are you like 12??? Because it seems no matter how many time you get proven wrong you simply ignore it because you do not hear what you want... it is quite childish.

It takes more than your assertion, no matter how many times you make it, that something has been proved to prove something.

"We are merely suggesting that similar classes should be able to share one character."

 

I have yet to hear an argument for AC change that really amounts to any more than "We want it" and so I am not convinced that the change would add anything of significant enough value to the game as a whole to make up for the loss of an RPG element.

People wanted Free to Play "Just because" - they got it

People wanted Modable gear at low levels "Just because" - they got it

People wanted speeders at lvl 10 instead of lvl 25 "Just because" - they got it

The thing to note is most games are designed with Casual players in mind. The tougher you make it, the less likely most casuals are to play these days. Hence the Cartel Market. You can BUY just about anything you want for your game, and you keep playing because now you have incentive.

In World of Warcraft, they asked for Dual Spec for years. And when they finally got it, it was 1000gold. They asked for it to be reduced. It became 10 gold. They asked for a level reduction, it went from 40 to 30 (or 50 to 40, been a LONG time ago). Same with mounts. Went from lvl 40 to lvl 20 and went from 1k gold to 7 gold.

People ask because they want choices. They love options that improve THEIR quality of life in the game. It would have zero impact on anyone else, but would make their game that much better. Same thing goes for player housing. I couldn't care less if we ever got it, but I am not going to boycott it simply because someone else wants a feature that I think is beyond stupid. Why have a feature in an Adventure game that encourages you to ignore the Adventure and stay inside decorating? The SIMS has that covered. But, if they want it, they should be allowed to ask for it.

People like options. They like to play multiple classes and would love to switch between Powertech and Merc without having to log out and log back in. If RIFT can do it, and do it well, there is no reason why this could not be a 350K cred / 2k CC unlock PER character (not Legacy). People claim it would damage the game, but I don't see having a basic choice available in other MMOs as being detrimental.

You cant put points in anything without picking retribution holy or paladin as a paladin. Same with trooper, you cant access any skill tree without selecting what you want to be.

Does a ret pally have three talent trees? NO.

Does a holy pally have three talent trees? NO

Does a prot pally have three talent trees? NO

Does a pally have three talent trees? YES. Those would be prot, holy and ret. The pally's specs. Pally is the CLASS. The class which has three talent trees.

Does a TROOPER have three talent trees? NO.

Does a commando have three talent trees? YES. Those would be combat medic, gunnery and assault specialist. Those are the commando's specs. Commando is the CLASS. The class which has three talent trees.

Does a vanguard have three talent trees? YES. Those would be shield specialist, tactics and assault specialist. Those are the vanguard's specs. Vanguard is the CLASS. The class which has three talent trees.

BTW, The two classes do not even share one single identical spec. Assault specialist for the commando is different than assault specialist for the vanguard.

People wanted Free to Play "Just because" - they got it

People wanted Modable gear at low levels "Just because" - they got it

People wanted speeders at lvl 10 instead of lvl 25 "Just because" - they got it

 

The thing to note is most games are designed with Casual players in mind. The tougher you make it, the less likely most casuals are to play these days. Hence the Cartel Market. You can BUY just about anything you want for your game, and you keep playing because now you have incentive.

 

In World of Warcraft, they asked for Dual Spec for years. And when they finally got it, it was 1000gold. They asked for it to be reduced. It became 10 gold. They asked for a level reduction, it went from 40 to 30 (or 50 to 40, been a LONG time ago). Same with mounts. Went from lvl 40 to lvl 20 and went from 1k gold to 7 gold.

 

People ask because they want choices. They love options that improve THEIR quality of life in the game. It would have zero impact on anyone else, but would make their game that much better. Same thing goes for player housing. I couldn't care less if we ever got it, but I am not going to boycott it simply because someone else wants a feature that I think is beyond stupid. Why have a feature in an Adventure game that encourages you to ignore the Adventure and stay inside decorating? The SIMS has that covered. But, if they want it, they should be allowed to ask for it.

 

People like options. They like to play multiple classes and would love to switch between Powertech and Merc without having to log out and log back in. If RIFT can do it, and do it well, there is no reason why this could not be a 350K cred / 2k CC unlock PER character (not Legacy). People claim it would damage the game, but I don't see having a basic choice available in other MMOs as being detrimental.

Tell me what other MMO's have this "basic feature". Rift is designed from the ground up to have no permanent class selection. This game has a PERMANENT class selection.

Now, tell me how many MMO's allow a player to undo a PERMANENT class selection. How many MMO's with a PERMANENT class selection allow you to change your class?

Does a ret pally have three talent trees? NO.

Does a holy pally have three talent trees? NO

Does a prot pally have three talent trees? NO

 

Does a pally have three talent trees? YES. Those would be prot, holy and ret. The pally's specs. Pally is the CLASS. The class which has three talent trees.

 

Does a TROOPER have three talent trees? NO.

 

Does a commando have three talent trees? YES. Those would be combat medic, gunnery and assault specialist. Those are the commando's specs. Commando is the CLASS. The class which has three talent trees.

 

Does a vanguard have three talent trees? YES. Those would be shield specialist, tactics and assault specialist. Those are the vanguard's specs. Vanguard is the CLASS. The class which has three talent trees.

 

BTW, The two classes do not even share one single identical spec. Assault specialist for the commando is different than assault specialist for the vanguard.

Paladin doesnt have a skill tree either until you pick protection retribution or holy. The number of skill trees each spec is irrelevant. Paladin no matter what spec will always be the paladin, trooper doesnt matter what your skill points are put in will always be the trooper.

Tell me what other MMO's have this "basic feature". Rift is designed from the ground up to have no permanent class selection. This game has a PERMANENT class selection.

 

Now, tell me how many MMO's allow a player to undo a PERMANENT class selection. How many MMO's with a PERMANENT class selection allow you to change your class?

Im pretty sure picking a warrior is permanent in that game, once you picked you cant change, same deal in this game. However you can change between the AC in that game.

Paladin doesnt have a skill tree either until you pick protection retribution or holy.

Please refrain from lying. Every pally has the same talent trees. Those talent trees are prot, ret and holy. A pally cannot allocate a talent point until he chooses a tree in which to allocate those points. The fact that he has not chosen a tree into which he wants to allocate points does not mean he does not have three talent trees.

This is unlike a trooper who has NO talent trees. It is, however, similar to a vanguard or a commando who have to choose a tree into which to put their talent points.

It takes more than your assertion, no matter how many times you make it, that something has been proved to prove something.

so the dev post linked over and over does not prove that even the devs say that the advanced class is your CLASS ????

Seriously if the people who made the game say that and you still do not get it then you will never have the ability to grasp even the simplest of facts.

Please refrain from lying. Every pally has the same talent trees. Those talent trees are prot, ret and holy. A pally cannot allocate a talent point until he chooses a tree in which to allocate those points. The fact that he has not chosen a tree into which he wants to allocate points does not mean he does not have three talent trees.

 

This is unlike a trooper who has NO talent trees. It is, however, similar to a vanguard or a commando who have to choose a tree into which to put their talent points.

Its not different. Paladin cant put points until he picks what he wants to be. Trooper cant put points until he picks what he wants to be.

so the dev post linked over and over does not prove that even the devs say that the advanced class is your CLASS ????

 

 

Seriously if the people who made the game say that and you still do not get it then you will never have the ability to grasp even the simplest of facts.

Fundamentally different classes, they didnt directly say they are different. The people who made this game have said a lot of things, and some things never happened, and some things they changed their mind on. Doesnt mean a whole lot.

Paladin doesnt have a skill tree either until you pick protection retribution or holy. The number of skill trees each spec is irrelevant.

dude you do not know wow so every time you try to make that comparison you flounder and weaken your incorrect view.

Paladins have 3 SPECS. Ret Holy and Prot. A Vanguard has 3 specs Shield Tactics and Assault. That is the correct analogy.

A paladin changes specs to go from a tank to a DPS just like a vanguard changes specs to go from a tank for a DPS.

You are trying to put a square peg into a round hole. Changing a vanguard into a commando is like changing a paladin into a hunter. The sad and pathetic thing is you simply are not smart enough to realize 2+2=4. Mo matter what saying something that is not true, regardless of how many times it is said it will never become true.

Tell me what other MMO's have this "basic feature". Rift is designed from the ground up to have no permanent class selection. This game has a PERMANENT class selection.

 

Now, tell me how many MMO's allow a player to undo a PERMANENT class selection. How many MMO's with a PERMANENT class selection allow you to change your class?

actually rift does have permanent classes, they simply have 8 talent trees each, but its still 4 classes. Also no matter what you can never turn a rogue in rift into a cleric, which is what he wants to do in SWTOR.

Im pretty sure picking a warrior is permanent in that game, once you picked you cant change, same deal in this game. However you can change between the AC in that game.

I have never played Rift. I was giving a few poster's the benefit of the doubt and taking them at their word.

I just checked the RIft website and it appears that you cannot even change class in that game, but you can change your spec. In that game, it appears they refer to specs as souls. That does not make them AC's. It makes them specs.

If you are going to argue that souls are classes, then that game was designed from the ground up to allow for class changes, while this one was not. Prior to launch, the design decision was made that resulted in your CLASS choice being PERMANENT and your class choice being made when you choose your advanced CLASS.

Fundamentally different classes, they didnt directly say they are different. The people who made this game have said a lot of things, and some things never happened, and some things they changed their mind on. Doesnt mean a whole lot.

Do you know what "fundamentally" means? Well i guess not going by your post. You might as well keep saying the sky is green, maybe one day the world will change its mind and start calling blue green.

I have never played Rift. I was giving a few poster's the benefit of the doubt and taking them at their word.

 

I just checked the RIft website and it appears that you cannot even change class in that game, but you can change your spec. In that game, it appears they refer to specs as souls. That does not make them AC's. It makes them specs.

 

If you are going to argue that souls are classes, then that game was designed from the ground up to allow for class changes, while this one was not. Prior to launch, the design decision was made that resulted in your CLASS choice being PERMANENT and your class choice being made when you choose your advanced CLASS.

Whats different between souls and AC's? Souls give new skill trees within the base class, same with AC, but they allow it. This game was designed to be able to do it too, they just didnt want to do it right away, which is why they said it will most likely happen now.

Do you know what "fundamentally" means? Well i guess not going by your post. You might as well keep saying the sky is green, maybe one day the world will change its mind and start calling blue green.

So, changing ACs result in the sky being green?

Its not different. Paladin cant put points until he picks what he wants to be. Trooper cant put points until he picks what he wants to be.

Pay attention. I'm going to type this reeeeeeaaaaallllllllllll slow so maybe even you can actually comprehend.

If a pally hits the hotkey to bring up his talent trees before he chooses a talent tree, what happens? He gets the talent tree screen with all three talent tree options available for him to choose. Now he does have to choose a single tree at first, true, but he does see all three talent trees and gets to choose any one of them. .

What happens when a TROOPER hits the hotkey to bring up his talent trees? NOTHING. That would be because he has NO talent trees. He has not yet chosen a CLASS.

What happens when a vanguard hits the hotkey to bring up his talent trees? He see all three talent trees. That's because he has chosen his CLASS, vanguard.

What happens when a commando hits the hotkey to bring up his talent trees? He sees all three talent trees. That's because he has actually chosen his CLASS, commando.

Whats different between souls and AC's? Souls give new skill trees within the base class, same with AC, but they allow it. This game was designed to be able to do it too, they just didnt want to do it right away, which is why they said it will most likely happen now.

No. The design decision was made before launch to make your CLASS choice PERMANENT and make that choice being made at level 10 when you pick your advanced CLASS.

They have stated that AC changes will "likely happen". I am more and more convinced that they only made that statement to appease the entitled, obtuse and self deluding masses who wish to change class, and refuse to acknowledge what is right in front of them.

Pay attention. I'm going to type this reeeeeeaaaaallllllllllll slow so maybe even you can actually comprehend.

 

If a pally hits the hotkey to bring up his talent trees before he chooses a talent tree, what happens? He gets the talent tree screen with all three talent tree options available for him to choose. Now he does have to choose a single tree at first, true, but he does see all three talent trees and gets to choose any one of them. .

 

What happens when a TROOPER hits the hotkey to bring up his talent trees? NOTHING. That would be because he has NO talent trees. He has not yet chosen a CLASS.

 

What happens when a vanguard hits the hotkey to bring up his talent trees? He see all three talent trees. That's because he has chosen his CLASS, vanguard.

 

What happens when a commando hits the hotkey to bring up his talent trees? He sees all three talent trees. That's because he has actually chosen his CLASS, commando.

Why would they give abilities to him then if he wasnt a class? If trooper wasnt a class, why do we still keep the trooper abilities after selecting our AC (spec)?

so the dev post linked over and over does not prove that even the devs say that the advanced class is your CLASS?

And your endless reference to this post somehow prevents the game from being changed?

Why would they give abilities to him then if he wasnt a class? If trooper wasnt a class, why do we still keep the trooper abilities after selecting our AC (spec)?

Pay close attention once again. I'm typing RRREEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL slowly again.

Trooper is your base class around which the story line is written. The story line that BW chose to use for two CLASSES, vanguard and commando. using a single story line for two classes allowed BW to save development time and money by not having to write 16 story lines, create another 20 companions and their quest chains, find at least another 36 voice actors (20 companions, 8 male voice actors for the males of each additional class and 8 female voice actors for the female versions of each additional class.). That number does not even include all the NPC's that would need to be voiced.

Just as all marines share some basic skills, so do all troopers. These would be your base skills, not your CLASS skills. That sharing of some basic skills does not make the marine pilot the same class as the marine sniper or allow them to change jobs, just as the shared base skills of a vanguard and commando do not make them the same class and allow them to switch classes.

Pay close attention once again. I'm typing RRREEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL slowly again.

 

Trooper is your base class around which the story line is written. The story line that BW chose to use for two CLASSES, vanguard and commando. using a single story line for two classes allowed BW to save development time and money by not having to write 16 story lines, create another 20 companions and their quest chains, find at least another 36 voice actors (20 companions, 8 male voice actors for the males of each additional class and 8 female voice actors for the female versions of each additional class.). That number does not even include all the NPC's that would need to be voiced.

 

Just as all marines share some basic skills, so do all troopers. These would be your base skills, not your CLASS skills. That sharing of some basic skills does not make the marine pilot the same class as the marine sniper or allow them to change jobs, just as the shared base skills of a vanguard and commando do not make them the same class and allow them to switch classes.

Ok im going answer very slowly.

A marine, is a marine, doesnt matter his role as a marine, hes still a marine. Have you ever heard a marine say "oh, i was a marine, but since i decided to be a sniper, im no longer a marine"? Because by your logic, they arent marines anymore, they are a sniper and a pilot, which would be a complete insult to say they arent marines just because they dont do the same thing as a marine.

Pay close attention once again. I'm typing RRREEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAALLLLLLLLLLLLL slowly again.

Hey, what's next from you,"Lalalalalalalalala I'm not listening you?"

We can tell the weakness of your argument by the lack of originality of your insults.

Ok im going answer very slowly.

A marine, is a marine, doesnt matter his role as a marine, hes still a marine. Have you ever heard a marine say "oh, i was a marine, but since i decided to be a sniper, im no longer a marine"? Because by your logic, they arent marines anymore, they are a sniper and a pilot, which would be a complete insult to say they arent marines just because they dont do the same thing as a marine.

Dude, you're way off base with that one.

Dude, you're way off base with that one.

Hes saying that since my trooper picked vanguard hes no longer a trooper. Then used marines trying to prove it.

So by his logic, if a marine specs into Piloting, hes a pilot, not a marine. How is that off base?