No reward = "No reason to do it"

Good reward = "Why are you forcing me to do it?"

Well yeah, you can't please everyone, but also, nobody likes a cool reward gated behind content that isn't enjoyable.

This is a game, after all, which is supposed to be fun.

No reward = "No reason to do it"

Good reward = "Why are you forcing me to do it?"

This is how I feel and I’m sure many others do too.

No reward to play fun content = “reward not needed”

Good reward to play content I don’t like or can’t play = “pissed off player who feels forced to play it to get something they want or need”

It’s the second one that angers most people.

I’m a pvper, I only really enjoy pvp. Why should I have to play NiM OPs to get my 258 weapon for pvp or mats to cratf with.

Why should I have to do any pve content at all to gear for pvp? It just shouldn’t happen and it’s driven many pvpers from the game.

Why should I have to play NiM OPs to get my 258 weapon for pvp or mats to cratf with.

Welcome to the world of crafters. To get mats you have to do PvP unless you want to whale it. I dislike PvP (hate the word hate even though I used it twice), but I'll do it if I need crafting mats. I honestly think if they opened it up to what you want to do, they'd make it nay impossible to get certain queues to pop. But that is my opinion and mine alone.

Welcome to the world of crafters. To get mats you have to do PvP unless you want to whale it. I dislike PvP (hate the word hate even though I used it twice), but I'll do it if I need crafting mats. I honestly think if they opened it up to what you want to do, they'd make it nay impossible to get certain queues to pop. But that is my opinion and mine alone.

Bioware have confirmed they will be opening this up in 6.0. I already asked in a thread and Musco replied to confirm it.

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=964553

Well yeah, you can't please everyone, but also, nobody likes a cool reward gated behind content that isn't enjoyable.

This is a game, after all, which is supposed to be fun.

People in a nutshell:

If I love it, well then everyone should love it. My opinion is the penultimate compass of life that determines all what is good or bad. Any disagreements with my internal compass will be met with disdain and resentment, and in some cases hatred.

Welcome to the world of crafters. To get mats you have to do PvP unless you want to whale it.

Hey explain this "whale" term. I seen it for years now, and never found the real meaning of what "whales" are in the sense of internet forums and games. Can someone explain what a "whale" is, in this sense?

As perhaps the ultimate in stubborn players who knows what I enjoy and don't, that's oversimplifying quite a bit don't you think?

Take for example my greatest protest of late: the 5.10 gear.

Name one reason its gated behind ossus, if not to get players to play ossus (overwhelming successfully based on what groups form to do).

In fact, for me personally, I would have done ossus on more toons had they simply not added gear, or added gear to the vendors on fleet and GC like 248 gear. As it is, I'm stubborn and vocal because I feel shoehorned into something.

I agree wholeheartedly in concept with "play your way." I think they are being over-ambitious, do not have enough time to implement changes in the manner they have stated, disagree rather strongly with some of the details, and fully expect 6.0 to be a buggy disaster; however the concept is there.

For example, I like there to be a clear objective or end goal I am working toward. With what I have read about the new system, gearing is more of a continuum with no clear end or ideal/best piece. For me, this is frustrating.

But that is simply me - what I find frustrating can easily be someone else's ideal.

And there lies the root of the problem: you cannot keep all the players happy all of the time, and seemingly people are more likely to be vocal if they are unhappy than if they are satisfied.

In conclusion, at the end of the day, no, its not really that simple.

It sounds like some folks are conflating the various reasons people can dislike content.

There's play style -- IE: You like PvP and I don't.

There's grind -- IE: Some people don't mind standing around crafting for an hour, others hate it.

There's game mechanics -- IE: Your class and build defeats the challenge easily, others are stuck.

And there's the bug factor -- IE: I tried to finish that flashpoint four times and it bugged out without completion credit.

The problem is when people jump on the "YOU WHINER!" bandwagon without a clear understanding of why someone doesn't like the content. If they complain that they can't get PvP gear outside of PvP, they're whining. If they don't like grind or have less free time IRL than you do, have a little sympathy. And if they're just plain stuck with bad design or bugs, they've got good reason to dislike that content.

TLDR: Put a great reward behind bad game mechanics or serious bugs? Expect well deserved complaints.

This is how I feel and I’m sure many others do too.

 

No reward to play fun content = “reward not needed”

 

Good reward to play content I don’t like or can’t play = “pissed off player who feels forced to play it to get something they want or need”

 

It’s the second one that angers most people.

 

I’m a pvper, I only really enjoy pvp. Why should I have to play NiM OPs to get my 258 weapon for pvp or mats to cratf with.

Why should I have to do any pve content at all to gear for pvp? It just shouldn’t happen and it’s driven many pvpers from the game.

This ^.

Also, I don't do OPs of any kind, don't play GSF, and rarely ever play Flashpoints above Veteran difficulty. I play solo and I play PVP unranked, so why would I bother torturing myself by playing content that I don't even care about, for a few shinnies?

To give more perspective, I didn't even participate in the DvL event, why? Because I refused to 'rush' through the content that I like, for a few shinnies.

If I love it, well then everyone should love it. My opinion is the penultimate compass of life that determines all what is good or bad. Any disagreements with my internal compass will be met with disdain and resentment, and in some cases hatred.

I agree with this, but just to be pedantic, "penultimate" means "next to last" - I suspect you just meant "ultimate".

This entire thread is leaving out Space Barbies™ as a play option.

Sooo true. While I don't care to decorate my Strongholds because I find it too tedious and too real-life-ish, I love a good outfit. Gotta look good, you know *chews on his Rascal's Toothpick*

This is how I feel and I’m sure many others do too.

 

No reward to play fun content = “reward not needed”

 

Good reward to play content I don’t like or can’t play = “pissed off player who feels forced to play it to get something they want or need”

 

It’s the second one that angers most people.

 

I’m a pvper, I only really enjoy pvp. Why should I have to play NiM OPs to get my 258 weapon for pvp or mats to cratf with.

Why should I have to do any pve content at all to gear for pvp? It just shouldn’t happen and it’s driven many pvpers from the game.

You are quite correct... The opposite is also true: too many items and or missions in KotFE / ET where in order to get the rest of yor crew back a player was "forced" into PvP. This IMO compeled a lot of players who cared nothing for PvP into PvP ques with no concern for what the out come was or HOW they went about playing the round once they were in there.

Again... many simply endured the matter and moved on. A number left the game and could care less about what happens next. I tried to by pass or ignore the missions and consequently I have a handful of companions that I still need to claim.

IMO... better to create a setting where players REALLY want that part of the game and are ALL IN ... regardless of whether it's PvP or PvE.

The game needs BOTH groups of players. Neither is above the other. We need each other as a community in order to make things work for all concerned.

Yes: I really believe that.

No reward = "No reason to do it"

Good reward = "Why are you forcing me to do it?"

This view is over simplified. The problem is the designers do not understand it either. No part of a game should ever feel like you are being forced. Games should be fun, and it shouldn't take 1 million years of doing stuff you hate to get to the fun either. If you make the game feel rewarding to play, it will be fun to play. How to do this?

1.) Get rid of the need to do repetitive daily activities on a long grind to get anything.

2.) Create content and zones that are fun and diverse to explore and do things in, such that whatever gains the player needs he/she is gaining automatically while having fun, and thus no grind is perceived.

3.) Provide lots of ways to gain anything, to fit into all play styles and not become repetitive. Choice is king.

AND NEVER CREATE ANYTHING THAT IS SO GRINDY AND OUT OF REACH THAT PLAYERS DECIDE TO SKIP IT ALL TOGETHER.

This entire thread is leaving out Space Barbies™ as a play option.

How so?

I like how you've all simply reworded my post and agreed to it.

We expanded on it because it was too overly simplistic

Hey explain this "whale" term. I seen it for years now, and never found the real meaning of what "whales" are in the sense of internet forums and games. Can someone explain what a "whale" is, in this sense?

Whales are usually people who have lots of real life cash to throw at a game to advance their game play or p2w.

In swtor, that means people who spend lots of cash on the CM to sell on the GTN to obtain lots of in game credits or to get specific items they want without having to buy them on the GTN.

It’s the whales that keep the CM ticking over and help keep the game a float so subs don’t have to bear all the financial burden.

I guess you could also call people whales if they have Billions of credits in the game, but they aren’t usually referred to as such.

This IMO compeled a lot of players who cared nothing for PvP into PvP ques with no concern for what the out come was or HOW they went about playing the round once they were in there.

That's how i went about unlocking the Feats of Strength achievement and that wasn't the first time, i did the same during DvL and i'm not ashamed of it, if PvPers don't like it they can tell the Devs to stop putting rewards behind PvP walls.

That's how i went about unlocking the Feats of Strength achievement and that wasn't the first time, i did the same during DvL and i'm not ashamed of it, if PvPers don't like it they can tell the Devs to stop putting rewards behind PvP walls.

I'm sorry but I can't do that personally. IMO: It hurts others for all the wrong reasons. And it gives them a bad taste in their mouth with the whole PvP experience.

I guess I'm just kind of an odd-duck. Granted I'm a little behind the times... but I still try to do things straight up! If I fail... then I need to try to figure out why and how to correct the matter. I'll give it my best shot if I can. If there is an area where I know that I have no business messing with it... then so be it.

For whatever it's worth I do agree that it's a bad idea to hide stuff or companion access into PvP stuff as a requirement. And I would suppose that there are a lot of PvP players who feel the same about materials / unlocks / gear or other items being behind PvE doors ..

Hmmm Interesting points on both ends. There has to be a legitimate answer in there somewhere. There has to be.

You left out:

Its got a Star Wars label on it - I LOVE it.

^^ This is me btw!!!

I agree with this, but just to be pedantic, "penultimate" means "next to last" - I suspect you just meant "ultimate".

Yeah sometimes, you just got to go with the flow of what's coming out the fingertips, you know? Good catch!

And I would suppose that there are a lot of PvP players who feel the same about materials / unlocks / gear or other items being behind PvE doors ..

Oh, i completely agree on that point, i don't believe PvPers should need to participate in PvE to obtain PvP related items either.

Hmmm Interesting points on both ends. There has to be a legitimate answer in there somewhere. There has to be.

Could it be as simple as sticking with rewarding PvE/PvP related items to their respective playstyles? I wonder...

This entire thread is leaving out Space Barbies™ as a play option.

And Sims. Romance and Strongholds! Woo!