View Single Post

SeCKSEgai's Avatar

08.19.2017 , 11:22 AM | #4

That's the thing - if there were enough people to sustain new people vs new people and vets vs vets simply having divisions would be fine.

It takes player sponsored events or at least some sort of special planning in advance to get teams full of vets. That's simply not practical for day to day gsf. We need to give something in order for a brand new player to pose at least some level of threat. Sure, a new player can kill me if i just sit there and not move and not try to kill them back. But given I'd probably have to sit there a while, especially against stock crapids..... let's just say I had quite a bit of time to compare my normal damage output with fully upgraded quad pods vs stock crapids with pods.

I mention max strike fighter because the majority of the GSF vets note them as being underpowered., and at one point the devs acknowledged this and even dedicated a thread to it that never became of anything.

The worst thing about starting in GSF is that it seems people do massive amounts to you, but you do so little to them.

I have a screenshot of one of these matches in a nearly stock gunship, coming out to a little over 41k in damage, second on the board, topped by neutrinos with a little over 95k. Where he went 23-7- 2, I was just at 8-6-3. Now I'm 99% sure he/she is maxed on everything short of looking at his screen. I would fully admit that neutrinos is a superior pilot to myself, and that the "upgrade gap" only increased the difficulty in trying to manage one of the best pilots of GSF.

That match ended 894-1000, and was the closest thing I had to a "close match". My team outperformed Neutrinos team almost entirely as a whole with effectively neutrinos and one other pilot carrying the rest of that team. At least, that's what the numbers would lead you to believe. The numbers wouldn't indicate how many people flew cover for neutrinos, and even the objectives score isn't a reliable indicator of who was running bomber support.

Given that the best pilot was able to hit 95k I would say the gap is too extreme if the weakest pilot only managed 1005 in comparison. Out of 18 total, 6 were under 10k damage - given that it was 8v8 that's practically an entire team. Sure bomber damage is highly dependent on mines, but that doesn't account for nearly a team's worth of people doing so little.

While I'd agree that you wouldn't necessarily start a young new carpenter with a band saw, you'd at least give them something to be able to fulfill their task. Upgrading a ship takes weeks, even with the current adjustments. I know that my ships were like paper without the extra shielding and evasion to the point where rail shots were one-shotting me without a red powerup.

The thought of giving a fully mastered strike isn't quite as extreme as a fully upgraded battle scout or gunship. But not only would it allow new players to pose some threat, but wouldn't require dramatic changes to code. It would allow new players to actually do some damage despite their inexperience and actively contribute. I myself learned mostly in a strike when I started because I had no idea they were under-powered until I started using the ship that neutrinos and people like him were shooting me with.

Sure, 25k fleet req is nice - but given that has to be devoted to ships and pilots it disappears quickly. Sure you can invest it all into one ship but what happens if that one ship isn't what you need given what your team and the enemy teammates are using? Calling it a non-issue means you truly forgot what its like to see things from a new player perspective. Most players don't immediately start looking things up before their first time attempting something - its part of learning through experience. The problem is that experience tends to be so negative they give up before enough interest sets in for them to start looking things up.

You claim that GSF "needs" people who want to play a "tatically deep arcade space shooter".

I show up, and I don't think of it as tactically deep, or arcade - the upgrade path is too complex to be arcade-like and I don't find it tactically deep when gunship chess or bomber swarm can summarize most of that combat.

If the new player experience isn't addressed more directly, GsF will bleed more than it gains, which has been the experience I've had coming back. I know the only reason I even bothered to try GSF was that intro mission on fleet and that I would only do the daily for weeks because I was having such a lousy time I didn't want to go again and only the daily reward was enough to satiate me long enough till I finally had enough upgrades to enjoy it enough to do it more than for a daily reward.

We aren't going to get people who appreciate this mode the way you do. We get whoever clicks on that intro mission and maybe people dragged in by their friends. I mean, GSF was one of the few things to tempt me back and its been clear that interest has waned even further across the community. I mean it took things like bbb having a conquest requirement to get some people to bother to fly, which is the main reason most of my impside characters even developed their gsf, and at least a few of the pilots I know imp side on harby did the same. The only real incentive now is the bonus day for command, and those people are generally too focused on a crazy grind to worry about Gsf outside of bonus.

Gradually introducing them to the complexity of the upgrade system would work if everyone was on the same page, but that's just not possible. If I'm fighting newbies in a stock ship, they have a reasonable chance against me, but if I'm in one of my maxed ships against a newbie in stock they're getting destroyed with little effort on my part. Why not meet them in the middle by giving them something strong enough to at least put up a fight? They'd still eventually have to learn the ins and outs of upgrading but wouldn't be so helpless during the learning process.
Réiyn - Maryss - Rölánd - Monéy - Retrocide - Reiyñ

Rélentless - Reíyn - Rölañd - Tàtiana