it would not be so if it was not a face-roll class.

If the class was not so great as it is, most people would play sith warrior or jedi knight.

 

Try to play Sage/Sorc healer...

 

just try...

Then we'll talk about facerolling class...

 

i'm 100% shure that you have 0 chances against OP... and i got.

Becouse you'll faceroll on your keyboard while stuned. and i'm not!

Becouse i'll use all my CoolDowns to stay alive + biochem... and you'll faceroll.

i'll pool some one of Meele dps to me with rescue skill and he will kill that OP...

and you'll go forum about crying how powerfull OPs...

 

and my enemy OP will go to forum crying about how powerfull sorcs healers.

 

these is the life.

Edited by AlexanderGL
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Try to play Sage/Sorc healer...

 

just try...

Then we'll talk about facerolling class...

 

i'm 100% shure that you have 0 chances against OP... and i got.

Becouse you'll faceroll on your keyboard while stuned. and i'm not!

Becouse i'll use all my CoolDowns to stay alive + biochem... and you'll faceroll.

i'll pool some one of Meele dps to me with rescue skill and he will kill that OP...

and you'll go forum about crying how powerfull OPs...

 

and my enemy OP will go to forum crying about how powerfull sorcs healers.

 

these is the life.

 

And yes...

if you want to dicuss i got both. Sage and OP...

With sage Healer(dislike burst DPS spec) i can stay alive against OP in 7-8 times from 10

 

and With OP i can kill Sages with 100% chance(noone stay alive) except when tank puting shield on him.

 

I stoped to play OP becouse game for them was no exciting and too eay to kill target...

becouse i know that my target in 80% times will not stay alive till stun... 10% will die from dats and other 10% will be killed from my rifle shot.

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Unfortunately, I concur. I doubt many of the people calling for any class to be ‘balanced’ are consulting vast quantities of empirical evidence and compensating for cognitive bias. They’re emotive, vitriolic, and relying on anecdote (Whenever I fight X), intuition (It's just so obvious!), logical fallacies (I play this class too so my call for damage reductions is somehow more valid; post hoc nonsense; ad populum idiocy; etc), or cherry-picking of data (Look! This one screenshot shows X doing 900k damage! This is proof that they need damage reductions!... Let’s ignore any specific environmental conditions that made this possible and generalise it!). Equally, I don't see those that play the targeted classes providing data and they're typically guilty of the same failings.

 

If people calmly gather representative, randomised samples and subject them to analysis in order to confirm confidence then I’ll gladly accept their points on any classes. Until such a time, they can take their frail, pathetic human emotions elsewhere and I sincerely hope Bioware don't defer to the typical model of instant gratification on these matters. Sadly, the Operative/Smuggler changes suggest otherwise (unless it was coincidence that their changes coincided with the uproar).

 

I went to college. I have a bachelor degree. I am fairly intelligent...i think. But are you talking to gamers here or is this a page from your doctoral thesis? Seriously my friend, using language that even educated people gape at is simply ridiculous; "empirical, cognitive bias, vitriolic, anecdote, logical fallacies, post hoc, ad populum"... really?!? Does anyone even respond to you? Well, I guess I did, but only because I'm still trying to figure out *** you're saying.

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