I think Aurbere, you're missing MasterMe's point. The point is, that like many things in life, fiction or otherwise, the relative power of characters within the Star Wars universe is debatable. Which it absolutely it. One could make an argument suggesting Vader post-suit was slow with a lightsaber, fought to a standstill by an old and unfit Obi-Wan; which based on the movie interpretation of said battle (and thus G-canon) he was. Now don't get me wrong, I know that probably isn't how Lucas envisioned the event or how it should be viewed; but that argument follows reasonably sound logic. Based on scenes from the movie many of these apparently amazing Jedi could be viewed as entirely incompetent.

 

The entire argument based off the "Golden Age of the Jedi" is entirely speculative, as that could mean so many different things and without further clarification it should not be used to decide all Jedi of a certain time period are vastly superior. It is also flawed as you're comparing Jedi to each other, and you almost always follow a circle argument of "this guy could beat this guy that could fight this guy fairly and that guy could beat him and he's the greatest Jedi ever in the greatest age of Jedi". Okay, hyperbole on my part but it does come off that way to a certain extent. The only real indicator of their relative strengths is Lucas' direct comment on Anakin's power, and some made about Sidious and Luke. Most these comments, whilst canon, are also merely products of Lucas wanting to keep his toys super special, which makes for lame story but unfortunately has to be considered fact. However given Lucas has never commented on the relative power of EU characters (indeed, many times he's stated he doesn't read their stories) you have no way of saying "[insert character] is better than [insert character] by canon law". Thus, it is open to debate.

You make a fair point. However, the purpose of these debates is for people to decide who beats who. Obviously we have no bearing on canon fact, but by providing examples from canon elements we see that Darth Vader would beat Revan. We can even use G-Canon elements to prove this.

But fine. I see no point in dragging thise thread on. We all know Vader would win.

Sometimes I wonder why I even bother...

 

One of the best duelists of his time? Yes. On the caliber of those mentioned above? No.

Defeated Darth Malak: Not that impressive. Vader could have steamrolled everything in the Star Forge with ease.

Defeated MtU: All those mentioned above could as well.

A Korriban academy filled with mostly students that had a meager grasp of the Dark Side at best. Vader walked into a trap set by 8 Jedi Masters(note MASTERS) and took out (I think) 5 of them before help arrived.

Bandon? Please. Even Darth Maul could beat him.

Nyriss unleashed all of her power in one blast. Revan turned that blast against her to destroy her. That doesn't speak well for Nyriss.

Revan understands both sides of the Force? Maybe, not to the degree of those mentioned above. Mace Windu and Yoda could contemplate the Dark Side without being corrupted. Revan doesn't understand the Force to the same level as Yoda or Mace Windu.

Revan only survived his mental battle with the Emperor because of Meetra Surik's spirit helping him. Look how that turned out. Vader's will is indomitable.

Great Tactician? So is Vader.

 

You do realize that none of these accomplishments compare to Vader's. If we want to go off of feats, then Vader still wins.

Wow. So much speculation here. It's funny to hear your answer for how Revan beat Nyriss with ease. You say the same thing every time but it doesn't change the fact that he beat her EASILY.

First off, I wasn't comparing him to Vader as much as I was comparing him to the Jedi you mentioned.

And then you say stuff like the Korriban academy students had a "meager" understanding of the force. How the heck do you know that? The truth is, you don't know. So take the accomplishment for what it is: Revan defeated the entire academy. Don't try to add or detract from that with speculation.

He also beat Darth Bandon. Simple. You said Darth Maul could beat Bandon. Did Maul and Bandon ever fight? No.

You also said that Revan's understanding of the force wasn't as great as those like Windu or Yoda. I would agree with you, but can either of us proove that? No. We have no way of knowing who's knowledge of the force was greater for sure.

For the love of God would you please take these accomplishments for what they are instead of trying to act like you know everything. You're usually a logical person but you seriously just made a sad post.

Was Traya there? Does she personally know Tulak Hord? Character statements are N-Canon.

I would take Traya's opinion about Tulak Hord over yours any day.

Alright...so here are more of Vader's feats seeing as the debate still goes on.

===========

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2297140-new_picture__0__super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2297141-new_picture__1__super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2297142-new_picture__2__super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2297143-new_picture__3__super.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2297144-new_picture__4__super.jpg

Beats Celeste Morne who had the talisman of Murr which increased her power in combat and this was before Vader was in his prime fighting ability.

=======

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2191492-new_picture__186_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2191493-new_picture__187_.jpg

Surviving a shot from a turret.

=====

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139214-new_picture__110_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139121-new_picture__125_.jpg

http://media.comicvine.com/uploads/4/48765/2139149-new_picture__152_.jpg

Moves his saber so fast, it makes afterimages/afterglows of his blade.

I'm just going to leave this all here.

Originally posted by Rhyltran(spelling is probably wrong):

Killed 8 Jedi when they ambushed him. 8 on one.

He's killed Roan Shryne, Forte, Kulke, Master Chatak, Cin Drallig, Jambe, Nam, Klossi, Obi Wan, and more. Among those..

Many were masters. Cin Drallig was the weaponmaster. Obi Wan Kenobi was the best Soresu user in history. Dooku was the best Makashi user in history and Yoda's pupil. So two users are the best at their respective styles in history. According to Lucas Vader is 80% of Sidious. The most powerful Sith Lord in history. Galen Marek has defeated quite the impressive resume of Jedi masters as well and even took on the emperor after only beating Vader by a hair.

Just by those numbers alone those are 17 confirmed Jedi kills off the top of my head. Oh. 18. Galen's father.

Let's not forget that he himself is the best Djem So user in history and is well versed in various other styles.

Quote:

We know Anakin defeated Dooku.

We know after Anakin's turn to Vader he became more powerful than he was as "anakin." he became a better duelist and more experienced as well.

We know Vader canonically has withstood the strongest force Lightning Shown.

We know for 100% certainty that Vader was very close to Sidious in terms of power.

We know Sidious originally was scared of him before he set up his clones.

We also know Sidious is the most powerful Sith, even before he became Sidious reborn.

To claim Revan would crush Vader is ludicrous. Such a statement would mean that Revan can defeat Yoda with relative ease. Do I think Vader will crush Revan? Not at all. Could they possibly be comparable? Sure. I admit that is a possibility. The evidence isn't in his favor, however.

Quote:

From force unleashed..

The apprentice crouched facedown in the snow, surrounded by rubble. His breath came in agonized, short gasps, but he was grateful for each one. He should be dead. That blow should have killed anyone. The fact that he was breathing testified to the one mistake his Master had done.

He had been rebuilt tougher than before.

Vader casually tossed him toward the icy cliff.

He though he was ready -and so the sheer severity of the opening blow took him by surprise.

A simple double stroke, up then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrist and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a Telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides...

Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses.

The apprentice vowed not to give him one...

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near...

Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith Lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath. [...] The Dark Lord was instantly on his feet...

He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the Force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room.

For all his size and occasional clumsiness, the Dark Lord was sure on his feet. He landed upright and launched himself back into the fray.

Note that the apprentice had defeated multiple Jedi masters himself, was a power house in the force, and was extremely agile. If you want more sources. Go ahead. But it's obvious. Vader was by far one of the most powerful Sith. Even in his suit. Even Sidious regarded him as a threat.

Quote:

"Now that Vader had begun to tap deeply into the power of the dark side, his true apprenticeship can begin."

"More important, by the time Vader was capable of becoming a risk to his mastery, Sidious would be fully conversant with the secrets Plagueis had spent a lifetime seeking - the power over life and death. There would be no need to fear Vader. No need to have an apprentice other than to honor the tradition Darth Bane had resurrected a millenium earlier."

Right here it shows that currently Sidious fears Vader. That he's a threat to his mastery of the dark side. Just prior the book was talking about Sidious views on the rule of two and how he remembered when he killed his master. Vader is a threat to him. He's THAT powerful but Sidious feels in the future. He won't be. He'll become so powerful that there wouldn't be a need for another apprentice. That time hasn't come yet. First it states he's becoming more powerful now that he's finally tapping deep into the dark side and then it states in the future he won't need to fear him.

"Time and again the two Jedi attempted to alter their style, but Vader had an answer for every lunge, parry and riposte. His style borrowed elements from all techniques of combat, even from the highest, most dangerous levels, and his moves were crisp and unpredictable. In addition, his remarkable foresight allowed him to anticipate the Jedi strategies and maneuvers, his blade always one step ahead of theirs, notwithstanding the two-handed grip he employed."

"She felt as if she were fighting a droid, although a droid programmed to counter all her best stratagems."

"Calling on the Force, Starstone fell on him in a fury, striking wildly and repeatedly, and with anger. Moments into her attack she understood that Vader was merely allowing her to vent, as the Temple's swordmaster had often done with his students, allowing them to believe that they were driving him back, when in fact he was simply encouraging them to wear themselves out before disarming them in one rapid motion."

"He flicked his blade, precisely, economically, forcing her back and back..."

page 278.

Page 277

Forte and Kulka were skilled duelists, but Vader was not only faster than Starstone remembered him being on Murkhana against Master Chatak, but also more agile. He employed his awesome power to put a quick end to the fancy twirling of his opponents, who fell back against the hammering blows of Vader's bloodshine blade."

This was against, admittedly, two skilled duelists. He was also facing Starstone, Kulka, Forte, Jambe, Nam, and Klossi. None of them could match him. Against Roan Shryne, he slashed at his legs at one point and Vader leapt over his blow, twisted in the air, and landed behind him.

From force unleashed..

The apprentice crouched facedown in the snow, surrounded by rubble. His breath came in agonized, short gasps, but he was grateful for each one. He should be dead. That blow should have killed anyone. The fact that he was breathing testified to the one mistake his Master had done.

He had been rebuilt tougher than before.

Vader casually tossed him toward the icy cliff.

He though he was ready -and so the sheer severity of the opening blow took him by surprise.

A simple double stroke, up then down, it contained enough power to jar his wrist and shoulders and very nearly disarm him completely. The collision of their lightsabers was blinding. He staggered backward and found himself at the center of a Telekinetic storm. His Master seized on his momentary weakness and hurled missiles at him from all sides...

Darth Vader fought brilliantly, never employing anything less than a killing stroke. His intention was lethal. All he needed was one slip, one tiny gap in his opponent's defenses.

The apprentice vowed not to give him one...

The apprentice fell back under the rain of blows. The sizzling of fabric and a faint stink of burning skin told him that at least two of Darth Vader's misses had been horribly near...

Reaching out with his left hand, he blasted his Master with Sith Lightning. That broke the momentum of the furious onslaught, enabling him to stand and catch his breath. [...] The Dark Lord was instantly on his feet...

He beat back the telekinetic attack with one of his own, shoving his Master in the chest with the Force of a small explosion, throwing Darth Vader backward across the room.

For all his size and occasional clumsiness, the Dark Lord was sure on his feet. He landed upright and launched himself back into the fray.

Note that the apprentice had defeated multiple Jedi masters himself, was a power house in the force, and was extremely agile. If you want more sources. Go ahead. But it's obvious. Vader was by far one of the most powerful Sith. Even in his suit. Even Sidious regarded him as a threat.

The novels disagree with your assessment. Vader is very powerful. He also has more resistance to force lightning than any Jedi or Sith.

Edit: Here's something posted by Rayla in the previous incarnation:

Revan Reborn could not defeat Darth Vader in any incarnation, that is like stating Revan is on par with obi-Wan Kenobi, THE Master of Soresu, which is basically the only reason Vader lost that duel, against anyone else he has a good chance of victory, barring Yoda, Windu and Sidious, Darth Vader has simply demonstrated more power than Revan, read the full canon

Sorry for using other people's arguments, but I thought I would bring back these points for those who missed them.

Edit #2: Here's some more from Rayla:

Darth Vader dominated Obi-Wan Kenobi in the duel on Mustafar, only Soresu and a lapse in Vader's judgement won Kenobi that duel.

Revan against Vader pre-mustafar, doesn't have nearly the same Saber skills, but I would say his force prowess was superior, the question here is, can Revan stay away from Vader long enough to defeat him, well there is a problem here, Vader was an expert at Push, telekinesis and Choke and that was before his Mustafar injuries, Revan wasn't, none of the canon states he was a master of anything, but his force prowess demonstrated on Kaas, is superior to Pre-Mustafar Vader's, but it isn't enough to keep Vader away and sorry, but Revan in any incarnation is not superior to Vader in lightsaber skill, not even close.

But that isn't the argument here, it's both of them in their primes, Vader far outmatches Revan, it's simple.

Again, sorry for bringing these old posts up, but I've said all I need to say and I felt that it might be best to bring back these old posts for others to see.

Opinions. Fact is, one can never know. Besides, there are THOUSANDS of variables to consider in ANY <insert name here> VS <insert name here> in the Star Wars universe.

For the Jawa's sake, Boba Fett could've killed Vader once. Doesn't make him more powerful, now does it? Jango Fett had the upperhand on Kenobi, and was beating him too. Does that make Jango more powerful than Kenobi ? Nope, it doesn't. You must consider the variables at play in any given matchup, and THAT'S what you (The canon-club) cannot for the life of you understand. Manchester United is technically the "best" football team in the world, does that mean they will beat ANY team, EVERY time? Nope, history has taugth us that much. Same rules apply here.

Opinions. Fact is, one can never know. Besides, there are THOUSANDS of variables to consider in ANY <insert name here> VS <insert name here> in the Star Wars universe.

For the Jawa's sake, Boba Fett could've killed Vader once. Doesn't make him more powerful, now does it? Jango Fett had the upperhand on Kenobi, and was beating him too.

What? What did you watch/read? Cause I remember both Jango and Boba got their asses kicked, and it was only due to special circumstances that they even survived.

What? What did you watch/read? Cause I remember both Jango and Boba got their asses kicked, and it was only due to special circumstances that they even survived.

Does that change the fact that Boba nearly killed Vader? He landed a blasterbolt in his FOREHEAD. Does that NOT count ?

And no ****, special circumstances. That's what I've been telling you all along ; Circumstances DO count !

Does that change the fact that Boba nearly killed Vader? He landed a blasterbolt in his FOREHEAD. Does that NOT count ?

 

And no ****, special circumstances. That's what I've been telling you all along ; Circumstances DO count !

Yes and all that did was knock Vader to the ground...I don't see how Boba almost killed him. In truth, that fight should have never even taken place.

Yes and all that did was knock Vader to the ground...I don't see how Boba almost killed him.

A blasterbolt to the forehead would probably be the hint.

A blasterbolt to the forehead would probably be the hint.

He didn't seemed phased by the shot at all, all the shot did was knock him back. His helmet is made out of durasteel and other strong materials you know, as is the rest of his armor.

I've said it a number of times now, and it will always ring true.

Plot and Circumstance can Kill Anyone

It's that simple.

How about we think of the fact that vader was a glorified whiny force using cyborg who was defeated by 1 sith lord (who I say was less powerful than vitiate (another time another thread)) and revan is a ****** who survived being fired at by an entire barage of lasers, a planetary extinction event (save the rakghouls), a gigantic mega bomb on malachor V, survived for 3 hundred years while actually influencing vitiate into thinking temporary peace was in his best interest, and was only killed after 2 sith lords, a cipher agent, and the grand champion of the great hunt tracked him down and may not have even killed him (wheres the corpse Bioware?) after facing lightning, meteores, and a mastery of saber combat. ok i give vader credit for being a saber master too but still it took much more to kill revan than vader who died essentially from circuit overload and suffocation.

Revan>Vader

Vader's well known loses include

Obi-Wan , even when warning Anakin of what he was going to do Anakin still leaped in.

***Obi-Wan's death is largely because he gave his life so Luke and friends could get away ......***

Starkiller x2

Luke Skywalker....................barely trained compared to the Golden Age Jedi

Count Dooku

I like Anakin alot , but I am sick of people trying to down play Obi-Wans win, seen it so manytimes in this thread it is unreal/

Vader is not a God , that was ended when he let his EGO control him and he could not listen to someone saying "Hey if you come at me , I am going to cut off both your legs and your Good Arm " !

Would he beat Revan ?

Yes !

Why?

Because Lucas said he was the best ! Now I respect Lucas even though he no longer controls StarWars , but not even Leland Chee himself has said who is better or not than Revan . This Topic of all these ForceUsers vs Revan is plastered across many Forums and threads , not just SWTORs forums .

So if Leland Chee has not brought no light to it why do people keep saying who could or could not beat Revan and claim to use Canon Stats ? Not even Canon says Revan was a Average Jedi/Sith/ForceUser , it really says that he was one of the greats of the Old Republic .

These Debats about Revan are silly , because LucasArts/Films decided to keep Revan mostly a Secret . Not even Drew can stop them from Adding Canon Abilities/skills and everything we do not know about him.

So those who constantly batter Revan do it with lack of knowledge .

In the Army you are told to never doubt the skill of a unknown. Thats what we are told in Reality . On the SWTOR forums we are told because there is little to know about his abilities we must discard his achievements as they do not hold water without known abilities.

Plo Koon was killed by a Clone Trooper with no Force Abilities or skills , yet Aurbere will tell you that he was one of the Greatest Jedi of all time ! Which he is .

Revan might have been killed to 2 Sithlords who are great on their own right and Opertive and Bounty Hunter who also are legends . (the whole lv of the Flashpoint thought is retarded , Soon we will have 50-55 Story Modes and Hard Modes . I really doubt we want to say Malgus would be less than those fights because of Lvling in the game. Or even the Emperor who dies at the end of the Class Mission for the Jedi Knight who can be beaten 45lv. I waited till 50 to kill the Emperor because I wanted to Steam Roll him.)

^ So with that said , who seems greater ?

Meetra Surik died in a fight more epic than Plo Koon .........

So Aurbere I say if Plo Koon was great , so was Revan equally or if not greater .

Until Leland Chee or Some other top head to StarWars Lore / Editor says anything to whom would win , these fights hold no water and have no ground to stand .

Revan will by Canon be known as a Great Force User/ Warrior/ General / Hero / Villian / Hero again of his LIFE TIME ! All 300+ years of it !

So Aurbere I say if Plo Koon was great , so was Revan equally or if not greater .

 

Depends on what you mean by "greater". Accomplishments-wise: Revan. He fought in two wars and challenged the Sith Emperor himself.

Power-wise: I don't want to get into it...

Trying to mellow out the topic over here...

Edit: And dying in an unspectacular way is not indicative of the power said person holds. Look at Sidious.

Depends on what you mean by "greater". Accomplishments-wise: Revan. He fought in two wars and challenged the Sith Emperor himself.

 

Power-wise: I don't want to get into it...

 

Trying to mellow out the topic over here...

 

Edit: And dying in an unspectacular way is not indicative of the power said person holds. Look at Sidious.

Look at Sidious?

He was killed by Vader and later by Luke EU GOD Skywalker. Spectacular ends either or .

Sidious with all his abilities and power , could not see or defend himself from being tossed down a shaft to his doom.

Just a point to throw out there that just because you have the ability to see the future , does not mean you can always see it !

I am not saying Plo Koon is not worthy of being called a Great Jedi , I am just point out that if we went by your rules and people like you Plo Koon suddenly does not look so "GREAT" .

I for one will tell you a death by something that low does not mean he was less , but people have stated because Revan died at the Foundry to 4 PCs that all become Great Characters , all 4 were Great at that point as well , that somehow Revan was weak !

Lets look at these Clone Troopers.

Anyone remember EP4-6? There updated Versions could not hit a target right in front of them , going by the ever G-Canon Movies ! But older versions , Clone Troopers from teh Clone Wars took out Plo Koon with ease .

So if you say , Revan vs so and so and hes always going to lose , well I say .........."He could have been Plo Koon and been taken out by a Average Clone Trooper "

This is all by using your thinking and it does not work as well as you think . I respect Plo Koon and think hes a cool character , but by your logic and debat , hes not that Great. Seemingly being blinded I guess kept him from defending himself with all his Great Powers and Skills against a No Force Connection Troopers whos lives usually were not that long.

Its safe to say , Revan killed many troopers Sith and Republic who could probably Pew Pew with the best of them and defended himself and others from said troopers. With from what you would state less powers and skills than Plo Koon .

So I would say "Well Revan must have been better with what he had then than Plo Koon and all his POWERFUL GREAT Powers and Skills" .

^ See how this all works out ?

Edit: I been trying to stay out these debats but I can see they needed a little Salt from me.

How about we think of the fact that vader was a glorified whiny force using cyborg who was defeated by 1 sith lord (who I say was less powerful than vitiate (another time another thread)) and revan is a ****** who survived being fired at by an entire barage of lasers, a planetary extinction event (save the rakghouls), a gigantic mega bomb on malachor V, survived for 3 hundred years while actually influencing vitiate into thinking temporary peace was in his best interest, and was only killed after 2 sith lords, a cipher agent, and the grand champion of the great hunt tracked him down and may not have even killed him (wheres the corpse Bioware?) after facing lightning, meteores, and a mastery of saber combat. ok i give vader credit for being a saber master too but still it took much more to kill revan than vader who died essentially from circuit overload and suffocation.

 

Revan>Vader

You clearly didn't look at the scans I put up on pages 34/38.

*Snip*

You're really going to use Order 66 as an accurate judge of Plo Koon's abilities? Your "logic" is flawed for a few reasons.

1. Plo Koon was in a STARFIGHTER. What did you expect him to do?

2. He trusted his Clone escort to watch his back. He never expected them to betray him.

3. Sidious had stacked the deck so high against him (and the rest of the Jedi) to the point that there was no chance that he could get out of there.

Even the mighty Revan would have been killed had he been in Plo Koon's position.

If you are going to seriously use Order 66, make sure you have your facts right.

This should help you:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=533833

You're really going to use Order 66 as an accurate judge of Plo Koon's abilities? Your "logic" is flawed for a few reasons.

 

1. Plo Koon was in a STARFIGHTER. What did you expect him to do?

I do not know ..........use his ADVANCED SABER skill you go on and on about !

2. He trusted his Clone escort to watch his back. He never expected them to betray him.

So did Obi-Wan , Yoda , and the many other Jedi who did not die to Order 66 . They must been just greater huh ?

3. Sidious had stacked the deck so high against him (and the rest of the Jedi) to the point that there was no chance that he could get out of there.

But other Jedi did!

 

Even the mighty Revan would have been killed had he been in Plo Koon's position.

So because Plo Koon died by a Average Clone Trooper , You ASSUME Revan would too ? Maybe Revan would have been like Obi-Wan or the many other Jedi . Because not all of them died to Order 66.

 

If you are going to seriously use Order 66, make sure you have your facts right.

Yes because you know all the facts .

This should help you:http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=533833

Plo Koon died to a Average Clone Trooper , Revan "Might" have died two 4 Above Average even Great Characters .

You see we have to put something else into this.

Revan like Vader, Luke , Bane , Exar Kun , Meetra , Kyle , Cade , Jaina , Anakin , is a MAIN CHARACTER not just a Character add that builds a Story .

Obi-Wan , less powerful and possibly less skilled than Plo-Koon survived Order 66 because he was Wiser and Probably much more Smarter ! If Anything Revan would have been that .

While in the start I respected you threads I have come to the conclusion that anything wroten by you is now Biased . You use Flawed Logic to attack a Character because of Lack of imformation on his skills and powers and use the knowing of someone elses to try to prove your point.

You never been in the Army , probably never taken up selfdefense class, or played chess . All of those teach you that not knowing someones skills but knowing the achieved wins shows that they are good at what they do . You would have us wash that all away because the lack of imformation of his skills and abilities . Revan won Battles , killed Jedi Masters and Sith Lords , and has lost to someone far more powerful than Plo Koon . I think its safe to say , Revan is not a Push over and has skills and abilities that even not so much know would be worthy of your GREAT Plo Koon to walk into a Fight ready to get it brought to him !

I do not think Revan would beat Vader but I think he would bring the fight to him and Vader would know he fought someone worthy !

Plo Koon died to a Average Clone Trooper , Revan "Might" have died two 4 Above Average even Great Characters .

 

You see we have to put something else into this.

 

Revan like Vader, Luke , Bane , Exar Kun , Meetra , Kyle , Cade , Jaina , Anakin , is a MAIN CHARACTER not just a Character add that builds a Story .

 

Obi-Wan , less powerful and possibly less skilled than Plo-Koon survived Order 66 because he was Wiser and Probably much more Smarter ! If Anything Revan would have been that .

[/color]

Let me get this straight. You expect Plo Koon to leap out of his starfighter and attack his own clone troops? Right when that first shot was fire from the ARC-170's, Plo Koon was done. There was no way for him to get out. He was in an even worse position than Stass Allie.

The attack on Obi-Wan failed miserably. If you watch ROTS again, you will see the laser blast from the AT-TE strike the cliffside, which knocked Obi-Wan off and into the pits. Yoda survived due to his masterful precognitive abilities and the fact that he could feel the simultaneous deaths of his fellow Jedi across the galaxy. The other survivors, I'm not too sure about. At any rate, Plo Koon was in a bad position in which he could not do anything.

Let me get this straight. You expect Plo Koon to leap out of his starfighter and attack his own clone troops? Right when that first shot was fire from the ARC-170's, Plo Koon was done. There was no way for him to get out. He was in an even worse position than Stass Allie.

Maybe Plo Koon just was not a great Pilot then ?

The attack on Obi-Wan failed miserably. If you watch ROTS again, you will see the laser blast from the AT-TE strike the cliffside, which knocked Obi-Wan off and into the pits. Yoda survived due to his masterful precognitive abilities and the fact that he could feel the simultaneous deaths of his fellow Jedi across the galaxy. The other survivors, I'm not too sure about. At any rate, Plo Koon was in a bad position in which he could not do anything.

Excuses , my point is not eveyr Jedi with Skills and Abilities measures up . Plo Koon comes from More PEACEFUL times , while Revan is battle Harded and is wise to know in his prime that betrayal can happen (Taught to him by his Best Friend Malek )!

Different times .

Excuses , my point is not eveyr Jedi with Skills and Abilities measures up . Plo Koon comes from More PEACEFUL times , while Revan is battle Harded and is wise to know in his prime that betrayal can happen (Taught to him by his Best Friend Malek )!

 

Different times .

Actually Plo Koon was the third best pilot in the Order.

Glad you brought that betrayal up. Revan was almost killed by Malak. If Bastila hadn't saved him, Revan would have died. So what does that say? Nothing. Unless Revan knew it was coming, then it says alot. Revan knew Malak would betray him again, but he didn't expect it at that time.

Plo Koon is in a similar boat. He didn't see it coming.

Excuses eh? So the facts are just excuses. /sigh

I'm done here.

Actually Plo Koon was the third best pilot in the Order.

 

Glad you brought that betrayal up. Revan was almost killed by Malak. If Bastila hadn't saved him, Revan would have died. So what does that say? Nothing. Unless Revan knew it was coming, then it says alot. Revan knew Malak would betray him again, but he didn't expect it at that time.

 

Plo Koon is in a similar boat. He didn't see it coming.

 

Excuses eh? So the facts are just excuses. /sigh

 

I'm done here.

Not sure you should have added that 1st bit, cause now hes gonna ask. "Well if hes the 3rd best pilot in the Order, then how come he got shot down?"

See! I beat him to the punch!

Not sure you should have added that 1st bit, cause now hes gonna ask. "Well if hes the 3rd best pilot in the Order, then how come he got shot down?"

 

See! I beat him to the punch!

Probably, but I tire of arguing with him.

I posted the Order 66 thread I made, but I doubt he even read it.

Probably, but I tire of arguing with him.

 

I posted the Order 66 thread I made, but I doubt he even read it.

I did but at this point I am going to discard anything you write as it is wroten by a Biased Hand .

Revan is in my Top 10 favorite StarWars Characters and you belittle his character with extreme Bias ! Why should I respect anything you write when you Protect Plo Koon and put down Revan ?

Revan won Wars, Plo Koon lost the only War he seen ! Revan Lead Generals , Plo Koon was a General .

Take it how you will but as long as you show Biased when it suits you , I will never respect your Debat .

I am not arguing Revan will lose to Vader , I am arguing the point you are saying that he would get Steam Rolled.

Plo Koon would lose to Vader too !