I think, you overreacted quite a bit, especially when "raging" over it. Esseles is a 2 man flashpoint really, and can be done with no healer at all and companions out. Running ahead of course is a impolite attitude towards the "real" tank, but qualifies not for "weird" under these circumstances - at least in my opinion.

i guess this healer won't do it in any 55 FP, when he is still gearing up.

I understand to a certain extent, no one is really a "healer" at lvl 10-12 no more so than someone is a "tank" at lvl 10-12. But, for example, last night on Black Talon, I'm playing my new Jugg Tank (complete Imperial Guard Legacy Kit from Section X with all Blue Armor, Mods, enhancements (those in green) etc.), I would say I'm more "tanky" than any other lvl 10-12 I've seen to date. A Marauder with barely 1000 hps on their toon insist on going to all the big bosses in the instance and wonders why he always dies... Fundamentals are fundamentals, dps goes small mob to big, tanks jump on the big boys and proceed to "wail and wait" till everyone else is done. The Op healer agreed with me and stopped trying to keep the other guy alive when he did this. You just can't keep up a dps guy that isn't playing right

I'll go ahead and share a short one about myself being stupid. We're all PUGing it in LI HM, all above level 50. I'm on my Watchman-specced Sentinel (this is relevant). We wiped once on Project Sav-Rak, and I had nothing to do with our victory over him. The fight started going wrong when the other DPS got launched off the platform on the first Smash. On the next Smash, I, in all my infinite wisdom, continue my DPS rotation whilst hugging Sav-Rak's nuts. Which includes my Force Leap with no minimum distance requirement. Which, of course, brings me out to the edge of Sav-Rak's character model as he smashes, launching me into the lava. We wipe, I joke and say, "Alright, this time with less stupid, myself included." We start the fight, things go fine, Sav-Rak starts to smash. I get in and the first damn thing I press is "Force Leap," continuing my habitual rotation. I realize my mistake and get launched into the lava again. I decide it's early in the fight and I can rocket boost my way back and make a heroic return. I reach the upper platform, rocket boost ahead... and fall straight into lava, not realizing the bridge goes out for the fight. The group ended up finishing the fight while I stood at the top of the map and watched. It was at that point I realized that no matter how well I played for the rest of the FP (which was quite well, as I was trying to compensate), they would forever think I was a moron.

I can sympathize. Pugging HM LI post 2.0. We had just wiped once because the healer wanted to click pillars.

Running back I stopped a little short (i.e. still on the bridge) and didn't realize it. Looked up to say something to my wife and sure enough the Guardian tank Force Leaps without a ready check. Turn back to the screen at the sound of battle music only to see my character falling to his ignominious death.

Wipe two, tank out. Time to requeue.

I can sympathize. Pugging HM LI post 2.0. We had just wiped once because the healer wanted to click pillars.

in HM LI, a DPS told once something like "It's too much damages when the boss enrages. We shouldn't attack him but flee away when he does that." We had to talk a bit for he doesn't experiment his suggestion.

Okay another one but this time the stupid guy in the story is unfortunately me.

 

So we do False Emperor hm. There are those big droids walking around people tend to push off the edges as you know. It's one of those. Sage uses his knockback, the droid stays right at the edge but doesn't fall down. I, as the clever Sentinel, see that the droid is alive and Force Leap.

 

While I'm in the air flying high like a hawk to my target and only a few miliseconds far away from it, the Guardian tank uses his Force Push. This time the droids falls off the edge. And I with it.

 

So the other players see a Sentinel "successfully" Force Leap'ing into oblivion.

 

One of them asks "How did you do that?!?". I reply "Don't ask" and continue.

This made my day. Thank you for sharing it lol

This was in LI hm way back when, and was playing on my sawbones. We phase in and realize that one of the DPS was a sage in a complete set of recruit gear. The sage says that she's done it before though and the other DPS is experienced and over geared so we head out and down the mini boss and droid with no problems.

Then we get to Sav Rak. Everyone reconfirms that they know the fight and we pull. Nobody gets booted off the edge but when he jumps up onto the pillars instead of going to her console the sage casts salvation in the middle and is healing. One of our other group mates tells them to grab the console, but they don't move so I start moving towards it instead. Luckly he drops down just as I'm about to click, but the sage's resources are now shot.

Sage is DPSing but has little to no resource, so when he jumps up again I can't leave the middle to click the console since I kind of doubted their ability to keep us alive through the spit with recruit gear, no force and what I'm now assuming is a limited understanding of the fights. We enrage and all die a horrible screaming death.

The Tank and DPS remind her to use the console, and I ask her what spec she is since I saw her casting salvation. She says "I'm off heals. This guy hits really hard so you need two healers. "

O__________o

I tell her to click the console and we'll be fine with one. She does so heroically, and the other DPS pulls the weight of a seer specced DPS sage in recruit gear like a boss for the rest of the FP.

Pugging LI used to be so exciting. /nostalgicsigh

For a change in pace I wanted to thank two people when starting out. For all the crappy people out there, there are some gem players.

I'm on Red Eclipse, Alderaan, with a sage healer, doing the heroic where you defend the tower.

There are three others for the +4, one guy leaves after he gets wiped first time. I pull out Qyzen to work as the tank. We win the the fight after a quite brutal fight. However for some reason my character doesnt complete the mission?? The Sage DPS waits up and notices I havent completed, and says no problem wait a second. I said it didnt matter I can do later.

A minute later he returns with a 53 shadow, wipes the floor with the mission (obviously), and I pick up the mission completion. I will be certain now to return this favour at some point.

Playing the Alderaan Droid mission (the big spinny one with grapple), someone calls it out, and suggest two manning it. We run up with our companions, I am healing the player (sentinel) and Qyzen. Fine up to the final boss and I just cant keep enough heals going with the grapple, so we lose Qyzen. With much breaking, heals, bubbles, etc, we finally beat the boss. at the end the player is really nice and pleasant, thanks a lot, and adds.

Fortunately not all randoms are numb nut a***holes

For a change in pace I wanted to thank two people when starting out. For all the crappy people out there, there are some gem players.

 

I'm on Red Eclipse, Alderaan, with a sage healer, doing the heroic where you defend the tower.

 

There are three others for the +4, one guy leaves after he gets wiped first time. I pull out Qyzen to work as the tank. We win the the fight after a quite brutal fight. However for some reason my character doesnt complete the mission?? The Sage DPS waits up and notices I havent completed, and says no problem wait a second. I said it didnt matter I can do later.

 

A minute later he returns with a 53 shadow, wipes the floor with the mission (obviously), and I pick up the mission completion. I will be certain now to return this favour at some point.

 

Playing the Alderaan Droid mission (the big spinny one with grapple), someone calls it out, and suggest two manning it. We run up with our companions, I am healing the player (sentinel) and Qyzen. Fine up to the final boss and I just cant keep enough heals going with the grapple, so we lose Qyzen. With much breaking, heals, bubbles, etc, we finally beat the boss. at the end the player is really nice and pleasant, thanks a lot, and adds.

 

Fortunately not all randoms are numb nut a***holes

Well, sometimes I do low level flashpoints on my 55 commando. I just like helping, but I've seen some (while levelling) pretty retarded players... Vanguards using strength so that their stockstrike hits harder, commandoes using cunning mods and so on and so forth...

A lovely story (Yet no where near uncommon ) of me being a total numptie.

I was doing a Cadamimu HM yesterday on my Sage healer with a tank who, although he would not admit it, was probably doing it for the first time. No big deal, I had a guildie sent with me and we are both incredibly overgeared so we smashed through it. We got to the final boss and the tank refused to move out of the rocket fire (Despite my attempts to rescue him) and promptly died. At this point I began tanking, again, no big deal, I healed myself throughout it with ease... at first. After the next move from the rocket fire I started getting a little to caught up in my new found tanking skills and forgot to heal myself and died luckily the pug dps, a scoundrel, did some off heals through the rest and the remaining 2 guys killed him

However for some reason my character doesnt complete the mission??

Yeah, that's a rare bug. I got it twice as well, once with a my Gunslinger and once with my Sage.

I believe that this depends on in who's quest instance you are.

Okay another one but this time the stupid guy in the story is unfortunately me.

 

So we do False Emperor hm. There are those big droids walking around people tend to push off the edges as you know. It's one of those. Sage uses his knockback, the droid stays right at the edge but doesn't fall down. I, as the clever Sentinel, see that the droid is alive and Force Leap.

 

While I'm in the air flying high like a hawk to my target and only a few miliseconds far away from it, the Guardian tank uses his Force Push. This time the droids falls off the edge. And I with it.

 

So the other players see a Sentinel "successfully" Force Leap'ing into oblivion.

 

One of them asks "How did you do that?!?". I reply "Don't ask" and continue.

LMFAO I actually did this last night although I was the healer that pushed the droid off just as the sent leaped. This is the second time I have seen this happen and I've probably only run that FP 6 or 7 times

While I'm in the air flying high like a hawk to my target and only a few miliseconds far away from it, the Guardian tank uses his Force Push. This time the droids falls off the edge. And I with it.

 

So the other players see a Sentinel "successfully" Force Leap'ing into oblivion.

 

One of them asks "How did you do that?!?". I reply "Don't ask" and continue.

In the German-language sub-forums, someone experienced something similar - on Cademimu :

Als begeisterter Leser dieses Artikels möchte ich euch an ein Erlebnis teilhaben lassen was mir so in meiner ganzen Swtor zeit noch nicht untergekommen ist was mir aber sooooo gut getan hat wie eine Deluxe Massage mit Happy end im Sauerlandstern:)

 

Ort : Cademinu

Darsteller : 2 Maros. 1 Söldnerheal und mein kleiner Tamalain als Tank

 

Die 2 Marros und der Heiler gehörten zu einer Gilde deren Name schon so Böse ist das er selbst Tim Curry als Pennywise vor Angst erstarren lässt.

 

Das ganze Vorgeplänkel lasse ich weg stellt euch einfach vor wie 2 Maros auf Crack spielen würden und multipliziert das mit 10:)

 

Nun als Assel hat man ja im unteren Bereich den Luxus, dass die Aggro von Gegnergrp recht einfach zu halten ist selbst dann wenn du 2 Hupfdolen Marke Zwillingstaschenlampe in der Grp hast. So ging es mehr schlecht als Recht bis zu dem Punkt wo die Verhörsonde bei dem Fahrstuhl ist der gaaaaanz tief runter fährt. Wie wir alle wissen können wir diese Sonde ja wunderbar runter schubsen und dieses hat auch wunderbar geklappt und ich schaue schon der Sonde auf den Weg nach unten nach, da sehe ich 4 Leuchtstäbe an mir vorbei springen geradewegs der Sonde in den Fahrstuhlschacht hinterher. Und ich dachte mir in diesem Augenblick ja es gibt einen Gott und der hat ein Herz für Tanks:)

 

lg

Venthalan

you know, for the many times I've done Candemimu on either difficulty, i have JUST found out the other night about not standing by the shuttles with a bot boss. was healing on one of my alts, and got immediately imprisoned. luckily the rest of the group was good and he died quickly anyways, but I didn't even realize how noobishly I messed up until later. I guess I was just lucky in that I somehow managed not to stand in a wrong spot until that run

do'h

that said - an upside of seeing players being hilariously incompetent, especially tanks is as bad as it sounds - making me feel a little better about my own abilities.

P.S...I ummm have lept off edges as well on a few occasions on both jugg AND sentinel

I have noticed a disturbing trend since the raising of the level limit to 55 where "overgeared" folks find no need to use any sort of tactics at all. It is as if there is a special collection reward for zerging. My main is a well equipped rDPS, so I have "stolen" a few agroes in my day (sorry tank guild), but I also have endgame equipped tank and heals. When I tank, I watch the healer for unusual furry growths (agro pulls) and I wait for their force/health bars to recover after a fight (I know, novel idea, but he continues to heal me when I do that). The new trend is for the DPS to think this is taking too long and leap onto the next mob boss. While crowd control may seam to take longer, I have found in speed runs with my guild that strategic moves including CCs can seriously shorten fight and recovery times.

Last night, I am trying to run a heroic with a radom selection of folks. Since reaching level 55 shortens folks attention span, I simply ask "Does anyone have a CC?" A healer says yes, no reply form the other two, who promptly leap into the fight. In the ensuing furball we all survive, but the healer has lost over half his force bar. Ok, second try, I ask " Any other tanks here?" Both leap into the next fight, one replies DPS, the other directs profanity at me as I agro one gold and pull a previously stunned second gold off of the healer (DPS hit him twice and moved on). Dispite my full 69s, the profane DPS calls me a noob amongst other things and starts the next fight. I type "bye", /ignore the profane DPS, and send a private tell to the healer saying I have reached my limit, but it was not his fault.

Standing outside the instance and having my vocabulary return to words with more than four letters, I see a forelorne level 55 DPS spamming for help to run the same heroic. I send a tell saying I will help him if he uses tactics. He replies "What are tactics?" I log for a while to watch the season ending episode of "Game of Thrones".

After the show, I log into my toons one more time to send off my lazy companions. When I log into my tank, again at the heroic entrance, another forelorne DPS is building a heroic group. I accept his invite and ask in group chat "Does anyone have a CC?" The group lead replies "Dude, we are level 55, we don't need CCs" I wish them Good Luck and log for the night.

A guildie wants to get some gear for his shadow and I join him for a FP via the group finder. Was not in a mood to take my BIS 72 tank so I took my almost BIS 72 sentinel. We get a miraculous pop in 10 minutes and we are in Athiss. The FP starts with me slicing the elevator and the vanguard tank pulling all the mobs close to the elevator getting us killed. He says and I quote 'i have never used the elevator'. I replied 'not a problem it happens'.

We clear first boss and we get outside the tomb. He pulls a bunch of mobs i leap to kill the mobs but he misses the elite that is killing the healer, so I leap to the elite and halfway through my masterstrike he pulls the elite off me. Not having leap, i go back slowly as he harpooned over 20m. We get to the next pair of packs, same thing, he ignores the elite sorcs and seeing they attack the healer, again, I leap to one on the rocks. What does he do? He pulls it again from me. We kill some more trash and when he pulls mobs away from me the 6th time and I say 'i wish i were tanking and you were DPS-ing so I can pull all the mobs off you '. He replies : 'that is what you get for not attacking the mobs I pull. The more you attack other mobs, the more I pull them'. I reply in a friendly manner, 'if you are going to pull the whole pack, do so, don't pull three people and get the healer almost killed, when i see he is in trouble i leap to kill the mob'. He continues 'i am the boss, i do what i want, i am the tank'. I say, yeah you are 'a tank, not THE tank, you really need to learn to pull a room and how to hold aggro on all the mobs not just on the little ones while the elite kills your healer. Also, kiting a mob when you have two melee dps shows how awesome you are as a tank.

I agree we need to respect roles in a flashpoint and let the tank pull but when you see such incompetence and you intervene some flexibility is needed. Also, is there some vanguard thing where you tank a boss and you kite him so I, the sentinel, has to run all the time to do damage?

Also, is there some vanguard thing where you tank a boss and you kite him so I, the sentinel, has to run all the time to do damage?

Playing a Vanguard Tank, I've never seen the interest to kite anything, especially not a boss. Vanguard is melee too; they have a few ranged attack, but either they can't be cast while running either they don't do significant damage. On pack, cast AOE to hit the most and follow the kill order. If this tank has no care of his healer, maybe he's used to kite to survive by his own, who knows.

On Athis, I might see why someone could do that on the last boss, even if it's a wrong tactic. The boss drops AOE under the tank. Also DPS often return too early on the boss when being chased by the floating flames. The tank ends having an AOE, the boss and 6 flames heading toward him in the same time. Time to run away!

...

On Athis, I might see why someone could do that on the last boss, even if it's a wrong tactic. The boss drops AOE under the tank. Also DPS often return too early on the boss when being chased by the floating flames. The tank ends having an AOE, the boss and 6 flames heading toward him in the same time. Time to run away!

P.S: The "flames" only hurt the player that has the debuff. Noone else has to worry about the flames. If you are tanking the boss, do not have the debuff and the flames head your way, you don't have to move.

P.S: The "flames" only hurt the player that has the debuff. Noone else has to worry about the flames. If you are tanking the boss, do not have the debuff and the flames head your way, you don't have to move.

Yep. I had a tank/healer combo insist *repeatedly* that the flames did AoE damage, even though I have healed that dozens of times and knew they were wrong. I tried to correct them, figured they were thinking of the cleansable dot, but they kept insisting.

So I insisted on dancing in the flames as much as possible as they moved around the room.

I don't usually PUG the 55 GF as i tend to prefer running with guildies in a pre-made but one instance which is the only that comes to mind recently is that myself, who is a Guardian tank and one guildie DPS shadow ended up just queing for it and we get Mandolorian raiders.

Things seemed fine except as the FP progressed and we got through bosses. The healer (Who was level 55 with decent gear 63-69 i didnt look to closley) ONLY used AoE heals. there was no instances wherein i noticed him spot healing me or anything and there was no healing except for his big AoE. It was pretty funny as I died about 6 times in the entire FP and was constantly spamming my defensives.

We get to the Boss the mandolrian guy and on our first attempt we wipe, The DPS pug says to me "Hit the turrets" and i say "Well yeah i am hitting the turrets as well as making sure the boss and said turrets don't also hit any of y'all".

Yep. I had a tank/healer combo insist *repeatedly* that the flames did AoE damage, even though I have healed that dozens of times and knew they were wrong. I tried to correct them, figured they were thinking of the cleansable dot, but they kept insisting.

 

So I insisted on dancing in the flames as much as possible as they moved around the room.

I've been killed by the flames after they killed their original target before. Maybe they had a similar situation and mistakenly thought it was just aoe damage? I dunno. (Honestly, when that happened to me, it was so fast that I never even saw if I got the debuff. I was just trying to get los for a combat rez right when the healer went down, and boom.)

Things seemed fine except as the FP progressed and we got through bosses. The healer (Who was level 55 with decent gear 63-69 i didnt look to closley) ONLY used AoE heals. there was no instances wherein i noticed him spot healing me or anything and there was no healing except for his big AoE. It was pretty funny as I died about 6 times in the entire FP and was constantly spamming my defensives.

I've seen this too, and it really confuses me. Especially when you see someone toss down a Salvation, start DPSing, and then if someone dies they apologize and say they had no power. (At that point we usually just politely ask them to not DPS and things go a bit better... usually.) On the other side of that coin, I've got a Sage healer and I use my Salvation carefully; I use it when it's needed but I don't toss it out there on CD like some seem to do. I've had people tell me I need to use it "all the time" -- on easy runs where there were no deaths and usually little to no party damage, so I only needed to heal the tank 95% of the time. Baffled. It IS a nice skill and all, but there are times when you just don't need it so much.

I pug a Mando raiders with a guildie, he was healer I was DPS, we get in the FP and see the tank is 69s + augmented. We were like this should be easy....yea ok..after each dying a few times to the boarding party, we sort of realized he wasn't area taunting at all after adds kept mugging my guildie. Anyway after we've wiped a couple times we try to explain the fight and he was absolutely insistent that he only needed to tank 1 of the 4 and it was Erzaline.

So after 1 more wipe we said peace and put him on ignore.

I pug a Mando raiders with a guildie, he was healer I was DPS, we get in the FP and see the tank is 69s + augmented. We were like this should be easy....yea ok..after each dying a few times to the boarding party, we sort of realized he wasn't area taunting at all after adds kept mugging my guildie. Anyway after we've wiped a couple times we try to explain the fight and he was absolutely insistent that he only needed to tank 1 of the 4 and it was Erzaline.

 

So after 1 more wipe we said peace and put him on ignore.

I've bolded and color coded the main points I am curious about. I'm assuming you mean the 4 "Bosses" the maurader BH agent and sorc?

I've never had any issues with that as I AoE taunt initially Saber reflect and periodically tab target to see if anybody has aggro off of me and if they do i go to them wack them a few times and it's back on me. How these bosses are difficult is beyond me. Unless the dps know nothing of the kill order and herp derp thier way along.

EDIT and I suppose based on your post the Tank knows nothing and herp derps his way along LOLLOL

I've had people tell me I need to use it "all the time" -- on easy runs where there were no deaths and usually little to no party damage, so I only needed to heal the tank 95% of the time. Baffled. It IS a nice skill and all, but there are times when you just don't need it so much.

I once pugged into a TfB and joined the organizing guild's voice chat. On Kephess, the main tank instructed the sage healer in the group put down a salvation that the tank could leap into at the very start. Now, I have a sage healer that I know how to play pretty well...so I found this to be just about the dumbest thing you could ask a sage to do. Spend 91 force to heal a single target for maybe 3-4k between the time the pull happens and salvation expires? Were they deliberately trying to run the sage out of force in this fight??? So I voiced my objection, saying sages should focus on bubble and single target healing at the start...the tank gave some mealy-mouthed "well it's another HoT". I whispered the sage and told him his tank didn't have a clue and he should ignore any further direction from that idiot.