Before I begin, I would like to simply state that class balance right know is relatively fine. Most classes can be dealt with without too much trouble. However, it can be made better, and closer to equality than its current state. I would like everyone to review, criticize, and list their suggestions regarding class balance here. This post is quite long, so if you don't have time, I suggest simply looking at another QQ thread and ignoring this. All nerfs are listed in red, and all buffs are listed in green. I will be using republic classes, as those are the ones I am most familiar with. Assume the fixes for these apply to their Empire counterparts as well.

Commando:

• General
  -Remove the 1.5 seconds it takes to switch cells.
  -Give Commandos an interrupt.
  Reasoning: Other classes can switch stances instantly, and other classes have interrupts.
  
• Combat Medic
  -Revert 'Supercharged Cells' and 'Trauma Probe' to their pre-1.2 ability listings, IE Making TP free and SC worth using again.
  Reasoning: Commando healing is the weakest at the moment and these abilities took major nerfs in 1.2 that were utterly ridiculous. They need a buff, and this will do the trick.
  
• Gunnery
  -Revert the entire tree to its pre-1.2 stages and adjustment will be made accordingly.
  Reasoning: Gunnery is almost useless for PvP- you're a turret. Might as well help them in the damage department.
  
• Assault Specialist
  -Reduce the overall critical damage bonus from 30% to 20% for the same amount of skillpoints.
  
  Reasoning: Other classes have similar abilities up to 30%, but cost 3 skillpoints- while the current one for AS is 2 for the same benefit.
  

Vanguard

• General
  -Remove the 1.5 seconds it takes to switch cells.
  Reasoning: Other classes can switch stances instantly.
  
• Shield Specialist
  -Allow Supercharged Ion Cell to work properly in PvP.
  -Increase Smoke Grenade's accuracy debuff from 20% to 50%.
  Reasoning: Speccing into these abilities is almost a waste of skillpoints- they need to be fixed in order to be worth using.
  
• Tactics
  -Allow 'Frontline Offense' to increase the damage dealt by Ion Pulse and Gut from 6% up to 12%.
  -Have 'Serrated Blades' instead decrease the opponents armor up to 10% for 10 seconds when gut is used. Non-stackable.
  Reasoning: IP/Gut deals little damage as-is, a 6% boost is enough to make the talent worth speccing into. Gut is useless compared to incendiary round, so the added armor pen will be well enough to make up for it.
  
• Assault Specialist
  -Remove the Auto-Proc ability of Ion Pulse when 'Ionized Ignition' is specced. Instead, have Ion Pulse deal up to 6% more damage to burning targets.
  -Decrease the critical strike damage bonus from 30% to 20% for the same number of skillpoints.
  Reasoning: Many players claim VG/PT as 'Overpowered'- however, this tree is the only one that matches this department. The Auto Proc on IP adds an additional 600-1000 damage per hit, which is unreasonable. Again- other classes have similar abilities to the strike damage bonus for more points than the current 2.
  

Guardian

• General
  -No changes.
  
• Defense
  -No changes.
  
• Vigilance
  -Reduce the damage reduction of 'Unremitting' from 20% to 10%.
  -Remove 'Improved Sundering Strike''s application of another stack of sunder armor and replace it with a 6% damage boost to Sundering Strike.
  Reasoning: This is a DPS spec. 20% flat damage reduction should be reserved for tanks, not killing machines. As for Sundering Strike- at the current rate it is far to easy to reach the max stack.
  
• Focus
  -Decrease the amount of damage force sweep deals in 'Singularity' from 12.5% to 6%, and allow it to stack 3 times.
  -Reduce the armor pen of Shii-Cho Mastery from 10% to 7.5% per skillpoint.
  Reasoning: While this may be a DPS spec- Allowing an AoE move to crit for the upwards of 5k is simply not reasonable, while other classes lack the same types of abilities.
  

Sentinel

• General
  -Remove the ability to be healed while 'Guarded by the Force' is active.
  -Reduce the amount of focus generated by 'Zealous Strike' from 6 focus to 4 focus.
  Reasoning: This is the one thing that makes Sentinels/Marauders slightly overpowered- they essentially gain a second life when healed during GBTF/UR.
  
• Watchman
  -Reduce the overall healing of 'Merciless Zeal' from 2% to 1%.
  Reasoning: This is a dps spec- 2% health is too much when numerous crits are expected.
  
• Combat
  -Reduce the overall armor penetration of 'Precision Slash' from 100% to 70%.
  -Increase the proc-chance of Ataru form from 20% to 35%.
  Reasoning: Sentinel is the only class to my knowledge with 100% armor pen- that is unreasonable. Ataru's proc chance is increase to promote use of this spec for it's now enhanced damage dealing capabilities.
  
• Focus
  -Decrease the amount of damage force sweep deals in 'Singularity' from 12.5% to 6%, and allow it to stack 3 times.
  -Reduce the armor pen of Shii-Cho Mastery from 10% to 7.5% per skillpoint.
  Reasoning: See above Guardian nerf.
  

Gunslinger

• General
  -Increase the damage absorbed by Defense Screen by approximately 20%.
  Reasoning: Currently, Defense Screen goes away within 1 second after hitting it-not much absorbed damage.
  
• Sharpshooter
  -Reduce the overall AoE Damaged Reduction from 60% to 40%
  Reasoning: Other classes have similar abilities, this is to put them more in other's range.
  
• Sabotage
  -Decrease the critical strike damage bonus of 'Arsonist' from 30% to 20%.
  Reasoning: Other classes have similar abilities, this is to put them more in other's range.
  
• Dirty Fighting
  -Reduce the overall damage of 'Wounding Shots' by approximately 10-15%.
  Reasoning: This single move is the key to knocking out anyone who comes your way- it is simply the ultimate damage dealer there is. Since GS only has DPS as an option however, only 10-15% damage should be knocked off.
  

Scoundrel

• General
  -Increase the damage absorbed by Defense Screen by approximately 20%.
  Reasoning: See GS buff.
  
• Sawbones
  -No changes.
  
• Scrapper
  -No changes.
  
• Dirty Fighting
  Change 'Wounding Shots' to a channeled ability like the Gunslinger counterpart and usable at up to 20m away.
  Reasoning: The way it is now, WS is not an easy ability to use and mange due to the use of upperhand- at least if it were GS style it would be more appealing.
  

Sage

• General
  -No changes.
  
• Seer
  Clairvoyance now adds 5% damage mitigation when Force Armor is broken for 10 seconds.
  Reasoning: In PvP, healers need to be able to save some to defend themselves, too.
  
• Telekinetics
  -No changes.
  
• Balance
  -No changes.
  

Shadow

• General
  -No changes.
  
• Kinetic Combat
  -Decrease the overall force regeneration of 'One with the Force' from 30% to 20%.
  -Make Combat Technique a talent in the tree to ensure it's defensive bonuses are limited to tanks.
  Reasoning: These abilities make Shadow far to easy to win in 1v1 and even 2v1 when played correctly, and allow their force management to outweigh the management of several other classes. However- dps users in tank stance become drastically harder to beat, so tank stance ought to be a talent in the three to avoid that.
  
• Infiltration
  -No changes.
  
• Balance
  -No changes.
  

These changes are suggested due to my own PvP experience and those of others on my server. These changes are with PvP in mind, so the PvE effects may be different, and I would like some input on this area. With these adjustments, I would hope to eliminate a 'favoured' spec for PvP and increase the variety of specs used and the possible hybridization capabilities. These take both 1v1 fights and overall group utility fights into account. I would like more suggestions and possible fixes to my own from the forum. I do not wish for any 'L2P' comments- although I am sure I will get some, and I hope that although some users would realize their own class may receive a nerf- they realize that their own skill would be enough to make up for it and try not to ask that the nerf be removed. I hope the thread will encourage the Devs to look more into class balance.

Let the criticism and suggestions begin.

You want nothing but Sentinel nerfs, while buffing Powertechs?

Are you serious? Do you even lift?

Simply listing nerfs and buffs doesn't do much. Could you perhaps explain the reasoning behind them? I'm especially interested in your reasoning behind the Gunslinger nerfs you believe are needed.

I agree, they are good idea but we need some backing.

You did not provide any explanations, therefore i dont feel the need to provide mine either.

Sorry but most of the suggestions are complete garbage. Your suggestions are heavily biased towards healers.

And what the hell do you have against snipers? Why those stupid nerfs?

Simply listing nerfs and buffs doesn't do much. Could you perhaps explain the reasoning behind them? I'm especially interested in your reasoning behind the Gunslinger nerfs you believe are needed.

I will do my best to attempt this further in the thread. As for Gunslinger nerfs- I play a gunslinger as my main, and I've noticed that although my class's only spec is to deal damage- the amount it deals when specced and played correctly is insane, especially if we go unnoticed. It's only a minor tweak- I wish to change Wounding as it brings players from 100% health down to 40-50% easily(With the bleed effects taken into account). As for crit, I've had the upwards of 5k crits and it simply is too much. The AoE damaged reduction was reduced due to other classes with similar abilities' level in order to promote equality.

You want nothing but Sentinel nerfs, while buffing Powertechs?

 

 

Are you serious? Do you even lift?

If you look closely, you should see that the buffs to PT/VG are only slight in the underpowered trees. Sentinels will still be just as good afterward. PT/VG are only really 'overpowered' when specced into Assault/Pyrotech, as their burst is insane.

Sorry but most of the suggestions are complete garbage. Your suggestions are heavily biased towards healers.

 

And what the hell do you have against snipers? Why those stupid nerfs?

Well everyone has to understand that the nerfs are not up to me, you or anyone who makes a thread regarding nerfs. The nerfs and buff are up to bioware and only bioware

Roflmao. You have no clue about PvP. Nerfing Rage-Guardian and Juggernauts who use the DPS-Stance? I lold.

One little sage buff? No Heal-Operative/Scoundrel nerfs? Bad Sentinel/Marauder-nerfs? I mean, the sentinel-nerfs are awful.

You have no freaking clue. Please delete this thread.

EDIT: Vigilance-nerfs. Did you ever play PvP in this game? O_o

Roflmao. You have no clue about PvP. Nerfing Rage-Guardian and Juggernauts who use the DPS-Stance? I lold.

 

One little sage buff? No Heal-Operative/Scoundrel nerfs? Bad Sentinel/Marauder-nerfs?

 

You have no freaking clue. Please delete this thread.

Sawbones is not OP its just the other healer classes such as combat medic and seer have been nerfed alot. the other healers just need a buff and then they will be on par

I had a few chuckles...right up to Guardian - Defense: no change. Then I just had to roll my eyes. You list all of these changes, but don't propose that defense stats for tanks actually work?

Class balance right now is fine? lmfao Dear me

8k crits on one class is not balanced whatsoever.

Having aload of defensive abilities on what is supposed to be a DPS class is just ridiculous.

I had a few chuckles...right up to Guardian - Defense: no change. Then I just had to roll my eyes. You list all of these changes, but don't propose that defense stats for tanks actually work?

 

If you have suggestions, I'd be glad to hear them- this thread is not for folks to simply say 'you don't know what you're talking about' and move on, but rather to be respectful and list their own ideas- I'll happily accept them if the point is valid.

Really? More nerfs to shadows for what reason? We have hardly any defense in pvp as it is since we rely on shielding so much and yet you want to nerf our self healing which is the only thing we really have to keep us alive?

How about they shift combat technique out of the general skills and make it a skill in the kinetic combat tree, perhaps tie it to kinetic ward, so that only tanks can make use of it? Then they can change it back to what it was originally so that shadows can actually tank again

Really? More nerfs to shadows for what reason? We have hardly any defense in pvp as it is since we rely on shielding so much and yet you want to nerf our self healing which is the only thing we really have to keep us alive?

 

How about they shift combat technique out of the general skills and make it a skill in the kinetic combat tree, perhaps tie it to kinetic ward, so that only tanks can make use of it? Then they can change it back to what it was originally so that shadows can actually tank again

I'm basing it primarily on the skillset of those I fight against/alongside with- however, your suggestion would make for quite an interesting change- I'll contemplate a bit on it, I'll most likely add that to the list as well. Good constructive criticism.

I know this is meant for PvP, but in particular, your sage salvation change would drastically affect PvE. Sages were nerfed (correctly) originally because they had to maintain zero effort to maintain their force. Now, it is more of a dual-resource system, life and force spent to maintain healing. However, lowering the cost of Salvation by a quarter (when it already can be cast cheaply with Conveyance buff, which should be always procced when you cast Salv) will push us back towards afk-healing bot casting.

My experience in PvP isn't that I run out of force, its that I die before being able to do anything. A single Marauder can completely eliminate me with his 8 sec interrupts, stasis, and leap. For heal spec sages, I'd propose something like...conveyance buffed Benevolence is instant-cast. Or say, if the bubble its broken, take 15% less damage for 10 seconds (random number I just made up). You can't spam the bubble with its 17sec (with set bonus) lockout, casting it on everyone would drain you of force, and the bubble would have to be burst to have the damage reduction take effect. Just my thoughts as a heal sage.

I know this is meant for PvP, but in particular, your sage salvation change would drastically affect PvE. Sages were nerfed (correctly) originally because they had to maintain zero effort to maintain their force. Now, it is more of a dual-resource system, life and force spent to maintain healing. However, lowering the cost of Salvation by a quarter (when it already can be cast cheaply with Conveyance buff, which should be always procced when you cast Salv) will push us back towards afk-healing bot casting.

 

My experience in PvP isn't that I run out of force, its that I die before being able to do anything. A single Marauder can completely eliminate me with his 8 sec interrupts, stasis, and leap. For heal spec sages, I'd propose something like...conveyance buffed Benevolence is instant-cast. Or say, if the bubble its broken, take 15% less damage for 10 seconds (random number I just made up). You can't spam the bubble with its 17sec (with set bonus) lockout, casting it on everyone would drain you of force, and the bubble would have to be burst to have the damage reduction take effect. Just my thoughts as a heal sage.

Ah, I believe you are right, this was an oversight on my end, thank you for clearing that up a bit. I'll look into a plausible survivability talent for y'all.

You havent made a single suggestion for changes to my class why is that??.

Seems as its the most complained about and you haven't even mentioned it.

Please tell me how an 8k smash is balanced to other classes big hitting abilities??.

Also my alt class shadow you want to mess up an already bad force management??

Have you even played a shadow? just because your experience is bad against them does not mean its their force regeneration which needs nerfing, heck its already bad as it is.

You havent made a single suggestion for changes to my class why is that??.

 

Seems as its the most complained about and you haven't even mentioned it.

 

 

Please tell me how an 8k smash is balanced to other classes big hitting abilities??.

Force Sweep is the equivalent of Smash. The changes in it's damage talents in the trees will decrease this damage that is dealt.

Force Sweep is the equivalent of Smash. The changes in it's damage talents in the trees will decrease this damage that is dealt.

And regarding shadows??.

My main class is marauder but you don't mention it?

And regarding shadows??.

 

My main class is marauder but you don't mention it?

Marauder is the Empire equivalent of Sentinel.

Marauder is the Empire equivalent of Sentinel.

Ok fair enough just been reading it,

But i suggest you take a look at your shadow section again, its ridiculous they have already been nerfed, Do you realize they aren't even really wanted in Rwz's??.

Bad force management and bad DPS trees makes them pretty pathetic at times they have to be played really well and the only real spec which works in pvp is a hybrid. That in itself says it all.

I don't even know where to begin. Every change is bad.

Sentinels just have too much. They should lose abilities, while guardian should get some. Give Guarded by the Force to Guardians and make it usable only while in a DPS-Stance? I would even say that sentinels should lose dispatch and pacify, they both seem more like a guardian-abilities. This should be enough probably, it gives healers the possibility of healing DPS-Guardians.

DPS-Scoundrels: People say that their stealth is the gap-closer. Why does Disappearing Act have such a high cooldown then? Reduce it drastically. This would be an easy fix and add a lot of fun and variety to the class. Make it a high DPS-talent though, Healers with a 30? second Disappearing Act would be annoying as hell. That would probably be too strong, so let scoundrel get out of stealth automatically after 5? seconds and remove the ability to reenter normal stealth for another 10? seconds. Give them a movementspeed-buff while in Disappearing Act.

EDIT: I think sages should get something similar to Ice Block.

I'll only speak about ranged classes because this could easily turn into a dissertation - afterall, we need explanations for why every change is necessary.

I think snipers are fine where they are. I think they are a model for bw to rework commando dps with. in fact, they are the only ranged class that is able to maintain range w/o being interrupted for a useful amount of time. what I mean by "useful" is that they can pop enough cds and have enough defensive abilities that they can actually use their dps abilities - and not just when the other team completely ignores them.

sages have a good deal of mobility with their sprint and slow, but I find them extremely easy targets in regular wzs (on my sent, van, commando). I don't have one of my own, so I can't speak to their handicaps. but as I said, I like to see them when I'm on a dps. and they're extremely easy targets on my vanguard with a harpoon and a quick ion pulse (let the burning commence!).

the commando dps is a hot mess. gunnery requires multiple (optimally 3) 1.5s casts of grav before dps in earnest can actually begin, and that dps is a channeled abil (3s?) followed (finally!) by 2 instants, but if the channeled procs, it takes precedent over the instants. gunnerys are utterly immobile and unlike snipers, they can be pushed and pulled at range. unlike snipers and sages, they have no root to go along with their punt, so punting, even with the extra 5/8m (?) isn't going to keep anyone off with a gap closer and will maybe buy one 1.5 cast, assuming the opponent doesn't have a ranged interrupt (e.g., assassin). gunnery is not viable at all against any class that is played with even average skill.

commando assault specialist is more mobile than gunnery and can do more up front burst. thus is it far better suited to pvp when dealing with remotely skilled players. however. its defenses are even worse than gunnery. he doesn't get the defense buff for charged barrier, his punt is 5 or 8m shorter, and his stockstrick doesn't knockback (bad interrupt). he still requires channeling full auto (3s?) to proc hib (the main attack) or casting charged bolt (1.5s for terrible dps for that amount of time casting).

what do I think of the proposed changes?

there's no need to make changing cells automatic. when sages/shadows change, it costs them 100 force. a shadow only has 100 force to start with. the only problem switching cells is that if you don't complete the switch, say you start moving too soon or get knocked back or something, then you have NO cell active. that's just dumb. if you don't actually complete the switch, the previous cell should remain active.

fixes for commandos:

• give both dps specs a root on their punt (feel free to eliminate the extended punt and knockback).
  
• give them an interrupt or an aoe stun (preferably like awe that breaks on dmg but ala neural surge is fine too). make the commando CHOOSE between a punt with root or the area stun. the slow on full auto in gunnery is a joke. you can't run away from the slowed target while channeling, and the target can close the gap by the time the channel is over anyway. good luck getting to a fullauto with 5 grav vortexes in the first place, btw. so that slowed target is likely getting 2 or no extra debuffs while eating the gimped FA.
  
• You could also pull Hold The Line from the Vanguard Tactics tree and give it to the dps commandos (medic would like it but doesn't need).
  
• DON'T SHOW CELLS/STANCES IN "BUFF BAR" FOR ENEMIES TO SEE.
  
• GET RID OF THE GREEN BEAM OF DEATH. the latter two apply to medics and wth? why do I even need to tell you to do this? do sages have stance markers? do scoundrels? what about big green arrows telling enemies exactly where the other team's healer is? nope. you have to see a sage casting something and then see the yellow puddle on the ground and THEN mark them as heals...or you have to see what they're casting while targeted. commando healers are the worst total healing in the game as is. they really don't need the extra disadvantage. i'm not saying buff them. i'm saying you don't f*&( a stranger in the a%$.
  

now I will make one last observation: in 1.2, Master Strike was made uninterruptable on all JKs. MS isn't a core attack in all sentinel and guardian trees, but it is to some, and not being able to get it off was seriously hampering their viability. Ok. why on earth was it buffed for ALL sentinals? it's just gravy on a watchman, who's already working with a ton of single target abils and dcds. but I digress. The real point is thus: why is MS uninterrubtable, but Full Auto is not? they're both channels. they're vital channels for both dps trees. other classes can make their channel uninterruptable (shadow tank). and many JKs didn't even NEED the abil to get their stuff off in the first place. do you see where I"m going here? you buffed an entire class when only one or two (out of SIX) trees needed it. meanwhile BOTH commando dps trees need it, but instead they get no root and no interrupt (ironically now worthless against said MS).