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Is the Empire really driven that far back?


Denatharion

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So I played ROTHC from the first day of EA and what amazed me was how the empire was portrayed. Darth Marr told me the Empire would be gone within a year if we didnt get the Magic stuff from Makeb (not naming it to avoid spoiling. And further in the Story he tells me we lost 3 planets already during the duration of the operation.

 

Now I know Malgus his acts and that of the Dreadmasters was a severe blow to the Empire, but the Republic suffered to from those. And they lost Ilum (With Master Jaeric Kaedan) and we won Corellia (though costly).

 

Hearing all this made me Q_Q as I am a true Imperial Loyalist ;(

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the empire lost both illum and corellia. balmorra as well, taris was our only true win, and that was just to a keep a ruined city in ruins, not even gaining anything. the empire is in this position because of terrible tactics and sith infighting.
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Now I know Malgus his acts and that of the Dreadmasters was a severe blow to the Empire, but the Republic suffered to from those. And they lost Ilum (With Master Jaeric Kaedan) and we won Corellia (though costly).

 

Hearing all this made me Q_Q as I am a true Imperial Loyalist ;(

 

Coming from someone with 8 Imperial 50s, all LS V, you couldn't speak to a more loyal and patriotic Imperial :p

So I know just how badly the current situation sucks. And with the new lead writer being the writer who did the JK story (very mediocre at best) it's not looking hopeful for us.

 

However, it is all explained. (I have 2 republic toons I'm leveling, a JK at 43 and a JC at 30).

 

OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS BELOW, READ AT PERIL

 

Due to massive Imperial disorganisation, huge amounts of petty and stupid Sith in-fighting, the Star Cabal & Republic determination to wipe the Empire out, we don't really stand a chance. As Darth Marr says himself during the opening convo on Makeb, he says to my Warrior and my Inquisitor that if the Sith (predominantly -us- being the most powerful and/or influential sith in the empire) don't start working together in solidarity, honour and patriotism we are doomed. The Sith (majority of them) care about nothing else but power, and themselves. They are a blight on the name of sith and should be exterminated (thanks Bane).

 

Anyway, I ramble.

 

Empire wins Balmorra, a HUGE bonus for us. But short-lived. The Republic soon takes it back, gaining them and losing us some of the most powerful droid & weapon factories in galaxy. And we also lose Corellia (a small victory to begin with, seeing as it cost us 1/10 of our entire force, a ridiculously huge loss)- did you not play the Black Hole (Corellia bonus series) daily zone? It's kind of the point of it. We lost Corellia, and in a last-ditch effort before we retreat the planet, a small strike team are sent there (with you leading them) to destroy all infrastructure on Corellia, making it a barren, empty, worthless planet which is a drain on the Republic instead of a gain. (also being the founding planet OF the Republic its a moral loss). However, it's still a loss for us.

 

And as you said, Malgus' betrayal, the loss of another huge swathe of our Fleet (if Empire cannon really is DS, which is lame, then in FE flashpoint the DS option to kill Arkus costs us our fleet, again. Whereas LS saves it...)

And the Dread Masters, like republic getting a destroyed Corellia, its a huge morale loss for us. Dread Masters were one of most powerful weapons we had, and they just buggered off, and are attacking us. YAY!

 

Also, as is announced on Makeb (whether it's true or not), the Republic formally announces the Emperor's 'death'. a MASSIVE win for the Republic (symbolic win if nothing else).

 

The Bounty Hunter kills the Republic's Supreme Chancellor. Seems like a win for us, however all that does is bring in the new chick into power, and she is MUCH better, more efficient and war-mongering than her predecessor. All this does is make the Republic sharpen its teeth and claws.

 

As for Ilum, not a huge loss for Republic. By that time, Jaeric is old and worn-out.

 

Let's not forget (but connected to Dread Guards) EC- lots of Imperial troops defect and are killed, by us.

 

Then of course comes the Star Cabal (Imperial Agent story). a massive secret organisation who plays the Galaxy to their own needs. They puppeted the entire war, and play Republic and Empire for fools. They cause the disbanding of Imperial Intelligence - this is ultimately one of the biggest losses the Empire suffers. Imperial Intelligence is the number 1 advantage the Empire has over the Republic. Intelligence is an absolutely superb ministry of spies and assassins, and this is proven that once it is disbanded, the Republic SIS and army gains their biggest victories against us, and we have NO idea what is going or or how to stop it. The Empire crumbles without Intelligence.

 

Sure there's loads more, but I'm too eager to start playing, so I'm gonna stop writing :p

 

EDIT- how could I forget about Class stories? lol

 

Anyway: All Imperial class story final bosses (except Bounty Hunter, but explained above ^) are Sith.. it's *********** ridiculous. All Republic final bosses, are Sith. It's just SO not fair.

Sith Warrior- kills Darth Baras, genius behind the Sacking of Coruscant and the instigator of the Second Great Galactic War (the one we're in now). Ultimately, a pretty big loss... Baras being one of the cleverest Sith around.

Sith Inquisitor- kills Darth Thanaton, another loss for the Empire. Another clever and powerful Sith, traditional, honourable. The reason for his death is also pretty lame, he made a terrible arch-enemy. pointless

Imperial Agent- Act 1- Kills Darth Jadus (for fair reason, but its still an insanely powerful, clever, and logical Sith) and well, Hunter and the Star Cabal, fair enough. but still not anti-Republic. So.. for ALL of our classes, not once of us makes any big impact on the Republic.

 

However, the Republic is the exact opposite. All we (majority of crappy sith) care about is killing each other, all the Republic cares about is killing us.

Edited by Kampori
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Play all the class stories, do all the world quests, and every bit of content related to the overall galactic conflict and you can see why the Empire is in such poor shape. All our "victories" on our side are quickly undone by the Republic after our character leaves to continue with the more pressing issues of our individual classes.

 

With Taris being our only claim to fame, one that in the greater scheme of things is rather insignificant, and a lot of our resources and opportunities mismanaged, the Empire was dismantling. The whole reason the Dread Masters and Malgus made their move was because the Empire was falling apart, so yeah, we were already repulsed pretty far and a lot of the intelligent Sith cut ties and took power when they saw the chance.

 

Our Emperor being silent alone has caused the power vacuum that made this possible, culminating in our fractured Empire that has been struggling to stay together.

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Coming from someone with 8 Imperial 50s, all LS V, you couldn't speak to a more loyal and patriotic Imperial :p

So I know just how badly the current situation sucks. And with the new lead writer being the writer who did the JK story (very mediocre at best) it's not looking hopeful for us.

 

However, it is all explained. (I have 2 republic toons I'm leveling, a JK at 43 and a JC at 30).

 

OBVIOUSLY SPOILERS BELOW, READ AT PERIL

 

Due to massive Imperial disorganisation, huge amounts of petty and stupid Sith in-fighting, the Star Cabal & Republic determination to wipe the Empire out, we don't really stand a chance. As Darth Marr says himself during the opening convo on Makeb, he says to my Warrior and my Inquisitor that if the Sith (predominantly -us- being the most powerful and/or influential sith in the empire) don't start working together in solidarity, honour and patriotism we are doomed. The Sith (majority of them) care about nothing else but power, and themselves. They are a blight on the name of sith and should be exterminated (thanks Bane).

 

Anyway, I ramble.

 

Empire wins Balmorra, a HUGE bonus for us. But short-lived. The Republic soon takes it back, gaining them and losing us some of the most powerful droid & weapon factories in galaxy. And we also lose Corellia (a small victory to begin with, seeing as it cost us 1/10 of our entire force, a ridiculously huge loss)- did you not play the Black Hole (Corellia bonus series) daily zone? It's kind of the point of it. We lost Corellia, and in a last-ditch effort before we retreat the planet, a small strike team are sent there (with you leading them) to destroy all infrastructure on Corellia, making it a barren, empty, worthless planet which is a drain on the Republic instead of a gain. (also being the founding planet OF the Republic its a moral loss). However, it's still a loss for us.

 

And as you said, Malgus' betrayal, the loss of another huge swathe of our Fleet (if Empire cannon really is DS, which is lame, then in FE flashpoint the DS option to kill Arkus costs us our fleet, again. Whereas LS saves it...)

And the Dread Masters, like republic getting a destroyed Corellia, its a huge morale loss for us. Dread Masters were one of most powerful weapons we had, and they just buggered off, and are attacking us. YAY!

 

Also, as is announced on Makeb (whether it's true or not), the Republic formally announces the Emperor's 'death'. a MASSIVE win for the Republic (symbolic win if nothing else).

 

The Bounty Hunter kills the Republic's Supreme Chancellor. Seems like a win for us, however all that does is bring in the new chick into power, and she is MUCH better, more efficient and war-mongering than her predecessor. All this does is make the Republic sharpen its teeth and claws.

 

As for Ilum, not a huge loss for Republic. By that time, Jaeric is old and worn-out.

 

Let's not forget (but connected to Dread Guards) EC- lots of Imperial troops defect and are killed, by us.

 

Then of course comes the Star Cabal (Imperial Agent story). a massive secret organisation who plays the Galaxy to their own needs. They puppeted the entire war, and play Republic and Empire for fools. They cause the disbanding of Imperial Intelligence - this is ultimately one of the biggest losses the Empire suffers. Imperial Intelligence is the number 1 advantage the Empire has over the Republic. Intelligence is an absolutely superb ministry of spies and assassins, and this is proven that once it is disbanded, the Republic SIS and army gains their biggest victories against us, and we have NO idea what is going or or how to stop it. The Empire crumbles without Intelligence.

 

Sure there's loads more, but I'm too eager to start playing, so I'm gonna stop writing :p

 

EDIT- how could I forget about Class stories? lol

 

Anyway: All Imperial class story final bosses (except Bounty Hunter, but explained above ^) are Sith.. it's *********** ridiculous. All Republic final bosses, are Sith. It's just SO not fair.

Sith Warrior- kills Darth Baras, genius behind the Sacking of Coruscant and the instigator of the Second Great Galactic War (the one we're in now). Ultimately, a pretty big loss... Baras being one of the cleverest Sith around.

Sith Inquisitor- kills Darth Thanaton, another loss for the Empire. Another clever and powerful Sith, traditional, honourable. The reason for his death is also pretty lame, he made a terrible arch-enemy. pointless

Imperial Agent- well, Hunter and the Star Cabal, fair enough. but still not anti-Republic. So.. for ALL of our classes, not once of us makes any big impact on the Republic.

 

However, the Republic is the exact opposite. All we (majority of crappy sith) care about is killing each other, all the Republic cares about is killing us.

 

This was a great read--cleared lots of things up for me--thanks!

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Also (SPOILER):

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One of the biggest blows to the Empire occurs after the Republic FP in Maelstrom Prison, when Revan's liberators kill Grand Moff Kilran. If anyone could have held the Imperial Fleet together as a cohesive and effective force, it would have been him. Sure, he answered to the Sith, but he needed no Sith to be an effective fleet commander - he was a human version of Grand Admiral Thrawn, who never got Thrawn's opportunities to prove his worth under crushing pressure.

Edited by Aebrynis
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Yes. We are losing this war but the devs are just making things the way that really are. In the end we Sith kill each other, we are the "bad guys" . Now I feel like we are losing too fast... It should be like on the movies making the bad guys feel like winning til the end. Just my opinion.
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The Empire lost Corellia, bad. Mostly due to the actions of the Imperial Agent Imp side and the Consular leading the Rift Alliance there who turned the tide. [the Supreme Jedi Commander mostly just made the Jedi get their **** together.] It didn't help that 90% of what you do on your class quests Corellia as a Warrior and Inquisitor are weakening your own side as well.
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Why is the Empire being thrown that far off?

 

Lets see the Empire lost the following:

 

 

Balmorra, Correlia, Belsalvis, Quesh, Alderaan.

 

 

Only took:

 

 

Taris

 

 

So really, if you read the spoilers, plus all the infighting...what do you expect?

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is makeb suspose to take place b4 or after black hole because there is a conversation option with marr and you say but we won" ilium and corellia." but from what I understand we lost corellia and black hole is just to make it worthless for the republic
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And with the new lead writer being the writer who did the JK story (very mediocre at best) it's not looking hopeful for us.

 

Just FYI, The guy who wrote the Imperial Agent story wrote the Makeb Imperial storyline (though he is now freelance).

 

The Smuggler/JK wrtier has *always* held the title "lead writer" along with all the class writers, he isn't the only one still writing and it doesn't mean he's in total control of where the story will go and that he is Republic biased. But we all know the Empire loses, anyway, that's a given since we're playing in the past.

 

Also, regarding Darth Jadus

 

 

 

He is never killed in any of the 3 character choices. He gets away in all of them but one where he is merely imprisoned, for all we know he could escape.

 

Edited by chuixupu
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Just FYI, The guy who wrote the Imperial Agent story wrote the Makeb Imperial storyline (though he is now freelance).

 

Also, regarding Darth Jadus

 

 

 

He is never killed in any of the 3 character choices. He gets away in all of them but one where he is merely imprisoned, for all we know he could escape.

 

True, but in the end it's just semantics

 

For all intents and purposes, he is dead by our hands (unless somehow you joined him, but that just can't fit in with cannon so I'm going to ignore that option) He engaged us in a fight to kill us, and us to kill/capture him. Either way, he's an enemy-gone-rogue-gone-dead-gone-missing.. just gone. And the sentiment remains, he is sith, and we got rid of him

 

 

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Ugh. I need to run a Bounty Hunter next and shoot that bureaucratic Chancellor scum---BAM!---right between the eyes. Then maybe I'll be in a better mood. :D

 

Despite the knock-on effects it causes, it is supremely satisfying to behead the Supreme Chancellor. and the Sith don't stop kissing your arse afterwards.

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We are in "A new hope" territory still. The empire will strike back soon. Empire won big on Makeb. It got the planet and the Isotope-5. Republic got a bunch of refugees and a dubious alliances with surviving Hutts.

 

Motivationman has it exactly. right now we're at the end of a new hope. the good guys have their first big victory things are looking up etc.

 

Makeb has set things in motion for the Empire to regain it's footing. Darth Marr is clearly a smarter, Malgus in that he's going to push through some reforms (he's just not gonna invite attack while doing so)

 

I imagine the next big expansion will be very much centered on the Empire resurgent.

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True, but in the end it's just semantics

 

For all intents and purposes, he is dead by our hands (unless somehow you joined him, but that just can't fit in with cannon so I'm going to ignore that option) He engaged us in a fight to kill us, and us to kill/capture him. Either way, he's an enemy-gone-rogue-gone-dead-gone-missing.. just gone. And the sentiment remains, he is sith, and we got rid of him

 

 

 

Are you entirely sure, though? It isn't ever specifically said what happened after we leave the ship. For all we know, he could have escaped, bribed, had inside agents there,, etc.. I tend to believe that if in any option he lives, especially considering that they even give you the option to "join" him, that he's intended to live, but just be out of the plot for the time being.

 

It just depends on whether the writers find a reason to have him return to the plot at any point or not.

 

Edited by chuixupu
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Are you entirely sure, though? It isn't ever specifically said what happened after we leave the ship. For all we know, he could have escaped, bribed, had inside agents there,, etc.. I tend to believe that if in any option he lives, especially considering that they even give you the option to "join" him, that he's intended to live, but just be out of the plot for the time being.

 

It just depends on whether the writers find a reason to have him return to the plot at any point or not.

 

No, we don't know. But with most writers having moved off this game, and BioWare making the move from Class - World/interactive story, I extremely (however unfortunately) doubt we will see a return to ANY class quest, let alone one particular character. Altho if any were to return, I guess he would... bah but still :rak_02: I don't see it happening

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I didn't finish Makeb story yet, so I'm not going to read through this thread to avoid big spoilers, but from what I know, I think it's real shame how devs treat us. Already in vanilla, I wasn't convinced by the way they explained loss of Corellia after I basically drove the Republic of the planet in Darth Decimus storyline. All this feels like it doesn't really matter what u do. They will decide what happens next and be sure it's not going to be good for Empire. Edited by zzoorrzz
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I didn't finish Makeb story yet, so I'm not going to read through this thread to avoid big spoilers, but from what I know, I think it's real shame how devs treat us. Already in vanilla, I wasn't convinced by the way they explained loss of Corellia after I basically drove the Republic of the planet in Darth Decimus storyline. All this feels like it doesn't really matter what u do. They will decide what happens next and be sure it's not going to be good for Empire.

 

If you did every single world arc, from Dromund Kaas to Corellia, it's not really that hard to understand how the Republic was able to drive the Empire out; Just take into consideration this...

 

On Hoth, you have a retired high ranking officer, who's willing to sacrifice thousands(!!!) of soldiers to reach a stalemate with the Republic, despite not being able to proove it's actually worth the bother.

 

On Dromund Kaas, you have a Sith Lord who prefers to waste his time - and that of the imperial military - on a pointless slave rebellion, that should be put to rest swiftly and efficiently and instead, the latter decides to prolong it. On the same planet, the cradle of the imperial might, you have Sith infighting that further weakens the order and the military, since the former answers to the latter.

 

On Corellia alone, according to Darth Malgus, the Empire lost a tenth(!!!) of its forces, during the time of the occupation and before they were driven out of the planet, not to mention that the Empire is not capable, for the most part, of working with the locals, without stabbing them in the back eventually.

 

Having all this in mind, you seriously fail to understand how the Republic was able to drive them out? I could go on but i'm trying not to go into spoiler land.

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True, but in the end it's just semantics

 

For all intents and purposes, he is dead by our hands (unless somehow you joined him, but that just can't fit in with cannon so I'm going to ignore that option) He engaged us in a fight to kill us, and us to kill/capture him. Either way, he's an enemy-gone-rogue-gone-dead-gone-missing.. just gone. And the sentiment remains, he is sith, and we got rid of him

 

 

1. How does it not fit in with canon?

 

2. You can't just ignore an option you don't like. And neither can Bioware. I agree that Jadus will probably never reappear, but only because it seems unlikely that we're getting class story expansions any time in the foreseeable future, and I don't think I would be the only one who would be highly annoyed if Bioware started ripping characters from class storylines and putting them into the general game and thus effectively saying, "Well if you didn't pick x/y/z choice in your storyline, too bad, your story is now nullified."

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1. How does it not fit in with canon?

 

2. You can't just ignore an option you don't like. And neither can Bioware. I agree that Jadus will probably never reappear, but only because it seems unlikely that we're getting class story expansions any time in the foreseeable future, and I don't think I would be the only one who would be highly annoyed if Bioware started ripping characters from class storylines and putting them into the general game and thus effectively saying, "Well if you didn't pick x/y/z choice in your storyline, too bad, your story is now nullified."

 

Would LOVE to know that as well.

 

Reminds me of some old discussions I used to have with people, when KoToR 2 and the original Mass Effect came out. For some reason, some people immediately assume that their vision is the canon one. :\

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