This change needs to be visible outside of a small debuff among the sea of hundreds of buffs/debuffs on a target, especially when it effects Multiple targets. So now, before I use a grenade, I have to target every target I want to grenade, make sure they don't have the debuff, then grenade. Otherwise I am grenading with a hope and prayer.

 

Do you actually need to check the whole thing? The only time I ever saw people use them was when they wanted another CC when 1v1'ing me. Of course, I only ever saw people use them when I'd been PUG into a lost cause warzone, so that's just as likely why as anything.

 

I really hope that, if this is going to stick, it'll only apply to the CC. I think the pyro grenade is pretty handy DPS, but it has no CC, and I've never seen anyone complaining about it.

Yes, heaven forbid it will take some team coordination and/or actually looking at a target's debuffs.

 

Wouldn't want the game to be too difficult now!

 

Arena's =/= the whole game.

I think this is a fair nerf. Luckily Bioware did not remove the grenades at all and my cooldown on grenades I think is 3 minutes anyway so I think its fair.

 

 

BIOWARE IF YOU ARE READING THIS THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR LETTING ME KEEP MY GRENADES I LOVE USING THEM AND CRAFTING THEM, I LIKE BEING A SITH THAT CAN CAUSE EARTHQUAKES;)

Do you actually need to check the whole thing? The only time I ever saw people use them was when they wanted another CC when 1v1'ing me. Of course, I only ever saw people use them when I'd been PUG into a lost cause warzone, so that's just as likely why as anything.

 

I really hope that, if this is going to stick, it'll only apply to the CC. I think the pyro grenade is pretty handy DPS, but it has no CC, and I've never seen anyone complaining about it.

 

When 8v8 ranked warzones still existed, I went through stacks and stacks of grenades. There was no reason not to use them at the competitive level because a well placed grenade when your other CC's were on cooldown could be the difference between victory and loss.

 

Going back to my main point. Bioware has a way of creating new problems with every proposed solution. Remember when they wanted to reset the CC breaker upon death and we reminded them how we could exploit that, this change is a band-aid for too much CC being in the game + the resolve system needing reworking.

 

If bioware thinks people are being CC'd too much then make resolve last longer, change the amount of resolve given for CC's, have your CC breaker fill your resolve, at least this way it is clear to every player, whether hardcore or extremely casual when you can CC a target.

 

@Morde - Bioware should balance for both the hardcore and casual. With solo ranked arenas entering in 2.4, there is no way a team can be as coordinated as a 4 man in voice chat. This is where I am worried, we will get stuck with teammates who do not know how or when to use grenades and this change only makes it harder to coordinate in this aspect. As a result, when I really need to pull that grenade out of my pocket to make a split second savior of my life, it will fail.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ManiacDavis

an okay change although they really should be removed

Should just make them not so drastic of a KD. Maybe a KD that is brief. Enough to get a sniper out of cover or interrupt an action, but really only last a global or less. Basically, make it more purely a utility available to everyone yet less annoying.

While I would be happier if they just remove them from the game I'm glad this change is happening at the least. Not every class should have an AoE stun ability...isn't that the reason you bring someone who can? Lets not normalise all classes and abilities and everyone can do the same thing. Edited August 28, 2013 by rhakoth

Stupid nerf for no reason.

I guess this will just make the double smash,guardian and operative healer set-ups even more op in rateds.

If Bioware want to reduce CC bring the resolve system back to pre 1.4..

CC and resolve are fine atm but this is gonna really hurt classes without AoE ccs....

RIP SWTOR

Edited August 28, 2013 by Aehgo

Still a disadvantage if you dont use them. It still forces the player to buy/craft them if he wants to maximize their chances in pvp.

I like the change, less CC will be welcomed.

 

At the same time I wish the agent and warrior AoE CC would be tuned down or given a cast time. I mean if single target mezzes have cast times, why are AoE ones instant? That make any sense to anyone?

Edited August 28, 2013 by Monterone

I like the change, less CC will be welcomed.

 

At the same time I wish the agent and warrior AoE CC would be tuned down or given a cast time. I mean if single target mezzes have cast times, why are AoE ones instant? That make any sense to anyone?

 

Well the warrior one is melee range only really, and lasts just 6s.

 

The agent one on the other hand, is for all intents and purposes overpowered. 30m range, instant cast, AOE. No other class has anything even closely resembling that.

I like the change, less CC will be welcomed.

 

At the same time I wish the agent and warrior AoE CC would be tuned down or given a cast time. I mean if single target mezzes have cast times, why are AoE ones instant? That make any sense to anyone?

 

It doesn't make sense. But then we have a class with no CD lolroll and 2 separate abilities to cleanse roots and snares that would try to counter it.

Well the warrior one is melee range only really, and lasts just 6s.

 

The agent one on the other hand, is for all intents and purposes overpowered. 30m range, instant cast, AOE. No other class has anything even closely resembling that.

 

I stand corrected.

Edited August 28, 2013 by ManiacDavis

To the best of my knowledge the warrior one lasts 8 seconds.

 

6. It's less than agent CC.

I just don't understand why everyone feels the need for an AoE CC. It's something that sould be given to certain classes, and those that don't should have other unique abilities that are also sought after. Hemogenization of abilities is never a good thing for me so the toning down of nades is a great first step.

I'm alright with this change, especially for arenas.

 

Nadespam gets annoying for everyone, and now it's less about throwing them at random and more about saving them for the right opportunity to save a life or get a kill.

 

the same can be said for all cds in general

 

 

 

CD resets have no place in a CD-based game

 

don't reset CDs. at all.

Stop getting crewskill envy. Buy the grenades, just like you would buy stims for pvp.

 

This new change is silly, you're just making it so we're fighting the UI instead of the player. Like hell we're gonna tab every player to see if they have the BASTION debuff.

 

Fine if you want to nerf grenades this way, just make it visible. Otherwise it really is 'spray and pray'.

So, my Force Barrier, the one defensive cooldown I have, is on a 3 minute cooldown. I kite, LOS, and heal to full so much I may well be out of LOS of crossheals. I pop Force Barrier, the marauders all build their rage on me just waiting for the free kill.

 

Yay I've got them all gathered up! I throw a grenade on their heads, then sprint off, LOS and position myself to heal to full. And I make them pay for trying to kill me.

 

Now with this change, I may or may not be able to sprint off and heal myself to full. Since I'm not lightning spec, I have no AOE CC whatsoever, and when I need AOE CC, it may or may not work. I must assume this nerf is a result of smashers QQing about intelligent sorcs getting away by synergizing Force Barrier with grenades, even though those sorcs sacrifice the utility of using grenades for objective-based PVP if they're holding them back to increase the efficacy of their lone defensive cooldown. So now, this nerf begs the question:

 

Hey Bioware, was it ever intended that we sorcs would need to burn consumables to make Force Barrier useful for PVP? If it was not intended, why does it not do something similar to the old, bad bubblestun so that we have a window to sprint/pop unnatural preservation or a medpac at the end? A single, self-only bubblestun once every 3 minutes is hardly OP, and there's a world of difference between that and team bubblestun with a 14-second lockout.

Edited August 28, 2013 by AdrianDmitruk

"All Cybertech grenades now bestow a new effect, the Bastion, on the target in addition to normal effects. Players who have this effect applied are immune to further Cybertech grenade attacks for the duration of Bastion (3 minutes)."

 

From the updated patch notes on PTS Today (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=671978).

 

Thoughts?

 

Seems like a good change to me, I expected their complete removal, this is a decent middle-ground and may satisfy those that love the grenades.

 

lower it to 1.5m and its a great change

So, my Force Barrier, the one defensive cooldown I have, is on a 3 minute cooldown. I kite, LOS, and heal to full so much I may well be out of LOS of crossheals. I pop Force Barrier, the marauders all build their rage on me just waiting for the free kill.

 

Yay I've got them all gathered up! I throw a grenade on their heads, then sprint off, LOS and position myself to heal to full. And I make them pay for trying to kill me.

 

Now with this change, I may or may not be able to sprint off and heal myself to full. Since I'm not lightning spec, I have no AOE CC whatsoever, and when I need AOE CC, it may or may not work. I must assume this nerf is a result of smashers QQing about intelligent sorcs getting away by synergizing Force Barrier with grenades, even though those sorcs sacrifice the utility of using grenades for objective-based PVP if they're holding them back to increase the efficacy of their lone defensive cooldown. So now, this nerf begs the question:

 

Hey Bioware, was it ever intended that we sorcs would need to burn consumables to make Force Barrier useful for PVP? If it was not intended, why does it not do something similar to the old, bad bubblestun so that we have a window to sprint/pop unnatural preservation or a medpac at the end? A single, self-only bubblestun once every 3 minutes is hardly OP, and there's a world of difference between that and team bubblestun with a 14-second lockout.

This! Grenades are a must for a sorc in terms of defensive cool downs especially since all our heals except UP are channeled and can be interrupted.

But whatevs I rolled my sorc over a year ago back when there were only 10 people on the imp fleet because the empire needed healers in wzs. I spent 1.4 thru 2.0 traumatizing teams with my bubble stuns grouped with Fotm Pt and a jug. The empire no longer needs my healer services now that imperial intelligence has given us a surplus of operative healers. Time to play my tank or Merc

Part of the Arena balancing. WoW completely removed the usage of this stuff at some point. I think BW should stop dancing around the pole and just create a separate set of rules for those canned deathmatches. They already blocked power adrenals and usable relics. Get rid of grenades and there will be less factors to balance classes around, which is a good thing. Might bring them back when the balance is solid. Yeah, not gonna happen...

The agent one on the other hand, is for all intents and purposes overpowered. 30m range, instant cast, AOE. No other class has anything even closely resembling that.

 

Sniper/Slinger is 30m range.

 

Operative/Scoundrel is 10m range.

 

Anyway with that cleared up, limiting trinkets is good for everyone. Every team (in arena) now has 1 potential extra CC beyond what their team composition gives them, per round. If you think normalizing that form of extra CC is anti competitive, then you don't know what competitive really means.

 

Grenades being a "must" for certain classes to function is a flaw in class balance and should be adressed with improved class balance. Not by handing out trinket spam.

Edited August 28, 2013 by Marius_Xerxes

Why not use resolve bar to balance the grenades? why THIS?

Good intentions with the nerf, but bad application.

Different grenades should be treated differently and be on different timers.

Root grenades and pyro grenades right now are a joke, they should be viable and on shorter cooldowns.

 

The seismic grenade is the exploitation of choice. Why treat it different than other forms of cc though? Just make it instafill the victim's resolve bar. Exploit removed.

 

I think the grenade is important in some survival situations, but when used to suppress an entire team it gets to be a joke.

 

I think making a long immunity to it is a band-aid solution. It would make more sense to adjust the usage in a way that current mechanics compliment, or just remove them entirely and give more cc skills to dps troopers and sages, making those classes more viable in groups.

Sniper/Slinger is 30m range.

 

Operative/Scoundrel is 10m range.

 

Anyway with that cleared up, limiting trinkets is good for everyone. Every team (in arena) now has 1 potential extra CC beyond what their team composition gives them, per round. If you think normalizing that form of extra CC is anti competitive, then you don't know what competitive really means.

 

Grenades being a "must" for certain classes to function is a flaw in class balance and should be adressed with improved class balance. Not by handing out trinket spam.

 

Ah yeah, I always forget that they are different. You know what I meant tho lol.