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A bit confused about the nature of the "dark side"


Khevar

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A Good Example Of Sith Who Aren't Dominated By Their Emotions But Rather ARE Rulers Of Them Are:

 

I don't understand any of those characters to be in control over their emotions at all. Lana says it herself in Chapter 3 of KOTFE while rescuing the Outlander:

 

You Knights ... You're never taught to properly channel your anger

 

That's not about being in control over your emotions. It's using them. When Luke asks Yoda, "Is the Dark Side stronger?" Yoda replies:

 

No, no. Quicker, easier, more seductive

 

In other words, the dark side is a channel for your emotions to get what you want, when you want it. Essentially, it is instant gratification.

 

Anakin killed the younglings, not because he hated them, but because he saw no other way out. He had allowed Mace Windu to be killed by the Sith Master masquerading as Chancellor of the Republic. He believed Palpatine held the knowledge of how to save his wife and let his fear of losing her, instead of waiting to be re-united with her in the Cosmic Force (as defined in TCW S6E12), dominate his decisions. He was easily persuaded in his grief by Palpatine that all Jedi were now enemies of the republic, and in order to "be strong" and "do what must be done," he decided following his new master's instructions was more important than the lives of younglings, who could become potential threats to the ruling government. He was even happy to propose to Padme (and later, Luke) that they kill Palpatine and become rulers of the galaxy themselves. And while in the end Anakin was redeemed, the dark side did in fact dominate his destiny, just as Yoda described. There was so much more that Anakin did as a dark side master than he did as a Jedi Knight.

 

So it was with Revan. His campaign of xenocide is not the mark of a man risen from the ashes of the dark side and redeemed. He reactivates the Foundry with the sole purpose of eradicating anyone with Sith genetics. Then, when he is stopped from doing that, he starts a secret infiltration campaign and guerilla war culminating on Yavin, a bastion of the dark side, deluding himself that the only way to stop Vitiate is to kill billions of innocent people to re-incarnate Vitiate ... essentially what Vitiate was planning to do anyway as we know from the JK story.

 

The dark side fits the textbook definition of poor self control, FlameYOL. Succumbing to the dark side isn't the same as losing control. It simply means that the choices you make are more in line with your emotions, rather than contemplative about the larger repercussions. Can people go insane when they explore the dark side? Yes, but I'm guessing authors of Canon and Legends SW material don't believe the dark side makes you insane. Aftet all, there are insane people in this world who do charitable things while in manic states, and insane people who murder innocent people out of hatred of their skin color or faith.

 

George Lucas was clear. Using the dark side is selfishness. The Force (Living and Cosmic) is

. Edited by phalczen
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What I usually see with the people you've mentioned is that they're people of extremes. They're 100% wholesomely good but the moment a temptation sets in, they very easily go to the complete opposite extreme. They're people who in their personality just have no middle ground. You see it a little bit in the game too depending on your class. Take the Jedi Knight story;

 

 

Master Tol Braga is a strong LS Jedi, he's so convinced of the power of the light side that he believes the Sith Emperor can be redeemed and converted if they can just sit down and talk to him basically. Then the Emperor places Braga under his influence and the guy goes to the extreme opposite of the spectrum.

 

 

So I don't necessarily believe the 'dark side' is this poisonous corrupting influence, it just depends on the person.

 

You see this with the Sith Warrior companion Jaesa as well.

 

 

Granted, the Warrior and Baras meticulously plotted and orchestrated her downfall by attacking the things she cares for most in order to draw her out, but in the span of a single conversation she goes from a seemingly ideal padawan to slapping on some dark lipstick and eye shadow and totally gung-ho for the dark side. Within a few conversations she's talking about hunting down and killing "traitors" to the Empire, aka light side Sith.

 

I actually hated Jaesa's face-heel-turn until you mentioned this, it kind of puts a different perspective on the character. Light side Jaesa learns some middle ground and moral gray area. Dark side Jaesa doesn't, she just flips from one extreme to the other.

 

 

The Malak you meet in Zayne Carrick's story is presented as a good guy trying to do what he thinks is right in a terrible situation. Later on, when you see him in KOTOR, he's happy to obliterate an entire planet with billions of lives (including members of his own army) without a second thought.

 

Or Ulic, who is presented as a good guy with a simple character flaw of recklessness. But when he tries to infiltrate the Sith and falls to the dark side, he suddenly doesn't find it difficult to commit horrible atrocities.

 

Of course, trying to draw too much logic out of fiction puts one at the mercy of authors. :p

 

I'm going to go ahead and say it because people usually don't, but a lot of this inconsistency and abrupt face-heel-turn boils down to bad writing. Sadly it then leaves those of us who enjoy Star Wars lore and the expanded universe/legends wondering how to make sense of this cluster you know what of inconsistent and often cartoonishly absurd personality changes.

 

Yeah, she is an interesting example of a "light-sided Sith" from the viewpoint of the SWTOR game rules.

 

if one were to take her personality and story at face value, she doesn't seem to be corrupted by the dark side to any noticeable degree.

 

I'm starting to feel that the Tales of the Jedi representation of the "fall to the dark side" was poorly handled by the authors. Kevin and Tom seem to have taken a short-cut -- flips a switch and suddenly "I'm nao badguyz!" and blames it on the force, rather than giving the reader a more interesting character arc.

 

Yes, this is exactly right.

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I don't understand any of those characters to be in control over their emotions at all. Lana says it herself in Chapter 3 of KOTFE while rescuing the Outlander:

 

 

 

That's not about being in control over your emotions. It's using them. When Luke asks Yoda, "Is the Dark Side stronger?" Yoda replies:

 

 

 

In other words, the dark side is a channel for your emotions to get what you want, when you want it. Essentially, it is instant gratification.

 

Anakin killed the younglings, not because he hated them, but because he saw no other way out. He had allowed Mace Windu to be killed by the Sith Master masquerading as Chancellor of the Republic. He believed Palpatine held the knowledge of how to save his wife and let his fear of losing her, instead of waiting to be re-united with her in the Cosmic Force (as defined in TCW S6E12), dominate his decisions. He was easily persuaded in his grief by Palpatine that all Jedi were now enemies of the republic, and in order to "be strong" and "do what must be done," he decided following his new master's instructions was more important than the lives of younglings, who could become potential threats to the ruling government. He was even happy to propose to Padme (and later, Luke) that they kill Palpatine and become rulers of the galaxy themselves. And while in the end Anakin was redeemed, the dark side did in fact dominate his destiny, just as Yoda described. There was so much more that Anakin did as a dark side master than he did as a Jedi Knight.

 

So it was with Revan. His campaign of xenocide is not the mark of a man risen from the ashes of the dark side and redeemed. He reactivates the Foundry with the sole purpose of eradicating anyone with Sith genetics. Then, when he is stopped from doing that, he starts a secret infiltration campaign and guerilla war culminating on Yavin, a bastion of the dark side, deluding himself that the only way to stop Vitiate is to kill billions of innocent people to re-incarnate Vitiate ... essentially what Vitiate was planning to do anyway as we know from the JK story.

 

The dark side fits the textbook definition of poor self control, FlameYOL. Succumbing to the dark side isn't the same as losing control. It simply means that the choices you make are more in line with your emotions, rather than contemplative about the larger repercussions. Can people go insane when they explore the dark side? Yes, but I'm guessing authors of Canon and Legends SW material don't believe the dark side makes you insane. Aftet all, there are insane people in this world who do charitable things while in manic states, and insane people who murder innocent people out of hatred of their skin color or faith.

 

George Lucas was clear. Using the dark side is selfishness. The Force (Living and Cosmic) is

.

Sith are about freeing themselves at whatever the cost,if they start being a slave to their own emotions they aren't sith,but mere dark jedi,true sith can channel his anger while not allowing to dominate him,the dark side is the definition of forbidden knowledge,which leads to great power,which leads to power,and if you have enough power you can free yourself,that is the ideal of the sith,Yoda doesn't know anything other than jedi propaganda about us,also don't blame the dark side for people screwing up their lifes,the darkness was Always there,it just got released.

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George Lucas was clear. Using the dark side is selfishness. The Force (Living and Cosmic) is
.

 

Then that means that Jedi ARE NOT using the Living or Cosmic Force but the Light side of the Force. Therefore Jedi are "corrupted by the lightside" as much as "Sith are corrupted by the Darkside"

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Sith are about freeing themselves at whatever the cost,if they start being a slave to their own emotions they aren't sith,but mere dark jedi.

Has there ever been a Sith who actually says this? I'm not an expert, but I've never seen it appear in anything official. I hear a lot of "give in to your anger", and nothing in the way of "control your feelings" - the latter is Jedi talk.

 

Then that means that Jedi ARE NOT using the Living or Cosmic Force but the Light side of the Force. Therefore Jedi are "corrupted by the lightside" as much as "Sith are corrupted by the Darkside"

But do Obi-Wan or Yoda ever say "follow the Light" or "use the Light Side" in the films? I don't remember them doing so. That's something from the expanded universe, where the terms are used differently. There's a lot of inconsistency and unclear language in how this is all described.

 

Given that Lucas clearly intended the Jedi to be the "good guys" in his setting, I would suggest that in the model described in that interview, the Jedi pursue balance - which can still be "mainly Light and only a tiny bit Dark", since balance means an appropriate amount of one thing to another, not equal amounts. In other sources, "light" and "dark" are treated differently and have different meanings, depending on the writer.

 

To discuss the particular idea of "corrupted by the light side" in detail we'd need to know a lot more about what the Force is and how it works. Lucas explains how unfettered selfishness turns you into a monster; unlimited selflessness could drive you to self-destruction, but in or out of the spiritual context of the Force that's a much lesser evil.

Edited by Joachimthbear
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From what I gather the light side is the Golden rule of "do onto others". The force is the ability to "do", and this is stronger in some folks and situations. The light side is the "onto others". This is taking the responsibility to impact the greater world instead of self. Easier said than done, and this is why there's so much talk about balance.

 

The dark side is simply doing what excludes others purely for the benefit of self. This is a great example of the "With great power comes great responsibility" or power corrupts and absolute power corrupts absolutely".

 

Many people never have enough power to really have daily decisions become the stuff of legend. Many folks would also like very simple rules and story lines so welcome to religion and laws. This is why we see such big tragic problems in the movies, as well as more nuanced issues in the books. Different media, with different types of viewers. The grey area is that even if their is a higher power or "force" uniting us all, the rules and take away messages are still made by flawed individuals who sometimes get it right or may just use the surface to get for themselves (welcome to episode 1-3 and the US political world)

 

George Lucas specifically used archetype characters as described in "the Hero's Journey" by Joseph Campbell, and these characters all had a deep tie into their mythologies, cultures and religions. So yes he is trying to be preachy, but my suspicion is he also wanted to create a new universe where folks could experience the basic message without being caught up in the rules and regulations that come with our historical perception of religion/history (or worse academic small talk with big words). Joseph Campbell explains much of this in the video series "The Power of Myth" where he goes into Lucas's use of the archetypes. This is one reason the Star Wars universe has taken on such an extended life, because their is more than just a basic story.

 

See all of the variations of light and dark in lore as an expanded set of Gods in a polytheistic culture. Each one has its own unique power for that story, but the broader understanding comes from realizing they are only very powerful stories that one needs to understand and then use within their own story.

 

Or just enjoy the story.

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Has there ever been a Sith who actually says this? I'm not an expert, but I've never seen it appear in anything official. I hear a lot of "give in to your anger", and nothing in the way of "control your feelings" - the latter is Jedi talk.

 

 

But do Obi-Wan or Yoda ever say "follow the Light" or "use the Light Side" in the films? I don't remember them doing so. That's something from the expanded universe, where the terms are used differently. There's a lot of inconsistency and unclear language in how this is all described.

 

Given that Lucas clearly intended the Jedi to be the "good guys" in his setting, I would suggest that in the model desctibed in that interview, the Jedi pursue balance - which can still be "mainly Light and only a tiny bit Dark", since balance means an appropriate amount of one thing to another, not equal amounts. In other sources, "light" and "dark" are treated differently and have different meanings, depending on the writer.

 

To discuss the particular idea of "corrupted by the light side" in detail we'd need to know a lot more about what the Force is and how it works. Lucas explains how unfettered selfishness turns you into a monster; unlimited selflessness could drive you to self-destruction, but in or out of the spiritual context of the Force that's a much lesser evil.

Read the sith code"through victory my chains are broken,the force shall free me"if that isn't telling yourself you want freedom idk what it is then.

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Read the sith code"through victory my chains are broken,the force shall free me"if that isn't telling yourself you want freedom idk what it is then.

You should watch the video that phalczen recommended earlier in this thread:

 

It's pretty interesting, imo. It's basically GL discussing the nature of the force, the dark side and what happens when people use the force for selfish reasons.

 

It seems like the "freedom" promised by the Sith code is a bit of a trap -- you may feel more free at first, but then you're constantly worried about others taking away what you have.

 

A Sith is constantly trying to gain more power, destroy people higher on the food chain to move up, and prevent people lower on the food chain from destroying them. You cannot relax for a single minute or you're toast.

 

Doesn't feel very free.

Edited by Khevar
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It's seems like the "freedom" promised by the Sith code is a bit of a trap -- you may feel more free at first, but then you're constantly worried about others taking away what you have.

 

A Sith is constantly trying to gain more power, destroy people higher on the food chain to move up, and prevent people lower on the food chain from destroying them. You cannot relax for a single minute or you're toast.

 

Doesn't feel very free.

And the worst part is that even dying isn't necessarily a way out. Many Dark Side Force users seem to end up stuck in the form of ghosts, anchored to a particular place or object in the physical world and unable to leave or become one with the Force.

Edited by Joachimthbear
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As I understand the duality of the Force, the Dark Side is like running on turbo all the time. You consume everything in that state. As well as yourself. While a darksider works that way always at 100% from the start he has not the capability to have absolute control over the force, however he is able to do mainfold stuff. While lighsiders try to master piece by piece growing their mastery over the force. The Darksider is simply totally adicted to the Force.

 

Why do so many fallen lightsiders corrupt in such a grave manner? I belive it is the absolute turnaround of any of what they've learned about handling the force. By that they consume everything faster and tap more vicios into the Force.

 

The nature of the Dark Side is thatfore not the Dark Side, but the ideology how to tap into the Force itself.

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  • 7 months later...
the Jedi pursue balance - which can still be "mainly Light and only a tiny bit Dark", since balance means an appropriate amount of one thing to another, not equal amounts.

 

You obviously don't understand the meaning of balance...

 

"an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady"

 

If the galaxy or the Force swings too far to the Dark Side, life in the galaxy becomes destructive and painful. If the Force swings too far to the Light Side, life, civilization, and progress becomes stagnant, strangled, and stifled. Imagine a garden if you will. If you are constantly pruning that garden, nothing substantial will ever grow because as soon as it does (or even before it does) it is cut off and dies. This is bad. However, if you never, ever prune the garden and simply let it grow naturally, it no longer becomes a garden. It will become a tangle of weeds, thorns, and plants that is so thick and full it becomes utterly useless, a burden on you rather than an asset.

 

This is the Force and the galaxy. If left in the Light Side too long, the galaxy will become stagnant and overgrown. If under the Dark Side too long, it will be left a barren waste. Neither is good, you need both in equal amounts to produce the best results.

 

Side Note: The Jedi Order of the prequals (along with all the Jedi in it, Yoda, Windu, and Obi-Wan included) was literally written to be wrong, just like the Jedi Code was. They were written to be perceived by the audience as corrupt, complacent, ignorant, arrogantly proud, and self-righteous. That is why Anakin had to be born, he had to destroy the Jedi and cull the galaxy of the unnecessary and burdensome overgrowth as Darth Vader, then destroy the Sith so that the Darkside, like the Light, would have to rebuild from scratch.

 

That is balance, not this nonsense about "just a pinch of darkside". Balance means equalibrium, not picking and choosing how much of which side you want...

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*snip*

 

That's not what George Lucas said.

To him, the Dark Side is a cancer, and it is the very basis of imbalance.

Bringing balance does mean wiping out Dark Side users.

While it's undeniable that the Jedi Order was complacent and arrogant in its views, they're still meant to be right in spirit if not in method according to Lucas himself.

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That's not what George Lucas said.

To him, the Dark Side is a cancer, and it is the very basis of imbalance.

Bringing balance does mean wiping out Dark Side users.

While it's undeniable that the Jedi Order was complacent and arrogant in its views, they're still meant to be right in spirit if not in method according to Lucas himself.

 

Exactly.

 

The dark side is a corruption of The Force in film canon. The EU however is inconsistent and you have different authors with different ideas on what the Force should be. It's one of the many problems with the EU. It needed a stronger controlling hand and EU hacks being told "No" more often.

 

George Lucas on what balance means...

 

"Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."

 

Likewise there really is no such thing as a light side, there is only The Force. What the games and EU refers to as light side is really just the uncorrupted Force.

 

That really should have been the story behind The Force Wars: There is only the Force in the beginning, revered by a primitive set of Force users on Tython. Later some of those members turn to evil and forbidden practices and in so doing effectively create the dark side corruption, causing the cycle of wars and suffering that consumes the galaxy for millenia afterwards. The Anakin prophecy would then be The Force, with a will of its own, exerting influence on the galaxy to correct that ancient wrong and rid itself of corruption.

Edited by Aeneas_Falco
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Exactly.

 

The dark side is a corruption of The Force in film canon. The EU however is inconsistent and you have different authors with different ideas on what the Force should be. It's one of the many problems with the EU. It needed a stronger controlling hand and EU hacks being told "No" more often.

 

George Lucas on what balance means...

 

"Which brings us up to the films 4, 5, and 6, in which Anakin's offspring redeem him and allow him to fulfill the prophecy where he brings balance to the Force by doing away with the Sith and getting rid of evil in the universe..."

 

Likewise there really is no such thing as a light side, there is only The Force. What the games and EU refers to as light side is really just the uncorrupted Force.

 

Sure, but GL isn't the one running SW anymore, and his idea of balance is just as broken, self-righteous, and just plain wrong as the Jedi's idea of balance. If that's what the canon is now then I'm glad I've decided: "f*ck the canon, this isn't Star Wars anymore". Star Wars is too big of a franchise to simply be confined to what is and isn't canon. All canon really means is that those things that are canon are the only Star Wars stuff that is legally allowed to make money. It doesn't mean that The Farce Awakens is more real than the Bane Trilogy or SWTOR, as those are simply in different (alternate) universes. It means that The Farce Awakens is simply the only content that is legally allowed to make money.

 

Of course there are conflicting ideas spread across the EU, in case you haven't noticed, that's the d@mned point! Star Wars allows thousands of people to express their unique perspective on the Force and morality. That is it's greatest use as far as I'm concerned. Star Wars can be the vehicle through which we discuss and debate our views on morality as a society.

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Think what you will but I feel like you're being a massive hypocrite.

You're saying that the EU has been a vehicle for debate about morality in SW and in general but there has always been one constant: Dark Siders were evil through and through, especially in the Darth Bane Trilogy where, even at there most self-righteous, intolerant point, the Jedi were still leagues more admirable than Bane and Zannah who murdered people for fun, broke their words just because they could and basically "excused" themselves by saying its the nature of the Sith (Note: That's actually the author's point, mind you. Evil might seem cool, but you never stop looking above your shoulder and you end up stabbed in the face because you weren't expecting an attack from the direction whence it came.)

And you are talking about debate but you don't hesitate to declare Lucas budhism-inspired vision of the Force as plainly and completely wrong. If that's debating, then you're not doing it right.

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You obviously don't understand the meaning of balance...

 

"an even distribution of weight enabling someone or something to remain upright and steady"

Your body requires a balance of water and salt to function properly. If you consume equal weights of salt and water every day, you will probably die. Hence, you take an appropriate amount of each to balance the other. The literal definition you've given here is so narrow that it doesn't even seem applicable to the Force (can the Force ever be said to be "upright"?)

 

If the galaxy or the Force swings too far to the Dark Side, life in the galaxy becomes destructive and painful. If the Force swings too far to the Light Side, life, civilization, and progress becomes stagnant, strangled, and stifled.

That depends how you define the "Light Side" and Dark Side. It also involves a normative judgement on the value of "progress" that seems to contradict your claim about supporting differences of opinion.

 

Imagine a garden if you will. If you are constantly pruning that garden, nothing substantial will ever grow because as soon as it does (or even before it does) it is cut off and dies. This is bad. However, if you never, ever prune the garden and simply let it grow naturally, it no longer becomes a garden. It will become a tangle of weeds, thorns, and plants that is so thick and full it becomes utterly useless, a burden on you rather than an asset.

 

This is the Force and the galaxy. If left in the Light Side too long, the galaxy will become stagnant and overgrown. If under the Dark Side too long, it will be left a barren waste. Neither is good, you need both in equal amounts to produce the best results.

That's still about an appropriate amount of pruning to an appropriate amount of leaving the garden be, not equal amounts. Maybe the garden needs very little care. Maybe it needs a lot. If you just say "I'll spend 50% of my time pruning like crazy and do nothing the other 50% of the time," or cut down half the plants at random and leave the other half untouched, just so that both approaches can be "equal", I suspect it probably won't work out.

 

You also seem to assume that the garden's (Force's, galaxy's) utility "for me", as an "asset", is of greatest importance. The garden's uncontrolled growth may have its own intrinsic value. I may have no right or obligation to impose my own purpose or structure on it.

 

Side Note: The Jedi Order of the prequals (along with all the Jedi in it, Yoda, Windu, and Obi-Wan included) was literally written to be wrong, just like the Jedi Code was. They were written to be perceived by the audience as corrupt, complacent, ignorant, arrogantly proud, and self-righteous. That is why Anakin had to be born, he had to destroy the Jedi and cull the galaxy of the unnecessary and burdensome overgrowth as Darth Vader, then destroy the Sith so that the Darkside, like the Light, would have to rebuild from scratch.

So, Lucas was somehow right about this when he made those films, but simultaneously wrong about the fundamental nature of the balance and the Dark Side itself? And even though there are "thousands of unique perspectives" on the Force, you're singling out the perspectives of Lucas and the Jedi as inherently stupid and wrong?

 

That is balance, not this nonsense about "just a pinch of darkside". Balance means equalibrium, not picking and choosing how much of which side you want...

I didn't say picking and choosing. I said "appropriate amounts". Given the original view of the Dark Side, i.e. that it is the imbalance and is a corruption in the Force, an appropriate amount is "zero". Given the view more popular in the expanded universe, that the Dark Side represents some vague constellation of emotions and concepts within the Force related to passion and ambition, the appropriate amount overall may be "a bit", but not when it comes to a Force-sensitive individual forming a healthy relationship with the Force.

Edited by Joachimthbear
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To hell with what GL originally intended or currently thinks. He's not even part of the movies anymore, and honestly RotJ was the beginning of his downfall, not the prequels.

 

I've always seen the Dark Side as a necessary count balance to the dogmatism and influence of the Light, emphasizing the material world and short term benefits rather than grand, obtuse understandings of patience and restraint.

 

Most fanfics and even stories from the movies I've seen involving a character's """"fall""""' to the darkside involve characters who were already edgelords to begin with, in a society of lawful stupid characters like the Jedi-----whose arrogance and smugness alone make their destruction more cathartic than tragic-------have characters getting drunk on the darkside due to their own lack of self control more than the influence of the darkside itself.

 

The Darkside provides a necessary balance in the force, just like the Light. You got to have 50:50

Edited by JKDGSGDKJA
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To hell with what GL originally intended or currently thinks. He's not even part of the movies anymore, and honestly RotJ was the beginning of his downfall, not the prequels.

 

I've always seen the Dark Side as a necessary count balance to the dogmatism and influence of the Light, emphasizing the material world and short term benefits rather than grand, obtuse understandings of patience and restraint.

 

Most fanfics and even stories from the movies I've seen involving a character's """"fall""""' to the darkside involve characters who were already edgelords to begin with, in a society of lawful stupid characters like the Jedi-----whose arrogance and smugness alone make their destruction more cathartic than tragic-------have characters getting drunk on the darkside due to their own lack of self control more than the influence of the darkside itself.

 

The Darkside provides a necessary balance in the force, just like the Light. You got to have 50:50

 

So, not a fan of Star Wars?

 

People were saying George was wrong about his own creation since the beginning :p

 

People pick and choose what they want. Not because they're right, they're not, but because they just like it better. They're basically making their own slash fic :p

 

And now, nothing George has said has been said to be wrong, as nothing has really changed from George's creation since he sold it.

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If you watch the Charlie Rose interview with GL, he mentions the idea of the force in relation to a general sort of mish-mash of religions throughout human history. He doesn't explicitly state this in the interview, but taking that into account, I think the dark side was supposed to simply be a metaphor for feeling pulled to do bad things, whether because of temptation or even with "the greater good" as the goal.

 

And the force is just a metaphor for the life force of the universe and the mysticism that surrounds it. The dark side is essentially a perversion of nature.

 

As to the speed with which someone gets seduced... I don't think Vader's story was ever supposed to be one of getting seduced in a heartbeat. The story of the prequels was poorly told overall, but I always got the impression that it was supposed to be a story of gradual progression. And it sort of was, but the execution was terrible. Anakin slowly became entangled with Padme, which made him more vulnerable to shoving aside the Jedi Code in favor of his relationship troubles. Palpatine slowly mentored and befriended him over time, making him more vulnerable to sticking with Palpy when the reveal came. And keep in mind that when Anakin turned, he had already been hardened by a prolonged war for years. It's a wonder he didn't have PTSD at that point (if SW was more adult, he probably would have).

 

And on top of that, the Jedi Council was basically shutting him out and saying, "No matter what you do, you will never be one of us. You will never be good enough."

 

So I don't think Anakin's progression was fast. It just came across as fast in Episode 3 because of how the story was executed.

 

As for Malak, I think it's safe to say his corruption was intricately tied to Revan's, considering their closeness, and we now know through the expanded lore of SWTOR and beyond that Revan was corrupted by the Sith Emperor, not just the dark side itself. Revan even says in this game, something along the lines of, "He called to me from across the galaxy. He made me a Darth."

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Guys I'm just going to put this in very simple terms. without darkness, light loses it's meaning, and vice versa. To completely destroy one or the other will invalidate the other.

 

Where I think George Lucan went wrong.

 

I find it hard to understand when ppl say light cannot exist without dark and vice versa. Physically speaking, light EXISTS, while darkness is actually THE LACK OF light. In other words, there is no such thing as dark as a thing. It's an absence of an existing thing.

Can the Light Side of the Force exist without the Dark? Definitely. The Light Side feeds on life, while the Dark feeds on death. Life can be everlasting (theoretically speaking), while death has a definite limit. If the Dark Side was erased forever, the Light could thrive on perfectly without consequences. Life has meaning without death, too. So no, the Dark Side is not necessary to be. Light can destroy Dark, simply because it IS, while the Dark isn't a real thing. Btw, do you know which is the most powerful Force Power? It's not Vitiate's consuming ritual. It's called the Wall of Light. It's capable of literally destroying the Dark Side of the Force in individuals or celestial bodies. Not even Vitiate can resist or undo that.

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